Australian Aged Pension

[David48]

I just received the Centrelink newsletter and it gives the current rates for pensioners living overseas, and I quote "Maximum basic rate for Single, A$19,544.20 per year. Maximum Couple rate, A$29,463 per year". Surely this can't be right, that's $600 a week for a single! I don't get a full aged pension because of other income, so mine is reduced to around $700 a month, so I wasn't really aware of what the full pension was.

Maths lesson

19544.20 /52 = 375.85

As a tip when giving income in months....it is not 2 fortnights to a month. there are 13 pay periods in a year.

Just as a factual calculation.

It's easy to divide the monthly figure by 4.33

Funny how and what you remember from University ... Macro/Micro Economics ...

[harrry]

I just received the Centrelink newsletter and it gives the current rates for pensioners living overseas, and I quote "Maximum basic rate for Single, A$19,544.20 per year. Maximum Couple rate, A$29,463 per year". Surely this can't be right, that's $600 a week for a single! I don't get a full aged pension because of other income, so mine is reduced to around $700 a month, so I wasn't really aware of what the full pension was.

Maths lesson

19544.20 /52 = 375.85

As a tip when giving income in months....it is not 2 fortnights to a month. there are 13 pay periods in a year.

Just as a factual calculation.

It's easy to divide the monthly figure by 4.33

Funny how and what you remember from University ... Macro/Micro Economics ...

But first you have to get the monthly figure.

Edited November 22, 2013 by harrry

[oldsailor35]

You have to reside in oz to claim the o/a pension. However once you have it. You can still get it payed into your aussie bank and draw it here in Thailand, i do and have been for last 10 yrs.

[oldsailor35]

I just scrolled to the end of the last page off this topic and it seems that no one has posted any information post the new rules that came out in September this year.

Have any Aussie aged pensioners been affected by new rules about how long they can stay outside of Aus?

My wife's parents decided not to move over here because they heard they need to live in Aus and be there every 6 weeks, but I think that's <deleted>.

What's the bottom line?

Yes that's a load of <deleted>!

I have been drawing mine for years. However its my advice to pensioners here, do not deal with general Centrelink Office, they will try to make life tough, as they did with me. Instead deal straight with Australian Overseas Pensions Office, they are very helpful and to me were quite scornful of the other mob.

Good luck.

[oldsailor35]

I just scrolled to the end of the last page off this topic and it seems that no one has posted any information post the new rules that came out in September this year.

Have any Aussie aged pensioners been affected by new rules about how long they can stay outside of Aus?

My wife's parents decided not to move over here because they heard they need to live in Aus and be there every 6 weeks, but I think that's <deleted>.

What's the bottom line?

I'm a Vietnam War Veteran. By and large the War Veterans Pension 'rules' have always mirrored the old age pension 'rules'.

Over the years I have contacted the various agencies several times in regard to claiming a War Veterans Pension but always get the same answer, basically, 'your not living in Australia, therefore you cannot get the pension'.

Any new / changed information anybody can share (old age or war vets pensions) would be greatly appreciated by many.

You need to bypass Centrelink and contact the RSL, they have staff to look after you.

[Artisi]

You have to reside in oz to claim the o/a pension. However once you have it. You can still get it payed into your aussie bank and draw it here in Thailand, i do and have been for last 10 yrs.

Same same, for the past 3 years in my case as I am (or was) classed as a resident. However, when first applying because of my time O/S they wanted to class me as a former resident, a long story in itself and discussed at length way back in this forum.

[scorecard]

You have to reside in oz to claim the o/a pension. However once you have it. You can still get it payed into your aussie bank and draw it here in Thailand, i do and have been for last 10 yrs.

Same same, for the past 3 years in my case as I am (or was) classed as a resident. However, when first applying because of my time O/S they wanted to class me as a former resident, a long story in itself and discussed at length way back in this forum.

Can you please expand on this a little.

My question is whether you have to prove that you have physically been in Australia for most of the time for say the two years (just an example) before the day you apply?

Or does it mean someone who has been out of Australia for quite a few years could travel back, apply the next day, and get it?

