Australian Aged Pension

[expatdreamer]

Disclaimer: I am not a tax professional so seek professional advice.

However, for what its worth, my 2c worth.

Phronesis is right. You only pay 10% tax on bank deposit interest. To do this, you need to declare yourself to the ATO and to your bank as non resident for tax purposes. If you live in Thailand full time, then you should not have a problem meeting the non resident requirements. Once you do this, and you only have bank interest as income, you wont have to fill in a tax return again after the first one is filled in and declared as non resident (as the bank automatically deducts the 10% tax from your interest (before you get it) and sends it to the ATO)

Once you are non resident, you dont pay tax on any fully franked dividends, and only 10% tax on bank interest. Rental income is a different story however, and you have to pay non resident tax (32.5%) on every dollar earnt in rent (minus expenses and depreciation). There is no tax free threshold as a non resident.

So for example, if you have a $500,000 house as your only asset.

Option A. Sell and convert to $500,000 bank deposit. Earn 5% interest = $25,000 pa. Minus 10% tax, therefore $25,000 - $2,500 = $22,500. Convert that to baht and live in LOS - its about 56,000 bht per month. And your money in the bank is guaranteed by the Oz govt.

Option B. Rent house out. Assume rent = $500/week = $26,000 pa. Minus expenses of say $6,000 (agent, maintenance, rates, water, etc) leaves you with $20,000. Take away 32.5% tax (basically a third) means you end up with about $14,000.

Option A beats Option B by about $8,500. This goes far in LOS.

Obviously you might miss out on capital gain from your house going up in value, but if you keep your house as a rental long enough (6 or 7 years), you end up liable for capital gains tax if you sell later on.

Dont know about super as I am too young for that. I think after age 60 super is tax free but I dont know if that applies to non residents. It certainly applies to residents. But what you might be able to do is withdraw it all from super as a lump sum, stick it in the bank, and have just the 10% tax applied to interest.

More info at http://www.ato.gov.au/businesses/content.aspx?doc=/content/66410.htm

Also ignore the outdated tax tables at http://www.australianpropertyinvestor.com/public/192.cfm but the rest is relevant

[expatdreamer]

To add to above, re government superannuation schemes, if you have elected to take a pension, or that is the only option available to you, then obviously you cant convert that to a lump sum and stick it in the bank.

Then I cant see how you would be able to get around the non resident income tax rate of 32.5% on that pension. Unless perhaps because it is a goverment pension, it is provided at a different tax rate - but you would have to check with the fund adminstrators.

Also, presumably those government pension schemes are quite generous compared to trying to buy the equivalent pension on the open market with the (nominal but not available) lump sum dollars, so maybe this offsets the pain somewhat with the tax?

[Old Croc]

To add to above, re government superannuation schemes, if you have elected to take a pension, or that is the only option available to you, then obviously you cant convert that to a lump sum and stick it in the bank.

Then I cant see how you would be able to get around the non resident income tax rate of 32.5% on that pension. Unless perhaps because it is a goverment pension, it is provided at a different tax rate - but you would have to check with the fund adminstrators.

Also, presumably those government pension schemes are quite generous compared to trying to buy the equivalent pension on the open market with the (nominal but not available) lump sum dollars, so maybe this offsets the pain somewhat with the tax?

Just so everyone doesn't think I am a complete idiot a few facts:

My accountant informed me some time ago that Interest tax rates are different for non-residents and we did a quick calculation to see what difference it made to my situation. Not much. (as smug as he is, Phronesis wasn't telling me anything new)

I'm also aware that as a non-resident I wouldn't be paying the medicare levy, so that also would make a slight difference.

I have also started the ball rolling again to find out if I can access my super funds as a lump sum. I am writing to the association and have people in Australia making enquiries for me. I don't expect a favorable response. When I retired 10 years ago I took the option of a partial lump sum and an indexed pension for life. I didn't at that stage envisinge my present life style nor that ATO would move the goal posts.

