To Procreate Or Not?

[rixalex]

Starting a family seems to me much like jumping into a pool of icy water. The longer you stand at the edge the harder it gets to take the plunge (I think the same analogy can be true for getting married).

Young people seem to often dive staight in without too much thought. Conversely, older people maybe over think it all (speaking for myself anyway). Of course those that do sire can't imagine life without the little nippers.

As much as the thought of having kids to me seems over-whelming, the thought of not would feel like i had somehow failed in life.

Please, i'm not looking to be inundated with mushy comments about how people only live for their families - how they make their lives complete... yawn yawn yawn.

Rather, I'm interested to know about those who have made the decision, not forced out of circumstance, to "abstain". Is it possible to live a life happy and fulfilled without having ticked the procreation box?

[Lilawadee]

I think it depends on your personal situation.

And then, if you plan to do this in Thailand then there's additional things to think about, both positive and negative.

Negative: Thailand really isn't a place for kids. Young kids can't play outside because of dogs, speeding motorcycles, drunk dudes in their pick-ups.. It just isn't a safe place, any kind of safety standard OR even the slightest sense of responsibility seems to have been surgically removed from this country.

Negative: International schools are insanely expensive. Really beyond any sense whatsoever.

But there are positives as well; maids & nannies are affordable, so you can still have somewhat of a life even with kids.

[siamamerican]

Starting a family seems to me much like jumping into a pool of icy water. The longer you stand at the edge the harder it gets to take the plunge (I think the same analogy can be true for getting married).

Young people seem to often dive staight in without too much thought. Conversely, older people maybe over think it all (speaking for myself anyway). Of course those that do sire can't imagine life without the little nippers.

As much as the thought of having kids to me seems over-whelming, the thought of not would feel like i had somehow failed in life.

Please, i'm not looking to be inundated with mushy comments about how people only live for their families - how they make their lives complete... yawn yawn yawn.

Rather, I'm interested to know about those who have made the decision, not forced out of circumstance, to "abstain". Is it possible to live a life happy and fulfilled without having ticked the procreation box?

Hmmm, are you happy? If not, having a kid doesn't seem like a rational response. If you are happy, then you answered your question. Life for me has been full feeling and I don't have any children. Of coarse it is possible.

[GuestHouse]

It seems a bit of a one sided question to me.

On the assumption that because this is an expat/Thailand website we are for the most part discussing the issue in relation to western guys with Thai women, it becomes necessary to consider what the the Thai woman's perspective might be.

In a society without welfare, and where close and extended family provide for the welfare of aging parents, a Thai woman may view children not so much as a 'Nice to have/Nice not to have' but as a necessity of life.

This is in contrast with the western view of children being a commodity, a bit like any other 'oobject' attached to one's life.

[calibanjr.]

My Thai wife (been together for 5 years, married for 1.5) wants one with me, but isn't freakishly insistent. She has two sons, 5 and 8, whom I support. I think she feels like a child of ours would cement our relationship, which I personally consider as terminal anyway. As an overly-analytical secular humanist neurotic to the nth degree, I'm wimping out on it (I'm 41) on a permanent basis. She ain't punished me yet, as far as I know!

I do, however, enjoy, uh, "practicing" with her, as much as possible, still.

Edited January 13, 2008 by calibanjr.

[jumnien]

At age 47 having a child was the best thing that ever happened to me. I had the ultimate fear of that cold water for so, so long and now I love the stuff. I want another quick. The little fellow is 2.5 years old and has taken so much pressure from my life.

[Chang_paarp]

Having kids is a personal thing. I waited until I was almost 40 because I was not ready. The lack of willing partners also had something to do with it too.

It was good for me, kept me sane at a time when all around me went to sh1t. Then the relationship with the mother followed, now I get to speak to my son when my Ex is in a good mood, or when he is with his grandmother as I live in a different part of the world. Feel good today because I got to speak with him for the first time since Christmas.

[micksterbs]

Well, I didn't have my first (and, so far, only) child until I was 36 but boy, I'm glad I did. She's 15 in a few days. Lives back in Blighty with her mum and her new bloke. They all came over here for Songkhran and we had a great time. TW wants to start a family one day as she's only 26. I do feel broody now and then, I must admit, but I don't feel as driven as her, I have to say. Not surprising seeing as how I'm already a parent.

Also, like Lilawadee, I wouldn't be too chuffed sending him/her to the average Thai school as I really don't rate the education system here. Not because I'm elitist or any nonsense like that. Just don't agree with the way they're trained to think or rather, not to.

[jetjock]

Starting a family seems to me much like jumping into a pool of icy water. The longer you stand at the edge the harder it gets to take the plunge

I can very much relate to what you are saying as I have waited so long to take the plunge that it has now become the most difficult decision I now also have to make in my life. If my decision only affected me, it would be easy to make because I am extremely happy and my life is so wonderful that it would not make sense to tamper with it at this stage of my life since I am 66 years young. However since I have a young Thai wife and I am getting the feeling that having a child would give her much happiness and a greater sense of fulfillment to her life, I am now thinking that it is now the time to jump into the icy waters and have a child. I am not worried about the 'not being there to grow up with your child' argument since almost everyone in my family seems to reach close to the century mark. I am not worried about 'being too old to do fun things with a child argument' as I am in top shape and plan to keep running and playing sports till I am gone. The only really important thing to me at this point in the game is to make my wife as happy as possible now and do the things that will help her to have a happy life after I am gone.

