Kawasaki Ninja 250

[NinjaGladiator]

PeaceBlondie, you've forgotten one important aspect of a 250, they are for young (17-21) untrained riders (generally) and that is the largest market segment in most countries for motorbikes, you know how it goes after that, sports cars, family, mortgage. Therefore the older guys buying the big bikes are fewer in numbers. But why do people have to sound off all matcho, there are umpteen reasons to buy a small bike, they're economical, the top speed is fast enough when you're up against unlicenced/untrained,15yr olds coming up the wrong side of the carriage-way. They'll still beat the fastest harley (top-end). Or like me your joints have been pounded by commuting 50 miles a day, rain and snow on sports bikes, that you can no longer adopt the position or stick your neck out at 150+mph. "Americans do not ride teensy little bikes". Stop trying to sound all macho guys, it's only cos your not content with the size of your manhood.

By-the-way, for those that don't mind driving teensy little bikes, Kawasaki is now taking orders, the price is 139,990. Mine is suppose to arrive 25/8

[Bard]

Well, all us CBR 150R owners are watching this it seems. But will it be enough to tempt us away?

I suppose that for owners of older CBR 150Rs, it will be. Us with newer models will probably mull it over.

Using myself as an example; I bought mine new approximately 2 1/4 years ago. Still have warranty until Jan. 09. And seeing how, if I recall correctly, PeaceBlondie's bike has been running since 03 I still have at least a couple more years out of it (and most likely more since I don't ride it as much as he does).

Running the numbers alone it's hard to justify. A 140K Baht bike (assuming that VAT and everything is included in the quoted price) on top of the one I have now is a big investment. That means I'd have a total of over 200k in bikes. Now granted, I can't really justify having two 'sports' bikes, even if ones a back up because they ARE a pain in the arse for getting groceries and other mundane stuff. So even if I were able to get 30K Baht for selling my CBR 150R, I'm still 170K in the hole.

Now, if you look at the performance numbers it gets interesting. The Ninja puts out 38 BHP (but curiously only delivers 28ish to the rear wheel). The CBR only has 17 (wether that's BHP or rear wheel, I don't know, but I'm going to assume it's BHP). So horsepower per cc, the Ninja has 0.152 and the CBR has 0.11. Quite a big difference. Horsepower per kilo, the Ninja has 0.25 and the CBR has 0.17. Even worst. The fun factor is definitely way down on the CBR 150R when you start looking at it from that point.

Now comes the interesting part; upgrading. The general talk is that simply opening up the breathing on a CBR 150R will take you up in the 22-23 HP range. That's a less than 8k Baht upgrade. It also takes your numbers into a range that's much closer to the Ninja's. Your per cc goes up to 0.147 (Ninja's is 0.152) and per kilo to .22 (Ninja's is 0.25). Then there's the oversize kits. I'm not going to guess how much they're going to get you, but I've heard prices for ~20K Baht being thrown around.

Add in that there are really no performance gains to be had with the admittedly excellent Kawasaki engine, you can quickly approach the same performance per whatever floats your boat. Granted, the Kawasaki will win when you factor in the riders weight.

So basically, I can spend spend some 30K Baht and get the same performance. However, this will involve spending time tearing down the bike, adding in the parts, losing warranty and the associated risks with a motor that's running 'hotter' than stock.

But I'd save 110K baht.

Someone help me!!!!

Hi,

The Thai/Euro version with Injection, not like the US Carb version, of Ninja 250R has 33 BHP on the wheel. A full exhaust system (450$) give 5 Hp more on the backwheel alone, you mod the ECU and new intake and you get even more. In stock version depending on your weight it does 0 - 100 Km/h in 5.7 second if your light (145 Pounds) to 7 second for a heavy guy like me (200 Pounds). Top speed is close to 180 Km/h, and it is a real nice ride. I have driven the Honda and it is not comparable at all, if you mod it enough it can move but still the stock Ninja will outrun it anytime. Speed is not really what you are after on these light bikes anyway, then you go for a suicide machine 600++. Still the Ninja will outrun almost any car in acceleration on the roads in Thailand.

The Ninja have been driven on long distances on highways, twisted roads etc. and it can do all fine, I even read one guy crossing USA on one. I am 6 foot 200 pounds and it is a great ride for commuting, highway, dense traffic and and I even used my old model for weekend trips. I loved it, much more than I loved my CBR600 which was a bummer in dense traffic due to the fact the 250 was so easy to handle. I now live in Thailand and I already ordered a green one which I will get 9. September.

The real issue with modding a 150 to 23 hp (probably 18 - 20 hp on the wheel) is this, you risk to decrease engine life, you risk dependability issues (breakdowns) and lastly it reduces the second hand value plus could void any warranty on the bike. I would ride the 150 if the money is an issue. And buy a Ninja when it's time to change, or if I felt the 150 did not do it for me and I could afford it just sell it and buy the Ninja. After I break mine in your welcome to try it to see for yourself if you would feel it is the money worth. That is the best way to try out one and compare it with what you got, and evaluate if the entire ride is worth the upgrade. Because it is not HP alone which makes it fun, it's the handeling, breaking and yes how it looks and feels. That you can do a WOT to 14000 rpm adds the funfactor when you feel for it. My old one was the most fun motorbike I ever had, so I can't wait to get my hands on my new one

[dave_boo]

Well, all us CBR 150R owners are watching this it seems. But will it be enough to tempt us away?

I suppose that for owners of older CBR 150Rs, it will be. Us with newer models will probably mull it over.

Using myself as an example; I bought mine new approximately 2 1/4 years ago. Still have warranty until Jan. 09. And seeing how, if I recall correctly, PeaceBlondie's bike has been running since 03 I still have at least a couple more years out of it (and most likely more since I don't ride it as much as he does).