I do have a large sum of money invested elsewhere other than banks and I don't pay tax on that.

For the moment I will continue to claim to be a resident and wait to see what happens.

[sanuk21]

Phronesis: You say: 10% tax on interest on bank deposits. Why wouldn't this be taxed at 32.5%? I hope you're right.

Phronesis is wrong!

The 10% tax on interest on bank deposits is only withholding tax.

The 32.5% income tax on bank deposits is still applicable less any withholding tax of course

sanuk

[expatdreamer]

Phronesis: You say: 10% tax on interest on bank deposits. Why wouldn't this be taxed at 32.5%? I hope you're right.

Phronesis is wrong!

The 10% tax on interest on bank deposits is only withholding tax.

The 32.5% income tax on bank deposits is still applicable less any withholding tax of course

sanuk

No Phronesis is right and you are wrong !

Read the information very carefully provided by qualified tax agents at http://interactiveta...the-difference/

There is a table that clearly states that for non residents for tax purposes, Interest taxed at flat 10%, or 45% if no overseas address (or TFN) provided

Also note the bit that says "Non-residents do not pay the Medicare levy (and therefore cannot claim Medicare benefits), and will have 10% of any interest earned from Australian bank accounts withheld for tax, subject to any “double taxation agreement” which may impose a different rate (see below). The interest is not included in assessable income, but a non-resident will need to provide an overseas address otherwise tax will be withheld at the much higher rate of 45%"

If you still dont believe those guys, then ring the ATO.

[oldsailor35]

I have just tried to call the Overseas Pensions Office in Hobart supplied in a now locked post on another page

. That number is 00180061104136 ! and the message i get is that this number no longer exists ?

Any ideas?

[OLDAUSSIE]

I have just tried to call the Overseas Pensions Office in Hobart supplied in a now locked post on another page

. That number is 00180061104136 ! and the message i get is that this number no longer exists ?

Any ideas?

Mate this is the number I use, calling from Thailand I use skype. I think they will let you reverse the charges.

61 362 223 455

You can also get some good info on this site:

http://www.australianpensioner.org/

They also have a forum.

[kevjohn]

I have just tried to call the Overseas Pensions Office in Hobart supplied in a now locked post on another page

. That number is 00180061104136 ! and the message i get is that this number no longer exists ?

Any ideas?

Just checked phone number and found 001800 611 4136

There is no 0 in front of the 4

Hope this helps.

This is the link to the International phone numbers

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/contact-us/international-phone-numbers

[oldsailor35]

If I return after 65 years of age I can claim the OAP ...

Hi there Jim ... I have some bad news for you (and me).

Assuming that I have your age correct and I'm a fair bit younger then you, we will have to wait till we are 67 before qualifying for the OAP.

Born between 1 July 1955 and 31 December 1956 - 66 and a half

Born after 1 January 1957....................................- 67

eligibility-for-age-pension

By the time I am eligable, the retirement age will have been upped to 120 years old and all you will get is a spot in the line for the soup kitchen.

They the politicans have sold my and my kids future to stay in power for one more term. Bet their pensions will not ever be effected, Jim

Typical ! hey Jim .

[oldsailor35]

I have just tried to call the Overseas Pensions Office in Hobart supplied in a now locked post on another page

. That number is 00180061104136 ! and the message i get is that this number no longer exists ?

Any ideas?

Just checked phone number and found 001800 611 4136

There is no 0 in front of the 4

Hope this helps.

This is the link to the International phone numbers

http://www.humanserv...l-phone-numbers

Thanks mate, i remember that you have been helpful to me in the past and now it looks like you have done me the favour again. If you ever get to Samui, i owe you a beer !

[oldsailor35]

I have just tried to call the Overseas Pensions Office in Hobart supplied in a now locked post on another page

. That number is 00180061104136 ! and the message i get is that this number no longer exists ?

