3 Estonian men involved in violence on Pattaya Walking Street

[sbk]

Since according to the Estonian newpaper account no one has died, maybe someone can change the thread title?

koheesti, do you have a link? I do realize it won't be in English.

Topic title ammended to show correct report.

[meadow]

Since according to the Estonian newpaper account no one has died, maybe someone can change the thread title?

koheesti, do you have a link? I do realize it won't be in English.

Topic title ammended to show correct report.

I gave the link quite in the beginning of this thread, but here it is again: http://www.ekspress.ee/2008/01/21/eesti-uu...elus-taiendatud

At the bottom of the article, there is an update saying that the Honorary Consul and the Foregin Ministry has confirmed that the injured guy is in the hospital but ALIVE, and not in life-threatening condition.

[onlooker]

Within the last 7 days I witnessed one single man being beaten by 5 or more Thais in the exact location Walking street soi 15 at about 1am. What worried me most is that I hung around for several minutes and not one Police officer arrived on the scene.

So you didn't call the police then? Why not? Or did you just expect them to show up automatically?

What would worry me most is that a fellow farang witnesses the scene and doesn't make any attempt to contact the police.

Edited January 22, 2008 by onlooker

[bulmercke]

Britmaveric beat me to it on this one. I don't understand why everybody is slagging the Thais.

Who's slagging Thais? Not all Thais are like the cowardly and morally corrupt mob here on Walking Street that decided to join in with their mates and beat the living sh*t out of some farangs simply because they were farangs.

This was NOT an unprovoked attack, these idiots decided to go back to take them on, and got what any reasonable person over here would expect.

So in other words, if you are a foreign tourist who is seriously wronged by a Thai and the Police will not help you, do not expect to stand up for yourself without getting annihilated by a bunch of Thai men who decide to attack you for no other reason than you are a farang and they are sticking up for their Thai mates? Hardly paints a pleasant picture for prospective tourists to the LOS does it now??

Yes they are cowards, and yes 5 on one is the norm, but would you go looking for a fight in any other foreign country and not expect the locals to back each other up?

Let's examine the logic of this for a tick... Sweetchariot, I do not know what country you come from or your racial background, nor do I care to be honest. However, hypothetically, if you went down to your local pub/bar and saw a bunch of guys who were from your own race and lived in your area beating the living sh*t out of two Thai men, would you join in and land a few punches and kicks on the Thais yourself without knowing the reason for the altercation?

Hypothetically if I see some local Romper Stompers (Neo Nazis) in my area beating some Asian guys to a bloody pulp should I join in because they are the same race as I am, regardless of the fact that I don't share their political convictions or racist tendancies, or even know the motives behind beating them up? Because let's face it, there is little or no difference between this scenario and what occured on walking street that night.

The only difference is of course, the morals or lack there of. i.e. In the above scenario rather than help the Neo thugs, I'd be calling the Police or at least try and help the Asian guys getting beaten by trying to break up the fight etc. Where were the Morals on Walking Street that night?

And please... spare me the bullsh*t about cultural differences between Thai and Western Society. Every cultural background has at least some basic moral principles and ideas of right and wrong.

I'm actually sick and tired of Farangs sticking up for Thais in issues like these as if they were a poor, downtrodden persecuted race! It's about time Farangs stood by one another instead of looking at it from the predudiced and xehophopic Thai viewpoint. After all, they stick together regardless of whether they're in the wrong. So should we!

Good point.

[sweetchariot]

So in other words, if you are a foreign tourist who is seriously wronged by a Thai and the Police will not help you, do not expect to stand up for yourself without getting annihilated by a bunch of Thai men who decide to attack you for no other reason than you are a farang and they are sticking up for their Thai mates?

Yes

Yes they are cowards, and yes 5 on one is the norm, but would you go looking for a fight in any other foreign country and not expect the locals to back each other up?

Let's examine the logic of this for a tick... Sweetchariot, I do not know what country you come from or your racial background, nor do I care to be honest. However, hypothetically, if you went down to your local pub/bar and saw a bunch of guys who were from your own race and lived in your area beating the living sh*t out of two Thai men, would you join in and land a few punches and kicks on the Thais yourself without knowing the reason for the altercation?