Running the numbers alone it's hard to justify. A 140K Baht bike (assuming that VAT and everything is included in the quoted price) on top of the one I have now is a big investment. That means I'd have a total of over 200k in bikes. Now granted, I can't really justify having two 'sports' bikes, even if ones a back up because they ARE a pain in the arse for getting groceries and other mundane stuff. So even if I were able to get 30K Baht for selling my CBR 150R, I'm still 170K in the hole.

Now, if you look at the performance numbers it gets interesting. The Ninja puts out 38 BHP (but curiously only delivers 28ish to the rear wheel). The CBR only has 17 (wether that's BHP or rear wheel, I don't know, but I'm going to assume it's BHP). So horsepower per cc, the Ninja has 0.152 and the CBR has 0.11. Quite a big difference. Horsepower per kilo, the Ninja has 0.25 and the CBR has 0.17. Even worst. The fun factor is definitely way down on the CBR 150R when you start looking at it from that point.

Now comes the interesting part; upgrading. The general talk is that simply opening up the breathing on a CBR 150R will take you up in the 22-23 HP range. That's a less than 8k Baht upgrade. It also takes your numbers into a range that's much closer to the Ninja's. Your per cc goes up to 0.147 (Ninja's is 0.152) and per kilo to .22 (Ninja's is 0.25). Then there's the oversize kits. I'm not going to guess how much they're going to get you, but I've heard prices for ~20K Baht being thrown around.

Add in that there are really no performance gains to be had with the admittedly excellent Kawasaki engine, you can quickly approach the same performance per whatever floats your boat. Granted, the Kawasaki will win when you factor in the riders weight.

So basically, I can spend spend some 30K Baht and get the same performance. However, this will involve spending time tearing down the bike, adding in the parts, losing warranty and the associated risks with a motor that's running 'hotter' than stock.

But I'd save 110K baht.

Someone help me!!!!

Hi,

The Thai/Euro version with Injection, not like the US Carb version, of Ninja 250R has 33 BHP on the wheel. A full exhaust system (450$) give 5 Hp more on the backwheel alone, you mod the ECU and new intake and you get even more. In stock version depending on your weight it does 0 - 100 Km/h in 5.7 second if your light (145 Pounds) to 7 second for a heavy guy like me (200 Pounds). Top speed is close to 180 Km/h, and it is a real nice ride. I have driven the Honda and it is not comparable at all, if you mod it enough it can move but still the stock Ninja will outrun it anytime. Speed is not really what you are after on these light bikes anyway, then you go for a suicide machine 600++. Still the Ninja will outrun almost any car in acceleration on the roads in Thailand.

That seems like a huge increase just by adding Fuel Injection. Did they make the torque suffer to get there? Everything I've read is that for the new '08 Ninja they had slightly redesigned the engine to offer more torque in the midrange; is the Euro-spec not following the same mentality? None the less I've seen HP claims for the 250 all over the spectrum. Motorcycle News has it at 33 (I'm assuming BHP, and that would fit a drive loss of 15% to get to 28 Rear Wheel), Wikipedia has it at 36 BHP/26 RW (a whopping 28% loss), Kawasaki's website lists lb-ft only (but if my rusty skills allow me to remember correctly HP=(RPMxT)/5252 or 29 HP at 9500 RPM), etc. Also of note is the fact that Ninja 250 club states that you will NOT get more than high 30 rear wheel out of it. I also found a youtube clip with a 140 lb rider taking it to 60 in approximately 7 seconds; they only hit some 100 MPH (approximately 160 KPH) however that is faster than what I can currently get to on my bike. The following Dyno chart has a Yoshi full system only offering 2.79 HP more. Are there any exhaust that can exceed that?

The Ninja have been driven on long distances on highways, twisted roads etc. and it can do all fine, I even read one guy crossing USA on one. I am 6 foot 200 pounds and it is a great ride for commuting, highway, dense traffic and and I even used my old model for weekend trips. I loved it, much more than I loved my CBR600 which was a bummer in dense traffic due to the fact the 250 was so easy to handle. I now live in Thailand and I already ordered a green one which I will get 9. September.

And that's the exact reason I was thinking about the Ninja. My house is out in the country; it would be used for 'high' speed travel of longerish distance. However, if you haven't figured it out by now; I need to justify to myself why I should get it over my current CBR 150R.

The real issue with modding a 150 to 23 hp (probably 18 - 20 hp on the wheel) is this, you risk to decrease engine life, you risk dependability issues (breakdowns) and lastly it reduces the second hand value plus could void any warranty on the bike. I would ride the 150 if the money is an issue. And buy a Ninja when it's time to change, or if I felt the 150 did not do it for me and I could afford it just sell it and buy the Ninja. After I break mine in your welcome to try it to see for yourself if you would feel it is the money worth. That is the best way to try out one and compare it with what you got, and evaluate if the entire ride is worth the upgrade. Because it is not HP alone which makes it fun, it's the handeling, breaking and yes how it looks and feels. That you can do a WOT to 14000 rpm adds the funfactor when you feel for it. My old one was the most fun motorbike I ever had, so I can't wait to get my hands on my new one

[jackcorbett]

I figure this. Honda's engineers are a lot smarter than I am. So I wouldn't even think of modifying the engine of a CBR 150 or for that matter an Airblade, Yamaha Nouvo, etc.

I once had a 1992 Mazda Miata with a 1600 cc. engine developing 116 horsepower. So, thinking I needed more performance, I had a Sebring supercharger put on it, over sized wheels and tires to take advantage of the huge increase in horsepower, a header, performance after market exhaust and air intake believed to add still an extra 5 horsepower. When I got done with all that the little 1600 c.c. Mazda engine performed like a V-8. I'd say acceleration went from about 9.3 seconds zero to sixty to around 6.5 to 7 seconds. Top speed went from 118 miles an hour to 139 miles an hour and at this point a rev limiter cut in at around 7200 rpms. THe little car was still accelerating when all of a sudden that rev limiter starved the engine for fuel. And to top it all off, fuel economy didn't suffer one iota and torque had increased so significantly that I now could loaf driving around town in 5th gear at around 30 miles an hour. Man, I had the bomb now. I was so smart. I had even outdone Mazda.

