Australian Aged Pension

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, sceadugenga said:

.....we seem to be going in circles here, surely this conversation is better suited for elsewhere in the Home Country forum?

I thought we were in the Home Country Forum.

[sceadugenga]

Not the Age Pension thread.

[giddyup]

Just now, sceadugenga said:

Not the Age Pension thread.

Sorry, don't understand. We are in the Home Country Forum with the heading of Australian Aged Pensions, which is what is being discussed, what's the problem?

[sceadugenga]

OK, go ahead

[David Walden]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

It would cost far more than an extra $10,000 a year to support the difference in cost of living, but as I said, if it suits you do it, just don't be continually trying to justify your choice. I don't want to spend half my time in Thailand and half in Australia, I have a house a Thai partner and a comfortable life here.

This site seems to have the same old farts who spent much of their time bagging anything.  It is likely that there are many in Aus who look at my post and think Hmmmm.   That just might suite me.  I can tell you that there are at least 20 older men I know personally in Cha-am from all over the world who go back to their birth country on a regular basis...Australians more so then other countries, it's closer.  Some of these other countries are bringing in requirements that you can only be absent for 6 months to retain your pension. (as rumour has it)

[simple1]

1 hour ago, David Walden said:

Lots to think about with Gov costs when, pensioners live overseas...

I cant understand what your point is..

 

Your travel costs, concessions received, housing arrangement etc are mainly unique to living in W.A. and your personal circumstances. Accordingly irrelevant to the majority of Oz citizens, so not a basis for arguing the point on national Age Pension payments. 

 

My point is you do not have access to the end to end costings in use by government to make decisions yet make broad allegations of misinformation by government, without facts.

 

At the end of the day portability payment is authorised. I admit I fail to understand why one has to return to OZ, if living overseas, and then wait two years for portability. E.g. UK do not have this requirement. However, endless discussion of this forum will not make any difference whatsoever - take it up with your Senator.

 

Kindly do not reply further on this matter.

[giddyup]

Just now, David Walden said:

This site seems to have the same old farts who spent much of their time bagging anything.  It is likely that there are many in Aus who look at my post and think Hmmmm.   That just might suite me.  I can tell you that there are at least 20 older men I know personally in Cha-am from all over the world who go back to their birth country on a regular basis...Australians more so then other countries, it's closer.  Some of these other countries are bringing in requirements that you can only be absent for 6 months to retain your pension. (as rumour has it)

What other countries do is irrelevant, as is what other Australians choose to do. Don't be holding yourself up as some kind of guru who has convinced a lot (your words) of Aussies to follow your advice. Your suggestions may suit some, but I would guess there are many more who are quite happy to have made Thailand their home.

[David Walden]

5 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Sorry, don't understand. We are in the Home Country Forum with the heading of Australian Aged Pensions, which is what is being discussed, what's the problem?

If you read my original post on this subject you will see how relevant my post is to the Australian Aged Pension(AAP).  I simply explaining how AAP recipients can make good use of the AAP if they want to.  Have their cake and eat it too?

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, David Walden said:

If you read my original post on this subject you will see how relevant my post is to the Australian Aged Pension(AAP).  I simply explaining how AAP recipients can make good use of the AAP if they want to.  Have their cake and eat it too?

You do seem to ignore the fact that whatever financial gain might be had (concessions etc) is far offset by the extra cost of living in Australia compared to Thailand. You have pointed these facts out ad nauseum, it may suit you and some others, but a lot of us prefer living in Thailand 100% of the time. Can you accept that?

[David Walden]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Your travel costs, concessions received, housing arrangement etc are mainly unique to living in W.A. and your personal circumstances. Accordingly irrelevant to the majority of Oz citizens, so not a basis for arguing the point on national Age Pension payments. 

 

My point is you do not have access to the end to end costings in use by government to make decisions yet make broad allegations of misinformation by government, without facts.

