Australian Aged Pension

[sceadugenga]

People can apply for an exemption.

 

2.2.5.50 Discretion to Treat a Person as Not Being a Member of a Couple for a Special Reason

http://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/2/2/5/50

[ELVIS123456]

1 hour ago, Ban Phe Dezza said:

In a nut shell yes plus she would have to be Australian resident for 35 years these days to get a full pension also you would have had to be resident in Australia for the prior 2 years or stay for two years before being eligible to come back to thailand

BTW the rate in your case is the married rate

   

From 20 March 2018	From 20 September 2017	Increase

$622.80

$613.60

$9.20 pf

Many people think it is better for a bloke to not tell CLink that they are married to a Thai lady, so that they can claim the full rate and take that back with them.  If they have already told Clink, then many people think that before returning to get the OAP that it is worth getting divorced and getting paperwork from Amphur and telling CLink, and then staying in Oz alone for the 2 years (pre or after).  It is worth about $5K per year - which over 20 years is about $100K. Up to you .

 

 

[sceadugenga]

Not informing Centrelink of a marriage, as well as being illegal, can come back to bite you.

 

In later years you may wish to return to Australia with your wife for whatever reason and Immigration will surely ask how long you have been married for, and how come Centrelink don't know about her.

[ELVIS123456]

36 minutes ago, sceadugenga said:

Not informing Centrelink of a marriage, as well as being illegal, can come back to bite you.

 

In later years you may wish to return to Australia with your wife for whatever reason and Immigration will surely ask how long you have been married for, and how come Centrelink don't know about her.

You are right and I agree. That is why I said to get a divorce at Amphur and give papwerwork to CLink and say you are single now.

 

The situation I was covering, is where the Oz bloke and Thai partner have not done the 'official' marriage registration process, involving the Oz Embassy and Thai  Foreign Affairs and an Amphur Office etc. Unless I am mistaken, under Thai law a couple is not legally married unless they officially register the marriage at an Amphur - meaning that defacto is not recognised under Thai law.  And therefore in Oz a Thai defacto relationship is not recognised as a marriage, as in Oz law only marriages recognised legally in the overseas country are recognised in Oz as being legally married, and therefore CLink does not have to be informed and the Oz bloke is under no obligation to inform them.  I know there are blokes getting the 'married' OAP rate, who have not officially registered their Thai marriage, but that would be because they have told CLink that they are married (or let it slip and didnt argue to the point).

 

I have looked for any AAT or SSAT cases on this exact issue, and could not find any - if anyone has found one please let us know. IMO a bloke in such a relationship in Thailand has no obligation to advise Clink or ATO or Immigration of that relationship (which in Oz would be a legal marriage).   Words like:  "No I am not married in Thailand"  "Yes, I am in a relationship at the moment, but that could and does change regularly"  "What her or his name is, and whwere he or she lives, and how long I have known him or her is none of your business, and you have no right to ask"  "No I am not married in Thailand"   

 

All that completely falls apart if in the future you decide to bring him/her with you to Oz as you said.  But it that case I would then register it well before the planned trip, and say it commenced on and off about a year ago (under the 12 month defacto rule in Oz) and say that we have been together full-time for about 3-4 months (ever since I told CLink and had my OAP changed to the married rate).  If you have a child, the same does not apply as obviously from well before the date of birth you were in a 'real' relationship. And the date of any adopted children would also be the same issue.

 

[David Walden]

3 hours ago, David Walden said:

Now for the 15th time please refer to Centrelink threshold for aged pension recipients. that is those that are over 65.5 Y/O and have been granted the pension..  If you are not being paid the full pension there is something you are not disclosing to people on this site which will effect you asset threshold and your payments.  Maybe you do own half a house your  estranged wife lives in, if your not living in it your half. becomes an asset.  I only give advice to issues that apply to my situation,..look at the Centrelink web site "asset thresholds for Australian Aged Pension Recipients".  It's not my opinion it is what is written there..."look and ye shall see" and bless you.