Any ideas?

Just checked phone number and found 001800 611 4136

There is no 0 in front of the 4

Hope this helps.

This is the link to the International phone numbers

http://www.humanserv...l-phone-numbers

Thanks mate, i remember that you have been helpful to me in the past and now it looks like you have done me the favour again. If you ever get to Samui, i owe you a beer !

I called Overseas Pensions on this number explained all the 'crap' i am getting from Centrelink Caboolture Qld., Within a few mins , they had sorted it all out. Once again Centrelink Cab was causing me stress by not knowing their jobs, apart from how to threaten me with suspended pension. A big thank you to Centrelink Overseas Pension dept Hobart. At least you lot are on the ball !

[kevjohn]

I have just tried to call the Overseas Pensions Office in Hobart supplied in a now locked post on another page

. That number is 00180061104136 ! and the message i get is that this number no longer exists ?

Any ideas?

Just checked phone number and found 001800 611 4136

There is no 0 in front of the 4

Hope this helps.

This is the link to the International phone numbers

http://www.humanserv...l-phone-numbers

Thanks mate, i remember that you have been helpful to me in the past and now it looks like you have done me the favour again. If you ever get to Samui, i owe you a beer !

I called Overseas Pensions on this number explained all the 'crap' i am getting from Centrelink Caboolture Qld., Within a few mins , they had sorted it all out. Once again Centrelink Cab was causing me stress by not knowing their jobs, apart from how to threaten me with suspended pension. A big thank you to Centrelink Overseas Pension dept Hobart. At least you lot are on the ball !

Great to hear that you have things sorted out......

[Mousehound]

This may have already been covered?

I am expecting to have to work untill I am nearly 73 as my wife is much younger than I am and at that age we shall be able to claim a couple pension. Our super has been sverey mauled and even if we are able to take it out as a lump sum it will pay off debts and give us about $100K US in the bank.

The question is:

1. Do we both have to stay in Australia for a further two years after I retire at age 73 to get the pension paid in Thailand? If so, I will be 75 before we could move.

2. If we visit Thailand on hols over the next few years can that be a problem. (I am due for long service leave 3-6 months worth and would like to spend it in Thailand). I don't want a problem with Centrelink saying we don't qualify as we have spent too much time in Thailand.

thanks

[kevjohn]

This may have already been covered?

I am expecting to have to work untill I am nearly 73 as my wife is much younger than I am and at that age we shall be able to claim a couple pension. Our super has been sverey mauled and even if we are able to take it out as a lump sum it will pay off debts and give us about $100K US in the bank.

The question is:

1. Do we both have to stay in Australia for a further two years after I retire at age 73 to get the pension paid in Thailand? If so, I will be 75 before we could move.

2. If we visit Thailand on hols over the next few years can that be a problem. (I am due for long service leave 3-6 months worth and would like to spend it in Thailand). I don't want a problem with Centrelink saying we don't qualify as we have spent too much time in Thailand.

thanks

Your best bet is to phone Centrelink International, Hobart, on 001800 611 4136 and explain your situation.

​That way, you get all the information, to do with your own personal circumstances.

[Mousehound]

Thanks KevJohn - good advice.

[oldsailor35]

This may have already been covered?

I am expecting to have to work untill I am nearly 73 as my wife is much younger than I am and at that age we shall be able to claim a couple pension. Our super has been sverey mauled and even if we are able to take it out as a lump sum it will pay off debts and give us about $100K US in the bank.

The question is:

1. Do we both have to stay in Australia for a further two years after I retire at age 73 to get the pension paid in Thailand? If so, I will be 75 before we could move.

2. If we visit Thailand on hols over the next few years can that be a problem. (I am due for long service leave 3-6 months worth and would like to spend it in Thailand). I don't want a problem with Centrelink saying we don't qualify as we have spent too much time in Thailand.

thanks

Do what i did Mouse . Just call Overseas pension office in Hobart, they are much better and more understanding than your local Centrelink and will put you right quickly ! good luck.