 

At the end of the day portability payment is authorised. I admit I fail to understand why one has to return to OZ, if living overseas, and then wait two years for portability. E.g. UK do not have this requirement. However, endless discussion of this forum will not make any difference whatsoever - take it up with your Senator.

 

Kindly do not reply further on this matter.

My answer to you is that you simply have no requirement for any thing I have suggested.  I do only write posts regarding the AAP which are my own personal experiences.  There may be some different benefits available state to state in Aus but it is likely "6 of one or half a dozen of the other"

[David Walden]

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

You do seem to ignore the fact that whatever financial gain might be had (concessions etc) is far offset by the extra cost of living in Australia compared to Thailand. You have pointed these facts out ad nauseum, it may suit you and some others, but a lot of us prefer living in Thailand 100% of the time. Can you accept that?

As I've said already "you can have your cake and eat it too".  You have clearly indicated my post information is not for you but it certainly suites me and perhaps others.

[giddyup]

Just now, David Walden said:

 it certainly suites me and perhaps others.

As you have said repeatedly, and most of us have grown tired of hearing about what suits you. I could mount an equally convincing argument as to why it  benefits me more to remain in Thailand full-time, but I prefer to let people make their own choices.

[David Walden]

9 minutes ago, giddyup said:

As you have said repeatedly, and most of us have grown tired of hearing about what suits you. I could mount an equally convincing argument as to why it  benefits me more to remain in Thailand full-time, but I prefer to let people make their own choices.

I think your latest idea is your best idea so far.      "I could mount an equally convincing argument as to why it benefits me more to remain in Thailand full-time, but I prefer to let people make their own choices."  your quote, never a truer words spoken.  My experience is just different.

PS it would be nice to get some comments on the contents of my original post.  So far just bagging by the same old gang.

Edited June 23, 2018 by David Walden

[4MyEgo]

On 6/21/2018 at 5:31 PM, ELVIS123456 said:

 

The liquid assets waiting period is between 1 and 13 weeks.

 

It applies if you have funds equal to or more than:

1. $5,500 if you’re single with no dependants, or
2. $11,000 if have a partner or you’re single with dependants

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/liquid-assets-waiting-period

 

However, the last Budget changed these amounts from 20 September 2018:

 

This measure will increase the maximum Liquid Assets Waiting Period from 13 weeks to 26 weeks from 20 September 2018.

Currently a person’s liquid assets (such as cash on hand, bank account balances, shares or term deposits), if high enough, will affect how long they need to wait before receiving certain payments.

The waiting period starts to apply at $5,500 for a single person with no dependent children and $11,000 for couples or a single person with a dependent child.

Under this measure, the maximum 26 week waiting period will apply where a person’s liquid assets reach $18,000 for a single person with no dependent children and $36,000 for couples or a single person with a dependent child.

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/organisations/about-us/budget/budget-2017-18/jobseekers/liquid-assets-waiting-period-increasing-self-reliance

 

When you first apply they require you to provide details and the current balances in all your (and wife's) bank accounts.

Dont apply if the money in bank accounts is above those amounts - withdraw and use/store the cash well in advance.

They can ask for statements of account balance and activity going back for a while - but they usually do not.

They are only really interested in those with large amounts in a bank account trying to claim Newstart.

 

Damn, looks like I am going to have to purchase a unit in my daughter name at least 5 years prior and take out a contract with her, i.e. that she owes me the money, singed in front of the solicitor and that she will sell the unit in 5-6 years and give me my money back, all costs, i.e. stamp duty, solicitors fees, capital gains tax if any will just come off the cream, and of course will have to give her something for her troubles ?

[4MyEgo]

4 hours ago, LosLobo said:

I wish you the best of luck!

Thailand's lack of palliative care was always a worry for me.

Investing into a good Thai wife will sort your problems, finding one is as rare as a needle in a haystack though, you have time on your hands, and only invest as much as your prepared to lose.

