Living Costs

[unbiasbob]

30 grand a month is about right. All depends on the beer situation really. On the p*ss quite a bit and eating western food all the time will take you over this amount. 80K seems a bit steep, unless you have that 25-30K condo etc, etc.

It's obvious from postings such as this that Thailand is attracting a very civilised type of Western resident, well attuned to the nuances of local culture and sensibilities.Clearly a regular at the Siam Society and an excellent ambassador for his country here.Sarcasm apart, he is probably a perfectly harmless little fellow but I wonder whether he has any idea how revealing his witless comments on the cost of living are.

My, you are a sarcastic one aren't you, BORIS! I'm not that civilised, partially attuned to local culture, never been to the 'kin Siam Society and certainly no ambassador for my country, and not entirely harmless. As regards revealing. Revealing what? that I don't have a 20 - 30k lady and a car to pay for.

8 grand on digs, 6-8 grand on food, 8 grand on g/f and whatever on p*ss, but not excessive...anymore. There, all is revealed. Not saying that I couldn't go over the 30k, which I reglarly do if I fancy a little sojourn to wherever. Just saying that it's fairly easy to get by in LOS without a huge bank balance.

Hey dude, I just spent 4 grand yesterday and didn't really buy anything other than a couple of beers and food. That kind of spending pace is not hard to keep up just going out with no transport. So there you have 30k/ month on nothing+30k on pad+20k on groceries+ 20k on g/f. I'm up to 100k already and I don't have transport nor did I include visa running or misc expense. This idea of living off 30k is a fantasy which I suppose you could pull off if you have the mindset where you could live out of a cardboard box on the street back in your home country. Thailand just aint that cheap.

[loong]

I reckon you are the exception not the norm. I f you think that 30k per month is a fantasy then there are a ###### of a lot of people in fantasy land.

The amount you spend in Thailand, the same as many things "It's up to you"

[unbiasbob]

I reckon you are the exception not the norm. I f you think that 30k per month is a fantasy then there are a ###### of a lot of people in fantasy land.

The amount you spend in Thailand, the same as many things "It's up to you"

You gotta be pretty streamlined and disciplined to live off 30k. I personally think it is a pipe dream even if you live in a closet

[kiwibird]

the only other expenses is travel (bus, sawng taeo, rot duu) and entertainment, just movies for me, about 2000 baht a month

you left out 1 huge monumental expense, pal. transport!

no i didnt. transport is cheap for me since, as i said, i take buses, rot duu, sawng taeo etc. fortunately i can walk to work, but if you get taxis everywhere, or have a car and you need to pay for petrol, tollways, etc. then sure, transport costs will be much more. make it 6000 baht a month, and you still get under 30,000 baht a month.

but the fact is, biasbob, you might believe "it [living under 3ok a month] is a pipe dream even if you live in a closet ", but im telling you, i live on less than that a month and live a modest and comforatble, but by no means primitive and unbearable, lifestyle eg 14th floor condo with 3 air con, ubc. there are more places to live and eat in bkk than sukhumvit.

[unbiasbob]

the only other expenses is travel (bus, sawng taeo, rot duu) and entertainment, just movies for me, about 2000 baht a month

you left out 1 huge monumental expense, pal. transport!

no i didnt. transport is cheap for me since, as i said, i take buses, rot duu, sawng taeo etc. fortunately i can walk to work, but if you get taxis everywhere, or have a car and you need to pay for petrol, tollways, etc. then sure, transport costs will be much more. make it 6000 baht a month, and you still get under 30,000 baht a month.

but the fact is, biasbob, you might believe "it [living under 3ok a month] is a pipe dream even if you live in a closet ", but im telling you, i live on less than that a month and live a modest and comforatble, but by no means primitive and unbearable, lifestyle eg 14th floor condo with 3 air con, ubc. there are more places to live and eat in bkk than sukhumvit.

oh I'm sure it can be done but I wouldn't be able to do it. I tried to change to that lifestyle and lasted about 4 days

[bkk_mike]

I spend over 100K a month, but most of it is mortgage, car payments and school fees.

Cars (especially imported ones) are very expensive here. (The FTA with Australia means Aussie cars are suddenly comparatively cheap though, if only Australia made nicer cars - although HSV looks a little interesting).

School fees are actually cheap by international standards for private schooling (but would, on their own, come close to breaking your 30K monthly budget for one child.)

The cost of the house depends greatly on where it is, and how big it is.

Broadband has recently become reasonably priced (in Bangkok), and food is cheap. I've had pepper steak for 60 baht, so even non-Thai food can be had cheaply. Eating out (outside tourist areas), the price per head is less than going to Burger King in the UK. 1900 baht for 7 a couple of days ago, although we did bring our own spirits, so that just included mixers and food.

