Australian Aged Pension

[SAFETY FIRST]

21 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Elementary school is not a term used in Australia.  Strange.  the plot thickens

Aaaah, now I understand. 

Yes, Aussie schools, primary school and high school 👍

 

Olmate is an impersonator, he's not an Aussie at all.

 

His comments are always unusual, very aggressive and hostile, no way he's an Aussie. 

 

Thanks KhunHeineken. 

[KhunHeineken]

23 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Aaaah, now I understand. 

Yes, Aussie schools, primary school and high school 👍

 

Olmate is an impersonator, he's not an Aussie at all.

 

His comments are always unusual, very aggressive and hostile, no way he's an Aussie. 

 

Thanks KhunHeineken. 

It was noted a little while ago there may have been a core group of trolls, or one troll with multiple usernames, possibly working for a website in competition to AN.  They basically shut down threads. 

 

A few of them have dropped of since being called out. 

 

They add no content, only troll.  Their purpose was to frustrate members to the point they get banned, so they go elsewhere. 

 

Olmate is still here, probably posting from his "mom"s" (yes, spelt the American way) basement, somewhere in the USA. 

[Olmate]

11 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

It was noted a little while ago there may have been a core group of trolls, or one troll with multiple usernames, possibly working for a website in competition to AN.  They basically shut down threads. 

 

A few of them have dropped of since being called out. 

 

They add no content, only troll.  Their purpose was to frustrate members to the point they get banned, so they go elsewhere. 

 

Olmate is still here, probably posting from his "mom"s" (yes, spelt the American way) basement, somewhere in the USA. 

WTF,the two lil Aussie poster posers, one sounds like a has been (maybe whso)dropout'  OTOH our mouthy man, the boomer basher, playing red herring,( weird thats a pommie game). Playtime, recess,break,smoko,timeout, all done! Copulaters, lol, when your ready, come on down! 

[KhunHeineken]

On 6/8/2024 at 11:03 PM, Olmate said:

WTF,the two lil Aussie poster posers, one sounds like a has been (maybe whso)dropout'  OTOH our mouthy man, the boomer basher, playing red herring,( weird thats a pommie game). Playtime, recess,break,smoko,timeout, all done! Copulaters, lol, when your ready, come on down! 

I can see you have been on the 9am Leo yet again.  Your post is incoherent. 

 

Do you have any content to add to the topic "Australian Aged Pension?" 

[Bvor]

On 6/8/2024 at 4:32 PM, 4MyEgo said:

I note in the link that you provided, that the Seniors and Pensioners Tax Offset (SAPTO) for a single will increase to $35,813 before one starts paying any tax on their Age Pension and any additional income vs the previous amount of $32,279.

cos of SAPTO i don't pay any tax on my OAP + bank interest income. will Thailand tax me re their "proposed changes" if i have tax residency status or will DTA still be applicable?

[KhunHeineken]

7 hours ago, Bvor said:

will Thailand tax me re their "proposed changes"

More information needed on your personal circumstances. 

[Bvor]

6 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

More information needed on your personal circumstances. 

My only income is the oz OAP + bank interest which get credited to my oz bank account. I use Wise to transfer monies from my oz bank account to my Bangkok Bank Account for day to day expenses when in thailand - 220 days last year via visa exempts and tourist visa's.

My Income tax due in oz gets "paid" via SAPTO - not by me personally (see attached). So if i am declared a thai tax resident how might Thailand Revenue Department rule on SAPTO tax "paid" in oz on monies transferred to Thailand. Will the oz DTA deem SAPTO to be tax "paid" on my income.

Sorry i can't be more clearer with my query, its all a bit too murky for me. Guess i can wait and see what actually gets implemented.

Staying under the thai 180 day rule probably the way to go for me as it will also satisfy oz tax residency 183 day rule implications.         