Then I blew the first engine at 139 miles an hour. A new engine cost me more than $2000. So I decided to never take the car above 115 miles an hour. That brought my rpms down from over 7200 to around 6000. I had figured Mazda might have designed this car to hit 7200 to 7500 rpms at peak acceleration for several seconds but not for sustained periods of time. The non supercharged engine simply did not have the power to pull over 6000 rpms in fifth gear. The supercharged engine might have pulled 8000 and God knows how fast that car would have been without that rev limiter on it. Anyway, I blew the 2nd engine and was once again out over 2000 dollars. So now on my third engine, it finally wound up blowing also. At the dealership....(they really loved me at it's service department as the boys got to try all kinds of interesting things out on my car) the last diagnosis was that the engine was burning lean due to the supercharger changing the air fuel mixture.

I wound up taking the supercharger off and after that the car was reliable again That is until at 150,000 miles the transmission gave out. Now, the Mazda Miata sportscar has a record of being the most reliable car in the entire Mazda lineup. Miata's very rarely blow a transmission. i figure mine did only because I took a four cylinder engine off and mounted a V-8 instead and that little transmission had never been designed to handle the huge increase in torque of a V-8. (the supercharger did not give me 4 extra cylinders, only the performance).

So, not wanting to buy a new transmission for a 150,000 mile car I sold my Miata and bought a new one, a gorgeous special edition 2002 model with 144 horsepower and a six speed overdrive transmission. Not as fast as the old model with supercharger in place at a zero to sixty time of probably 7.9 seconds it still dramatically outperformed the 9.3 stock times of the old car. I never opened this car up and I think with that six speed overdrive gear this car would have lasted practically forever. It did everything well even delivering 1000 mile cross country miles in a single day at 33 miles per gallon.

Having never driven either the CBR 150 or the Ninja 250, I would think either bike does a splendid job at what it's designed to do, as is. If you think you want more power than the CBR, then the Ninja's the thing. I've probably read at least five reviews on the Ninja 250 R and the consensus of opinion is that the Ninja is really outstanding easily offering the best performance out of all the 250's, that it outhandles larger displacement bikes, is more fun to ride, offers between 50 and 60 miles per gallon, offers great fuel range, will hit something like 100 miles an hour, accelerates briskly enough to handle the traffic on any highway provided one is willing to downshift pretty often, is a terrific looker, and that it is pretty inexpensive. But one of the reviews mentions several small weaknesses. One of them is a certain hiccuping in the carburated American version in certain situations such as driving behind a cavalcade of cars at say around 30 miles an hour when suddenly a hole opens up in that line and one needs to get on the gas, now. There is a momentary problem and hesitation with the fuel delivery in such situations. That review mentions that the European fuel injected version of the 250 R would not have this problem. I personally feel there would be no horsepower gain or very little with the more expensive European fuel injected version (which will be offered in Thailand) over the carburated offering sold in the states.

[dave_boo]

I figure this. Honda's engineers are a lot smarter than I am. So I wouldn't even think of modifying the engine of a CBR 150 or for that matter an Airblade, Yamaha Nouvo, etc.

There a lots of people much smarter than I also, just don't tell my id that. However, some of those smarter people have decided that rather than tackling ocean going vehicles, which pollute more than traffic vehicles, we'd save the enviroment. Hence we have enviromental controls on our vehicles that limit the power to quite a degree. Remove those restrictions and wam! more power.

I once had a 1992 Mazda Miata with a 1600 cc. engine developing 116 horsepower. So, thinking I needed more performance, I had a Sebring supercharger put on it, over sized wheels and tires to take advantage of the huge increase in horsepower, a header, performance after market exhaust and air intake believed to add still an extra 5 horsepower. When I got done with all that the little 1600 c.c. Mazda engine performed like a V-8. I'd say acceleration went from about 9.3 seconds zero to sixty to around 6.5 to 7 seconds. Top speed went from 118 miles an hour to 139 miles an hour and at this point a rev limiter cut in at around 7200 rpms. THe little car was still accelerating when all of a sudden that rev limiter starved the engine for fuel. And to top it all off, fuel economy didn't suffer one iota and torque had increased so significantly that I now could loaf driving around town in 5th gear at around 30 miles an hour. Man, I had the bomb now. I was so smart. I had even outdone Mazda.

Then I blew the first engine at 139 miles an hour. A new engine cost me more than $2000. So I decided to never take the car above 115 miles an hour. That brought my rpms down from over 7200 to around 6000. I had figured Mazda might have designed this car to hit 7200 to 7500 rpms at peak acceleration for several seconds but not for sustained periods of time. The non supercharged engine simply did not have the power to pull over 6000 rpms in fifth gear. The supercharged engine might have pulled 8000 and God knows how fast that car would have been without that rev limiter on it. Anyway, I blew the 2nd engine and was once again out over 2000 dollars. So now on my third engine, it finally wound up blowing also. At the dealership....(they really loved me at it's service department as the boys got to try all kinds of interesting things out on my car) the last diagnosis was that the engine was burning lean due to the supercharger changing the air fuel mixture.

It sure sounds like the boys trying all kinds of interesting things out on your car forgot that an engine is just a fancy air/fuel pump. Had they corrected that issue from the get go, I wonder what types of problems you would have had. But then again, not every engine is built like a Chevy small block or a Toyota 2j-z! Perhaps Mazada trimmed enough from here and there to keep the engine lighter and cheaper that they engineered in ONLY the power that it was rated for--kinda like BMWs are known for.

I wound up taking the supercharger off and after that the car was reliable again That is until at 150,000 miles the transmission gave out. Now, the Mazda Miata sportscar has a record of being the most reliable car in the entire Mazda lineup. Miata's very rarely blow a transmission. i figure mine did only because I took a four cylinder engine off and mounted a V-8 instead and that little transmission had never been designed to handle the huge increase in torque of a V-8. (the supercharger did not give me 4 extra cylinders, only the performance).

