Australian Aged Pension

[Groove]

12 hours ago, LosLobo said:

I can see a scenario, with the current low exchange rate in Thailand, where the scheme could be attractive to a lot of expats, keen on repatriation, who only have enough funds to just purchase a house in Oz.

 

They could return home from overseas to claim residency, the aged pension and/or supplements and purchase a home.

 

This scheme could allow them to have their own home, get the full pension (coz all their assets are now in the family home) and then supplement it with payments from a Govt reverse mortgage.

 

Though a lower interest rate would make it more attractive!

 

 

Doesn't a reverse mortgage mean, that if you keep on receiving this extra money? Then the government eventually ends up owning ones home? Be careful, as there's method behind they're madness. 

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

Has anyone on a pension ever been asked for an update of income by Centrelink? I ask because in 9 years of living in Thailand Centrelink has never asked me if my financial circumstances have changed, the pension has been paid into my Aussie bank regularly every month with no questions asked. Is this normal?

The onus is on the pension recipient to notify Centrelink within 14 days of any change in circumstances.

 

That being said super and managed funds automatically notify Centrelink every March and September.

 

If you look online thru MyGov you can see the balances of all of your assets and they can be updated.

 

Usually you are not able to update super and managed fund balances.

[LosLobo]

14 minutes ago, Groove said:

Doesn't a reverse mortgage mean, that if you keep on receiving this extra money? Then the government eventually ends up owning ones home? Be careful, as there's method behind they're madness. 

The maximum loan is based on age, for a 70 year old it's about 30% of the value of the property.

 

With 5% interest over 20 years the amount owing would be more than 60% of the current value of the property.

 

The upside is that the interest charges would partially be offset by the increase in capital value of the property over time.

 

[Brer]

4 hours ago, LosLobo said:

The onus is on the pension recipient to notify Centrelink within 14 days of any change in circumstances.

 

That being said super and managed funds automatically notify Centrelink every March and September.

 

If you look online thru MyGov you can see the balances of all of your assets and they can be updated.

 

Usually you are not able to update super and managed fund balances.

I held cash in a Thai bank and I pulled out a large sum to purchase a car and also transferred money out of my Australian bank to purchase some other items which I also termed assets I then notified Centrelink. 

My cash on hand therefore would drop and therefore hopefully my miserly pension increases. It’s wait and see time now as the adjustments I made on My Gov state Centrelink will contact me, so it might be beneficial to notify CL of your changed circumstances if your not on the full rate of pension.

[LosLobo]

39 minutes ago, Brer said:

I held cash in a Thai bank and I pulled out a large sum to purchase a car and also transferred money out of my Australian bank to purchase some other items which I also termed assets I then notified Centrelink. 

My cash on hand therefore would drop and therefore hopefully my miserly pension increases. It’s wait and see time now as the adjustments I made on My Gov state Centrelink will contact me, so it might be beneficial to notify CL of your changed circumstances if your not on the full rate of pension.

Yes, if your part pension benefits are paid by the income test, reducing your financial assets (which are subject to deeming) by buying cars etc could increase your pension.

 

Also the moment that you drive out of the show room, the market value of your new car drops decreasing your non financial assets and also your overall assets. ????

 

[tropo]

Perhaps someone has already mentioned this earlier on the thread, but the information I see on the government website indicates as follows:

 

1. Anyone born after Jan 1, 1957 will receive the pension at age 67 (the new starting age for everyone after 2023). 

2. After 26 weeks abroad, the Old Age Pension will be reduced according to the number of years one has lived in Australia since age 20, by the fraction (years in Australia)/35. For example, if you've lived in Australia for 20 years since age 20, then you'll received 20/35ths of the full pension AFTER 26 weeks abroad. You will have had to live in Australia 35 years total to get the full pension while abroad (after the 1st 26 weeks). If you live in Australia, you'll need an accumulated 10 years to get the full pension, with at least one period of 5 continuous years within the 10 years.

 

So according to my interpretation of this, you can go overseas for less that 26 weeks without it affecting your pension, but the question is, do they calculate weeks overseas per year, or does the clock reset as soon as you return?

