Dual Citizenship And Entering/leaving Thailand

[haadyai]

Hello there,

Sorry if there is already a post on this question but I couldn't locate the answer to my question.

I just becamce US citizen over this past summer and still hold my Thai passport. I am visiting Thailand again and wondering which passport I should use.

I visited Thailand last trip with my Thai passport and US green card in Febuary 2007. To my surprise as I didn't recall from my earlier trips that the immigration officers ever asked for my green card when exiting the country. I know that the airline staff will ask for a proof to enter the US which I am perfectly happy to show both my Thai and US passports. But I am not sure I want to show both passports to Thai immigration when exiting the country. I read several postings but didn't see anyone talking about Thai immigration asking for a document when leaving BKK for the US. Is it rare that Thai immigration asking for the document from Thai ciitzen when leaving the country for the US? Perhaps I should simply use US passport to enter Thailand? I plan to visit Japan on the way back to the US as well.

BTW, any Thai/American dual citizen ever renew Thai passport in the US? Any risk to do it? My Thai passport is still valid for a couple years but just wonder what I should do when the time comes.

Thanks.

[singa-traz]

Enter and Exit Thailand with your Thai Passport.

The airline would be the one who would want to see that you can enter in the US, and you may need to show your green card/US passport.

[Guest]

As stated, use your Thai passport to enter & leave Thailand. Better not to produce your US passport to Thai immigration as technically (although common) dual nationality is not allowed under Thai law. They are only concerned about your right to be here, and are not interested in your right to travel to the US - Also as noted by singa, its the airlines who must check that you have the correct documents to enter the country you're travelling to.

[singa-traz]

As stated, use your Thai passport to enter & leave Thailand. Better not to produce your US passport to Thai immigration as technically (although common) dual nationality is not allowed under Thai law. They are only concerned about your right to be here, and are not interested in your right to travel to the US - Also as noted by singa, its the airlines who must check that you have the correct documents to enter the country you're travelling to.

To correct the previous post, there is no Thai law that explicitly prevent dual nationality (to my knowledge), unlike other country such as Singapore.

The airline does the checking, as they would be responsible to fly you back if you cannot under the said country.

[lopburi3]

If you entered Thailand using your US passport this time you should use it to exit. If you entered with your Thai passport you should use that. And in the future always use your Thai passport for Thailand and your US passport for the US. Other countries you can use whichever gives you the best visa situation.

[5246jlg]

Hello there,

Sorry if there is already a post on this question but I couldn't locate the answer to my question.

I just becamce US citizen over this past summer and still hold my Thai passport. I am visiting Thailand again and wondering which passport I should use.

I visited Thailand last trip with my Thai passport and US green card in Febuary 2007. To my surprise as I didn't recall from my earlier trips that the immigration officers ever asked for my green card when exiting the country. I know that the airline staff will ask for a proof to enter the US which I am perfectly happy to show both my Thai and US passports. But I am not sure I want to show both passports to Thai immigration when exiting the country. I read several postings but didn't see anyone talking about Thai immigration asking for a document when leaving BKK for the US. Is it rare that Thai immigration asking for the document from Thai ciitzen when leaving the country for the US? Perhaps I should simply use US passport to enter Thailand? I plan to visit Japan on the way back to the US as well.

BTW, any Thai/American dual citizen ever renew Thai passport in the US? Any risk to do it? My Thai passport is still valid for a couple years but just wonder what I should do when the time comes.

Thanks.

Boy this could not be more timely for us! We have had to return to the US to finish out the Thai wife's US citizenship and have been wondering the same question. The problem, as we see it, is what happens at passport control on the way out of Thailand. If you came in on your Thai passport and tried to leave on your Thai passport you need a VISA (sometimes a hassle or hard to get) to get through passport control to travel say, back to the US. If you came in on your Thai Passport and tried to leave on your US passport you do not have an entry stamp showing when you came into Thailand in the US passport.

One solution we came up with was to enter Thailand on the Thai passport, leave to Thailand on the Thai passport and enter Laos (we normally live in Chiang Mai so it's close) on the US passport by doing Visa on arrival. Leave Laos on the US passport and enter Thailand on the US passport. You now have an entry stamp and 30 days to get on the plane and head back to the US on the US passport. While this seems like it would work, I sure would like to hear if there is an easier way or a hole in this plan!

Thanks!

[Crossy]

One solution we came up with was to enter Thailand on the Thai passport, leave to Thailand on the Thai passport and enter Laos (we normally live in Chiang Mai so it's close) on the US passport by doing Visa on arrival. Leave Laos on the US passport and enter Thailand on the US passport. You now have an entry stamp and 30 days to get on the plane and head back to the US on the US passport. While this seems like it would work, I sure would like to hear if there is an easier way or a hole in this plan!