Also, do you know whether the exact same 'rules' apply if the person is a war veteran?

Your comments much appreciated, thanks.

[harrry]

You have to reside in oz to claim the o/a pension. However once you have it. You can still get it payed into your aussie bank and draw it here in Thailand, i do and have been for last 10 yrs.

Same same, for the past 3 years in my case as I am (or was) classed as a resident. However, when first applying because of my time O/S they wanted to class me as a former resident, a long story in itself and discussed at length way back in this forum.

Can you please expand on this a little.

My question is whether you have to prove that you have physically been in Australia for most of the time for say the two years (just an example) before the day you apply?

Or does it mean someone who has been out of Australia for quite a few years could travel back, apply the next day, and get it?

Also, do you know whether the exact same 'rules' apply if the person is a war veteran?

Your comments much appreciated, thanks.

Centrelink have direct access on the computer to your passport travel information.

You can apply the day you go back but you probably will not be paid for about 6 weeks but you will be backpaid from the time you applied.

Once you have it you will have to stay there for 2 years or you will not be able to take it with you when you leave australia.

[Artisi]

 

 

You have to reside in oz to claim the o/a pension.  However once you have it. You can still get it payed into your aussie bank and draw it here in Thailand, i do  and have been for last 10 yrs.

 

 

Same same, for the past 3 years in my case as I am (or was) classed as a resident. However, when first applying because of my time O/S they wanted to class me as a former resident, a long story in itself and discussed at length way back in this forum.

 

 

Can you please expand on this a little. 

 

My question is whether you have to prove that you have physically been in Australia for most of the time for say the two years (just an example) before the day you apply?

 

Or does it mean someone who has been out of Australia for quite a few years could travel back, apply the next day, and get it? 

 

Also, do you know whether the exact same 'rules' apply if the person is a war veteran?

 

Your comments much appreciated, thanks.

 

Centrelink have direct access on the computer to your passport travel information.

You can apply the day you go back but you probably will not be paid for about 6 weeks but you will be backpaid from the time you applied.

Once you have it you will have to stay there for 2 years or you will not be able to take it with you when you leave australia.

Depends on your status, if deemed to be former resident the 2 year rule applies, if deemed a resident, then you are free to travel o/s at your leisure.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Artisi]

 

 

You have to reside in oz to claim the o/a pension.  However once you have it. You can still get it payed into your aussie bank and draw it here in Thailand, i do  and have been for last 10 yrs.

 

 

Same same, for the past 3 years in my case as I am (or was) classed as a resident. However, when first applying because of my time O/S they wanted to class me as a former resident, a long story in itself and discussed at length way back in this forum.

 

 

Can you please expand on this a little. 

 

My question is whether you have to prove that you have physically been in Australia for most of the time for say the two years (just an example) before the day you apply?

 

Or does it mean someone who has been out of Australia for quite a few years could travel back, apply the next day, and get it? 

 

Also, do you know whether the exact same 'rules' apply if the person is a war veteran?

 

Your comments much appreciated, thanks.

 

Centrelink have direct access on the computer to your passport travel information.

You can apply the day you go back but you probably will not be paid for about 6 weeks but you will be backpaid from the time you applied.

Once you have it you will have to stay there for 2 years or you will not be able to take it with you when you leave australia.

Depends on your status, if deemed to be former resident the 2 year rule applies, if deemed a resident, then you are free to travel o/s at your leisure.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Just to add s bit more, if you have been o/ s for a long while and deemed to be a former resident, you can still apply and be granted a pension straight away but can't travel o/s for 2 years - if you do the pension will be stopped and you will probably have to reapply.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[scorecard]

You have to reside in oz to claim the o/a pension. However once you have it. You can still get it payed into your aussie bank and draw it here in Thailand, i do and have been for last 10 yrs.

Same same, for the past 3 years in my case as I am (or was) classed as a resident. However, when first applying because of my time O/S they wanted to class me as a former resident, a long story in itself and discussed at length way back in this forum.

Can you please expand on this a little.

My question is whether you have to prove that you have physically been in Australia for most of the time for say the two years (just an example) before the day you apply?