 

[Olmate]

4 hours ago, Bvor said:

My only income is the oz OAP + bank interest which get credited to my oz bank account. I use Wise to transfer monies from my oz bank account to my Bangkok Bank Account for day to day expenses when in thailand - 220 days last year via visa exempts and tourist visa's.

My Income tax due in oz gets "paid" via SAPTO - not by me personally (see attached). So if i am declared a thai tax resident how might Thailand Revenue Department rule on SAPTO tax "paid" in oz on monies transferred to Thailand. Will the oz DTA deem SAPTO to be tax "paid" on my income.

Sorry i can't be more clearer with my query, its all a bit too murky for me. Guess i can wait and see what actually gets implemented.

Staying under the thai 180 day rule probably the way to go for me as it will also satisfy oz tax residency 183 day rule implications.         

 

Prob not best idea to flashyour splash of cash on this forum, let alone that guy there! 

[Olmate]

20 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I can see you have been on the 9am Leo yet again.  Your post is incoherent. 

 

Do you have any content to add to the topic "Australian Aged Pension?" 

'Nothing further to add your worship'! Except of course my mandatory dig at DH, KH, (sounds like a Holden model),discontinued as it turned  out to be a lemon. Too easy this week! 

[Bvor]

58 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Prob not best idea to flashyour splash of cash on this forum, let alone that guy there! 

me thinks no problem as not much has been disclosed re my specific finances and if KH can assist me re my SAPTO tax query thats fine too as would be any assistance from you and anyone else as well.

cheers

[4MyEgo]

On 6/11/2024 at 6:08 PM, Bvor said:

cos of SAPTO i don't pay any tax on my OAP + bank interest income. will Thailand tax me re their "proposed changes" if i have tax residency status or will DTA still be applicable?

 

I would suggest that the DTA that has been in use since 1989 will stand, i.e. that they won't tax you, however someone else will tell you the DTA is changing, with nothing to support his statements.

 

Just carry on enjoying your time in Thailand and let the governments around the world sort out the mess that they created by overprinting money, now wanting it back to try to get their FU sorted.

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, Bvor said:

me thinks no problem as not much has been disclosed re my specific finances and if KH can assist me re my SAPTO tax query thats fine too as would be any assistance from you and anyone else as well.

cheers

 

Avoid any assistance from HK at all costs in my opinion as he has no idea what he is talking about.

 

Fortunately for me, after arguing with him many times on this topic, we almost lost this topic, so I decided it easier to block him, and that was the best decision that I made, not only for me, but for the topic, albeit I see he's still at it, i.e. he just can't let go, so anyone who takes his advice, deserves what they asked for IMO.

[Bvor]

18 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I would suggest that the DTA that has been in use since 1989 will stand, i.e. that they won't tax you

i tend to agree.

however am interested in having some clarity on the reason why LOS won't tax the money i transfer to LOS ie tax already "covered" by SAPTO or other reason.

its really a moot point for me now that i intend to stay under LOS 180 day rule so i should let it go.

[4MyEgo]

17 hours ago, Bvor said:

however am interested in having some clarity on the reason why LOS won't tax the money i transfer to LOS ie tax already "covered" by SAPTO or other reason.

its really a moot point for me now that i intend to stay under LOS 180 day rule so i should let it go.

 

In my opinion, it's been too hard to tax foreigners in the past, so they stick with what they know, that, and of course, it could be potentially stirring up a hornets nest if they did start taxing Expats as we already contribute to the Thai economy.

 

They are probably seeing if they can get Expats to file for TIN's & lodge tax returns by circulating news articles to spook a few, can't catch them all, so catch what you can (the so called honest ones) who want to comply to what I believe is a ridiculous potential revenue raiser.

 

I would, as I mentioned before, just keep enjoying Thailand for what it has to offer and don't worry about anything until they come knocking on your door, suffice to say, it's pointless worrying about something we have no control over.