You're making life over complex.

Thai immigration (going out) don't give as rats as to where you're going, only that you had the right to be here. The airline will want to see your right to enter the US so they don't get lumbered with bringing you back when denied entry.

There are several dual-passport holders on this board, none has reported issues with immigration going in or out

[TokyoT]

Botched the first response by putting it into the quote. Let's see if OK now

Boy this could not be more timely for us! We have had to return to the US to finish out the Thai wife's US citizenship and have been wondering the same question. The problem, as we see it, is what happens at passport control on the way out of Thailand. If you came in on your Thai passport and tried to leave on your Thai passport you need a VISA (sometimes a hassle or hard to get) to get through passport control to travel say, back to the US. If you came in on your Thai Passport and tried to leave on your US passport you do not have an entry stamp showing when you came into Thailand in the US passport.

The folks at immigration are concerned only with the legitimacy of your stay in Thailand (both coming and going). Hence it is best/ easiest to use her Thai passport for both entering and leaving Thailand.

The folks at the airline counter should care and should check (but not the folks at immigration) if she has the proper documentation to travel to her destination coutry. The airline and not Thai immigration is responsible for their passengers should they allow them to board a flight without the proper documentation (passport or visa).

My daughter has traveled out of Thailand many times and has never been asked by immigration to show proof of her ability to enter the country she is headed to regardless of her destination. Whenever she departs/ enters Thailand she always uses her Thai passport at the immigration booth (and if headed to the US she shows her US passport to at the airline counter when checking in for the flight - then uses her Thai passport at the immigation booth). Depending upon what country she is heading to and the length of her stay she then uses either her Thai or her US passport for entry/exit purposes at her next port of call. If headed to the US then she uses her US passport to enter the US. She has been to Singapore a number of times and has used her Thai and her US passport to enter/exit Singapore.

[jstumbo]

One solution we came up with was to enter Thailand on the Thai passport, leave to Thailand on the Thai passport and enter Laos (we normally live in Chiang Mai so it's close) on the US passport by doing Visa on arrival. Leave Laos on the US passport and enter Thailand on the US passport. You now have an entry stamp and 30 days to get on the plane and head back to the US on the US passport. While this seems like it would work, I sure would like to hear if there is an easier way or a hole in this plan!

Thanks!

I have heard that this can be a problem at a land border crossing. That they allow you to use a different passport when traveling by air, but they want you to use the same passport to enter Laos that you used to exit Thailand.

[lopburi3]

You can not normally switch passports on a land border crossing from Thailand as entry/exit stamps are checked. Always enter and exit using the same passport.

If you enter Thailand on a Thai passport and leave with a Thai passport but airline ticket is to the US and you have no visa; you show the airline your US passport. It is done every day and nothing sinister about it.

[Old Man River]

One thing that I have posted on TV in the past, and is important to note, when you leave the US nobody on the US side will ask for your US passport. However, the airline will ask you for proof that you can enter Thailand legally and if you just show them your Thai passport without saying anything else, they will input into the computer that you are a Thai leaving the US. This may cause confusion later, since you entered the US using your US passport. What you need to do is tell the airline employee that you are a US/Thai dual national and therefore it needs to be inputed in their airline computer that you are a US citizen leaving the US. They made this mistake with my daughter and I was lucky to catch it and they were nice enough to re-input the correct data into their computer.

I really don't know if this would have caused a problem with immigration, but why take the chance?

[jstumbo]

One thing that I have posted on TV in the past, and is important to note, when you leave the US nobody on the US side will ask for your US passport. However, the airline will ask you for proof that you can enter Thailand legally and if you just show them your Thai passport without saying anything else, they will input into the computer that you are a Thai leaving the US. This may cause confusion later, since you entered the US using your US passport. What you need to do is tell the airline employee that you are a US/Thai dual national and therefore it needs to be inputed in their airline computer that you are a US citizen leaving the US. They made this mistake with my daughter and I was lucky to catch it and they were nice enough to re-input the correct data into their computer.

I really don't know if this would have caused a problem with immigration, but why take the chance?

I wonder if that would cause a problem. I think the US uses the information from the airlines to keep track of who leaves.

I know that airlines are also required to submit a list of who is on their airplanes that are arriving in the US. I wonder how that would affect a person that uses one passport to checkin, and then another passport to clear customs in the US?