 

The one I found, is beautiful, is in love with me, as I am with her, she cooks like a chef, cleans like a team of maids, is thrifty when it comes to spending, but not on quality food, is great in bed, almost killed me once....lol, and has already told me that she is going to employ some young nurses for me when I am in the wheelchair, because she ain't going to be the one to jetblast my you know what.

 

I know, off the topic, sorry !!!

[4MyEgo]

On 6/21/2018 at 4:03 PM, ELVIS123456 said:

While waiting for the pension, with the plan for immediate portability once obtained, I am getting Newstart (and the Thai wife works part-time).  Once you are over 60 you can withdraw Super at any time - whether working or not (in most Funds) - and it is tax free.  For those under 60 but over 55 they can retire when they hit 'preservation age', but that only applies to some now (maybe none) as the Govt has withdrawn this option for most people (I took it up some years ago before they changed it). 

Hey ELVIS 123456

 

I know this may be a little of the topic, however just want some clarification if possible as I am a couple of years off 60 and although do not require my super, will more than likely take it as its tax free at 60 or over, and invest it in the ASX where my other money is which earns me a good tax free $'s here as a non resident, and is more than enough to live on.

 

For those under 60 but over 55 having reached preservation age, my understanding is they can take their super, although I believe the newest change is 58 years of age, but please don't quote me, that said, if the super is in a taxed fund (rare), the is no tax payable at preservation age, however if its in a non taxed fund, its approximately 16c to the $ if your an Australian Resident, or 32.5c to the $ if your a Non Resident like myself, hence the reason I won't be touching it till I reach 60, Buddha willing.

 

I was having a drink with this nice Aussie bloke the other day, and I just couldn't reach him, he was adamant that he was returning to Australia having reached preservation age and that he was taking his super because he didn't have to pay any tax on it.

 

Am I missing something, or am I spot on, as always....lol

Edited June 23, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[moojar]

Hi 4MyEgo,

 

I'm glad you asked, coz I thought the under-60 limit was a total of $180k tax free, but it's actually $200k according to ASIC:

Quote

Lump sum withdrawals

If you are aged 60 or over, any withdrawals from a taxed super fund are tax-free. Different rates may apply to untaxed funds, such as government super funds.

If you access your super before age 60 you may pay tax on withdrawals. You can withdraw up to the low rate threshold, currently $200,000, tax-free. This is a lifetime limit and is indexed annually. The threshold does not include the tax-free portion of your super account, which will be returned to you tax-free. Any amounts over the low rate threshold will be taxed at 17% (including Medicare Levy) or your marginal tax rate, whichever is lower.

https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/superannuation-and-retirement/how-super-works/tax-and-super

 

Preservation age is currently being increased to 60.  It's 56 or 57 at the moment, and will be 60 by 2024 (?).

 

Birthday / Preservation age

Before 1 July 1960 - 55    

1 July 1960 – 30 June 1961 - 56

1 July 1961 – 30 June 1962 - 57

1 July 1962 – 30 June 1963 - 58

1 July 1963 – 30 June 1964 - 59

From 1 July 1964 - 60

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/super/accessing-your-super/

 

If you were born on 1 July 1964 you'd be turning ... 54 next week, so you'd currently be six years away from your preservation age (60).  I tried to figure out what the current preservation age is and what it will be in eight days time (on 1 July), but it just made my head hurt.  

 

 

 

 

 

[ELVIS123456]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Damn, looks like I am going to have to purchase a unit in my daughter name at least 5 years prior and take out a contract with her, i.e. that she owes me the money, singed in front of the solicitor and that she will sell the unit in 5-6 years and give me my money back, all costs, i.e. stamp duty, solicitors fees, capital gains tax if any will just come off the cream, and of course will have to give her something for her troubles ?

The problem with that idea, as I see it, is that when she sells it and gives the money back to you, that amount of money will be very hard to hide. And whilst you have a Contract (for an inbterest free loan) that is classified by CLink as an Asset.  Sure they wont eassily find out, but if they ever do then you are toast.

Plus of course things go wrong and sometimes these things dont go the way intended.

I cant see that is something I would recommend.