 

If I am wrong about this, don't hesitate to correct me.

[LosLobo]

5 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

I think it is per calendar year

I disagree!

 

Centrelink states the rule for the Aged Pension is : "When you leave Australia for more than 26 weeks." 

 

I would consider multiple trips of less than 26 weeks each in the same calendar year would comply with this edict. 

 

Centrelink is usually quiet specific when dealing with the calendar year limits, as in the Disability Support Pension with 4 weeks travel in any 12 month period.

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/topics/payments-while-outside-australia/31226

 

[tropo]

11 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

I doubt your starting age of 87 is correct, I know the government wants to save funds, but think you mean 67 years of age

I think it is per calendar year

 

Yes, a typo, definitely 67. 67 is the age set for all by 2023.

[CharlieH]

3 minutes ago, tropo said:

Yes, a typo, definitely 67. 67 is the age set for all by 2023.

Post edited and corrected as requested. The post responding pointing out the error has been removed.

[scorecard]

On another slant, I'm trying to get some clear answers on the following items:

 

- I am 74 male, born in OZ lived full-time in OZ til near 50th birthday moved to Thailand to take up good job opportunity.

 

Today I spoke to a CL lady in the Hobart office, she said I would have to return for 2 years to get full portability but this leaves me with several more questions:

 

-Does that actually mean 2 years to re-establish residency and approval for the OAP,  then 2 more years actually receiving it to get full permanent portability? Or what?

 

- She mentioned that it's possible to return to OZ and get the OAP started then leave OZ for short breaks or even leave / return to Thailand 2 full years in one block of time but of course quickly after leaving OZ the OAP payments would stop? Can other members put me straight on these points please.

 

- What I didn't ask is whether on return to OZ do I have to establish a home (buy or a rental agreement), electric bills in own name etc., all with documentary proof before being able to return to Thailand and sit it out for 2 years, and also pay rent and utilities on the house, apartment etc., for the 2 years and would that all be checked from time to time by Cl?

 

Or could I stay in a not too expensive hotel at first (perhaps with a room rental agreement rather than hotel booking) then when i return to Thailand check-out of the hotel and check-in again months later or perhaps never? 

 

Or perhaps find a hotel prepared to do a long-term room rental agreement at a cheap rate and with monthly electric bills etc., issued by the hotel to me and all paid by me by credit card. But perhaps in reality whilst I'm not there the hotel accepts other guest bookings?

 

Thanks.

[watcharacters]

On 5/20/2019 at 2:06 PM, Sparkles said:

I told then about the 800,00 baht, fix term deposit, is compulsory for visa extension reasons .In $A terms thats very little money.

 

 

I'm surprised you say this.   It's a lot in any currency to me.

 

[Salerno]

44 minutes ago, scorecard said:

-Does that actually mean 2 years to re-establish residency and approval for the OAP,  then 2 more years actually receiving it to get full permanent portability? Or what?

You can apply for Pension on the day you return, if you complete the application correctly (as in supply all info/docs) and are eligible it will be back dated to the application date. You then need to convince them you are back for good and after two years you can "have a change of heart" and should be good to go on the portability front.

 

44 minutes ago, scorecard said:

She mentioned that it's possible to return to OZ and get the OAP started then leave OZ for short breaks or even leave / return to Thailand 2 full years in one block of time but of course quickly after leaving OZ the OAP payments would stop? Can other members put me straight on these points please.

You can take "short breaks" without too much damage to the two year waiting period for portability. After 6 weeks you will lose the extra payments (rent allowance etc.). If you go for too long that could put you in bad stead for portability i.e. they can decide you only returned to get the pension and leave again in which case you could lose the whole pension.

 

44 minutes ago, scorecard said:

What I didn't ask is whether on return to OZ do I have to establish a home (buy or a rental agreement), electric bills in own name etc., all with documentary proof before being able to return to Thailand and sit it out for 2 years, and also pay rent and utilities on the house, apartment etc., for the 2 years and would that all be checked from time to time by Cl?

You need to convince them you are back for good so yes, you need to establish yourself as if you are in fact back for good. You can't come back, get granted the pension and then "return to Thailand and sit it out for 2 years". If you do so, you will lose the pension; if you leaver for an extended time they will know.