Hypothetically if I see some local Romper Stompers (Neo Nazis) in my area beating some Asian guys to a bloody pulp should I join in because they are the same race as I am, regardless of the fact that I don't share their political convictions or racist tendancies, or even know the motives behind beating them up? Because let's face it, there is little or no difference between this scenario and what occured on walking street that night.

I said FOREIGN country - that usually means one you don't live in

[britmaveric]

The day you actually live here, your perception of the place will change.

Defender of the Realm = Pfffff

Well I have lived here mate, and your opinion is no more valid than mine even if I hadnt lived here - your opinion again is no more valid than mine.

Get over it - if you can't get it through your thick head that poor judgment by the estonians resulted in this murder or beating. (according to latest report the estonian lad is alive in the hospital) Did he deserve what he got - No, but what did he expect would happen if he went back??

Edited January 22, 2008 by britmaveric

[aehn]

Let's examine the logic of this for a tick... Sweetchariot, I do not know what country you come from or your racial background, nor do I care to be honest. However, hypothetically, if you went down to your local pub/bar and saw a bunch of guys who were from your own race and lived in your area beating the living sh*t out of two Thai men, would you join in and land a few punches and kicks on the Thais yourself without knowing the reason for the altercation?

Hypothetically if I see some local Romper Stompers (Neo Nazis) in my area beating some Asian guys to a bloody pulp should I join in because they are the same race as I am, regardless of the fact that I don't share their political convictions or racist tendancies, or even know the motives behind beating them up? Because let's face it, there is little or no difference between this scenario and what occured on walking street that night.

The only difference is of course, the morals or lack there of. i.e. In the above scenario rather than help the Neo thugs, I'd be calling the Police or at least try and help the Asian guys getting beaten by trying to break up the fight etc. Where were the Morals on Walking Street that night?

The difference of course is that these Thais knew each other whereas you don't know the guys in the pub or the neo nazis. Different scenario.

And also, you probably dont see thousands of asian guys with loads of money compared to you, usually very drunk, not seldom also loud and obnoxious, thinkin they own your local pub, grabbing the "local" girls in front of your nose.

If you saw this year after year, i am sure some uneducated local farangs would start to get pissed at these rich, drunken, obnoxious know-it-all-asians too.

[britmaveric]

Funny thing... I have never hear of this sort of problem between the local foreigners & the local Thais so...

Fully agree

Agreed because we know better and as I stated previously you want trouble you will attract it like a magnet - anywhere in the world. Add alcohol to the mixture and well you will have a problem.

[aehn]

Don't discuss about it anymore you know the result of fight with locals anywhere in the world Thailand, UK or hel_l

Best advice you can get, don't fight with the locals. Especially not in the red light districts of the world.

Best advice, if you dont want to get hurt, or run the risk of getting hurt, avoid fighting.

Yeah, it´s rocket sience, isn´t it?.

Edited January 22, 2008 by aehn

[farang2002]

The incident, which is now a murder investigation, occurred only meters away from the Tourist Police Unit.

So the guys didn't want to go in the bar, the Thais got hostile, the guys make a complaint and are told to take it to the police station.

Basically a big FO.

The guys get angry and return to sort it out themselves as they see that the authorities aren't interested.

They are outnumbered 5 to 1, viciously beaten and one murdered within metres of the Tourist police point and no one is held responsible.

What a f@cking sick country Thailand has turned into.

You can try and rationalise it or compare it with other countries problems, but this is an all time low.

Sad, but when sex tourism is the prime business of a city the lowest forms of life congregate and these things are more likely to happen. Drugs, alcohol and sex are a recipe for all kinds of trouble...

(FYI: I include myself among "the lowest forms of life")

[moskito]

And what would happen if 3thaimen would pick a fight with some doormen at a stripjoint in estonia/russia ?

Thailand is one of the safer places i know of, unless you act like an ass....