So, not wanting to buy a new transmission for a 150,000 mile car I sold my Miata and bought a new one, a gorgeous special edition 2002 model with 144 horsepower and a six speed overdrive transmission. Not as fast as the old model with supercharger in place at a zero to sixty time of probably 7.9 seconds it still dramatically outperformed the 9.3 stock times of the old car. I never opened this car up and I think with that six speed overdrive gear this car would have lasted practically forever. It did everything well even delivering 1000 mile cross country miles in a single day at 33 miles per gallon.

Having never driven either the CBR 150 or the Ninja 250, I would think either bike does a splendid job at what it's designed to do, as is. If you think you want more power than the CBR, then the Ninja's the thing. I've probably read at least five reviews on the Ninja 250 R and the consensus of opinion is that the Ninja is really outstanding easily offering the best performance out of all the 250's, that it outhandles larger displacement bikes, is more fun to ride, offers between 50 and 60 miles per gallon, offers great fuel range, will hit something like 100 miles an hour, accelerates briskly enough to handle the traffic on any highway provided one is willing to downshift pretty often, is a terrific looker, and that it is pretty inexpensive. But one of the reviews mentions several small weaknesses. One of them is a certain hiccuping in the carburated American version in certain situations such as driving behind a cavalcade of cars at say around 30 miles an hour when suddenly a hole opens up in that line and one needs to get on the gas, now. There is a momentary problem and hesitation with the fuel delivery in such situations. That review mentions that the European fuel injected version of the 250 R would not have this problem. I personally feel there would be no horsepower gain or very little with the more expensive European fuel injected version (which will be offered in Thailand) over the carburated offering sold in the states.

The Ninja 250 is the best 250 offered in the States; however it's only competitors aren't even in the same class. Trying to say it's better than the 'cruisers' Virago and Nighthawk is really dragging it down. I'm thinking I will probably end up dropping the money on it, however, I need to probably give my old CBR 150R to my brother in law as a graduation present or something before my 'better' half approves of a purchase like this.

[BigBikeBKK]

"Americans do not ride teensy little bikes". Stop trying to sound all macho guys, it's only cos your not content with the size of your manhood.

LOL NinjaGladiator

If anyone told me 5 years ago that I'd someday buy a 250 I'd have laughed my butt off.

I grew up riding in the US where you rarely see anything smaller than 600cc

Then I moved to Japan and brought my CBR 600 along. Got my butt kicked regularly on the twisties by guys on 400s and 250s.

Gave me a new appreciation and respect for smaller bikes. On the narrow Japanese roads there weren't that many places I could really open up my 600 anyway.

Plus, if you watch MotoGP I think you might agree that the 250 races are far more exciting than the big bikes (yawn)

Finally, upon arrival in the LOS I experienced Thai traffic and some major sticker shock when I saw the prices of big bikes here.

Then along comes the Euro spec Ninja 250R. I think this bike will be well suited to all types of conditions- long distance touring and urban riding, and the price is just right.

Only a few more days...

Edited August 19, 2008 by BigBikeBKK

[Richard-BKK]

The GP250 bikes are two-strokes, which means that it are aggressive bikes with huge amount of horsepower.

My g/f has wrote some experiences of riding one of the first Ninja 250's in Thailand Riding the Kawasaki Ninja 250R in Bangkok

Edited August 19, 2008 by Richard-BKK

[JonnyF]

Quite an interesting article, well written.

To be honest I find it a bit strange that a Thai female on a Thai website would describe a 250 Ninja as being "designed to attract a female rider" given the range of bikes available in LOS. I can’t really see the average “Nong” or “Lek” seeing this as a viable alternative to a Honda Wave. If the article was written for a European or American audience where anything less than a 600 is considered a bit "gay" then that would make more sense (maybe it was?).

The part about riding in Bangkok was really useful for me and pretty much what I expected.

I’ve been on a few websites for this little Ninja and talk of a high revving motor coming to life when it hits the power band is starting to remind me of some great 2 strokes I’ve owned.

Can't wait to pick mine up - 5 days to go

[moo9]

For that money you can get a decent 400cc bike. Ok, if you worry about 100% correctness of the book, one might prefer the Ninja 250, but....after all, the fun starts beyond 250cc, imho. It's still some kind of Teenie Bike...isn"t it?

[dotcom]

Tell us if it has a lumpy idle like Norton BSA & Triumph.

If it doesn't then it's worth a look.

[Big Guns]

Richard-BKK do you know if there is a dealer in Rayong that I can order the bike from? As I live in the Rayong region it would be a bit crazy to go to Bangkok to order a bike that's built here only to get it shipped back.

If you could let me know that would be great as I'd like to order this weekend.

Cheers

[LivinLOS]

I just found some photoshops.. This isnt a real bike, but I would buy one of these in a heart beat.

Thats a desirable little machine... C'mon Kwaker make it !!

[PeaceBlondie]

I never was into big bikes except that I startred with a 700cc Triumph street dragster at age 21. I was driving a 250 Triumph in grad school, a 400 for years full-time when I was in my 40's, etc. But the American magazines think anything under 600 doesn't count. So here we are in Thailand. The Ninja 250 is too pricey for me at this time, but I would love to ride one every day.

[Bard]

For that money you can get a decent 400cc bike. Ok, if you worry about 100% correctness of the book, one might prefer the Ninja 250, but....after all, the fun starts beyond 250cc, imho. It's still some kind of Teenie Bike...isn"t it?

I had a CBR 600 with uncool book, which now belongs to the Thai Police so I will never go for that again. Regarding the fun starts beyond the 250cc, I have read 600 owners complaining that the 250 ninjas outrun them in twisties, so that must be fun. Teenie bike, I read in Kawiforums several of the owners are long time drivers with experience of superbikes as well, but decided to go back to the Ninja for keeping things sane.