 

[scorecard]

5 minutes ago, Salerno said:

You can apply for Pension on the day you return, if you complete the application correctly (as in supply all info/docs) and are eligible it will be back dated to the application date. You then need to convince them you are back for good and after two years you can "have a change of heart" and should be good to go on the portability front.

 

You can take "short breaks" without too much damage to the two year waiting period for portability. After 6 weeks you will lose the extra payments (rent allowance etc.). If you go for too long that could put you in bad stead for portability i.e. they can decide you only returned to get the pension and leave again in which case you could lose the whole pension.

 

You need to convince them you are back for good so yes, you need to establish yourself as if you are in fact back for good. You can't come back, get granted the pension and then "return to Thailand and sit it out for 2 years". If you do so, you will lose the pension; if you leaver for an extended time they will know.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

When the CL lady said your can leave for 2 years; the counting of time towards the 2 years needed for portability continues on with no problem I was rather taken by surprise and I said 'really', her response was that it was quite acceptable, but keeping in mind of course that pension payments / allowance would be suspended until the 2 years needed for portability was up. 

[LosLobo]

24 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Thanks for your reply.

 

When the CL lady said your can leave for 2 years; the counting of time towards the 2 years needed for portability continues on with no problem I was rather taken by surprise and I said 'really', her response was that it was quite acceptable, but keeping in mind of course that pension payments / allowance would be suspended until the 2 years needed for portability was up. 

The two year qualification period for pension portability cannot be served in absentia in Thailand paid or unpaid.

 

The pension will only be paid to persons who have genuinely returned to Oz to resume residency permanently.

 

By virtue of applying for the pension then departing for two years the person obviously has no intention of being a permanent resident of Oz.

 

If the OP's facts are correct, I would suggest that the C/L representative doesn't know what she is talking about.

[Salerno]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

... her response was that it was quite acceptable, but keeping in mind of course that pension payments / allowance would be suspended until the 2 years needed for portability was up.

I'd get a second opinion, perhaps call again and see if you get the same answer. I certainly wouldn't rely on that, it would go against everything I have ever read on the subject including the government website:

 

Quote

Recipients who return to Australia just to renew their portability period would not satisfy the 'residing in Australia' criterion and would not qualify for continued payment.

 

 

[scorecard]

Thanks for all comments.

[scorecard]

59 minutes ago, Salerno said:

I'd get a second opinion, perhaps call again and see if you get the same answer. I certainly wouldn't rely on that, it would go against everything I have ever read on the subject including the government website:

 

 

 

I will call again, as you and others have mentioned the comments from the CL lady are way out of alignment with other comments I've read and my own searching of the CL site.

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, Salerno said:

You can apply for Pension on the day you return, if you complete the application correctly (as in supply all info/docs) and are eligible it will be back dated to the application date. You then need to convince them you are back for good and after two years you can "have a change of heart" and should be good to go on the portability front.

 

You can take "short breaks" without too much damage to the two year waiting period for portability. After 6 weeks you will lose the extra payments (rent allowance etc.). If you go for too long that could put you in bad stead for portability i.e. they can decide you only returned to get the pension and leave again in which case you could lose the whole pension.

 

You need to convince them you are back for good so yes, you need to establish yourself as if you are in fact back for good. You can't come back, get granted the pension and then "return to Thailand and sit it out for 2 years". If you do so, you will lose the pension; if you leaver for an extended time they will know.

 

'...convince them convince them you are back for good...' Does that still include buying a house / condo whatever and / or renting a house or apartment with a long-term rental agreement showing your name, plus proof of electricity / utility bills etc., in your name?

 

Or would a 'permanent' room in a hotel, perhaps documented as a 'room rental agreement' in my name with all utilities included in the room rental agreement, rather than a hotel booking, be accepted?

 

  

[LosLobo]

9 hours ago, scorecard said:

'...convince them convince them you are back for good...' Does that still include buying a house / condo whatever and / or renting a house or apartment with a long-term rental agreement showing your name, plus proof of electricity / utility bills etc., in your name?