Still sad....but this is what happens all th time...usually with only thais involved though...

never been here for a longer period than a week thougt

some month ago tourists were hit down with machetes or baseballbats from motobikes during night time at Phuket on the way from Nai Harn to Kata Karon....not only one, it was near every f@cking night....a Norwegian died an english man and a german girl were dangerously hurt, all were robbed......

a week ago a Farang male was robbed and stabbed to death in front of an ATM mashine in early morning at Rawai beach

EVERY single night there are break ins in our houses here in Phuket....3 times in my house in just ONE YEAR....

read newspapers like the Phuket Gazette to be up to date before posting Thailand is SAFE

WHAT A SAVE COUNTRY Thailand is......IT WAS SAVE, before everybody always wants more than the neighbor got.

For sure it is not a solution to close down shitholes like Pattaya and Patong....where do all the pimps and crimanals go after

[neion2000]

Well its unfortunate for the estonian man, but pretty stupid behaviour on their part. They go back and decided to fight??? Logic says I am a foreigner in another country, perhaps not good idea to do such a thing.

Anyways - stupid behaviour in Thailand can cost you quite dearly - you want trouble you will certainly find it in spades.

I have read your posts for a few years now and you constantly go on about the foreign side being in the wrong. You work offshore and are here now and again.. You live a fly in and have a good time type thing and then fly out, so you are not a true judge of people living here daily.

The Thais are in the wrong for a killing a man, so why not at least bring that up in your "this is Thailand" speel that you seem to cling to. The day you actually live here, your perception of the place will change.

Life aint that sunny day to day and at the end of the day, the foreigners were treated poorly because they changed their minds about going into a place. The should not have gone back granted, but they didnt deserve to die.

Defender of the Realm = Pfffff

My opinion is if you go back for a fight, when you had the opportunity to avoid it, then what ever happens, happens!! These idiots most likely assumed they would confront some small weak Thai dudes without thinking that something bad could happen to them.. Besides, as it was explained that the only thing these guys did was change their minds about going into this club, who knows what really happened that made the Thai's upset? I've walked down/gone into most of the bar/clubs on that street, never had a problem, even when I'm asked to go into a club that I had no intention of going into, all I did was smile and say no thank you.. I'm going esle where...

A few years back in Jomtien, I was walking on the beachside of the road with two other Farangs, one of my buddies saw a nice looking Thai chick, all he said was hello to her when this little Thai dude came out of no where and started yelling at us, saying that she was his girlfriend and told us to "F" off and would not stop talking shit.. We were already about a block away, when one of my friends said, lets go back and kick this dudes ass, but common since told us, this dude is not alone, so we kept on walking.. Did I feel like we got punked? Nope, we just thought it was pretty funny and LIVED to see another day, or maybe in the worse case, we avoided killing him and us going to jail...

I'm not pro Thai or pro Foreigner... I just read most of these post and have come to the conclusion that the Thai's are always getting blamed when things go wrong..

Edited January 22, 2008 by neion2000

[burman]

A few years back in Jomtien, I was walking on the beachside of the road with two other Farangs, one of my buddies saw a nice looking Thai chick, all he said was hello to her when this little Thai dude came out of no where and started yelling at us, saying that she was his girlfriend and told us to "F" off and would not stop talking shit.. We were already about a block away, when one of my friends said, lets go back and kick this dudes ass, but common since told us, this dude is not alone, so we kept on walking..

And without picking on your post Neion, there is a nice bit of evidence that farangs like to fight when they out number the other guy too.

Edited January 22, 2008 by burman

[neion2000]

I'm actually sick and tired of Farangs sticking up for Thais in issues like these as if they were a poor, downtrodden persecuted race! It's about time Farangs stood by one another instead of looking at it from the predudiced and xehophopic Thai viewpoint. After all, they stick together regardless of whether they're in the wrong. So should we!

The most ignorant thing I've ever heard!!!

[jenniferjuniper]

Walking Street is a notorious red light district that attracts sex tourists and perverts from all parts of the world. The place is teaming with whores, pimps, drug addicts, thieves, muggers, pick pockets, scam artists and violent criminals, many carrying knives or guns.