My bike view is this;

The 400 is heavier than a 250 and the engine is not that much more powerful as it seems in this forum for the typical 2nd hand 400 around here, say the Honda CB 400 N which there are lots of in Thailand, is 408 pounds (about 100 more than the Ninja) 43 HP @ 8500 rpm vs Ninja 33 HP @ 11000 rpm, Topspeed on the Honda is 161 km/h vs Ninja 178 km/h. Power to weight ratio is 0.23 vs 0.22 so I don't really see the big thing with that. I would like to meet up on Bira for a fun test with a 250R vs a typical 400... A heavier, slower bike more fun than a lighter and faster I donno...

The superbikes are just that.. super, they are rockets between the legs and driving them in a sane speed is really boring. Much more fun to go for it on a smaller bike which revs to 14000. When I was driving superbikes I went more and more insane with my Kawa 750 turbo and was driving pretty much like ghostrider at the end, I had to stop or I would end up dead. As they say in most forums, it's helluva much funner to drive a slow bike fast than driving a fast bike slow. And topping over 170 km/h I personally feel it's fast enough, from what I read of test reports it pulls fast to 150 km/h and fades off to the remaining speed, so that is more than enough for me.

Anyhow I will pick up mine the 9th of Sep. I am also living in Rayong and will pick it up in the Bigbike showroom in BKK... so Big Guns if you haven't decided yet you're welcome to come by and check mine out when I get it, or just come by for a beer or what have you.

Cheers

[LivinLOS]

I agree with what you say, especially the fast bike slow v slow bike fast comment.. But dont really agree on some of you numbers.. A 400 bandit is what 60hp ?? I remember my CBR400 felt a similar kind of pull (and the same engines are in the CB1) so think you picked one of the slower heavier examples you could find.

If they were to make a naked upright version like the photoshop images above I would have a very hard time stopping myself based on simple desire.. But realistically at 140 - 150k I could find a better option (as I am not really partial to mini sportbikes, my own personal taste).. hel_l at under 200 I can import a 06 FZ6 S2 I am looking at in the UK currently and that doesnt compare to me. What the ninja worth after 2 or 3 years and whats the FZ6 worth ??

[Bard]

Well, all us CBR 150R owners are watching this it seems. But will it be enough to tempt us away?

Hi,

That seems like a huge increase just by adding Fuel Injection. Did they make the torque suffer to get there? Everything I've read is that for the new '08 Ninja they had slightly redesigned the engine to offer more torque in the midrange; is the Euro-spec not following the same mentality? None the less I've seen HP claims for the 250 all over the spectrum. Motorcycle News has it at 33 (I'm assuming BHP, and that would fit a drive loss of 15% to get to 28 Rear Wheel),

You are correct, I read this test from a magazine that the Euro FI has actually 28 bhp from dyno's so I was wrong in the first answer. The US version non-jetted has 25 and a bit on the backwheel in dyno tests, so it is a 2 and something more hp it appears more with FI. Here is a comment "i did go 170km/h, I will put a video of it in a few days...

USA ninja have 30HP, and EU have 33 HP, so EU ninja is faster... In UK Kawasaki site it states on 33 BHP

Wikipedia has it at 36 BHP/26 RW (a whopping 28% loss),

Wikipedia is notoriously incorrect...

Kawasaki's website lists lb-ft only (but if my rusty skills allow me to remember correctly HP=(RPMxT)/5252 or 29 HP at 9500 RPM), etc. Also of note is the fact that Ninja 250 club states that you will NOT get more than high 30 rear wheel out of it. I also found a youtube clip with a 140 lb rider taking it to 60 in approximately 7

seconds;

The factory driver did it in 5,75 seconds, the 0-100 km/h (or 0-60 mph) is extremely dependant of driver skill on motorbikes, plus the weight of the driver. I saw the film myself

and he did wrong gearing for max ax. Anyhow there was several comments also after, one guy cronoed to 6.72 secs so with practise you can do better than he did. I did not find any bodyweight related to the film though.

they only hit some 100 MPH (approximately 160 KPH)

Well from the Barcellona (EU spec) test the magazine article I read stated; The bike pulled very fast to 150 km/h and some of the testers ran the bike to a bit over 170 km/h which was verified by GPS measurements.

however that is faster than what I can currently get to on my bike. The following Dyno chart has a Yoshi full system only offering 2.79 HP more. Are there any exhaust that can exceed that?

Yes there certainly is; Area-P full exhaust http://www.areapnolimits.com/products/Slip...a-250R-2008.php give you 5 hp more, the dyno there is with a non-jetted carb version. The Yoshi dyno is with a jetted version therefore the discreprency on the baseline. I already ordered an Area-P "quiet" system and according to Kevin (owner of Area-P) it will add 5 bhp and a much better curve (and a 7 hp more on top rpms). I will try to do a dyno when I'm done breaking mine in and installing the new exhaust system. So in that case it should give me 28 + 5 = 33 bhp on the back wheel, I will test it to make sure...

And that's the exact reason I was thinking about the Ninja. My house is out in the country; it would be used for 'high' speed travel of longerish distance. However, if you haven't figured it out by now; I need to justify to myself why I should get it over my current CBR 150R.

Peace bro, I figured that much out. I just tried to reply to your please help note. Here is my direct reply to that one again;

If you feel you're spending to much money, don't buy it stay with the Honda

If you feel the need for a more agile and faster machine and you can spare the money, buy it

I will do a lot of driving around when I get mine so if you want and I'm in the area I'll let you test mine and see for yourself if you feel it's worth the spending. Or should you be in Rayong, just give me a note and you can try it out there.

[Bard]

I agree with what you say, especially the fast bike slow v slow bike fast comment.. But dont really agree on some of you numbers.. A 400 bandit is what 60hp ?? I remember my CBR400 felt a similar kind of pull (and the same engines are in the CB1) so think you picked one of the slower heavier examples you could find.

If they were to make a naked upright version like the photoshop images above I would have a very hard time stopping myself based on simple desire.. But realistically at 140 - 150k I could find a better option (as I am not really partial to mini sportbikes, my own personal taste).. hel_l at under 200 I can import a 06 FZ6 S2 I am looking at in the UK currently and that doesnt compare to me. What the ninja worth after 2 or 3 years and whats the FZ6 worth ??