Have you looked yet...The calculations you are giving suggest you may have an asset perhaps in a family trust or you are part owner of a house your estranged wife lives in or some other assets or you may have given an inheritance away to your children, they may for the benefit of Centrelink still be a divested asset.  Many people try to hide assets in family trusts so their asset level will go down but Centrelink and the Tax man are experts of tracking down those assets.   If the trust has a million dollars in it and your mother is the trustee and you are a member of the trust along with your Mother, Dad and 2 sisters and don't take a dividend your asset might likely be $200,000 and you might not know anything about it, but it will catch up with you.

  If you are single and it is clear you have $456,750 only and nothing else whatsoever, you will get the Australian Aged Pension in full...it is much easier if that money is in Super.  But with the current Banking Royal Commission well ???

 

PS (joke)...All those nasty things you said about me only half of them are true

 

 

[David Walden]

43 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

You are right and I agree. That is why I said to get a divorce at Amphur and give papwerwork to CLink and say you are single now.

 

The situation I was covering, is where the Oz bloke and Thai partner have not done the 'official' marriage registration process, involving the Oz Embassy and Thai  Foreign Affairs and an Amphur Office etc. Unless I am mistaken, under Thai law a couple is not legally married unless they officially register the marriage at an Amphur - meaning that defacto is not recognised under Thai law.  And therefore in Oz a Thai defacto relationship is not recognised as a marriage, as in Oz law only marriages recognised legally in the overseas country are recognised in Oz as being legally married, and therefore CLink does not have to be informed and the Oz bloke is under no obligation to inform them.  I know there are blokes getting the 'married' OAP rate, who have not officially registered their Thai marriage, but that would be because they have told CLink that they are married (or let it slip and didnt argue to the point).

 

I have looked for any AAT or SSAT cases on this exact issue, and could not find any - if anyone has found one please let us know. IMO a bloke in such a relationship in Thailand has no obligation to advise Clink or ATO or Immigration of that relationship (which in Oz would be a legal marriage).   Words like:  "No I am not married in Thailand"  "Yes, I am in a relationship at the moment, but that could and does change regularly"  "What her or his name is, and whwere he or she lives, and how long I have known him or her is none of your business, and you have no right to ask"  "No I am not married in Thailand"   

 

All that completely falls apart if in the future you decide to bring him/her with you to Oz as you said.  But it that case I would then register it well before the planned trip, and say it commenced on and off about a year ago (under the 12 month defacto rule in Oz) and say that we have been together full-time for about 3-4 months (ever since I told CLink and had my OAP changed to the married rate).  If you have a child, the same does not apply as obviously from well before the date of birth you were in a 'real' relationship. And the date of any adopted children would also be the same issue.

 

If you ever want to bring your wife partner to Aus from Thailand you most likely will have to declare her as your partner...hmmmm

[GTgrizzly]

On ‎24‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 8:27 PM, keithpa said:

May have been mentioned before, dunno, not been reading all the garbage. One comment though, What if you only draw the principal , ie, your contributions of your  super,. and not the interest? Dont think that will affect what OAP u can get. Check it out.

Doesn't matter mate

Any larger withdrawals will be counted and you will be docked some of your pension

[David Walden]

49 minutes ago, GTgrizzly said:

Doesn't matter mate

Any larger withdrawals will be counted and you will be docked some of your pension

When you reach 65 or retirement age you must takeout 5% of the value each year of the balance of the super fund as at 1 st of July,  If you have $400.000 in super you have to take $20,000 or more if you wish tax free usually paid in installment as you wish.  This will have no effect on you pension you will still get the full pension...would you believe if you don't own a house you live in you will be able also to claim rent assistance, about $132 P/F also.  The compulsory download goes up to min 6% at 75 y/o.  There are very heavy financial  penalties if you don't take the required amount...about 48% tax.  There is no limit how much you can take each year but you must inform Centrelink.  This is to stop people who are over the threshold divesting there asset to be able to claim the pension.  Like putting in a Hong Kong Bank and not declaring it...."What have you done with that $200,000?"   I blew it on the pokies in Los Vagus.  Hmmm that might work?  If you give it away it will still be an asset with Centrelink.  You are allowed to reduce your assets giving it away by $10,000 per year or $30,000 now for the next 5 years.  If you give more away Centrelink will regard this as loan, even if it is never paid back and regard it as an asset, money owed to you, an investment...just my ravings so I've been told.  I have lots to contribute to this site but there is just so much misinformation I think I'll give it a Miss or a Mrs.  By By for now.