Areas such as these, be they in Los Angeles, Berlin, Hamburg, Amsterdam or wherever are going to be dangerous places to be if you cross the locals.

I am not defending what happened, and maybe if it had occurred elsewhere the thugs might have used a bit more restraint to ensure they didn't have a murder on their hands. But this is a 3^rd world country, where the police are in league with the criminals and corruption rules.

So frankly what else could you expect if a few foreigners decided to take on the locals? The result was inevitable, and would be so almost anywhere in the world in similar circumstances in a similar environment.

Walking Street is a cesspit, and if you decide to enter the pit you have to be prepared for the possible outcome. There are plenty of decent places in Thailand where you can walk around and enjoy life in relative safety.

RIP to the unfortunate victim

I could count on one hand the number of times I and the missus have been up Walking Street and 3 of those times was to access the Blues Factory.

Sure there are pole bars and all that but to sensationalise it as a street of shame riddled with danger is just an exaggeration and something the typical tabloid journalist might churn out.

The great majority wandering up and down are just rubber necking tourists taking in the atmosphere.Add to the mix groups of lads from just about anywhere in the world having a few beers and laughs and ordinary couples off to the clubs for a bop( can't remeber the names but I think there were 2, didn't stay long 'cos the music was hippity hop and all drums and tizz) brushing shoulders with Russian tour groups and dopy Koreans and what have you. Never saw any perverts but I s'pose their labels must have dropped off by the time they had finished with their perverting.

In a way its exciting and everyone I have seen seemed to all enjoy it for what it obviously is.

The cops looked to be on top of things and were there most of the night. Mind you when it gets to half past chucking out time they seemed to have all disappeared but most cops do that when they think its going dead. 'Spect they need a break anyway after the night's hassle dealing with the drunks and heated domestics.

This fight could have happened anywhere and ended like all rucks fuelled by booze and dope. The Thais ganging up is typical but most bouncers look out for their own don't they? The only difference in Thailand is that the silly buggers always go over the top and tool up with something nasty.

Walking Street is not a cesspit and anyone who thinks different probably hasn't been there much or has led bit of a sheltered life.

[moskito]

can anyone answer my question I asked 5 pages ago, please ???

has somebody heard of an arrest in the case of the two russian tourist girls who were shot at pattaya in the early morning hours in their beach chairs ???????

or has something changed in pattaya since ?? more police on the streets? ...or do we just forget everything after some days?

[britmaveric]

can anyone answer my question I asked 5 pages ago, please ???

has somebody heard of an arrest in the case of the two russian tourist girls who were shot at pattaya in the early morning hours in their beach chairs ???????

or has something changed in pattaya since ?? more police on the streets? ...or do we just forget everything after some days

Yes the MIB caught a suspect and believe he's on death row. Mind you I think he was a fall guy for smth more nefarious going on, but like most crime in Thailand, virtually goes unsolved.

[mikethevigoman]

Estonian man dies following attack on Walking Street

PATTAYA: -- A disturbing incident occurred on Walking Street in the early hours of Sunday Morning which was initially dealt with by the Tourist Police based on the street. Three men from Estonia made a complaint at the Tourist Police Mobile Unit regarding a confrontation with three Thai Men in Soi 15. It is thought the men were being ushered into a Show Bar but decided at the last minute that they did not want to go.

The Thai men became angry and a fight ensued. The men were told to make their way to Pattaya Police Station to make a report, however they decided to take matters into their own hands and went back to confront the Thai men. It is thought that more than 15 men set-upon the three Estonian Men.

One managed to run away, a second was hit over the head with a steal pole and a third man was stabbed in the leg with a broken bottle. A major artery in his leg was severed and he was rushed to Hospital. Later on Sunday he died from the injury according to medical staff at the Pattaya Memorial Hospital.

The incident, which is now a murder investigation, occurred only meters away from the Tourist Police Unit and is now being investigated by Pattaya Police and the Tourist Police as the hunt for the attackers continues. We understand that as of Monday Afternoon, no arrests had been made in connection with the attack.