[ELVIS123456]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Hey ELVIS 123456

 

I know this may be a little of the topic, however just want some clarification if possible as I am a couple of years off 60 and although do not require my super, will more than likely take it as its tax free at 60 or over, and invest it in the ASX where my other money is which earns me a good tax free $'s here as a non resident, and is more than enough to live on.

 

For those under 60 but over 55 having reached preservation age, my understanding is they can take their super, although I believe the newest change is 58 years of age, but please don't quote me, that said, if the super is in a taxed fund (rare), the is no tax payable at preservation age, however if its in a non taxed fund, its approximately 16c to the $ if your an Australian Resident, or 32.5c to the $ if your a Non Resident like myself, hence the reason I won't be touching it till I reach 60, Buddha willing.

 

I was having a drink with this nice Aussie bloke the other day, and I just couldn't reach him, he was adamant that he was returning to Australia having reached preservation age and that he was taking his super because he didn't have to pay any tax on it.

 

Am I missing something, or am I spot on, as always....lol

Once you reach preservation age then you can take out a certain amount of money from Super, as long as you declare you have retired and you are not working, ans dont intend to do so.

 

The preservation age was 55 but it is being increaased to 60 -  as follows:

 

Date of birth	Preservation age
Before 1 July 1960	55
1 July 1960 – 30 June 1961	56
1 July 1961 – 30 June 1962	57
1 July 1962 – 30 June 1963	58
1 July 1963 – 30 June 1964	59
From 1 July 1964	60

Preservation age is not the same as pension age.

 

The amount you can withdraw 'tax free' once you reach preservation age and before you are 60 is as follows:

 

Lump sum withdrawals

If you access your super before age 60 you may pay tax on withdrawals. You can withdraw up to the low rate threshold, currently $200,000, tax-free. This is a lifetime limit and is indexed annually. The threshold does not include the tax-free portion of your super account, which will be returned to you tax-free. Any amounts over the low rate threshold will be taxed at 17% (including Medicare Levy) or your marginal tax rate, whichever is lower.

 

Once you reach preservation age, you can withdraw as much as you like - but only the first $200K will be tax free.  Once you reach 60, you can withdraw all of your Super tax free.

 

But keep in mind that the 'taxable component' of your Super withdrawals will be classified by ATO as taxable income (but not taxed), so if you have other earnings that will be taxed at the rate above that amount.  And if/when you are on the Pension it is classified by CLink as income and it will affect how much Pension you get paid.

 

The 'taxable component' is the concessional amounts paid into Super by you and your employer (meaning not taxed much). Any monies you may have input into Super (post-income tax money) are non-concessional amounts and when taken out they are 'non taxable' component and are not counted as taxable income by ATO or CLink.  

 

Unless you are in a Govt Fund it is very unlikely that your Super Fund is untaxed - meaning they paid no tax when depositing your Super payments and no tax on the earnings.  Over 95% of Super Funds pay tax on the deposits and on the earnings of your money in the fund (while you are in accumulation phase).  

 

Many SMSF are non taxed, but I am assuming you dont have your own Super Fund.

 

The problem in investing in the ASX as a non-resident is that you will be liable to pay tax at 32% and up, from dollar one you earn.  There are people who have fully franked divided shares, but I would be reluctant to go that way now because Labor has already said they will tax that for foreign residents, and the Libs will probably introduce that one day too.  The problem is that if either does and you have money invested that way, moving it out and keeping it quiet from CLink/ATO will not be easy - and it will be bad if they ever catch you.

 

My advice is to always plan to minimise your payments and maximise your receipts, but to only bend the rules and not to deliberately knowingly break them - it is not worth being caught.

If you bend (or slightly break) then you can always plead ignorance and apologise - but if you break the rules knowlingly they will nail you.

 

PS - Just saw that moojar has already answered the question - Ditto ?

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by ELVIS123456
twice

[LosLobo]

4 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Lump sum withdrawals

But keep in mind that the 'taxable component' of your Super withdrawals...….when you are on the Pension ...is classified by CLink as income and it will affect how much Pension you get paid.