[Bvor]

14 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

In my opinion

 

14 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

They are probably

and maybe you are right, can only wait and see how things pan out.

in my circumstances i'm ok to do 4 LOS stays <180 days per year and not be declared a LOS tax resident on some database.

cheers

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

In my opinion, it's been too hard to tax foreigners in the past, so they stick with what they know, that, and of course, it could be potentially stirring up a hornets nest if they did start taxing Expats as we already contribute to the Thai economy.

 

They are probably seeing if they can get Expats to file for TIN's & lodge tax returns by circulating news articles to spook a few, can't catch them all, so catch what you can (the so called honest ones) who want to comply to what I believe is a ridiculous potential revenue raiser.

 

I would, as I mentioned before, just keep enjoying Thailand for what it has to offer and don't worry about anything until they come knocking on your door, suffice to say, it's pointless worrying about something we have no control over.

 

Sure. And my best calculation is that I would pay about 650Baht a year personal Thai tax, but that all depends on:

 

- Only income is Old Age Pension from abroad, where how old age pension is not subject to tax.

- No other income.

- In Thailand all year.

- There's a double tax agreement but all efforts to get full details, as relevant to points immediately above, have been fruitless.

[Bvor]

25 minutes ago, scorecard said:

- Only income is Old Age Pension from abroad, where how old age pension is not subject to tax.

- No other income.

- In Thailand all year.

- There's a double tax agreement but all efforts to get full details, as relevant to points immediately above, have been fruitless.

FYI Pattaya City Expats Club re income not subject to tax and DTA albeit no determination.

The guest speaker then moved on to the Revenue’s suggestion that, from January 2025, tax residents’ worldwide income, whether remitted to Thailand or not, would be taxable. However, this plan needed the approval of Thailand’s parliament which had not yet even begun to consider the notion. Answering a series of member’s questions Mr Carden said 61 double-taxation treaties would be important in the hypothetical scenario – although the detail varied one agreement from another. Many issues would need to be addressed, for example whether income deemed to be tax-free in the home country would be considered tax-free here. The example given was UK premium bonds whose winnings are specifically exempt from taxation under UK law.

[KhunHeineken]

On 6/11/2024 at 11:29 PM, Bvor said:

My only income is the oz OAP + bank interest which get credited to my oz bank account. I use Wise to transfer monies from my oz bank account to my Bangkok Bank Account for day to day expenses when in thailand - 220 days last year via visa exempts and tourist visa's.

My Income tax due in oz gets "paid" via SAPTO - not by me personally (see attached). So if i am declared a thai tax resident how might Thailand Revenue Department rule on SAPTO tax "paid" in oz on monies transferred to Thailand. Will the oz DTA deem SAPTO to be tax "paid" on my income.

Sorry i can't be more clearer with my query, its all a bit too murky for me. Guess i can wait and see what actually gets implemented.

Staying under the thai 180 day rule probably the way to go for me as it will also satisfy oz tax residency 183 day rule implications.         

 

Your questions require complex and debatable answers.  There's pages and pages, over months and months, with link after link about the current situation, and the proposed changes.

 

Since you are late to the party, I'll try to summarize it for you, with links, and also put forward conflicting views.  I will not touch on the Thai taxes, that's in another forum.

 

First, we start with the basics. 

 

Here's the resident of Australia for tax purposes tax brackets.

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/tax-rates-and-codes/tax-rates-australian-residents

 

Resident tax rates 2024–25

Taxable income

Tax on this income

0 – $18,200

Nil

$18,201 – $45,000

16c for each $1 over $18,200

$45,001 – $135,000

$4,288 plus 30c for each $1 over $45,000

$135,001 – $190,000

$31,288 plus 37c for each $1 over $135,000

$190,001 and over

$51,638 plus 45c for each $1 over $190,000

 

You will see the tax free threshold.  The pension, with some supplements, is over the tax free threshold, but with some concessions, no tax is paid.  

 

Here are the non resident of Australia tax rates.