[Mousehound]

Talking with local CentreLink is like teaching a lemon to swim. They never mentioned Hobart to me once. That goodness for this forum.

[kevjohn]

Talking with local CentreLink is like teaching a lemon to swim. They never mentioned Hobart to me once. That goodness for this forum.

Just realised that you may be in Australia.

If so, then the Centrelink International phone number is 131673 .

They did have an 1800 number but that seems to have gone by the way side.

Best of luck.

[sanuk21]

Phronesis: You say: 10% tax on interest on bank deposits. Why wouldn't this be taxed at 32.5%? I hope you're right.

Phronesis is wrong!

The 10% tax on interest on bank deposits is only withholding tax.

The 32.5% income tax on bank deposits is still applicable less any withholding tax of course

sanuk

No Phronesis is right and you are wrong !

Read the information very carefully provided by qualified tax agents at http://interactiveta...the-difference/

There is a table that clearly states that for non residents for tax purposes, Interest taxed at flat 10%, or 45% if no overseas address (or TFN) provided

Also note the bit that says "Non-residents do not pay the Medicare levy (and therefore cannot claim Medicare benefits), and will have 10% of any interest earned from Australian bank accounts withheld for tax, subject to any “double taxation agreement” which may impose a different rate (see below). The interest is not included in assessable income, but a non-resident will need to provide an overseas address otherwise tax will be withheld at the much higher rate of 45%"

If you still dont believe those guys, then ring the ATO.

Sorry apologies to Phronesis!

I am wrong. I based my info on my last return 2010/11 where I paid the full concessional rate.

An aside .....

Your quote

"Non-residents do not pay the Medicare levy (and therefore cannot claim Medicare benefits)"

I thought the criteria for non-eligibility for non-residents to claim Medicare benefits is based on being a non-resident for 5 years not the payment of the levy.

Any more info on this?

sanuk

[Mousehound]

Agreeing with Will27 above.

I'm surprised and disappointing with a system which treats the accumulated superannuation and taxed in this way ... and Old Croc ... my sympathies.

Now Will27 did not say this ...

I maintain that the OAP is a privilege and not a right.

Yes, you did work the majority of your life in Australia and paid your taxes ... but you also enjoyed, at the time, the benefits of those taxes through the various services you used, schools, hospitals, roads and the like.

The OAP, disability pension and the like, should only be paid in Thailand at a reduced rate to reflect the cost of living in Thailand ... or elsewhere in the world.

If you wanted financial independence ... you should have planned for it 20 or 30 years ago.

Your current pension is being paid for by your children and grandchildren's taxes ... not yours ... despite what you might believe.

Don't blame the government now for tightening the rules as the rules and the concept of the OAP were written in a different world, for a different age.

Actually access to a pension, if you are entitled to one is just that - an entiltlement. And therefore a right. After all that person on a pension has supported the children and the pensioners all their tax paying life. Also, if you think a lower rate should be paid beacause the pension is being paid to someone living in a lower cost of living counyry then surely a higher pension should be pauid if the pensioner is living in a more expensive country? I would also point out that a pension recipient living abroad relieves the tax payer of subsidising health, public transport and all those other things their taxes paid for during their working life. In addittion they are freeing up much needed housing (if from Australia). Based on this I should say that the pension should be increased not decreased if the recipient lives abroad. By the way, I am not retired and don't receive a pension.

[BookMan]

Agreeing with Will27 above.

I'm surprised and disappointing with a system which treats the accumulated superannuation and taxed in this way ... and Old Croc ... my sympathies.

Now Will27 did not say this ...

I maintain that the OAP is a privilege and not a right.

Yes, you did work the majority of your life in Australia and paid your taxes ... but you also enjoyed, at the time, the benefits of those taxes through the various services you used, schools, hospitals, roads and the like.