Or does it mean someone who has been out of Australia for quite a few years could travel back, apply the next day, and get it?

Also, do you know whether the exact same 'rules' apply if the person is a war veteran?

Your comments much appreciated, thanks.

Centrelink have direct access on the computer to your passport travel information.

You can apply the day you go back but you probably will not be paid for about 6 weeks but you will be backpaid from the time you applied.

Once you have it you will have to stay there for 2 years or you will not be able to take it with you when you leave australia.

Depends on your status, if deemed to be former resident the 2 year rule applies, if deemed a resident, then you are free to travel o/s at your leisure.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Just to add s bit more, if you have been o/ s for a long while and deemed to be a former resident, you can still apply and be granted a pension straight away but can't travel o/s for 2 years - if you do the pension will be stopped and you will probably have to reapply.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Dear Artisi, thanks for all of that, appreciated.

My last visit to Australia was some 14 years back from now and the immediate visit prior to that was about 8 years earlier.

Also, I cancelled my name on electoral roles about 20 years ago to stop getting notices about not voting.

So I'm guessing I would automatically be classified as a former resident, even though Australia is my country of birth and both my parents born in Australia.

[Artisi]

 

 

You have to reside in oz to claim the o/a pension.  However once you have it. You can still get it payed into your aussie bank and draw it here in Thailand, i do  and have been for last 10 yrs.

 

 

Same same, for the past 3 years in my case as I am (or was) classed as a resident. However, when first applying because of my time O/S they wanted to class me as a former resident, a long story in itself and discussed at length way back in this forum.

 

 

Can you please expand on this a little. 

 

My question is whether you have to prove that you have physically been in Australia for most of the time for say the two years (just an example) before the day you apply?

 

Or does it mean someone who has been out of Australia for quite a few years could travel back, apply the next day, and get it? 

 

Also, do you know whether the exact same 'rules' apply if the person is a war veteran?

 

Your comments much appreciated, thanks.

 

Centrelink have direct access on the computer to your passport travel information.

You can apply the day you go back but you probably will not be paid for about 6 weeks but you will be backpaid from the time you applied.

Once you have it you will have to stay there for 2 years or you will not be able to take it with you when you leave australia.

Depends on your status, if deemed to be former resident the 2 year rule applies, if deemed a resident, then you are free to travel o/s at your leisure.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Just to add s bit more, if you have been o/ s for a long while and deemed to be a former resident, you can still apply and be granted a pension straight away but can't travel o/s for 2 years - if you do the pension will be stopped and you will probably have to reapply.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

 

Dear Artisi, thanks for all of that, appreciated.

 

My last visit to Australia was some 14 years back from now and the immediate visit prior to that was about 8 years earlier.   

 

Also, I cancelled my name on electoral roles about 20 years ago to stop getting notices about not voting.

 

So I'm guessing I would automatically be classified as a former resident, even though Australia is my country of birth and both my parents born in Australia. 

No doubt about it, in your case they also consider the number of years were resident from the age of 16.

You need to discuss this with Centrelink International Services

+61 3 6222 3455

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[scorecard]

You have to reside in oz to claim the o/a pension. However once you have it. You can still get it payed into your aussie bank and draw it here in Thailand, i do and have been for last 10 yrs.

Same same, for the past 3 years in my case as I am (or was) classed as a resident. However, when first applying because of my time O/S they wanted to class me as a former resident, a long story in itself and discussed at length way back in this forum.

Can you please expand on this a little.

My question is whether you have to prove that you have physically been in Australia for most of the time for say the two years (just an example) before the day you apply?

Or does it mean someone who has been out of Australia for quite a few years could travel back, apply the next day, and get it?

Also, do you know whether the exact same 'rules' apply if the person is a war veteran?

Your comments much appreciated, thanks.

Centrelink have direct access on the computer to your passport travel information.

You can apply the day you go back but you probably will not be paid for about 6 weeks but you will be backpaid from the time you applied.

Once you have it you will have to stay there for 2 years or you will not be able to take it with you when you leave australia.