A CB 400 N has 43 hp @ 8500 rpm and is very typically found around in Pattaya, the CBR 400 has 53 hp at 13000 rpm and the CBR400RR has 59 hp @ 13000, also found around in Thailand. I seen those and the Bandits so yes there are more agile 400's out there absolutely. But a lot of the 2nd hand ones in 120k - 140k is CB 400 N and that is not much of a bike in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong the 400's are ok bikes but in my opinion they're not a light bike nor a big so they're kind of stuck in the middle, if I wanted a bigger bike than the 250 I would buy the Kawa ER-6n seems to be a great bike if you want something upright with speed and power, but I know myself well enough to not go for a 600 or more, I will finally end up dead. I love those bikes to much and I will go insane driving and luckily for me there is a bike to drive like the 250. But that is just my personal opinion...

What the bike is worth in 2 or 3 years is unknow yet. Any bike or car loose value, in my experience was my CBR600 was worth 0 when the police took it due to dodgy papers.

[Bard]

Just to clear up a little bit

The Ninja 250 is NOT a 0-100 racer even though it outruns easily most cars, they are measured to around high 6 to 7 second by normal riders

The Ninja 250 is NOT a speed monster, but it will do more than enough to break any speedlimit in Thailand, It will peak at around 170+ unmodified

So if you consider buying it, if top speed or 0-100 is your deal it is not for you!

The Ninja gives you just enough rope to not hang yourself, not that you can't kill yourself on one, but it's controllable and fun to ride, perfect for twisties, or on roads where,,, well like a straydog or a Hino in the wrong side of the road might appear anywhere, due to it's manouverability and easyness to control. If you're in dense traffic it's a breeze to joggle through traffic, It also gives good milage on the gas. If you like the looks that is a plus to. So that sums it pretty much up...

Here is a movie of a Ninja in it's elements (kinda long but I like it), note the owner (Kim) has a US version, pulled the snorkel on it, re-jetted and has an Area-P Quiet core exhaust system on this 2008 model.

Vid is about 17 minutes long.....

http://www.vimeo.com/1292929

I ordered one because I personally like the way it looks, and the properties I mentioned above is exactly what I want when driving a bike in Thailand (In Rayong all the traps you can imagine is in the road). I do also feel personally that it's worth the money, it would cost exactly the same in US for a fuel injected one, in Europe it's way more expensive.

[NinjaGladiator]

Importing a bike from UK is not as simple as chucking in a shipping container and driving out the other end. The duty you have to pay + registration costs normally doubles the cost of the bike. When you see a CBR600r '06 for sale here in LOS it'll have a price tag around 300-350,000bt yet I could pick that up in the UK for half the price, so some idiots may be thinking "that dealers making a shit load, I'll import my own", Duh - he's an expert at it, he also speaks/reads thai, he's probably marked the bike up an extra 50k, and he'd be due every penny, good luck anybody who takes on the challenge to safe 50K. LivinLos - the figures you quoted is that legal or illegal.

One other point to mention, big bike taxation is moving here in LOS, making it more viable/interesting for manufacturers to setup dealerships, yamaha, duke, triumph, all have good ranges available now, kawasaki have a couple and some in pipe-line, honda are in the planning stage. Once this happens grey imports & illegals are gonna have a hard time, illegal bikes will become worthless.

[dave_boo]

Well, all us CBR 150R owners are watching this it seems. But will it be enough to tempt us away?

Hi,

That seems like a huge increase just by adding Fuel Injection. Did they make the torque suffer to get there? Everything I've read is that for the new '08 Ninja they had slightly redesigned the engine to offer more torque in the midrange; is the Euro-spec not following the same mentality? None the less I've seen HP claims for the 250 all over the spectrum. Motorcycle News has it at 33 (I'm assuming BHP, and that would fit a drive loss of 15% to get to 28 Rear Wheel),

You are correct, I read this test from a magazine that the Euro FI has actually 28 bhp from dyno's so I was wrong in the first answer. The US version non-jetted has 25 and a bit on the backwheel in dyno tests, so it is a 2 and something more hp it appears more with FI. Here is a comment "i did go 170km/h, I will put a video of it in a few days...

USA ninja have 30HP, and EU have 33 HP, so EU ninja is faster... In UK Kawasaki site it states on 33 BHP

Well, if an official site has it at that, I'll take it over the general assertion of the mouth breathers who inhabit the internet and spew forth trash they don't know what they're talking about!

Wikipedia has it at 36 BHP/26 RW (a whopping 28% loss),

Wikipedia is notoriously incorrect...

See previous note.

Kawasaki's website lists lb-ft only (but if my rusty skills allow me to remember correctly HP=(RPMxT)/5252 or 29 HP at 9500 RPM), etc. Also of note is the fact that Ninja 250 club states that you will NOT get more than high 30 rear wheel out of it. I also found a youtube clip with a 140 lb rider taking it to 60 in approximately 7

seconds;

The factory driver did it in 5,75 seconds, the 0-100 km/h (or 0-60 mph) is extremely dependant of driver skill on motorbikes, plus the weight of the driver. I saw the film myself

and he did wrong gearing for max ax. Anyhow there was several comments also after, one guy cronoed to 6.72 secs so with practise you can do better than he did. I did not find any bodyweight related to the film though.

I'm assuming that the clip we're both refering to had standard gearing. And it's a given that with the 'right' gearing, you can have anything beat a Ferrari at stock. The weight came from the comments; I had to read them all to find it. However, the reason I brought the weight up is that I doubt few of the posters in this thread can claim to be that light; this will adversely affect the acceleration.

they only hit some 100 MPH (approximately 160 KPH)

Well from the Barcellona (EU spec) test the magazine article I read stated; The bike pulled very fast to 150 km/h and some of the testers ran the bike to a bit over 170 km/h which was verified by GPS measurements.