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/tax-rates-and-codes/tax-rates-foreign-residents

 

 

Foreign resident tax rates 2024–25

Taxable income

Tax on this income

0 – $135,000

30c for each $1

$135,001 – $190,000

$40,500 plus 37c for each $1 over $135,000

$190,001 and over

$60,850 plus 45c for each $1 over $190,000

 

Of interest to me is, it has actually changed a little.  In any case, the point being, you can see there is no tax free threshold.  That's 30% from $0.

 

Now, currently, myself, and some friends, and I suggest many other Aussies, have enjoyed living in Thailand, and other countries, and not paid one cent in non resident tax.  That's because the current 90 year old tax laws around residency in Australia are based on where you are "domiciled."  

 

Dictionary meaning of domicile.

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/domicile

 

 

law

 

: a person's fixed, permanent, and principal home for legal purposes

 

I live in Thailand, but I have maintained a "domicile" in Australia, as well as business, family, and community ties.  These make it difficult for the ATO to prove I have no "intention" of returning to Australia to reside. 

 

Others, who have sold up everything in Australia, moved all their money to Thailand, and not maintained any community ties, would not be able to argue the same point.

 

However, currently, the ATO has no real way to differentiate between the two, so no "Dear John" letters from the ATO over the years, to any of us. 

 

These are the changes to the current 90 year laws that the previous Liberal government put forward, and Labor hasn't binned them.

 

https://treasury.gov.au/consultation/c2023-205344#:~:text=This measure was announced by,be an Australian tax resident.

 

"Under the Board’s proposed model, the primary test will be a simple ‘bright line’ test — a person who is physically present in Australia for 183 days or more in any income year will be an Australian tax resident. Individuals who do not meet the primary test will be subject to secondary tests that depend on a combination of physical presence and measurable, objective criteria."

 

The changes state if you are inside Australia for 183 days you are a tax resident, but that also means if you are outside of Australia for 6 months, which is most expats, you will be deemed a non resident for tax purposes. 

 

Here's the changes simplified by a random law firm.

 

https://hlb.com.au/tax-residency-changes-for-individuals/

 

If you are inside Australia for more than 45 days, but less than 183 days, there are some secondary tests that are not too difficult to meet, but some may have some difficultly meeting them.  Also, Labor has hinted at changing the 45 days to possibly 60, maybe 90. 

 

You will see that no where in the proposed changes does it mention exemptions, tax free thresholds, means testing etc.  

 

As you can see, rather than 90 year old laws based on maintaining a "domicile" and having an "intention" is going to be replace by a physical presence and time based model, similar to many other countries.

 

So, the main points of debate are:

 

Will immigration inform the ATO about the Australian citizens who have been outside of Australia for more than 183 days? 

 

Will the ATO then inform Centerlink?

 

Will Centerlink treat pensions / pensioners as non residents?

 

First of all, the pension is deemed an income.

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/income-deductions-offsets-and-records/income-you-must-declare/government-payments-and-allowances

 

"Australian Government payments, pensions and allowances are income amounts that you receive from a government agency."

 

Secondly, the pension is taxable.

 

"You must include taxable Australian Government pensions, payments and allowances in your tax return.

Taxable government payments, pensions and allowances include:

age pension."

 

This is the source of the debate.  Basically, the pension is an income, the pension is taxable, you are a non resident for tax purposes once you are outside of Australia for 183 days, there is no tax free threshold in the non resident tax brackets, there are no exemptions for pensions in the proposed changes. 

 

I added all these together and posted about it and the debate exploded.

 

Then comes the Double Tax Agreement between Australia and Thailand.  (DTA)  A DTA ensures the same money doesn't get taxed twice. 

 

The DTA has many articles, but Articles 18 and 19 deal with pensions. 

 

Here they are. 

 

Article 18

Pensions and annuities

1. Subject to the provisions of Article 19, pensions and annuities paid to a resident of one of the Contracting States shall be taxable only in that State.

2. The term "annuity" means a stated sum payable periodically at stated times during life or during a specified or ascertainable period of time under an obligation to make the payments in return for adequate and full consideration in money or money's worth.