 

For the life of me I could not find anything to support this statement.

 

Though I did find this :

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/superannuation/27271#a3

 

NB Both their withdrawal examples will not affect pension payments as the money would have already have been deemed when it was in the superannuation account.

When you reach age pension age

We count your superannuation

• in the assets test - the value is the balance on your latest statement
• in the income test under the deeming rules

When you withdraw it

Taking money out of superannuation doesn’t affect payments from us. But what you do with the money may. For instance we’ll count it in your income and assets tests if you:

• use it to buy an income stream
• put it in the bank

Edited June 23, 2018 by LosLobo

[LosLobo]

8 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Investing into a good Thai wife will sort your problems, finding one is as rare as a needle in a haystack though, you have time on your hands, and only invest as much as your prepared to lose.

 

The one I found, is beautiful, is in love with me, as I am with her, she cooks like a chef, cleans like a team of maids, is thrifty when it comes to spending, but not on quality food, is great in bed, almost killed me once....lol, and has already told me that she is going to employ some young nurses for me when I am in the wheelchair, because she ain't going to be the one to jetblast my you know what.

 

I know, off the topic, sorry !!!

Lucky man!

Sorry when I was talking about palliative care I particularly meant the pain management component, Thailand does not seem to have the western approach to this.

 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

13 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Lump sum withdrawals

If you access your super before age 60 you may pay tax on withdrawals. You can withdraw up to the low rate threshold, currently $200,000, tax-free.

 

I like the sound of that, i.e. less than $200,000, no tax

 

13 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Once you reach preservation age, you can withdraw as much as you like - but only the first $200K will be tax free.  Once you reach 60, you can withdraw all of your Super tax free.

 

So I can take out up to $200,000 now and pay no tax, wait to 60 to get the balance and pay no tax.

 

I was born after 1960, and based on the above, I could take out up to $200k without paying any tax as I have reached preservation age according to my calculations.....hmm, things must have changed since I last spoke to my accountant a few years ago, because he said as a non resident I would pay 32.5c in the $.

 

Will send him an email now and see what he says, because if I can take that amount out, without paying tax, I would be better off investing it.

 

 

13 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

The problem in investing in the ASX as a non-resident is that you will be liable to pay tax at 32% and up, from dollar one you earn.  There are people who have fully franked divided shares, but I would be reluctant to go that way now because Labor has already said they will tax that for foreign residents, and the Libs will probably introduce that one day too.  The problem is that if either does and you have money invested that way, moving it out and keeping it quiet from CLink/ATO will not be easy - and it will be bad if they ever catch you

 

Just to clear the air on the tax component here, its 32.5% if you hold a shares that are unfranked, meaning the company doesn't pay the tax on it when it pays you the dividend, like a fully franked dividend share does, i.e. pays the tax before it pays you your dividend (tax paid), so long as you sell the unfranked share before it pays its unfranked dividend you won't pay tax on it, unless you want to hold the share while it rises, pays its unfranked dividend and you pay the tax of 32.5% on it, remember, there is no capital gains tax payable on shares, and so as long as you stay within the boundaries of fully franked dividends your ok as far as no tax is payable.

 

I understand what your saying about Labour and Liberal thinking to start charging foreigners tax on investing in the ASX, but personally, I can't see that happening, for the reason being, that a hell of a lot of money would leave the ASX which would not be good for a lot of Australian companies, perhaps an ASX crash would happen.

 

So I am not fussed about their talk on this, besides the money to be made in the ASX is very good if you invest wisely, especially as there is no "current" tax payable for foreign residence, especially when you convert the money made to live in Thailand.