[samran]

One thing that I have posted on TV in the past, and is important to note, when you leave the US nobody on the US side will ask for your US passport. However, the airline will ask you for proof that you can enter Thailand legally and if you just show them your Thai passport without saying anything else, they will input into the computer that you are a Thai leaving the US. This may cause confusion later, since you entered the US using your US passport. What you need to do is tell the airline employee that you are a US/Thai dual national and therefore it needs to be inputed in their airline computer that you are a US citizen leaving the US. They made this mistake with my daughter and I was lucky to catch it and they were nice enough to re-input the correct data into their computer.

I really don't know if this would have caused a problem with immigration, but why take the chance?

I wonder if that would cause a problem. I think the US uses the information from the airlines to keep track of who leaves.

I know that airlines are also required to submit a list of who is on their airplanes that are arriving in the US. I wonder how that would affect a person that uses one passport to checkin, and then another passport to clear customs in the US?

you'll be using the same passport.

Thai/Western dual nationals will show both passports at airline check in.

The Thai passport tells the check in staff to give the person a departure card, so they can depart Thailand on the Thai passport.

However the airline staff will input the western passport details into the "system" and uses the western passport as evidence that the dual national does not need a visa in advance of travelling.

[haadyai]

It seems most of you suggest to use Thai passport.

However, my concern is what if the immigration / passport control when exiting Thailand ask me for a proof to enter the US, what should I do?

As I said, in Feb 2007 I travelled with Thai passport and my green card and the immigration officer somehow asked for a proof to enter the US. At the time I showed my green card. So I don't know I will get the same guy who might ask for a proof to enter the US.

What's the disadvantage of using US passport in Thailand anyways?

Thanks.

[Priceless]

It seems most of you suggest to use Thai passport.

However, my concern is what if the immigration / passport control when exiting Thailand ask me for a proof to enter the US, what should I do?

As I said, in Feb 2007 I travelled with Thai passport and my green card and the immigration officer somehow asked for a proof to enter the US. At the time I showed my green card. So I don't know I will get the same guy who might ask for a proof to enter the US.

What's the disadvantage of using US passport in Thailand anyways?

Thanks.

What's your worry, it is perfectly legal for a Thai citizen to have dual citizenships. If Thai immigration ask you for proof that you can legally enter the US, show them your US passport.

/ Priceless

[jstumbo]

...What's the disadvantage of using US passport in Thailand anyways?

Thanks.

You would be entitled to the same restrictions as any other US citizen. You could stay for 30 days on a visa exempt entry, and if you wanted to stay in Thailand any longer, you would need either a visa, or make a border run to another country before the 30 days is up.

[lopburi3]

They would not have to make a border run as they could easily extend there stay but it would be a visit to immigration and extra paperwork.

[Old Man River]

One thing that I have posted on TV in the past, and is important to note, when you leave the US nobody on the US side will ask for your US passport. However, the airline will ask you for proof that you can enter Thailand legally and if you just show them your Thai passport without saying anything else, they will input into the computer that you are a Thai leaving the US. This may cause confusion later, since you entered the US using your US passport. What you need to do is tell the airline employee that you are a US/Thai dual national and therefore it needs to be inputed in their airline computer that you are a US citizen leaving the US. They made this mistake with my daughter and I was lucky to catch it and they were nice enough to re-input the correct data into their computer.

I really don't know if this would have caused a problem with immigration, but why take the chance?

I wonder if that would cause a problem. I think the US uses the information from the airlines to keep track of who leaves.

I know that airlines are also required to submit a list of who is on their airplanes that are arriving in the US. I wonder how that would affect a person that uses one passport to checkin, and then another passport to clear customs in the US?

It probably would be a problem as in retrospect, I think you are right that US Immigration would use data from the outgoing carrier since, unlike other countries such as Thailand, the US authorities don't require US citizens to clear Immigration (or Customs) when leaving the US. The only data that they have to show who leaves the US is from the outgoing carrier.

To summarize to the OP, since my family are Thai/US dual nationals and we have done this for years:

Leave and enter Thailand with the Thai passport. I realize the Thai passport will show you leaving Thailand, flying in circles and then returning to Thailand without any other immigration stamps in the Thai passport, but most of the times immigration will understand and won't ask. It isn't a big deal if they do ask, but what some Thai duals do to avoid a Thai passport that does not show any foreign entry stamps is to use their Thai passports when traveling in Asia. It isn't a big deal if you never use the Thai passport elsewhere as it can be explained, but sometimes it is better to not have to explain.