Electricity can be fairly expensive, because of the cost of the aircon, but water's not too bad. (and I have kids - so use lots of water).

If you don't want a car, or want to drive a pick-up (which are actually cheap here because they're made locally and not taxed heavily), then your transport costs are probably cheaper than back home. (Diesel and petrol are subsidised!!! - For someone from the UK used to fuel having tax rates in the 600% range, it's virtually given away. The only thing is cars don't drop in price as rapidly as in other countries, so used cars seem awfully expensive. (probably due to rust not being a big issue, and the cost of servicing/repairs being very cheap).

Summary is - if it's you on your own, then 30K is probably enough to live on. You won't be well off but you can definitely live on it now. (a Thai with a reasonable job generally earns in the 20-35K range).

It will be a lot simpler if you can scrape together enough income for the immigration requirements though, even if you don't transfer it all to Thailand, as you can then avoid doing visa runs, assuming you qualify for a retirement visa (over 50?)

Whether you'll be able to still live on 30K a month in 10 years time is another matter. Inflation here is about 3-4% so you'd need 40-45K then for the same standard of living. Also, if your income is from abroad, you have to worry about exchange rate movements. (I've been lucky - since I came here the pound has gone from 60 baht to 75 baht, so my income goes 25% further, but it could just as easily go the other way, so you need some leeway in your budget to allow for that).

[jhj2000]

I suppose my real living costs are a lot more but then I have relatives school fees to pay. Me I'm a bit like a Lada car.

[jackr]

30 grand a month is about right. All depends on the beer situation really. On the p*ss quite a bit and eating western food all the time will take you over this amount. 80K seems a bit steep, unless you have that 25-30K condo etc, etc.

It's obvious from postings such as this that Thailand is attracting a very civilised type of Western resident, well attuned to the nuances of local culture and sensibilities.Clearly a regular at the Siam Society and an excellent ambassador for his country here.Sarcasm apart, he is probably a perfectly harmless little fellow but I wonder whether he has any idea how revealing his witless comments on the cost of living are.

My, you are a sarcastic one aren't you, BORIS! I'm not that civilised, partially attuned to local culture, never been to the 'kin Siam Society and certainly no ambassador for my country, and not entirely harmless. As regards revealing. Revealing what? that I don't have a 20 - 30k lady and a car to pay for.

8 grand on digs, 6-8 grand on food, 8 grand on g/f and whatever on p*ss, but not excessive...anymore. There, all is revealed. Not saying that I couldn't go over the 30k, which I reglarly do if I fancy a little sojourn to wherever. Just saying that it's fairly easy to get by in LOS without a huge bank balance.

Hey dude, I just spent 4 grand yesterday and didn't really buy anything other than a couple of beers and food. That kind of spending pace is not hard to keep up just going out with no transport. So there you have 30k/ month on nothing+30k on pad+20k on groceries+ 20k on g/f. I'm up to 100k already and I don't have transport nor did I include visa running or misc expense. This idea of living off 30k is a fantasy which I suppose you could pull off if you have the mindset where you could live out of a cardboard box on the street back in your home country. Thailand just aint that cheap.

You spent 4k and didn't really buy anything other than some beers and a bit of food? Are we talking about the same country here? I understand those with families, mortgages and cars to pay for spending loads, but you've only got a g/f, and transport not included on that 100K. If you're in a position where you've got bags of dosh to spend then that's great, but living off 30k is definitely feasible and in relative comfort.

[lopburi3]

Problem with this thread is that everyone is right. You can live on 30k or 300k. Just as you can live at different levels anywhere.

The big thing that many forget is that we are likely to be here more than a few months or years and with no support system to fall back on our ability to save will be very important. For those living at the low end it is going to be a very large problem as they age I fear.

Understand many may disagree with me but please think it through carefully.

[Boon Mee]

The median number from everything I've learned is 65k Baht regardless where up-country you live. That number may suffice in BKK but you'd have to live like a Thai.

[sriracha john]

To echo Lopburi's comments, I know people that live in Thailand on 11,000 per month and had a friend who left because he didn't think his 120,000 was enough. Thailand living expenses can be whatever you want them to be.

btw, I do have to laugh at BoonMee's comment that you'd have "to live like a Thai" if you have less than 65K in Bkk... like it's some curse.

[Boon Mee]

To echo Lopburi's comments, I know people that live in Thailand on 11,000 per month and had a friend who left because he didn't think his 120,000 was enough. Thailand living expenses can be whatever you want them to be.

btw, I do have to laugh at BoonMee's comment that you'd have "to live like a Thai" if you have less than 65K in Bkk... like it's some curse.