 

Article 19

Government service

1. Remuneration (other than a pension) paid by one of the Contracting States or a political subdivision of that State or a local authority of that State to any individual in respect of services rendered in the discharge of governmental functions shall be taxable only in that State. However, such remuneration shall be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the services are rendered in that other State and the recipient is a resident of that other State who:

(a) is a citizen or national of that other State; or

(b) did not become a resident of that other State solely for the purpose of performing the services.

2. Any pension paid to an individual in respect of services rendered in the discharge of governmental functions to one of the Contracting States or a political subdivision of that State or a local authority of that State shall be taxable only in that State. Such pension shall, however, be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the recipient is a resident of, and a citizen or national of, that other State.

3. The provisions of paragraphs 1 and 2 shall not apply to remuneration or a pension in respect of services rendered in connection with any trade or business carried on by one of the Contracting States or a political subdivision of one of the States or a local authority of one of the States. In such a case, the provisions of Article 15, 16 or 18, as the case may be shall apply.

 

Many saw the first line in Article 18 and declared, as a retired expat pensioner living in Thailand, they will not be taxed. (remember, this debate arose prior to Thai's announcing their taxi/s)

 

You will see that Article 18 relies on the provisions of Article 19.  I wanted more information on these provisions, so thought more research was needed, and I still stand by that. 

 

The DTA Australia has with Thailand came into force in 1989.  It's 35 years old.  Think, pre mobile phone, pre internet, pre budget airlines etc etc.

 

Australia is expanding and updating it's DTA's with other countries.

 

Just one random article about it.  You can see there must be some truth to it because of the new DTA with Iceland. 

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/australia/individual/foreign-tax-relief-and-tax-treaties

 

"The Australian government plans to enter into new and updated tax treaties in the coming years. The relatively recently signed treaty with Iceland has entered into force to apply from as early as 1 January 2024. A new treaty with Portugal was signed on 30 November 2023 (yet to enter into force)."

 

This was also of interest.

 

"Australia has also entered into bilateral agreements with a number of countries in relation to the exchange of information in relation to taxes."

 

Could Thailand be one of the countries exchanging "information?"  Who knows, but I would say probably yes. 

 

After reading Australia was updating its DTA's with countries, I looked for a more updated DTA Australia has, and found the DTA with Germany.  I did this to maybe gauge what a newer DTA with Thailand might look like.  The DTA with Germany is dated 2016.

 

Here it is.  Article 17 deals with pensions. 

 

https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2019-03/GermanyDTA.pdf

 

" Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs 1 and 2, benefits paid under the social security legislation of a Contracting State may also be taxed in that State but the tax so charged shall not exceed 15 per cent of the gross amount of the benefit. However, this paragraph shall not apply if the benefits were first paid before 1 January 2017"

 

Make of this what you will.

 

During the debate, there was conflicting information coming out of the ATO.

 

In this one, an ATO staff member says non resident tax will have to be paid on a pension.

 

https://community.ato.gov.au/s/question/a0J9s0000002ngF/p00172380

 

"As a foreign resident for tax purposes, you will pay income tax according to foreign resident rates. This means for all income under $180k, you'll pay 32.5c per dollar. You would only report and pay tax on your Australian-sourced income to us.

 

You'll likely be eligible for the seniors and pensioners tax offset (SAPTO) though, meaning you'll get a tax offset to help counter the tax payable. You don't have to be a resident for tax purposes to receive this."

 

And this one.

 

https://community.ato.gov.au/s/question/a0J9s000000O2y4/p00197245

 

"As a non-resident for tax purposes, we'll only tax you on the income you receive from Australia sources such as interest and your pension."

 

 

A member posted a screenshot, rather than a link, so I can't post it here, but it was on the 4th February in this thread.  The ATO staff member was Jim Quinn.  He stated the DTA mean no tax payable.  Check it out. 