You can see from my rationalizations above that I understand the difficulty involved in making such a difficult decision. Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

[britmaveric]

If you only think of yourself perhaps not a good idea to have lil ones.

[thaiman]

Is it possible to live a life happy and fulfilled without having ticked the procreation box?

Yes!

My opinion if you do procreate is to have a lot of money. That way most all problems that arise can be solved.

[ade100]

It’s a great topic. I am 43 and am having to seriously face this question as are many of my friends. My head says it’s the dumbest idea possible. All logic says no to babies. But then some of my friends who have had them say it’s the most wonderful thing that has ever happened to them. Can we really say no to “the most wonderful thing” life has to offer? Yes we can. But should we? I don’t know. Sorry I have no answers to this…

[seonai]

I never wanted to have children, ever. I felt it was not good to bring a child into this crazy world. But then it happened and although it's incredibly hard work, it's wonderful to have this person in your life who you know you produced and to explore childhood with them in a way that you probably didn't - keeps you young... makes your hair white quicker... makes you laugh and cry... but that child loves and needs you and that, in turn gives you a feeling that you can't even have with your partner (unless you are ultra cool) - Unconditional Love ... oh it goes on and on... the feeling of wanting to protect your offspring, meeting other parents who understand that little Johnny won't eat vegetables... blah blah blah

Go for it !!!!!

[jazzbo]

Assuming you are a Western guy with a Thai wife, and your concern is the best thing that can happen to your child as opposed to the best thing that ever happened to ME, take your wife down to a sperm bank in Bangkok and let the child have a real Thai father... especially if your wife is young enough to be your daughter.

BritM: If you only think of yourself perhaps not a good idea to have lil ones

[wamberal]

The greatest single regret of my life is not having children. I married late, my wife and I were open to the possibility of her falling pregnant, but she didn't.

Maybe the risk is in leaving it too late, as I obviously did.

The urge to procreate is at the centre of most of nature, including ourselves.

[thaiclan]

Starting a family seems to me much like jumping into a pool of icy water. The longer you stand at the edge the harder it gets to take the plunge

I can very much relate to what you are saying as I have waited so long to take the plunge that it has now become the most difficult decision I now also have to make in my life. If my decision only affected me, it would be easy to make because I am extremely happy and my life is so wonderful that it would not make sense to tamper with it at this stage of my life since I am 66 years young. However since I have a young Thai wife and I am getting the feeling that having a child would give her much happiness and a greater sense of fulfillment to her life, I am now thinking that it is now the time to jump into the icy waters and have a child. I am not worried about the 'not being there to grow up with your child' argument since almost everyone in my family seems to reach close to the century mark. I am not worried about 'being too old to do fun things with a child argument' as I am in top shape and plan to keep running and playing sports till I am gone. The only really important thing to me at this point in the game is to make my wife as happy as possible now and do the things that will help her to have a happy life after I am gone.

You can see from my rationalizations above that I understand the difficulty involved in making such a difficult decision. Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

What a lovely post! I thought the last of the Gentleman had left.....

All the best to you, your lucky wife and you much loved children yet to be.

[siamamerican]

It’s a great topic. I am 43 and am having to seriously face this question as are many of my friends. My head says it’s the dumbest idea possible. All logic says no to babies. But then some of my friends who have had them say it’s the most wonderful thing that has ever happened to them. Can we really say no to “the most wonderful thing” life has to offer? Yes we can. But should we? I don’t know. Sorry I have no answers to this…

I'm 40 and I'm determined not to have kids. Life has been good to me and anticipate even better times ahead. Never met someone that thought their children weren't the most wonderful thing that happened to them, but would a person admit otherwise? Having a child, I assume, is life changing. I know I would sacrifice any of my wants so that my child could have a better life. Knowing this, I'm going to do my utmost to not procreate.

[grtaylor]

International schools are insanely expensive. Really beyond any sense whatsoever.

I don't think you'll find them much cheaper in any other expat environment.

G

[Monroe]

Assuming you are a Western guy with a Thai wife, and your concern is the best thing that can happen to your child as opposed to the best thing that ever happened to ME, take your wife down to a sperm bank in Bangkok and let the child have a real Thai father... especially if your wife is young enough to be your daughter.

Why would having a Thai biological father be any better that a Western one, or vice versa? If anything, being fully related to both parents would be more conducive to a good relationship.

I can understand maybe lacking ability to relate with either side (i.e. too Western for Thailand, too asian for the West), but how difficult is it, really?

[jazzbo]

A real Father, a real Marriage of the parents, and a real loving family are just that; and being a Thai person growing up in Thailand is IMHO most always the preferable situation... and it is practicing the Dhamma of selflessness.