Well, don't split your sides laughing, there 'cause I meant to "live like a Thai" as something a lot of Farangs can't handle. Their life-style would be significantly curtailed.

[phormio]

...

Cars (especially imported ones) are very expensive here. (The FTA with Australia means Aussie cars are suddenly comparatively cheap though, if only Australia made nicer cars - ...

I'm Wondering about the Thai Australia FTA and its impact on Australian car prices in Thailand. Did new Australia auto imports into Thailand have price drops by as much as 50% (duties and taxes for imported new cars from Japan/US into Thailand are in excess of 150%). Also, when the Australian import cars prices dropped was there an immediate corresponding drop in the price of used Australian models? Thailand is currently negotiating FTA's with Japan and the United States and I'm wondering if its worth waiting for these new FTAs to come into play before buying a new car in Thailand. Plan to move to Thailand from the US around end 2004/beginning of 2005 . These FTAs might go into effect in 2005 or 2006.

Thanks

[unbiasbob]

Problem with this thread is that everyone is right. You can live on 30k or 300k. Just as you can live at different levels anywhere.

The big thing that many forget is that we are likely to be here more than a few months or years and with no support system to fall back on our ability to save will be very important. For those living at the low end it is going to be a very large problem as they age I fear.

Understand many may disagree with me but please think it through carefully.

outstanding point

[jackr]

I suppose costs are bound to escalate if people spend 30k a month on nothing, as was previously quoted, and the g/f is getting 20k+ a month in her sky rocket

[RamdomChances]

Just a quick tip.

If you spend 30,000 a month on nothing, stop it. Then you will have an extra 30,000 a month

How long is a piece of string?

[meadish_sweetball]

Just a quick tip.

If you spend 30,000 a month on nothing, stop it. Then you will have an extra 30,000 a month

How long is a piece of string?

Love it.

Not all of us live like the main character in "Money" by Martin Amis, and we are still very happy. Lopburi3's advice is very sound.

Also please remember to GET INSURED... I know that might be a foreign idea to some people from countries with good welfare systems, but honestly... you DON'T want to get into a judicial dispute with someone here after an accident has occured. You will pay, and pay and pay and pay to no end.

[Felt 35]

Average income in Thailand 2003 was US 7400, -

Which is approximately 307,000, - Baht. Divide that with twelve months and you get around 25500, - Baht.

If your budget is 30,000, - Baht you are almost 20% over the average income so

You should manage it.

In comparison the average income in many western countries is around US 30-38000, -

The expenses are also 5-10 times higher than in Thailand. Can people live from

US 30-38000, - in a western country annually + 20%? Sure they can.

But if the bills go up here I guess the difference is the way we live and spend money here and how we spend it home. It’s costly both here and in the west if on a long, long holiday.

[lopburi3]

The expenses are also 5-10 times higher than in Thailand.

Exactly where, and on what planet, do you live?

Thinking you are going to live here at the same standard for 1/5 or 1/10th what it costs in a developed country is not true and very dangerous thinking IMHO.

[paulfr]

Statement ...

The expenses are also 5-10 times higher than in Thailand.

Lopburi's Reply .....

Exactly where, and on what planet, do you live?

Thinking you are going to live here at the same standard for 1/5 or 1/10th what it costs in a developed country is not true and very dangerous thinking IMHO.

------------------

You are both right.

But, there is a parameter missing here.

The difference between a Thai's standard/expectations and those

of a Westerner.

I think it is true that a Thai can live on 1/5 to 1/10th what a Westerner

in his home country. If average income is 25000B/month, that is about $620/month, easily 1/10th of many Westerners, especially those that

often travel overseas.

But one forgets that what a Thai considers a decent standard is quite

a bit less than what a Westerner expects.

So when you add in the AC, Satellite TV, HS Internet, Upgraded

kitchens and furniture, required living area and sq footage, transportation

in cars and taxi's, etc ........

Lopburi is right that you will seriously underestimate what you will need

to be comfortable and happy here in Thailand.

Be careful with your budget and allow for contingencies, not to

mention long term risks of inflation, health care, currency fluctuations, etc.

[sriracha john]

Average income in Thailand 2003 was US 7400, -

Which is approximately 307,000, - Baht. Divide that with twelve months and you get around 25500, - Baht.

I would submit that a more accurate picture of Thai incomes would be to look at median and not average annual income. This is because of the disparity between the super-super rich, like Thaksin, and the average Somchai. His billions (some say Trillion) artificially inflate the Thai average annual income. The latest figures I found (2002) for median annual income : $2100 = B81,600 = B7,175/month.