The OAP, disability pension and the like, should only be paid in Thailand at a reduced rate to reflect the cost of living in Thailand ... or elsewhere in the world.

If you wanted financial independence ... you should have planned for it 20 or 30 years ago.

Your current pension is being paid for by your children and grandchildren's taxes ... not yours ... despite what you might believe.

Don't blame the government now for tightening the rules as the rules and the concept of the OAP were written in a different world, for a different age.

Actually access to a pension, if you are entitled to one is just that - an entiltlement. And therefore a right. After all that person on a pension has supported the children and the pensioners all their tax paying life. Also, if you think a lower rate should be paid beacause the pension is being paid to someone living in a lower cost of living counyry then surely a higher pension should be pauid if the pensioner is living in a more expensive country? I would also point out that a pension recipient living abroad relieves the tax payer of subsidising health, public transport and all those other things their taxes paid for during their working life. In addittion they are freeing up much needed housing (if from Australia). Based on this I should say that the pension should be increased not decreased if the recipient lives abroad. By the way, I am not retired and don't receive a pension.

When governments introduced pensions for old age, people had much much lower life expectancies.

In 1889, Bismarck, The Iron Chancellor set the pension age at 70 years. The average age expectancy was 45 years!

In 1908 Lloyd George set the British retirement age at 70. Average life expectancy about 50 years

1935 the US sets the retirable pension age at 65. Average lifespan 68.

All 3 of these countries now has an average life expectancy of around 80 years of age.

Simply put. Governments CANNOT continue to fund retirement pensions. They will not be able to afford it.

My guess: in 20 years you will not be able to live overseas and claim the OAP in Australia.

The argument about saving the economy money on health care, housing, transport etcetera is a fallacious one.

[BookMan]

Agreeing with Will27 above.

I'm surprised and disappointing with a system which treats the accumulated superannuation and taxed in this way ... and Old Croc ... my sympathies.

Now Will27 did not say this ...

I maintain that the OAP is a privilege and not a right.

Yes, you did work the majority of your life in Australia and paid your taxes ... but you also enjoyed, at the time, the benefits of those taxes through the various services you used, schools, hospitals, roads and the like.

The OAP, disability pension and the like, should only be paid in Thailand at a reduced rate to reflect the cost of living in Thailand ... or elsewhere in the world.

If you wanted financial independence ... you should have planned for it 20 or 30 years ago.

Your current pension is being paid for by your children and grandchildren's taxes ... not yours ... despite what you might believe.

Don't blame the government now for tightening the rules as the rules and the concept of the OAP were written in a different world, for a different age.

Spot on

[BookMan]

As a self funded retiree (no C/L pension) and with no overseas income, I greatly resent having to pay a non-residents tax rate on my superannuation and savings earnt over a lifetime of work in Australia!

I would have thought if you're retired and over 60 it's all tax free?

As I'm over 60 my superannuation pension has been taxed at a low rate (about $500 a year).

By declaring me to be a non-resident, ATO want to tax me the same as if I was a backpacker picking fruit.

The new rate from 2013 is 32.5 cents for every dollar earned starting at zero.

Effectively my superannuation of approx AUD34,000 will attrack tax of over $11,000!!!

Only if you are dull or lazy:

Tax rates options for the wise aussie non residents:

1. shares with fully franked dividends: no tax

2. interest on bank deposits: 10%

3. (my personal favourite) Establish a discretionary trust with you as a named beneficiary (google Cleardocs costs less than $300. If established in QLD no stamp duty applies): 10% on distributions to offshore beneficiary

4. Establish a company (google Cleardocs costs less than $300) You will need a trusted person in Oz as one of the directors as you cannot have a sole non resident director. Use your investment income earned on your retirement capital to pay for your expenses here in Thailand (because you are here hunting around for investment opportunities): 30% tax on any income of the company not used up by your expenses. If you have lots of expenses then your tax will be zero.