[scotwumman]

Disagree with most posts. I am in the happy position of being 62 years old the mother of one who admits he is too selfish to have

a child and anyway his marriage went wrong but he never wanted children and neither did his ex british wife. For my part my

parents had six children me the eldest and only girl had too much responsibility for my siblings, which is why I understand and

relate to the female side of Thailand culture. Only have a child if you can live with the thought that that they could be deprived, bullied

or be an underachiever if you cannot provide total commitment to their wellbeing, education and environment.

[dominique355]

I think it depends on your personal situation.

And then, if you plan to do this in Thailand then there's additional things to think about, both positive and negative.

Negative: Thailand really isn't a place for kids. Young kids can't play outside because of dogs, speeding motorcycles, drunk dudes in their pick-ups.. It just isn't a safe place, any kind of safety standard OR even the slightest sense of responsibility seems to have been surgically removed from this country.

Negative: International schools are insanely expensive. Really beyond any sense whatsoever.

But there are positives as well; maids & nannies are affordable, so you can still have somewhat of a life even with kids.

Thailand not a place for kids? I can't agree with you. It's one of the best places on Earth to have kids, at least while they are young. Everybody loves kids here, just look at yesterday's Kids' Day. I have never seen anything remotely similar in Europe. We moved to Thailand 2 years ago after having lived in Switzerland and believe me, it is 10 times easier to have kids here. Of course, i don't live right on a busy main street where kids cannot play outside. I live in a small village (moo baan), actually in a dead end street and as soon as the school buses arrive in the afternoon, it's play time on the street and our 2 boys join.

Of course, International schools do cost, but that's the same in any country. I found them to be way better than government schools in my country of origin (Switzerland), so the expenses are worth it.

And yes, nannies are affordable and we are lucky to have a really great nanny for our kids.

Now, if you should or should not have kids ... follow your guts. Don't do anything you might regret later, it's mainly the kids who suffer from such a "wrong" decision. But then again, which parent has ever been prepared for what's coming? To have kids for "cementing" an ailing relationship is wrong IMO, it won't work.

[villagefarang]

Rather, I'm interested to know about those who have made the decision, not forced out of circumstance, to "abstain". Is it possible to live a life happy and fulfilled without having ticked the procreation box?

The wife and I have a wonderful life without kids of our own. Plenty of other's kids around.

There is a strong biological imperative working on most people but we have a brain so we can make choices and not be a slave to our hormones or social and cultural pressure.

That said, it isn't up to all of us. It is something that has to be worked out between you and your woman. I am hopeful you have the sense to make the right choice for you.

[PeaceBlondie]

As the father of six, and soon to be the grandfather of eleven, let me say that it is not necessary to have children. I know many single and married folks who do fine without children. I know many people who regret having children, or who regret doing all the extra work that child rearing involves. Even the 'biological imperative' is to have sex, not to get pregnant, and modern science has divided those two functions. Just as some people don't need much sex, others don't need children. I suggest that you only have children if you know you and your spouse can devote the TIME to raise them as good citizens of the world. If you don't have enough time to spend with them, the quality of zero time is zero.

[popshirt]

..........and having more than two children in today's overpopulated consumer world is not really responsible behaviour IMHO.

[swain]

I have one little girl about 7 months she is just about to stand for herself. I love her and cant imagine life without her now. Though I don't think I want another child but somehow I know we will have another. I am writing this listening to Burt and Ernie singing "I don't want to live on the moon" Sesame street, Elmo and big bird same things I grew up with except they don't have the cookie monster anymore .. I heard the sugar addition is not PC so they dumped him.

Have LOADS of time and PILES of cash and alot of patience .. be a happy person and have a control on your temper, be prepared to give up your ideas on privacy and you will be half way there... The other half is being committed to staying married and working on your relationship even when you feel its time for the dumpster. Being FRIENDS with your partner as well as lovers. Read EVERYTHING about what is happening with your child, food, vaccinations, crib or sleeping with mommy and daddy etc.. The internet has made being an informed parent MUCH easier.

Do I recommend having a child.. If your asking the question I think the answer is no.. when its no longer a question ... thats the time to consider having a child.

[Heng]

If you add to your children's education at home, they are much more likely to run circles around those whose families rely on the local education system. Thai-Indians and Sikhs and the Thai Chinese have known this for quite awhile now and the results show.

It's easy to blame the 'substandard system,' but parents themselves are just as much to blame IMO for not preparing their children for the world.

Heng Jr. is now 9 months old and 11 kgs., looking forward to creating a baby sister or brother for him in April.

[t.s]

Do I recommend having a child.. If your asking the question I think the answer is no.. when its no longer a question ... thats the time to consider having a child.

of all i have read, this is the only thing that i agree with 100%.

hengs remark that you are responsible for supplementing your childs education, rather than complaining that the education available is substandard also rings true.

Edited January 15, 2008 by t.s

[teatree]

Next time you are out shopping have a good look at the faces of husbands with babies strapped to their backs, pushing pushchairs with their wives in tow. That should answer the question of the OP.

[Heng]

^ From what I've seen I'd say it's an even mix between the happy and the miserable. Planned/unplanned + prepared/unprepared adds a lot to the end result. Not saying that unplanned and unprepared must = unhappy, but I'd say you're nudging the odds in that direction if that's the way you go.