Pattaya city News

monday 21st January 2008

How will the newspaper get over the heeadline that he was died ! beyond belief,

[jenniferjuniper]

Maybe his moniker was Lazarus?

[thaigene2]

Rule 1. Pick another destination.

Funny I hear they said nice things about you before they were attacked and KILLED

Better hope it's not you next time pal. Or we'll all be saying the same about you. I live here too, and I have a right to tell the world this place is f+cked up if I want to do so. It's time the world knows - cause it's the only way the Thai authorites will act. Make noise - cause nothing else will work. They're too busy forming a government to enrich themselves - just like every other government has done for the last 70 years. That's why there are so many hot girls dancing in bikinis for you on Walking Street and <deleted> outside waiting to cut you up - who else can they take it out on? Not the hi-so chinese-thais that's for sure..

[neion2000]

can anyone answer my question I asked 5 pages ago, please ???

has somebody heard of an arrest in the case of the two russian tourist girls who were shot at pattaya in the early morning hours in their beach chairs ???????

or has something changed in pattaya since ?? more police on the streets? ...or do we just forget everything after some days?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=140732

[basjke]

Walking Street is a notorious red light district that attracts sex tourists and perverts from all parts of the world. The place is teaming with whores, pimps, drug addicts, thieves, muggers, pick pockets, scam artists and violent criminals, many carrying knives or guns.

Areas such as these, be they in Los Angeles, Berlin, Hamburg, Amsterdam or wherever are going to be dangerous places to be if you cross the locals.

I am not defending what happened, and maybe if it had occurred elsewhere the thugs might have used a bit more restraint to ensure they didn't have a murder on their hands. But this is a 3^rd world country, where the police are in league with the criminals and corruption rules.

So frankly what else could you expect if a few foreigners decided to take on the locals? The result was inevitable, and would be so almost anywhere in the world in similar circumstances in a similar environment.

Walking Street is a cesspit, and if you decide to enter the pit you have to be prepared for the possible outcome. There are plenty of decent places in Thailand where you can walk around and enjoy life in relative safety.

RIP to the unfortunate victim

I could count on one hand the number of times I and the missus have been up Walking Street and 3 of those times was to access the Blues Factory.

Sure there are pole bars and all that but to sensationalise it as a street of shame riddled with danger is just an exaggeration and something the typical tabloid journalist might churn out.

The great majority wandering up and down are just rubber necking tourists taking in the atmosphere.Add to the mix groups of lads from just about anywhere in the world having a few beers and laughs and ordinary couples off to the clubs for a bop( can't remeber the names but I think there were 2, didn't stay long 'cos the music was hippity hop and all drums and tizz) brushing shoulders with Russian tour groups and dopy Koreans and what have you. Never saw any perverts but I s'pose their labels must have dropped off by the time they had finished with their perverting.

In a way its exciting and everyone I have seen seemed to all enjoy it for what it obviously is.

The cops looked to be on top of things and were there most of the night. Mind you when it gets to half past chucking out time they seemed to have all disappeared but most cops do that when they think its going dead. 'Spect they need a break anyway after the night's hassle dealing with the drunks and heated domestics.

This fight could have happened anywhere and ended like all rucks fuelled by booze and dope. The Thais ganging up is typical but most bouncers look out for their own don't they? The only difference in Thailand is that the silly buggers always go over the top and tool up with something nasty.

Walking Street is not a cesspit and anyone who thinks different probably hasn't been there much or has led bit of a sheltered life.

Am I missing something?

[JatoThai]

Patatya is the most dirty town in theworld ,people sell drugs same as a candy but why no one do something , what is the police they doing here???????????? i been to walking street many times and i always see many bad things . drugs fighting everytimes..Am just some thai girls and i see things here i just cant eccept things a round here.all thai man that been killed this guide they are deserve to die or in jell forever , rule should be more strong not just only give money and shut up .......... thailand is a nice country but why people do thing same as the animals ??????????i just hope that one day thai goverment will think more and do something more for our country not just coraption and take money .....we are the human not the animals ............are you???????????????????????????????????????