 

So, you have some ATO staff saying tax is payable, and another ATO staff member saying it's not payable. 

 

So, that's the summary. 

 

I have shown the information in which I have based my opinions, comments, statements, calculations, predictions etc on. 

 

You can decide for yourself where you currently stand with the ATO, and where you may stand if / when the proposed changes are passed. 

 

I wouldn't like it, but I could do 45 days in Australia, but 90 days a year would be a real PITA.  I can easily meet the factor tests. 

 

If you are happy to do more than the 183 days per years in Australia, then you have nothing to worry about.  Just be sure to do 186 days in Australia so you don't go over 180 days in Thailand, and watch out for the leap years. 

 

After you have informed yourself of the above, you can then deal with Thailand's new tax/s, but only if you are going to do more than 180 days inside Thailand. 

 

The ground is shifting under the feet of expats, and the tax man is catch up with globalization. 

 

Good Luck with it. 

[Bvor]

58 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

After you have informed yourself of the above, you can then deal with Thailand's new tax/s, but only if you are going to do more than 180 days inside Thailand. 

have decided to do <180 days and not deal with LOS new taxes/TIN.

 

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

If you are happy to do more than the 183 days per years in Australia, then you have nothing to worry about.  Just be sure to do 186 days in Australia so you don't go over 180 days in Thailand, and watch out for the leap years. 

 have decided to do same.

thx for your summaries albeit my SAPTO "tax paid?" question still not clarified however not relevant to me anymore with my intended LOS/OZ swings.   

[Olmate]

On 6/12/2024 at 12:10 PM, Bvor said:

me thinks no problem as not much has been disclosed re my specific finances and if KH can assist me re my SAPTO tax query thats fine too as would be any assistance from you and anyone else as well.

cheers

There,s a Thai saying that fits that response perfectly!! 🙏

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Bvor said:

however not relevant to me anymore with my intended LOS/OZ swings.

Have you weighed up the cost against residing in Australia 186 days, versus a possible tax liability to Australia and / or Thailand, under the current laws, and the proposed new laws in both Australia and Thailand, in their worst case scenario? 

[Bvor]

1 minute ago, Olmate said:

There,s a Thai saying that fits that response perfectly!! 🙏

up to me......🙏

[Bvor]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

Have you weighed up

yes i have........... LOS tax would be very minimal but not so the beauracratic BS. Done my research re OAP,visa's, tax tables, DTA's etc as it applies to me. I have a life in OZ as well as LOS. Cost of 4 airfares per year is ok with me. Been doin visa exempts/tourist visas for approx 20 years with my LOS/OZ swings. Its my intention to remain an OZ tax resident and not be a LOS tax resident.

thx for your input

cheers

 

[LosLobo]

I had to the opportunity to contact Centrelink through the overseas line this week, firstly on Tuesday then again today.

My first call went to Hobart which was courteous and extremely helpful.

Second call which diverted to mainland was a waste of a time and a 500-baht phone call.

 

That staff member did not have a clue as I seemed I know more than them.

Possibly early morning gets Hobart but in afternoon diverts when busy in Hobart later on.

Anyone know how to do reverse charge call to Centrelink from mobile?

 

 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, LosLobo said:

I had to the opportunity to contact Centrelink through the overseas line this week, firstly on Tuesday then again today.

My first call went to Hobart which was courteous and extremely helpful.

Second call which diverted to mainland was a waste of a time and a 500-baht phone call.

 

That staff member did not have a clue as I seemed I know more than them.

Possibly early morning gets Hobart but in afternoon diverts when busy in Hobart later on.

Anyone know how to do reverse charge call to Centrelink from mobile?

 

 

From Chiang Mai and from Bangkok I've call the Centrelink toll free number number many times over the last approx. 8 years.

 

The number I call is 001 800 611 4136 I always use my mobile to call, my provider in LOS is AIS post pay.

 

Always connects,  8:00 am to 5:00 pm Oz time.