[halloween]

10 hours ago, tink2mutt said:

Yes. I think you are right. Even if it is reduced to $19,000 per annum it still makes a big difference.

Remember that the 2 years does NOT have to be continuous. Spreading the 2 years residence over 3 or 4 allows you to maintain ties and relationships much more.

[Nemises]

Remember that the 2 years does NOT have to be continuous. Spreading the 2 years residence over 3 or 4 allows you to maintain ties and relationships much more.

Halloween, can you spread the 2 years of residence over 3 or 4 years BEFORE reaching retirement age?

[halloween]

1 hour ago, Gregster said:

Halloween, can you spread the 2 years of residence over 3 or 4 years BEFORE reaching retirement age?

What I have been doing now. Regs state 2 years residence before or after, and I can't see why an Oz resident isn't allowed to take hols, especially when close to retirement age.

 

[Nemises]

What I have been doing now. Regs state 2 years residence before or after, and I can't see why an Oz resident isn't allowed to take hols, especially when close to retirement age.
 

Excellent, thanks. Don’t suppose you have a link to those regs that state 2 years residence BEFORE retirement age?

[Will27]

1 hour ago, Gregster said:

Excellent, thanks. Don’t suppose you have a link to those regs that state 2 years residence BEFORE retirement age?

I was of the opinion that the " 2 year rule" only applies if you've been living overseas and return to Oz.

 

I thought that as long as you are living in Oz and considered to be a resident by Centrelink, you can obtain the OAP pretty much straight away.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[sceadugenga]

Qualifying for the OAP is the simplest part and clearly described in the legislation, those whom Centrelink consider to be residents also get immediate portability of the payments.

[LosLobo]

11 hours ago, halloween said:

Remember that the 2 years does NOT have to be continuous. Spreading the 2 years residence over 3 or 4 allows you to maintain ties and relationships much more.

 

My interpretation of the rules is that the 2 years needs to be continuous but may be broken by short holiday periods of less than 6 weeks.

 

This applies to returning residents for both the pre and post OAP application 2 year period.

[halloween]

13 hours ago, LosLobo said:

 

My interpretation of the rules is that the 2 years needs to be continuous but may be broken by short holiday periods of less than 6 weeks.

 

This applies to returning residents for both the pre and post OAP application 2 year period.

Interesting. And just who gives CL the right to determine how long a semi-retired Oz resident's holidays can be?

[LosLobo]

25 minutes ago, halloween said:

Interesting. And just who gives CL the right to determine how long a semi-retired Oz resident's holidays can be?

 

[halloween]

3 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

 

I wouldn't like to be the MP who has to stand up in parliament to defend CL's right to restrict holiday length of near-retirees less they lose some of their rights as a pensioner.

[Goinghomesoon]

On 4/27/2018 at 3:05 AM, halloween said:

Interesting. And just who gives CL the right to determine how long a semi-retired Oz resident's holidays can be?

I believe it was legislated under the Social Services Amendment Bill around 2015 or 2016.  

So the answer to your question is that CL is simply following the law. 

[4MyEgo]

On 4/7/2018 at 3:39 PM, Gregster said:

Does anyone know a link that confirms that remaining in Aus for 2 years PRIOR to pension eligibility date guarantees residency and immediate portability?
 

Not sure if someone has answered your question as I am a little behind in reading this topic ATM, but scroll down to this

 

How we decide

 

On the link below, it might give you some insight ?

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/residence-descriptions

 

[sceadugenga]

1 hour ago, Goinghomesoon said:

I believe it was legislated under the Social Services Amendment Bill around 2015 or 2016.  

So the answer to your question is that CL is simply following the law. 

I can find no reference to this in any Amendment bills since 2013.