 

Or would a 'permanent' room in a hotel, perhaps documented as a 'room rental agreement' in my name with all utilities included in the room rental agreement, rather than a hotel booking, be accepted?

 

  

When you return and step off the plane although you may be eligible to apply for the pension you
 obviously will not yet have all the trappings of a permanent resident (there is no hard and fast rule as to what these are) in place.

 

As part of the pension approval process you will be required to sign a declaration that you have forsaken your previous residence in Thailand and now intend becoming a genuine permanent resident of Oz.

 

Be aware false statements may be deemed fraud and can attract serious gaol time.

 

[rhodie]

13 hours ago, scorecard said:

'...convince them convince them you are back for good...' Does that still include buying a house / condo whatever and / or renting a house or apartment with a long-term rental agreement showing your name, plus proof of electricity / utility bills etc., in your name?

 

Or would a 'permanent' room in a hotel, perhaps documented as a 'room rental agreement' in my name with all utilities included in the room rental agreement, rather than a hotel booking, be accepted?

 

  

You have to be in Australia to apply. But, because you have lived in another country your pension only becomes portable once you have stayed for 2 years when you receive your pension. After the 2 years you can relocate. As an example, I have a friend who lived in the Philippines and returned to OZ when he was 63. He had to go on Newstart until he was 65 when he applied for the pension. As soon as it was granted, he was free to return to the PI as he had served the 2 year period to make his pension portable. You would be on the pension for the 2 years.

 

I assume in your case you will not have 35 years in Australia between the ages of 16 and 65/67, or in your case 50, so your pension will be reduced after 6 months out of the country using the formula years in OZ over 35. In his case he had 24 years, so after 6 months his pension reduces by about a third (24/35). If you return every 6 months for a week as he does, he loses nothing except the small supplements. 6 month clock starts each entry back to Australia.

 

Good luck.

[Salerno]

14 hours ago, scorecard said:

Does that still include buying a house / condo whatever and / or renting a house or apartment with a long-term rental agreement showing your name, plus proof of electricity / utility bills etc., in your name?

 

Or would a 'permanent' room in a hotel, perhaps documented as a 'room rental agreement' in my name with all utilities included in the room rental agreement, rather than a hotel booking, be accepted?

Rental is good enough, or even buy a combi and hit the road. A permanent room in a hotel would be unusual IMO (although as a kid I wanted to live in a hotel "when I grew up" ????).

[RJRS1301]

5 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Rental is good enough, or even buy a combi and hit the road. A permanent room in a hotel would be unusual IMO (although as a kid I wanted to live in a hotel "when I grew up" ????).

Also need to remember that Centrelink and Immigration computers linked now, and Centrelink notified each time you leave the country

[scorecard]

Thanks, the truth is that I have a number of Vietnam conflict relates disabilities and I receive the DVA disability pension at the highest rate. I've explored many angles to try to get the DVA service pension, I am entitled, over the age point (60) and under the income / assets threshold, but I fail the residency factor. I've lived for many years in a wheelchair or in bed and under the dedicated 24 hr care care of my Thai family and I couldn't live /survive totally alone. The DVA give zero flexibility for disabilities (including war related disabilities) nor where there is a need for 24 hr support.

 

Recently, again a DVA officer encouraged me to try for the OAP saying that there are more flexibilities in regard to residency. 

 

Ultimately I believe I could survive / tough it out for the 2 years by living in a hotel but perhaps under a room rental agreement and with a pre-arranged personal support as needed by a call to the hotel lobby but of course paid for as used.

 

But my concern with this approach is that centrelink will say that it doesn't look like a serious approach / attempt at full re-establishment. So I'm interested in any responses from others before I put this concept to the Centrelink International Age team in Hobart.

 

All constructive comments appreciated. 

[scorecard]

19 minutes ago, rhodie said:

You have to be in Australia to apply. But, because you have lived in another country your pension only becomes portable once you have stayed for 2 years when you receive your pension. After the 2 years you can relocate. As an example, I have a friend who lived in the Philippines and returned to OZ when he was 63. He had to go on Newstart until he was 65 when he applied for the pension. As soon as it was granted, he was free to return to the PI as he had served the 2 year period to make his pension portable. You would be on the pension for the 2 years.