 

Never been charged. 

 

The above is from a Services Australia online document   https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/phone-us?context=64107

[KhunHeineken]

5 hours ago, Bvor said:

thx for your summaries albeit my SAPTO "tax paid?" question still not clarified however not relevant to me anymore with my intended LOS/OZ swings.   

I purposely didn't answer it so the haters had nothing to troll me about, and also because you mentioned you were doing the 183 days inside Australia, so it's irrelevant.  

 

I simply gave you the debate as it stands, and the links showing the proposed changes, tax brackets, DTA, advice from ATO staff etc etc and let you decide where you stand on it all. 

[KhunHeineken]

4 hours ago, Bvor said:

yes i have........... LOS tax would be very minimal but not so the beauracratic BS. Done my research re OAP,visa's, tax tables, DTA's etc as it applies to me. I have a life in OZ as well as LOS. Cost of 4 airfares per year is ok with me. Been doin visa exempts/tourist visas for approx 20 years with my LOS/OZ swings. Its my intention to remain an OZ tax resident and not be a LOS tax resident.

thx for your input

cheers

 

I agree. 

 

Why give yourself any tax grief when you don't have to?

 

Why 4 airfares to and from Australia per year? 

 

My count is 2 airfares, return and depart from Australia for your 186 days to remain a resident for taxation purposes, and the last I heard, you can still get a tourist visa in an embassy / consulate in a neighboring country like Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia etc. 

 

Why not just do a short flight to one of these and get a new tourist visa?  Malaysia being the easiest, as it is a visa exemption stamp, but you may wish to check out some tourist things in the other countries.

 

Also, I see there is now the new 60 day visa exemption which I think can also be extended by 1 month.  I haven't looked into it, so I am not sure, but I encourage you to check it out.  You may not need to even lodge your passport and money at an embassy / consulate for your 178 days in Thailand. 

[Bvor]

27 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Why 4 airfares to and from Australia per year? 

cos 44 day stays (x4) is enough for me these days and proposed 60 day visa exempts (x4) will hopefully facilitate so i have zero interaction re visa's and thai "officialdom" whether it be in LOS or OZ in any shape or form.

evisa will be plan B though.     

[KhunHeineken]

3 minutes ago, Bvor said:

cos 44 day stays (x4) is enough for me these days and proposed 60 day visa exempts (x4) will hopefully facilitate so i have zero interaction re visa's and thai "officialdom" whether it be in LOS or OZ in any shape or form.

evisa will be plan B though.     

Been a long time since I was here for any length of time on tourist visas, but where do you get "60 day visa exempts (x4)" from? 

 

The 60 days visa exempt. I think can be extended for 1 month for 2000 baht, but don't quote me on this.  That's 90 days per entry on a 60 visas exempt, if you want it. 

 

I was under the impression you would do, basically, 6 months consecutive in Australia and 6 months consecutive in Thailand.  I gather this is not correct.

 

Just be aware, Thai tax residency is the calendar year, and if / when the proposed changes pass in Australia, for Australian tax residency it's our financial year. 

[Bvor]

3 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Been a long time since I was here for any length of time on tourist visas, but where do you get "60 day visa exempts (x4)" from? 

 

The 60 days visa exempt. I think can be extended for 1 month for 2000 baht, but don't quote me on this.  That's 90 days per entry on a 60 visas exempt, if you want it. 

I don't want stays of 60+ days ............what suits me is 44 day stays 4 times a year so i am under LOS 180 day rule and will then also be over OZ 183 day rule.

Where i am coming from is........... If the proposed 60 day visa exempts change comes to be and can be utilised  4 times a calender year for 44 day stays i will do.

I am returning to OZ 20/6/2024 and will wait for more clarification of how BKK I/O interprets proposed 60 day visa exemptions per calender year before i do next LOS stay.

I want to avoid LOS officialdom as much as possible but if LOS B/S insists i will do evisa tourist visas when in OZ.