Depends on your status, if deemed to be former resident the 2 year rule applies, if deemed a resident, then you are free to travel o/s at your leisure.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Just to add s bit more, if you have been o/ s for a long while and deemed to be a former resident, you can still apply and be granted a pension straight away but can't travel o/s for 2 years - if you do the pension will be stopped and you will probably have to reapply.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Dear Artisi, thanks for all of that, appreciated.

My last visit to Australia was some 14 years back from now and the immediate visit prior to that was about 8 years earlier.

Also, I cancelled my name on electoral roles about 20 years ago to stop getting notices about not voting.

So I'm guessing I would automatically be classified as a former resident, even though Australia is my country of birth and both my parents born in Australia.

No doubt about it, in your case they also consider the number of years were resident from the age of 16.

You need to discuss this with Centrelink International Services

+61 3 6222 3455

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thanks for sharing, much appreciated.

[simple1]

Depends on your status, if deemed to be former resident the 2 year rule applies, if deemed a resident, then you are free to travel o/s at your leisure.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Just to add s bit more, if you have been o/ s for a long while and deemed to be a former resident, you can still apply and be granted a pension straight away but can't travel o/s for 2 years - if you do the pension will be stopped and you will probably have to reapply.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Dear Artisi, thanks for all of that, appreciated.

My last visit to Australia was some 14 years back from now and the immediate visit prior to that was about 8 years earlier.

Also, I cancelled my name on electoral roles about 20 years ago to stop getting notices about not voting.

So I'm guessing I would automatically be classified as a former resident, even though Australia is my country of birth and both my parents born in Australia.

Criteria for time as resident in Australia to be able to claim Aged Pension and assessment for proving residency upon return at URLs below. Note that from 01/01/2014 Working Life period for full Aged Pension will be increased from 25 to 35 years, otherwise pro rata

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/age-pension

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/residence-descriptions#a2

[David48]

Hey simple1* ... or any one else.

Say you worked in say England for 20 years and Australia for 20 years,

quite considerable stints in each, contributing to taxes etc

... would you be eligible, by living in Thailand able to claim a pension from either ... or both Countries?

* Mate ... not having a go ... just a genuine question.

[simple1]

Hey simple1* ... or any one else.

Say you worked in say England for 20 years and Australia for 20 years,

quite considerable stints in each, contributing to taxes etc

... would you be eligible, by living in Thailand able to claim a pension from either ... or both Countries?

* Mate ... not having a go ... just a genuine question.

Subject to meeting Aged Pension claiment criteria in both countries, Yes. Do not know if there is any financial impact for payment of pension monies if declaring both pensions.

EDIT: I understand with the UK it is not a requirement to return in order to make an Aged Pension claim.

Edited November 24, 2013 by simple1

[ozzydom]

Hey simple1* ... or any one else.

Say you worked in say England for 20 years and Australia for 20 years,

quite considerable stints in each, contributing to taxes etc

... would you be eligible, by living in Thailand able to claim a pension from either ... or both Countries?

* Mate ... not having a go ... just a genuine question.

Pretty sure the answer is yes.

Under International Social Security Agreements ,if you are entitled to pension payments from another country, you are under law required to claim that pension and inform the Australian Government.

Your Oz pension will then be reduced by the amount received from the second pension.

Depending on which is regarded as the primary pension you may end up getting the equivalent of the British pension which I believe is lower than the Oz one.

[harrry]

Hey simple1* ... or any one else.

Say you worked in say England for 20 years and Australia for 20 years,

quite considerable stints in each, contributing to taxes etc

... would you be eligible, by living in Thailand able to claim a pension from either ... or both Countries?

* Mate ... not having a go ... just a genuine question.

Pretty sure the answer is yes.

Under International Social Security Agreements ,if you are entitled to pension payments from another country, you are under law required to claim that pension and inform the Australian Government.

Your Oz pension will then be reduced by the amount received from the second pension.

Depending on which is regarded as the primary pension you may end up getting the equivalent of the British pension which I believe is lower than the Oz one.