The trust is often a better option because there is no annual ASIC fees or other corporate reporting or compliance responsibilities. The trust also provides asset protection advantages.

Stop whinging about being victimized by the ATO and start properly researching your options...

Some good information here

[simple1]

Agreeing with Will27 above.

I'm surprised and disappointing with a system which treats the accumulated superannuation and taxed in this way ... and Old Croc ... my sympathies.

Now Will27 did not say this ...

I maintain that the OAP is a privilege and not a right.

Yes, you did work the majority of your life in Australia and paid your taxes ... but you also enjoyed, at the time, the benefits of those taxes through the various services you used, schools, hospitals, roads and the like.

The OAP, disability pension and the like, should only be paid in Thailand at a reduced rate to reflect the cost of living in Thailand ... or elsewhere in the world.

If you wanted financial independence ... you should have planned for it 20 or 30 years ago.

Your current pension is being paid for by your children and grandchildren's taxes ... not yours ... despite what you might believe.

Don't blame the government now for tightening the rules as the rules and the concept of the OAP were written in a different world, for a different age.

The current statisticians state that the average income earner in Australia would require 40 years of full time employment to have sufficient funds for a "reasonable" life style in retirement at 65. This is based upon the current rate of employer superannuation contribution, plus 3% salary sacrifice.

[Old Croc]

The current statisticians state that the average income earner in Australia would require 40 years of full time employment to have sufficient funds for a "reasonable" life style in retirement at 65. This is based upon the current rate of employer superannuation contribution, plus 3% salary sacrifice.

I worked full time for about 35 years and never once went on the dole.

I was lucky to have finished on a fairly high salary, retired early mainly for health reasons, and planned that my superannuation would support me for the rest of my days. I want to spend those days in Thailand where I can live more than comfortably on that super.

I didn't plan that the ATO would move the goal posts, declare me to be a non Australian, and want to tax my retirement money at 32.5%!

Hence my whinge.

[David48]

Hey there Old Croc ... maybe we had a wee misunderstanding before (I understand that you do not refer to the benefits of the OAP).

I fully support your whinge.

To be taxed at the rate that you on your accumulated superannuation is an imbalance in the system ... it's unfair ... hell, it's just not cricket ...

[BookMan]

Agreeing with Will27 above.

I'm surprised and disappointing with a system which treats the accumulated superannuation and taxed in this way ... and Old Croc ... my sympathies.

Now Will27 did not say this ...

I maintain that the OAP is a privilege and not a right.

Yes, you did work the majority of your life in Australia and paid your taxes ... but you also enjoyed, at the time, the benefits of those taxes through the various services you used, schools, hospitals, roads and the like.

The OAP, disability pension and the like, should only be paid in Thailand at a reduced rate to reflect the cost of living in Thailand ... or elsewhere in the world.

If you wanted financial independence ... you should have planned for it 20 or 30 years ago.

Your current pension is being paid for by your children and grandchildren's taxes ... not yours ... despite what you might believe.

Don't blame the government now for tightening the rules as the rules and the concept of the OAP were written in a different world, for a different age.

The current statisticians state that the average income earner in Australia would require 40 years of full time employment to have sufficient funds for a "reasonable" life style in retirement at 65. This is based upon the current rate of employer superannuation contribution, plus 3% salary sacrifice.

It will be a rocky road for many retirees. Even with super and depositing the formulated amount, there are no guarantees you will have enough to fulfil lifestyle wishes.

Look at the superannuation fund returns the last few years. Only people doing well are the fund managers who get a commission or management fee regardless of performance.

[expatdreamer]

Sorry apologies to Phronesis!

I am wrong. I based my info on my last return 2010/11 where I paid the full concessional rate.

An aside .....