 

The difference is cut and dry, i.e. if I held onto my property, I would be paying 32.5% in tax, plus water and council rates, annual foreign resident land tax, levies if strata titled, insurances, maintenance, agents management fees, agents reletting fees, advertising fees, taking vacancy factors into consideration (if any), accountants fees and finally capital gains tax when you sell, so when you add the above, your at 50% plus and that doesn't take into capital gains tax into consideration because it only comes into play when you sell, so when you sell, it could go as high as 60%-70%-80% annualised, whereas the ASX is zero $, I know it sounds crazy, but it is the only loophole there is out there for us Xpats who may have some coins from all those hard years of working and being fortunate enough to have purchased property as an investment or place to live in, then being forced to sell because of the ATO's residency laws.

 

Getting rid of the funds as least 5 years prior, applying for the AAP as it is now referred to, and then getting the funds back, might be a bit sticky as you said in another post of mine, will just have to keep chipping away at the blackboard for fresh ideas, maybe a trust for the kids, the accountant will have to come up with some brainstorm idea I guess, Singapore perhaps, then back here in Thailand, who knows, not far off, 4 years to get rid of it, and no, will not be sending you guys any, nothing to do with trust 555

[David Walden]

16 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Once you reach preservation age then you can take out a certain amount of money from Super, as long as you declare you have retired and you are not working, ans dont intend to do so.

 

The preservation age was 55 but it is being increaased to 60 -  as follows:

 

Date of birth	Preservation age
Before 1 July 1960	55
1 July 1960 – 30 June 1961	56
1 July 1961 – 30 June 1962	57
1 July 1962 – 30 June 1963	58
1 July 1963 – 30 June 1964	59
From 1 July 1964	60

Preservation age is not the same as pension age.

 

The amount you can withdraw 'tax free' once you reach preservation age and before you are 60 is as follows:

 

Lump sum withdrawals

If you access your super before age 60 you may pay tax on withdrawals. You can withdraw up to the low rate threshold, currently $200,000, tax-free. This is a lifetime limit and is indexed annually. The threshold does not include the tax-free portion of your super account, which will be returned to you tax-free. Any amounts over the low rate threshold will be taxed at 17% (including Medicare Levy) or your marginal tax rate, whichever is lower.

 

Once you reach preservation age, you can withdraw as much as you like - but only the first $200K will be tax free.  Once you reach 60, you can withdraw all of your Super tax free.

 

But keep in mind that the 'taxable component' of your Super withdrawals will be classified by ATO as taxable income (but not taxed), so if you have other earnings that will be taxed at the rate above that amount.  And if/when you are on the Pension it is classified by CLink as income and it will affect how much Pension you get paid.

 

The 'taxable component' is the concessional amounts paid into Super by you and your employer (meaning not taxed much). Any monies you may have input into Super (post-income tax money) are non-concessional amounts and when taken out they are 'non taxable' component and are not counted as taxable income by ATO or CLink.  

 

Unless you are in a Govt Fund it is very unlikely that your Super Fund is untaxed - meaning they paid no tax when depositing your Super payments and no tax on the earnings.  Over 95% of Super Funds pay tax on the deposits and on the earnings of your money in the fund (while you are in accumulation phase).  

 

Many SMSF are non taxed, but I am assuming you dont have your own Super Fund.

 

The problem in investing in the ASX as a non-resident is that you will be liable to pay tax at 32% and up, from dollar one you earn.  There are people who have fully franked divided shares, but I would be reluctant to go that way now because Labor has already said they will tax that for foreign residents, and the Libs will probably introduce that one day too.  The problem is that if either does and you have money invested that way, moving it out and keeping it quiet from CLink/ATO will not be easy - and it will be bad if they ever catch you.

 

My advice is to always plan to minimise your payments and maximise your receipts, but to only bend the rules and not to deliberately knowingly break them - it is not worth being caught.

If you bend (or slightly break) then you can always plead ignorance and apologise - but if you break the rules knowlingly they will nail you.

 

PS - Just saw that moojar has already answered the question - Ditto ?

 

Taxation returns are submitted as self assessment and you make a declaration that it correct.  In other words the Tax man takes your word that all is correct.  If you get it wrong you pay the penalty...ignorance is no excuse for tax mistakes and you pay the fine.