When entering the US, you must use your US passport. That is the law. When leaving the US, you will not be required to exit through immigration (nor customs). What will happen is that the airline employee (outgoing carrier) will input data into their computer. At this point, don't make the mistake I did by showing them your Thai passport only as validation that you don't need a re-entry permit into Thailand. If you do this, the airline employee won't know and will input into the computer that you are not a US national leaving the US, but a Thai national leaving the US. Hence, as Samran has suggested, when going out of the US and into Thailand, although not required and not asked for, best to show the US airline employee both passports to make sure they input the data correctly.

[Old Man River]

It seems most of you suggest to use Thai passport.

However, my concern is what if the immigration / passport control when exiting Thailand ask me for a proof to enter the US, what should I do?

As I said, in Feb 2007 I travelled with Thai passport and my green card and the immigration officer somehow asked for a proof to enter the US. At the time I showed my green card. So I don't know I will get the same guy who might ask for a proof to enter the US.

What's the disadvantage of using US passport in Thailand anyways?

Thanks.

Having been there, I understand your concerns on both sides of the pond. When you enter Thailand, after showing your Thai passport you won't be asked to produce any other passport. As I have just responded elsewhere, once you go in and out of Thailand several times with your Thai passport, you may be asked why you don't go anywhere as your Thai passport won't show any foreign immigration entry stamps. As explained, best to use your Thai passport someplace (but of course not in the US as you need to use your US passport in the US). This avoids any possible questions as to why you leave Thailand and don't go anywhere (but its OK if you don't do this, just sometimes more convenient).

When you leave Thailand, you will have to clear immigration (the US doesn't require this from their side). Here, when asked by a Thai immigration officer, by all means show them your US passport. You will not be the only dual national this immigration officer has ever seen. If it is, then this officer will be very young and will just ask the officer next to them. If one time it was a green card and the next time a passport it won't make a difference to Thai immigration at all. They will just acknowledge that you are now a US citizen where before you were a resident. Not an issue.

Since you are now a US citizen and not a US resident, if you haven't already done so in the US, go to the US Embassy in Thailand and surrender your Green Card. They will report that it has been surrendered. This way you are covered in case it is later lost or stolen.

[5246jlg]

Thanks everyone for the reponses, as I said we have been pondering this for some time. Very relieved we do not have to do the fly to Laos thing before the Mrs. can leave Thailand. Can't wait to get the US citizenship out of the way and get back to CM and pick up our life where we left off!!

5246jlg

[JimGant]

What's the disadvantage of using US passport in Thailand anyways?

None, if you're only planning to visit for 30 days or less. For longer, as Lop says, you'll need to get an extension -- and as a Thai national, you can get a one-year extension no sweaty da. But, that involves time, 1900 baht, and would require 90-day reporting (if you stay that long).

So, if you're visiting for over 30 days, entering on your Thai passport would seem to be a no-brainer.....

[MrSnrang]

I have Thai/American citizenship but never got a thai passport.

So I would leave Thailand on my US passport? So I would still have to keep a valid visa then?

[Maestro]

You must leave Thailand with the same passport with which you entered the country.

After entering Thailand on your US passport, you can get an annual extension of stay by showing proof of you Thai nationality. See Royal Thai Police Order No. 606/2549, paragraph 22.

--

Maestro

[Wildebeest]

What about the USA immigration? What happens when you come back to the states with no chops in your passport? Stupid question but are USA citizens allowed dual citizianship? I always thought this was a no no???

[Maestro]

Yes, US nationals are allowed dual citizenship. A US citizen holding US and Thai passports, leaving the US on his US passport, entering and leaving Thailand on his Thai passport and then entering the US on his US passport will have no problem when returning to the US without Thai entry and exit stamps in his US passport.

--

Maestro

[phuketrichard]

...BTW, any Thai/American dual citizen ever renew Thai passport in the US? Any risk to do it? My Thai passport is still valid for a couple years but just wonder what I should do when the time comes.

Thanks.

My daughter is Thai/American and we renewed her thai passport in the Thai embassy in Wsshington dc. took 2 hours ONLY.

Note u can renew your thai passport once ( ie your issued a 5 year pp and can renew it for another 5 years) then u need to get a new one.

She enters thailand and leaves thailand on her thai passport, every where else we use her American one. When she flies back they ask to see her us pp BUT not at inmmigration.

[Crash999]

What about the USA immigration? What happens when you come back to the states with no chops in your passport? Stupid question but are USA citizens allowed dual citizianship? I always thought this was a no no???

No problem at all.

To make things simple- the airlines are only checking to see if you have a valid visa for the country you are flying to. In the US check in using your Thai pasport. When arriving use Thai. When checking in for the return flight use the US passport but when going through outbound immigration use Thai.