[unbiasbob]

Average income in Thailand 2003 was US 7400, -

Which is approximately 307,000, - Baht. Divide that with twelve months and you get around 25500, - Baht.

If your budget is 30,000, - Baht you are almost 20% over the average income so

You should manage it.

In comparison the average income in many western countries is around US 30-38000, -

The expenses are also 5-10 times higher than in Thailand. Can people live from

US 30-38000, - in a western country annually + 20%? Sure they can.

But if the bills go up here I guess the difference is the way we live and spend money here and how we spend it home. It’s costly both here and in the west if on a long, long holiday.

It is very easy to talk about what Thais make and how farangs can just live off that. However a Thais lifestyle is radically different from farang. Such as having multiple family members living in a single room apt and having no furnishings among other things we have never experienced. Now a few farangs can handle this life style but I'd say not many

[jackr]

Average income in Thailand 2003 was US 7400, -

Which is approximately 307,000, - Baht. Divide that with twelve months and you get around 25500, - Baht.

I would submit that a more accurate picture of Thai incomes would be to look at median and not average annual income. This is because of the disparity between the super-super rich, like Thaksin, and the average Somchai. His billions (some say Trillion) artificially inflate the Thai average annual income. The latest figures I found (2002) for median annual income : $2100 = B81,600 = B7,175/month.

That's a more realistic figure, John. The average Thai out of the population certainly doesn't earn 25,000 grand a month.!

[phormio]

Average income in Thailand 2003 was US 7400, -

Which is approximately 307,000, - Baht. Divide that with twelve months and you get around 25500, - Baht.

If your budget is 30,000, - Baht you are almost 20% over the average income so

You should manage it.

In comparison the average income in many western countries is around US 30-38000, -

The expenses are also 5-10 times higher than in Thailand. Can people live from

US 30-38000, -  in a western country annually + 20%? Sure they can.

But if the bills go up here I guess the difference is the way we live and spend money here and how we spend it home. It’s costly both here and in the west if on a long, long holiday.

Your number for average of $7400 quoted in the CIA factbook for Thailand for 2003 and is described there as purchase power parity - (adjusted up because stuff is cheaper in Thailand, so this IS NOT what the avg. Thai guy actually sees)

If you go to the statistical office of Thailand and check out their chart at

National Statistical Office of Thailand's table of HOUSEHOLD INCOME, EXPENDITURE AND DEBT

you'll see that the number for 2002 was around 13,500 baht so figure the 2004 figures are around 15000 baht per month or about $375 dollars per month.

This works out to around $4000 per year, not $7400 per year.

[Felt 35]

Exactly where, and on what planet, do you live?

“You can so say!”

However I shall admit that to say everything is 5-10 times less expensive in Thailand than in the west not always will hold stand, because its also a great price range in many western countries.

But my personal experience from Thailand for near eight years is that I up to this day not have found one simple thing which is near the cost of what the same thing cost in my home country and most thing I use daily,monthly is around five times less expensive here than home, and sometimes up to ten times

That includes food, drinks, water, electricity, apartment, transport, and gasoline and many more things++

BTW. I did not post because I live from 30000, - Baht a month. No unfortunately not. But I know people who do and they are not local Thais.

[Felt 35]

[/b]phormio

You are probably correct about that.

However if I look at my own country in this fact book it fit quit well.

[lopburi3]

That includes food, drinks, water, electricity, apartment, transport, and gasoline and many more things++

Invite you or any other reader to give examples of those items you believe that are 5 to 10 times more expensive elsewhere in comparable settings. Some items will be cheaper and some more expensive. But anything like 5-10 times as an overall figure is just not going to be the case.

If you find items that much cheaper I contend you are living cheaper and nothing wrong with that if you are happy. But don't ask me to do it.

[Felt 35]

QUOTE]Thinking you are going to live here at the same standard for 1/5 or 1/10th what it costs in a developed country is not true and very dangerous thinking IMHO.

I did not say that, but I said this:

The expenses are also 5-10 times higher than in Thailand.

BTW, I guess the prices is in great variation where in the west we come from, and because of that it is difficult to make a general comparison about expected living costs based on prices here and there.

I would think the way you live is what decide each ones budget.

But however it should be possible to make it on less than in the west.

[lopburi3]

But however it should be possible to make it on less than in the west.

Will agree to agree with you on that.

[phormio]

...

I would think the way you live is what decide each ones budget.

But however it should be possible to make it on less than in the west.

There's no doubt about it. The healthcare, rent, food are much cheaper than in the US and not far behind in quality. Particularly if you get out of BKK .

The culture and society are unique; hopefully globalization trends won't destroy this.