Edited June 24, 2018 by David Walden

[David Walden]

13 hours ago, LosLobo said:

Lucky man!

Sorry when I was talking about palliative care I particularly meant the pain management component, Thailand does not seem to have the western approach to this.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=palitive+care+in+thailand...perhaps something to look at here?

[ELVIS123456]

14 hours ago, LosLobo said:

For the life of me I could not find anything to support this statement.

 

Though I did find this :

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/superannuation/27271#a3

 

NB Both their withdrawal examples will not affect pension payments as the money would have already have been deemed when it was in the superannuation account.

When you reach age pension age

We count your superannuation

• in the assets test - the value is the balance on your latest statement
• in the income test under the deeming rules

When you withdraw it

Taking money out of superannuation doesn’t affect payments from us. But what you do with the money may. For instance we’ll count it in your income and assets tests if you:

• use it to buy an income stream
• put it in the bank

I hear you that it is not easy to find, and not one financial adviser told me about this issue - maybe because I was not on the pension yet.

 

I assume the deeming income and asset for money held in Super when on the pension is clear.

 

I can assure you that a Super withdrawal is assessed as income by Clink when you are on the pension (been planing this a long time) - it is not when on Newstart and other payments.

I will find the relevant info on web later and post it (crook today) - but for now, be aware that if you take money out of Super it has to go into a bank account in your name (or a cheque that you will need to bank).  I remember someone trying to hide it by signing the cheque to someone else, but they got caught - CLink is entitled to know everything that is relevent about your financial and employment and social situation, when you are receiving the pension.  Banking records are easily obtained by CLink and they have access to your Super records too.

 

[ELVIS123456]

5 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I like the sound of that, i.e. less than $200,000, no tax

So I can take out up to $200,000 now and pay no tax, wait to 60 to get the balance and pay no tax.

I was born after 1960, and based on the above, I could take out up to $200k without paying any tax as I have reached preservation age according to my calculations.....hmm, things must have changed since I last spoke to my accountant a few years ago, because he said as a non resident I would pay 32.5c in the $.

Will send him an email now and see what he says, because if I can take that amount out, without paying tax, I would be better off investing it.

Yes you can - guaranteed - unless you have a 'special' Super Fund that imposes its own limits/conditions on withdrawals.

Been there and done that many times since I turned 55 (born in 50s).

 

5 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Just to clear the air on the tax component here, its 32.5% if you hold a shares that are unfranked, meaning the company doesn't pay the tax on it when it pays you the dividend, like a fully franked dividend share does, i.e. pays the tax before it pays you your dividend (tax paid), so long as you sell the unfranked share before it pays its unfranked dividend you won't pay tax on it, unless you want to hold the share while it rises, pays its unfranked dividend and you pay the tax of 32.5% on it, remember, there is no capital gains tax payable on shares, and so as long as you stay within the boundaries of fully franked dividends your ok as far as no tax is payable.

 

I understand what your saying about Labour and Liberal thinking to start charging foreigners tax on investing in the ASX, but personally, I can't see that happening, for the reason being, that a hell of a lot of money would leave the ASX which would not be good for a lot of Australian companies, perhaps an ASX crash would happen.

 

So I am not fussed about their talk on this, besides the money to be made in the ASX is very good if you invest wisely, especially as there is no "current" tax payable for foreign residence, especially when you convert the money made to live in Thailand.

I hear you and this is something to decide for each persaon - keep watching things for sure.  If Labor wins the next election that will attempt to introduce it.

 

5 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

The difference is cut and dry, i.e. if I held onto my property, I would be paying 32.5% in tax, plus water and council rates, annual foreign resident land tax, levies if strata titled, insurances, maintenance, agents management fees, agents reletting fees, advertising fees, taking vacancy factors into consideration (if any), accountants fees and finally capital gains tax when you sell, so when you add the above, your at 50% plus and that doesn't take into capital gains tax into consideration because it only comes into play when you sell, so when you sell, it could go as high as 60%-70%-80% annualised, whereas the ASX is zero $, I know it sounds crazy, but it is the only loophole there is out there for us Xpats who may have some coins from all those hard years of working and being fortunate enough to have purchased property as an investment or place to live in, then being forced to sell because of the ATO's residency laws.