 

I assume in your case you will not have 35 years in Australia between the ages of 16 and 65/67, or in your case 50, so your pension will be reduced after 6 months out of the country using the formula years in OZ over 35. In his case he had 24 years, so after 6 months his pension reduces by about a third (24/35). If you return every 6 months for a week as he does, he loses nothing except the small supplements. 6 month clock starts each entry back to Australia.

 

Good luck.

 

16 + 35 = 51.

 

My understanding is for much old folks an older equation is still valid (I was born 1945, now 74).

 

[RJRS1301]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Thanks, the truth is that I have a number of Vietnam conflict relates disabilities and I receive the DVA disability pension at the highest rate. I've explored many angles to try to get the DVA service pension, I am entitled, over the age point (60) and under the income / assets threshold, but I fail the residency factor. I've lived for many years in a wheelchair or in bed and under the dedicated 24 hr care care of my Thai family and I couldn't live /survive totally alone. The DVA give zero flexibility for disabilities (including war related disabilities) nor where there is a need for 24 hr support.

 

Recently, again a DVA officer encouraged me to try for the OAP saying that there are more flexibilities in regard to residency. 

 

Ultimately I believe I could survive / tough it out for the 2 years by living in a hotel but perhaps under a room rental agreement and with a pre-arranged personal support as needed by a call to the hotel lobby but of course paid for as used.

 

But my concern with this approach is that centrelink will say that it doesn't look like a serious approach / attempt at full re-establishment. So I'm interested in any responses from others before I put this concept to the Centrelink International Age team in Hobart.

 

All constructive comments appreciated. 

I cannot think of any establishment which provides such care on the east coast.

You would need to have an ACAT Assessment done for residential aged care, ACAT Assessments take about 8 weeks after referral through  MY Aged Care, then a place has to be found, this all needs a fair amount of money if you are not receiving benefits.

 

[Salerno]

30 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Also need to remember that Centrelink and Immigration computers linked now, and Centrelink notified each time you leave the country

Yes, mentioned that previously in a round about way. Reality is, we have no privacy nowadays.

[Salerno]

24 minutes ago, scorecard said:

But my concern with this approach is that centrelink will say that it doesn't look like a serious approach / attempt at full re-establishment.

Given your circumstances it may well be worth a shot. It doesn't sound so "unusual" to me now with the extra background info, still somewhat unusual but the support supplied with living in a hotel or a serviced apartment would be comforting I would imagine. No idea how Centre Link would view it but worth asking.

[Sparkles]

21 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

I'm surprised you say this.   It's a lot in any currency to me.

 

Not if that's all you have & no real estate,savings or income producing assets Toss in once over 70 health insurance is not available in Thailand and Medicare help is a distant memory

[scorecard]

50 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Given your circumstances it may well be worth a shot. It doesn't sound so "unusual" to me now with the extra background info, still somewhat unusual but the support supplied with living in a hotel or a serviced apartment would be comforting I would imagine. No idea how Centre Link would view it but worth asking.

Thanks, of course the only way to know ultimately is to try it, and I have contacted 3 hotels in the outer suburbs but pleasant areas of Sydney and Melbourne, all were positive about the concept but of course I need to do more checking about what city would be least cost. But I'm guessing I could perhaps qualify for rent assistance.

 

Then there's the question of how many months in Oz then how many months in Thailand until the 2 years is up. I'm thinking 2 months OZ then 1 month Thai. Appreciate any comments this point thanks.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

Thanks, of course the only way to know ultimately is to try it, and I have contacted 3 hotels in the outer suburbs but pleasant areas of Sydney and Melbourne, all were positive about the concept but of course I need to do more checking about what city would be least cost. But I'm guessing I could perhaps qualify for rent assistance.

 

Then there's the question of how many months in Oz then how many months in Thailand until the 2 years is up. I'm thinking 2 months OZ then 1 month Thai. Appreciate any comments this point thanks.

I could be wrong, but I believe any time spent out of Australia during that 2 years has to be made up, ie if you spend 6 months away, then you will be doing 2 years and six months.