Official test results are accepted in my book. Unfortunately I am only able to judge the bike on what I've read from US mags and seen on Youtube clips. I'd be delighted to get on an actual bike and wring its neck to see what it has.

however that is faster than what I can currently get to on my bike. The following Dyno chart has a Yoshi full system only offering 2.79 HP more. Are there any exhaust that can exceed that?

Yes there certainly is; Area-P full exhaust http://www.areapnolimits.com/products/Slip...a-250R-2008.php give you 5 hp more, the dyno there is with a non-jetted carb version. The Yoshi dyno is with a jetted version therefore the discreprency on the baseline. I already ordered an Area-P "quiet" system and according to Kevin (owner of Area-P) it will add 5 bhp and a much better curve (and a 7 hp more on top rpms). I will try to do a dyno when I'm done breaking mine in and installing the new exhaust system. So in that case it should give me 28 + 5 = 33 bhp on the back wheel, I will test it to make sure...

Wow, if those numbers are to be believed, it means that the Ninja is extremely choked at the exhaust. Will you be able to get the same results with a F.I. model? And according to their webpage (at least how I read it), to get those numbers you need to re-jet your US spec bike. Are there any tuner kits for the F.I. models? Also, why the little stumble at just past 9k RPMs? Is that a non-optimal cam profile? I suppose there's replacement cams though......

And that's the exact reason I was thinking about the Ninja. My house is out in the country; it would be used for 'high' speed travel of longerish distance. However, if you haven't figured it out by now; I need to justify to myself why I should get it over my current CBR 150R.

Peace bro, I figured that much out. I just tried to reply to your please help note. Here is my direct reply to that one again;

If you feel you're spending to much money, don't buy it stay with the Honda

If you feel the need for a more agile and faster machine and you can spare the money, buy it

I will do a lot of driving around when I get mine so if you want and I'm in the area I'll let you test mine and see for yourself if you feel it's worth the spending. Or should you be in Rayong, just give me a note and you can try it out there.

While it is a big chunk of change, I don't necessarily thing that it's too much. The problem is convincing the wife that it is enough of an improvement of the current ride to justify the cash outlay.

I'm not so sure that it would be more agile than the Honda, but more stability and not listening to a bike drone on at over 12k to hit 'highway' speeds would be nice.

Thanks for the offer, I'll be back, as stated earlier, in November. I may take you up on the offer, even if it does involve making a trip down to Rayong! I've pretty much outgrown this Honda, and though it was fun and taught me a LOT about riding in Thailand I believe it's time to move on.

[LivinLOS]

Importing a bike from UK is not as simple as chucking in a shipping container and driving out the other end. The duty you have to pay + registration costs normally doubles the cost of the bike. When you see a CBR600r '06 for sale here in LOS it'll have a price tag around 300-350,000bt yet I could pick that up in the UK for half the price, so some idiots may be thinking "that dealers making a shit load, I'll import my own", Duh - he's an expert at it, he also speaks/reads thai, he's probably marked the bike up an extra 50k, and he'd be due every penny, good luck anybody who takes on the challenge to safe 50K. LivinLos - the figures you quoted is that legal or illegal.

I would bring the bike in on a temporary import, good for 6 months at a time, leave it on UK plates and every 6 months have a nice little holiday (I have 90 day visa runs anyway) to Malaysia, Cambo, or Laos. The whole point for me about a nice bigger bike is to do more exploring on it around SE Asia.. I can keep it on UK plates in my name.. Easy and free.

Secondly if someone wants to purchase it, I can put it in thier name in the UK.. Provide them the legal title ownership and visa run it out of the country and they can visa run it in.. All totally legal, and above board.

So actually temp import of a bike IS as simple as putting it in a shipping crate and riding it out the other end. Its keeping it here that involves taxes not bringing it in.

I have multiple mates here on Phuket with big bikes in thier home country registration. Ones had his harley on cali registration for years doing this.. The local customs are all totally cool with it and dont even ask for a bribe or bottle of whisky to do that paperwork for you, its become routine. One person I know has simply stopped visa running a couple of years ago, of course hes breaking the law but its not like they seem to have much of a system of checking this (the bike 'overstay' fine is a max of about 30k on the paperwork they have given him). Really once you have had a few years of use at that price I would say you have had your moneys worth anyway.

I have the secondary issue that I have a brother in Bali and want to ride down through Indo, however getting a carnet on a Thai registered bike is a real tough issue as Thailand is not a signatory to the agreement and wont issue one. Indo is a signatory and insist you have one !! So catch 22. I like Indonesia and spend some of each year on Bali, I reckon a Java / Sumatra journey, a month on Bali and return would be an epic little trip. So for me having a UK bike that I can easily gain a carnet on, is actually a plus not a minus.

Edited August 25, 2008 by LivinLOS

[snowflake]

So today is the 25th, did anyone get their Kwak??? how is it, pictures, reports, I am a little envious... Well enjoy your new ride and remember, ride carefully, 5 minutes of fun is not worth a lifetime in a wheelchair. You do not have to be that tough.

[JUDAS]

I too am awaiting the first reports from TV members about the Ninja. Really do want to get myself one, just trying to justify the cost as I would be keeping it in the Surin/Buri Ram area which I only visit for about one week in five. Decisions decisions....

[BigBikeBKK]

It's a beautiful Monday morning and I'll be headed to the Kawasaki showroom this afternoon to pick up my new Ninja 250R

LOL- Kawa called on Friday to ask if I want a special liscense plate number... I know the Thais, and Asians in general are so into lucky numbers, but the only number I could think of was 69 and the wife gave me a good smack over that one! Ok honey... How about 96?

Kawasaki is throwing in a free REAL brand helmet or passenger seat cowl. I wonder if REAL brand helmets are any good... Understand they are DOT approved and I read somewhere that they were reverse engineered from the Shoei XR series. 5mm ABS shell, EPS Foam, removable liner, etc...