Your quote

"Non-residents do not pay the Medicare levy (and therefore cannot claim Medicare benefits)"

I thought the criteria for non-eligibility for non-residents to claim Medicare benefits is based on being a non-resident for 5 years not the payment of the levy.

Any more info on this?

sanuk

Not sure I understand your concern. If you live in Thailand, then you obviously cannot benefit from claiming Medicare benefits, therefore you are better off being a non resident for tax purposes as you dont pay the 1.5% medicare tax levy.

Now if you decide to return to Australia to live permanently, all you need to do as far as I know is inform Centrelink that you are back for good and you can get yourself a new Medicare card. See http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/medicare/medicare-card/medicare-enrolment-for-returning-residents There does not appear to be any waiting period, just need to show a couple of documents like a new rental agreement for a place in Australia.

I dont know anything about the 5 year thing but someone else may.

If your concern is about having access to being able to claim Medicare benefits whilst coming back to Australia for holidays, that too I dont know anything about. However if you have kept your Medicare card, then I dont see any reason why you couldnt try to use it assuming it still is within the expiry date. In fact, that may be where the 5 year thing comes from as your Medicare card normally has a 5 year expiry period from issue. The Medicare card also needs to be tied to an Australian address.

[oldsailor35]

Agreeing with Will27 above.

I'm surprised and disappointing with a system which treats the accumulated superannuation and taxed in this way ... and Old Croc ... my sympathies.

Now Will27 did not say this ...

I maintain that the OAP is a privilege and not a right.

Yes, you did work the majority of your life in Australia and paid your taxes ... but you also enjoyed, at the time, the benefits of those taxes through the various services you used, schools, hospitals, roads and the like.

The OAP, disability pension and the like, should only be paid in Thailand at a reduced rate to reflect the cost of living in Thailand ... or elsewhere in the world.

If you wanted financial independence ... you should have planned for it 20 or 30 years ago.

Your current pension is being paid for by your children and grandchildren's taxes ... not yours ... despite what you might believe.

Don't blame the government now for tightening the rules as the rules and the concept of the OAP were written in a different world, for a different age.

Actually access to a pension, if you are entitled to one is just that - an entiltlement. And therefore a right. After all that person on a pension has supported the children and the pensioners all their tax paying life. Also, if you think a lower rate should be paid beacause the pension is being paid to someone living in a lower cost of living counyry then surely a higher pension should be pauid if the pensioner is living in a more expensive country? I would also point out that a pension recipient living abroad relieves the tax payer of subsidising health, public transport and all those other things their taxes paid for during their working life. In addittion they are freeing up much needed housing (if from Australia). Based on this I should say that the pension should be increased not decreased if the recipient lives abroad. By the way, I am not retired and don't receive a pension.

I think that finding a country more expensive than Australia would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Just ask anybody who have been there recently. Living costs are exorbitant , but this what happens when one gets a Labour govt who claim to have the worlds best treasurer !

[oldsailor35]

Agreeing with Will27 above.

I'm surprised and disappointing with a system which treats the accumulated superannuation and taxed in this way ... and Old Croc ... my sympathies.

Now Will27 did not say this ...

I maintain that the OAP is a privilege and not a right.

Yes, you did work the majority of your life in Australia and paid your taxes ... but you also enjoyed, at the time, the benefits of those taxes through the various services you used, schools, hospitals, roads and the like.

The OAP, disability pension and the like, should only be paid in Thailand at a reduced rate to reflect the cost of living in Thailand ... or elsewhere in the world.

If you wanted financial independence ... you should have planned for it 20 or 30 years ago.

Your current pension is being paid for by your children and grandchildren's taxes ... not yours ... despite what you might believe.

Don't blame the government now for tightening the rules as the rules and the concept of the OAP were written in a different world, for a different age.

Spot on

Another aspect is the massive pensions and benefits that the politicians have awarded themselves, gold card travel worldwide, free office with secretary and so on. This should all be stopped immediately when they leave office.