[Arkady]

The Thai Nationality Act doesn't expressly prohibit dual nationality but it does state clearly that use of another nationality by some one over the age of 20 constitutes grounds for revocation of Thai nationality. Dual nationality is specifically legal for those under the age of 20 but the intention is clearly that the law expects them to choose at that age and renounce the citizenship they don't wish to retain. The practice has been that dual nationality is tolerated by the Thai authorities for people of all ages, except dual Thai-Malaysian nationals in the deep South. There has been much talk about co-operation with Malaysia to stamp out dual nationality in that region. Dual nationality is strictly illegal in Malaysia but in reality the Malaysian authorities don't seem motivated to crack down on Thai-Malaysian dual nationals who are nearly all Malay Muslims because they feel, apparently with some justification, they get a raw deal in Thailand.

Thus it is definitely OK to show your kids' (under 20) US passports to Thai Immigration on the way out and friends with US-Thai dual national kids tell me that Immigration does frequently ask to see their other passports, if they are flying to the US without a US visa in their Thai passports. Since dual nationality is tolerated now, you have to decide whether you mind setting up a paper trail in case the Thai-Malaysian crack down ever escalates into a general crack down on duals or this happens suddenly for other reasons (e.g. war on international terror, a knee jerk reaction to a crime committed by a dual national etc). Bear in mind that the law allowing revocation of Thai nationality for those using another nationality already exists and can be implemented without notice. I know one Thai-American who prefers to play it safer by always flying to the US via Hong Kong which he enters and leaves on his Thai passport. There is still a bit of a paper trail as an astute observer would detect that he goes to Hong Kong and then disappears somewhere before coming back to Hong Kong and then flying back to Thailand. But since he cannot legally enter the US on his Thai passport, he feels this is the best option for him, as he at least not having his US passport clocked by Thai Immigration and airline offices in Bangkok every time. He is single and doesn't mind the added expense. He travels a lot in Asean too. So his Thai passport gets a lot of stamps.

I know other dual nationals who actually go and get visas when they travel direct to countries in, say, Europe that they could use they Western passport to travel to visa free. Some embassies gave the visas without fuss when they showed their other passport but European-Thai duals get no special treatment applying for US visas. The argument that they could go to the US on their other passport visa free cuts no ice at the US embassy. They have to produce exactly the same stuff as non-dual Thais or get knocked back but at least the US gives out 10 year visas. The Brits used to give Thai-British duals a right of abode stamp in their Thai passports, so they could legally travel to the UK on their Thai passports but I am not sure, if that is still available. But anyway the UK doesn't care how many nationalities its citizens have or what passports they use to travel to the UK.

[eddieold]

Yes, US nationals are allowed dual citizenship. A US citizen holding US and Thai passports, leaving the US on his US passport, entering and leaving Thailand on his Thai passport and then entering the US on his US passport will have no problem when returning to the US without Thai entry and exit stamps in his US passport.

--

Maestro

There is no reference to name on ticket in the replies. On leaving Thailand the first time as a tourist to travel to UK a girl will have a ticket in the name shown on her Thai (and probably only) passport. Stay in UK will be limited to 6 months (possibly shortly to be reduced to 3 months). If she marries a UK citizen when in UK she may follow convention and adopt her husband's surname. If subsequently she obtains UK citizenship it will be in her married name as will the UK passport she will be entitled to obtain. Depending which end she buys her tickets she will check in for one of the flights with passport and ticket in different names. Has this ever been a problem?

eddieold

[Maestro]

...The Thai Nationality Act doesn't expressly prohibit dual nationality but it does state clearly that use of another nationality by some one over the age of 20 constitutes grounds for revocation of Thai nationality

You are reading something into Section 14 of the Nationality Act that is not there.

Section 14. A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father and has acquired the nationality of his father according to the law on nationality of his father, or a person who acquires Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph 2 is required, if he desires to retain his other nationality, to make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years, according to such form and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

If, after consideration of the said intention, the Minister is of opinion that there is reasonable ground to believe that such person may acquire the nationality of his father or a foreign nationality, he shall grant permission, except in cases where Thailand is being engaged in armed conflict, or is in state of war, he may order the dispensation of any renunciation of Thai nationality.

See? Nothing about grounds for revocation of Thai nationality. The Thai national with dual nationality does not make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after turning 20 and there is no problem.

At any rate, I always read “if he wishes to retain his other nationality” as relating to his dealings with the Thai government institutions, ie if wants to use benefits that his other nationality would give him in registering a business in Thailand, etc.

--

Maestro