This is not not completely true. THe Ausstralian SS agreement with the UK was cancelled as UK did not index pensions for people in Aust. Now the Australian pension is considered as extra income and the Australian pension is reduced in accordance with the extra income rules. ie after the free threshold 50cents in the dollar.

[mickjn]

I do not if this will help anyone or not.I was put onto the disability pension when I was 49 after having a reoccurring brain tumor 3 times.I used to go to LOS quite often.I never notified Centelink I was leaving the country.About 6 weeks before my 65 th birthday I got a letter from Centrelink asking when I was 65 did I want to stay on Disability or go on OAP.I rang them and was told if I went on OAP I could live overseas permanently but after a certain time my pension would drop but not much.I told them my intention was to live overseas but return every 6 months,I was told there was no problem with that,if I returned within the 6 months there was no problem,I could come in one day leave the next pension would stay the same. They sent me out another lot of paperwork but I could not figure it out so I went to Centrelink and they helped me with it.So it came to my birthday pension changed to OAP no problems.About 2 weeks later I got some interest from the bank to I rang them up and told them,I had got interest but I had spent money my account was the same.Then the lady said to me you were out of the country for 8 months and never told us.I told her that is not right I was out for for 2 months came back for 6 months then out for 10 days,she said ok I will fix it up but you must tell us when you leave the country.Also you were not out of the country for more than 13 weeks at a time when you applied for your pension I said no she said ok.If you are not in the country the day before you are 65 you will not get the pension or if you return you have to stay until you are 67.All the trips I made on the Disability Pension didn't matter the problem is what you go onto the OAP

[xen]

Article in the SMH this morning - something some of us need to take into account , especially if you are in the late 50's/early 60's now . It is still yet to be adopted as policy and to pass thru parliament.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/no-pension-or-superannuation-until-age-70-under-radical-plan-20131124-2y42e.html

[harrry]

Article in the SMH this morning - something some of us need to take into account , especially if you are in the late 50's/early 60's now . It is still yet to be adopted as policy and to pass thru parliament.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/no-pension-or-superannuation-until-age-70-under-radical-plan-20131124-2y42e.html

It has allready been stated by the government there are no plans to change this was just a suggestion made by one group.

Edited November 25, 2013 by harrry

[David48]

Article in the SMH this morning - something some of us need to take into account , especially if you are in the late 50's/early 60's now . It is still yet to be adopted as policy and to pass thru parliament.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/no-pension-or-superannuation-until-age-70-under-radical-plan-20131124-2y42e.html

It has allready been stated by the government there are no plans to change this was just a suggestion made by one group.

I mentioned it and the repercussions on the previous page ... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/163135-australian-aged-pension/?p=7066569

.

[Jasun]

The report says that "Taxes would have to rise by 21 per cent to fund costs associated with ageing". We know that isn't going to happen. And I doubt any govt would have the guts to include the family home in asset tests. Ultimately something has to give, and unfortunately expats are about the softest target they have.

[Artisi]

The report says that "Taxes would have to rise by 21 per cent to fund costs associated with ageing". We know that isn't going to happen. And I doubt any govt would have the guts to include the family home in asset tests. Ultimately something has to give, and unfortunately expats are about the softest target they have.

If they start hitting the ex-pats with too many restrictions, reductions, etc, the best move it to return to Aust. as it costs them more to have you at home than o/seas.

If enough do it, the penny might drop and it will be rethought.

[David48]

Just as a conversation point ... I agree that the Family home should be part of a Pensioners assets to be considered when granting the pension.

I don't agree with Capital Gains tax though on the Family Homes.

Before the guys currently on the pensions want to burn effigies of me ... the current system won't be changed and it wouldn't affect you guys ... nor should it.

But, come the next 10, 20, 30 years ... when I become eligible for the pension ... things will change.

I think that a pension is a privilege, not a right ... and to be paid to those who have no other means of support.

An example in case.

A dear 'ole pensioner is residing alone in a huge house valued at $750,000, but living on the OAP.

She's complaining that the pension is crap and near impossible to live on.