Their website doesn't provide too many details and needs some work... Real Helmets

Ah well, if it's crap I guess I can just run over to the Paddock and pick up a new Shoei

I'll post some pictures soon! Let the Good Times Roll

... LMAO! Only in Thailand! Just called Kawasaki to find out which helmet they're offering. They said it's the "Stealth"... but it won't be available until September Too funny! Man... hope there aren't too many folks showing up today thinking that their bike and helmet will be waiting for them...

Edited August 25, 2008 by BigBikeBKK

[LivinLOS]

Heard good things about REAL helmets.. Not Shoei level but a lot better than index or other Thai ones.

I think they were being made in Vietnam ?? Was a thread of info on GT Rider.

So waiting on pictures

[JonnyF]

Just rode mine back from the showroom - can't really give too many first impressions because it was 12 kms of Bangkok traffic to get it back to work but it's really smooth through the gears, a nice light clutch and feels at home weaving through the traffic. Very comfortable riding position and surprisingly torquey at lowish revs. The power is obviously at the top of the rev range but I haven't been up there yet and probably won't do for a few more rides.

I actually felt much safer on it than the Nouvo because I can accelerate forward into the gaps now as well as dropping back into them.

Anyone else got theirs?

[Bard]

First of all congratulations to everyone who picked up there bike today, let the good times roll. Post pics of your new rides people, and keep feedback coming it's highly appreciated.

I'm assuming that the clip we're both refering to had standard gearing. And it's a given that with the 'right' gearing, you can have anything beat a Ferrari at stock. The weight came from the comments; I had to read them all to find it. However, the reason I brought the weight up is that I doubt few of the posters in this thread can claim to be that light; this will adversely affect the acceleration.

Hehe you're absolutely right there I'm 200 pounds so I don't expect to be the rocket man hehe...

Official test results are accepted in my book. Unfortunately I am only able to judge the bike on what I've read from US mags and seen on Youtube clips. I'd be delighted to get on an actual bike and wring its neck to see what it has.

Fully agree, can't wait to try it out

Wow, if those numbers are to be believed, it means that the Ninja is extremely choked at the exhaust. Will you be able to get the same results with a F.I. model? And according to their webpage (at least how I read it), to get those numbers you need to re-jet your US spec bike. Are there any tuner kits for the F.I. models? Also, why the little stumble at just past 9k RPMs? Is that a non-optimal cam profile? I suppose there's replacement cams though......

Yes, the original system has 2 cats installed plus are chocked to not give more than 33 bhp which is the maximum limit for medium sized motorbike class in EU. If you go to Kawiforums.com you can read up on kkim posts he has a installation photo how2 on the system plus much more testing with it. He found out to get rid of the 9k stumble he had to pull the snorkel, which he also has an how2 on. When I emailed back and forth to Area-P about the FI version, he was extremely helpful and fast in his replies. You have to mod the exhaust header by drilling a hole and welding on a ss nut there to install the O2 sensor. After what he told me from feedback from European buyers the O2 sensor re-jets the bike by itself since it's programmed to adjust the fuel rate for the airflow passing by. I have ordered the full quiet system and it's on it's way, and I will try it out and see for myself.

While it is a big chunk of change, I don't necessarily thing that it's too much. The problem is convincing the wife that it is enough of an improvement of the current ride to justify the cash outlay.

Hehe I used one week to get my wife to not freak out on me anymore after my lunatic 600 driving, she still don't want to talk about it and is a bit sour but what the heck, I want this and she finally caved in for it after lots of the normal drama.

Thanks for the offer, I'll be back, as stated earlier, in November. I may take you up on the offer, even if it does involve making a trip down to Rayong! I've pretty much outgrown this Honda, and though it was fun and taught me a LOT about riding in Thailand I believe it's time to move on.

Absolutely, your welcome to come by whenever I'm home just send me a message, at that time it should be broken in so you can try it out at full if you want, give me a note and I'll have some beers and a bbq ready as well I will also have the Area-P system in and experimented enough to figure out how to get it optimized I assume.

A final note for more quiet ride I read up in kawiforums some have changed the front sprocket to 15 instead of the 14 and 41 instead of 45 back sprocket, it might suffer a bit on the ax but it is calming down the rpm, and in 6th gear it is giving 10mph per 1000 rpm, so 6k is 60 mph vs just around 7k original, and 8k at 80 mph so that would be nice if you ride a lot on faster roads. Probably not a bad idea to do a full exhaust though at the same time to get enough power to utilize this...

The all stock has been reported in kawiforums to 104 -105 mph top speed.

But with +1 front and -4 sprocket on the back sprocket it's reported to 1st max 42.6 mph, 2nd 61.9 mph, 3rd 78.6 mph, 4th 95.5 mph, 5th 110.8 mph, 6th 124.1 mph

vs stock 1st 36.1 mph, 2nd 52.57 mph, 3rd 66.75 mph, 4th 81.1 mph, 5th 94.1 mph, 6th 105.4 mph

http://www.kawiforums.com/showthread.php?t=115528&page=5

[Richard-BKK]

If the Real helmets are made in Vietnam, you better no wear them. I bought a few Shoei helmets (I know they where fake) for less then 1000 Baht per pieces. Normally Shoei helmets go for something like 25,000 and more Baht.

[Bard]

Richard-BKK do you know if there is a dealer in Rayong that I can order the bike from? As I live in the Rayong region it would be a bit crazy to go to Bangkok to order a bike that's built here only to get it shipped back.

If you could let me know that would be great as I'd like to order this weekend.

Cheers

Hi Big Guns,

I have really good news for us in Rayong and Pattaya area, Kawasaki just emailed me that they have now an official dealer in Pattaya and the bike I ordered will be ready to be picked up there on my delivery date. So all services and pickup is now a breeze. I am really pleased with that one

Cheers

[moo9]

Hiya,

good news...finally the 150 cc barrier seems to melt. However 250cc is no alternative to me, but I am happy that the choices widens now. Somehow sick of 108 - 135cc choices.

Where is the dealer in Pattaya?

Cheers

Moo9