 

It can be Google searched through the Parliament of Australia website

[4MyEgo]

On 4/7/2018 at 3:39 PM, Gregster said:

Does anyone know a link that confirms that remaining in Aus for 2 years PRIOR to pension eligibility date guarantees residency and immediate portability?
 

This should sum it up ?

 

http://dspoverseas.proboards.com/thread/594/residency-applying-old-age-pension

[Nemises]

Sure does. Great link [emoji106]

 

Many thanks mate.

[Nemises]

Interesting. And just who gives CL the right to determine how long a semi-retired Oz resident's holidays can be?

From what I understand the semi-retired Oz resident’s holiday can be as long he wants...he just has to prove to Centrelink that he’s been travelling around and not staying at the same address for a long time.
If staying at the same overseas address for a long time, he has to prove to Centrelink that he has much stronger ties to Aus than the country he’s been “holidaying” at.

[Peterw42]

12 minutes ago, Gregster said:

From what I understand the semi-retired Oz resident’s holiday can be as long he wants...he just has to prove to Centrelink that he’s been travelling around and not staying at the same address for a long time.
If staying at the same overseas address for a long time, he has to prove to Centrelink that he has much stronger ties to Aus than the country he’s been “holidaying” at.

People often dont do themselves any favours in this regard, going out of their way to declare to CL, ATO, OZ Immigration etc, that they live in Thailand, never coming back etc.

Its a bit hard to argue the point if you wrote "leaving for good and never coming back" on your last tax return, departure card etc

[Goinghomesoon]

1 hour ago, sceadugenga said:

I can find no reference to this in any Amendment bills since 2013.

 

It can be Google searched through the Parliament of Australia website

Thought it may have been the same Budget Repair amendment that heralded the 6 week overseas rule, but perhaps I’m mistaken (not unheard of!)

[4MyEgo]

On 4/29/2018 at 12:26 PM, Peterw42 said:

People often dont do themselves any favours in this regard, going out of their way to declare to CL, ATO, OZ Immigration etc, that they live in Thailand, never coming back etc.

Its a bit hard to argue the point if you wrote "leaving for good and never coming back" on your last tax return, departure card etc

For those that didn't have a choice, i.e. when I left Oz with the wife and kids, a little hard to say, oh we are going on a long holiday and the kids will be going to a particular school.

 

Just remember, for those who don't have $'s and assets, they can go back before the 2 years, say 3 years for arguments sack with the family, kids go to new school, Mrs works part time, so do you if your fortunate enough, and when applying can convince them that as you have been back for 3 years, you are here to stay for good, kids are settled at school etc etc, and once approved, your portable and on your merry way you go back to Thailand, ah, had a change of mind, Mrs misses here country and the kids their friends, bye Centrelink, yiatta yiatta yiatta

 

Stories can be made up as you plan, but for those with kids living abroad, if you didn't say your leaving for good, they will assess you on your lies IMO, and of course there appeal processes in place.

[sceadugenga]

Interesting case, he was away for 3 1/2 years.

www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/AATA/2015/669.html

xxxxxxxxx, the Applicant, was granted the age pension from 23 June 2014. At the time his age pension was granted, he was considered to be a ‘returning former Australian resident’. The effect of that decision is that under sections 1220(1)(a), (b) and (c) of the Social Security Act 1991 the portability of his pension is likely to be affected should he seek to travel overseas within 2 years of the date he was granted the age pension. Mr Moore sought internal review by the SSAT but the decision was affirmed. He now seeks review by this Tribunal.

....................................................................................................................................................................

The Tribunal sets aside the decision under review and substitutes a decision that Mr Moore did not cease to be an Australian resident between 7 December 2010 and 21 June 2014, and as such the provisions of section 1220 of the Social Security Act 1991 do not apply in this case.

 

 

 

[rhodie]

It would seem that there are no/not many cases where the portability has been denied when the applicant "travels" as I have not seen a case for these circumstances. So if you move about overseas, but return to Australia regularly and have a home there and not anywhere else, it looks good. Just wish there was a concrete rule to abide by! 

[sceadugenga]

This guy was living and working overseas.