A reverse mortgage on her house at half the agreed value and that mortgage being guaranteed by the government would release $375,000 to her and immensely improve her lifestyle.

When she passes, the reverse mortgage is repaid and the balance monies go into her estate.

If welfare/social security is to survive and stay true to helping the most at need ... it needs to stay flexible about determining who is eligible and how it is paid.

Remembering, at all times, unlike Superannuation which is a collection of wealth over time and directly attributable to the individual ... the OAP and the like is paid for by the taxes of those currently working ... as you paid the pension of your Fathers through your taxes.

As fewer and fewer people are working, due to retirement, there are fewer and fewer people left to contribute to funding the OAP and the like, thus we need to stay flexible in our approach with funding models.

.

[Jasun]

Yep, I agree with all that, I think the reverse mortgage idea is worthy and logical. Perhaps if there were some limits, such as only accessing value over the median house price. We're not talking about little old ladies in bedsitters, but people sitting on million dollar properties expecting welfare payments.

Politically it will be tough. The majority of baby boomers have now moved into pension age. Having lived through the Rudd-Gillard experience, i'm convinced that politicians are prepared to say and do anything to keep themselves in power. That won't include pissing off the biggest voting block in the country.

The most likely outcome is a progressive increase in retirement age, coupled with some broad and less offensive revenue raising such as GST on online purchases. And still that won't be enough. Maybe Joe Hockey knew that when he raised the debt limit.

[simple1]

Aged Pension is funded via the annual budget, government made a serious error in not establishing a future fund for Aged Pension expenditure. Government is constantly varying the tax policy and the annual salary sacrifice amounts for superannuation funds, thereby contributing to uncertainty in retirement planning. Adding to this Federal and State government employees are also funded by their respective annual budgets, not from an investment fund pool that creates a huge drain on their budgets.

Some years back there was a study that demonstrated, after taking all factors into consideration, that it was less of a drain on government funding for pensioners if they desired to move overseas at retirement age. The report recommended easing restrictions, but was not supported by government due to anticipated voter backlash..

In 2000 12.3 per cent of the population were aged over 65, it is forecast that by 2051 nearly one quarter of the population will be 65 years or older.

http://www.aifs.gov.au/institute/pubs/briefing10.html

[David48]

Aged Pension is funded via the annual budget, government made a serious error in not establishing a future fund for Aged Pension expenditure.

Yes, that would be a great idea ..

The current 'Future Fund' is to cover the unfunded government workers pensions ... so it's sort of doing that job.

But why can't the government start saving now for their employees super by setting up a Federal Super Fund for all the Public Servants, Armed Forces, Pollies etc and pay into that from the current budget so, in 20, 30 or 40 years time, the current Future Fund will be relieved of it's responsibilities to cover this the superannuation element and become a fund for all Australians.

Save money now from the mining boom, pay it into a Sovereign Fund, just like Norway and a few other forward thinking countries, so, in the Future, was actually have some funds left for our children and our grandchildren?

A little bit of intergenerational equity please.

[simple1]

Aged Pension is funded via the annual budget, government made a serious error in not establishing a future fund for Aged Pension expenditure.

Yes, that would be a great idea ..

The current 'Future Fund' is to cover the unfunded government workers pensions ... so it's sort of doing that job.

But why can't the government start saving now for their employees super by setting up a Federal Super Fund for all the Public Servants, Armed Forces, Pollies etc and pay into that from the current budget so, in 20, 30 or 40 years time, the current Future Fund will be relieved of it's responsibilities to cover this the superannuation element and become a fund for all Australians.

Save money now from the mining boom, pay it into a Sovereign Fund, just like Norway and a few other forward thinking countries, so, in the Future, was actually have some funds left for our children and our grandchildren?

A little bit of intergenerational equity please.

Don't believe the assets from the Future Fund will be available for payments until 2020. In the meantime let's hope government does not interfere, as did Labor trying to withdraw hundreds of millions to cover budget shortfalls

[David48]

^^ Must admit, I don't know when it is due to pay a 'dividend'

Given it's got 80 Billion ... earning, I hope, 5% ... that's 4 billion a Year ...