 

Getting rid of the funds as least 5 years prior, applying for the AAP as it is now referred to, and then getting the funds back, might be a bit sticky as you said in another post of mine, will just have to keep chipping away at the blackboard for fresh ideas, maybe a trust for the kids, the accountant will have to come up with some brainstorm idea I guess, Singapore perhaps, then back here in Thailand, who knows, not far off, 4 years to get rid of it, and no, will not be sending you guys any, nothing to do with trust 555

Yep - talk to the adviser - lots of options not even discussed I am sure.  I decided to kiss and stick to Super - because I will be living in both countries once I get the pension and the wife gets residency/citizenship.

 

[ELVIS123456]

3 hours ago, David Walden said:

Taxation returns are submitted as self assessment and you make a declaration that it correct.  In other words the Tax man takes your word that all is correct.  If you get it wrong you pay the penalty...ignorance is no excuse for tax mistakes and you pay the fine.

I hear you - but the ATO issues are fairly open and transparent, so if someone stays across things on their websites it should be all good.  The reason is that ATO rules and regs apply to all traxpayers evenly - and the ATO publishes decisions and clarifications.

 

Clink however interprets the rules and regs for every situation, and decisions do not apply to everyone.  They do not publish all their decisions and provide full clarifications - more often than not someone has to argue (to CLink, to SSAT and to AAT) that CLink's interpretations were wrong.  

 

You can ask ATO a hypothetical and they will, if they can, provide a decision.  ATO provides 'training and resources' for the financial industry (by Law) - accountants/advisers/lawyers etc.

 

Clink do not answer hypothetical - they demand you make an application and tell you they will then and only then assess and make a decision.  There is no 'social welfare' industry of advisers available to the public - only in house CLink people.

 

[4MyEgo]

18 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Yes you can - guaranteed - unless you have a 'special' Super Fund that imposes its own limits/conditions on withdrawals.

Been there and done that many times since I turned 55 (born in 50s).

 

That's music to my ears, have sent off an email to the accountant just to get his confirmation, and if its a yes, will consider taking the tax free threshold amount out.

 

Cheers

[ELVIS123456]

28 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

I can assure you that a Super withdrawal is assessed as income by Clink when you are on the pension (been planing this a long time) - it is not when on Newstart and other payments.

I will find the relevant info on web later and post it (crook today) - but for now, be aware that if you take money out of Super it has to go into a bank account in your name (or a cheque that you will need to bank).  I remember someone trying to hide it by signing the cheque to someone else, but they got caught - CLink is entitled to know everything that is relevent about your financial and employment and social situation, when you are receiving the pension.  Banking records are easily obtained by CLink and they have access to your Super records too.

 

Buggered if I can find the link - but it is there somewhere.

 

The link provided is the generic CLink rules/regs about income for all payments.  When you are on the pension it changes fro many things, including Super withdrawals - but I cant find that link.  Head not good I guess, but to back it up I can assure you that if you have $300K in Super and are on the Pension, if you withdrew $100K CLink would stop your pension payments - it would be classified as income. 

 

 

 

[ELVIS123456]

29 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

That's music to my ears, have sent off an email to the accountant just to get his confirmation, and if its a yes, will consider taking the tax free threshold amount out.

 

Cheers

Dont forget to declare it in your tax return for this/next year - it will be taxable income, but the tax will be offset to zero.  

Ask him toicheck out if a medicare payment is required - my understanding is that it will for such a large amount - but things may have changed and I could be recalling that incorrectly.

So far I have taken out over $300K from Super - did a chunk before I was 60 and a couple of bigger chunks since then. 

No tax - so far - this year is a biggie, so maybe Medicare Levy is payable - not sure - but it wont be much.