Think about if that someone in your family .

[lormdav]

It seems quite natural that some Thais working in the sleaze pit of Thailand, after supressing so much anger at having to put up with incorrigible, decadent, mindless, violent - the list goes, i've been there a few times - foreigners will vent their ill feeling towards tourists when they have a chance, i.e. when they don't throw the first stone and so won't lose face.

It's easily discernible in some places, the resentment towards foreigners. Maybe if you worked in a bar - was paid peanuts - in your own country and had to put up with richer, drunker, taller foreigners with filthy mouths and hardly any respect for your culture and traditions, you might also wait for the day to give them a right kicking. I'm not accusing the Estonians of anything, just making a point that Pattaya does attract many people like this and so certain Thais are waiting for a chance to get back.

What happened is terrible . . . but sadly, it is understandable. It happnes more often than ever up here (CM) and it will keep happening. The only places i go where the old Thai smile is real is 'baan nork' . . . where we have yet to mess up, stain and tempt with gold coins. We are like a disease to them at times . . . globalisation is not welcome either, no one wants to change, but still, it won't stop happening . . . and they know they need our money, because they have come to rely on it . . . and need our western luxuries . . . they too are greedy and so like an addiction, they need us . . .but ideally - as a whole, not as singulars - we are hardly welcome by the majority, an addiction is usually not ideal . . . if it weren't for our money, we wouldnt be welcome, look at the visa stipulations, we are not welcome without cash, the provisos stuck to the office board at immigration states this.

Like i said, you need only compare this to a similar situation in your own country . . . an invasion of people with different ideals, religion, manners etc . . . shouting at you in their language that you don't understand, dragging your young girls around like dogs on a leash . . . throwing money at you to keep you quiet . . . i actually think the Thais, in general, are very tolerant . . . but maybe tolerance is just suppression and an explosion is always around the corner. I'm not making an excuse for the people that take it out on foreigners, they should know better, should adhere to some personal ethic and get over the resentment . . . but they don't and that is why this happens.

So what to do? Christ knows, ride out the wave and try and keep out of bother.

been in thailand for yrs ,never had any real problems. i know the culture respect the traditions and dont shout my mouth off.

theres no smoke without fire.

[paulnuek]

I have spent many an evening in ws and have never seen anything like this before.

Ws in no sleazier than the rest of Pattaya and many families tend to walk up and down on an evening.

The 3 men should not have gone back to confront these men, but they also did not deserve what happened.

Lets find out which gogo this was and every Thaivisa member should boycott this establisment!!!!

Hit them where it hurts---in the wallet not the balls....

[bunker2121]

You can try and rationalise it or compare it with other countries problems, but this is an all time low.

I agree - Walking Street is a sleazy place.

Well, I beg to differ. I lived/worked here (Pattaya) for 16 years and always take friends/family visiting from overseas down to the walking street. We always come away with pain in our cheek-muscles from laughing.

It's a funny place; a true study in human behaviour, but I would not call it a "sleazy" place. Besides: what are you comparing it to ? ? ?

You wanna do "sleazy" go and have a look at the Rheperbahn in Germany, or the red-light-district in Amsterdam !

So Mr. "jimmy-the-mook" think again, okay - before you insult totally innocent people (and/or their city-parts) of being "sleazy".

[snip]

I totally agree. So many negatives! In any cultures there are sensitivities that one must be aware. I have lived in Pattaya, have a shop in Soi Diamond and yes there is a Thai way of doing things and if one does not respect this then you will be singled out one way or another. People drag all their dam_n pre-conceptions with them wherever they travel it seems. I doi not know the details of what happened but I would say that the foreigners cross a line that they were unaware of which is really a "dumb ass" thing to do.

Bunker2121

[schvonsky1]

You can try and rationalise it or compare it with other countries problems, but this is an all time low.

I agree - Walking Street is a sleazy place.

Well, I beg to differ. I lived/worked here (Pattaya) for 16 years and always take friends/family visiting from overseas down to the walking street. We always come away with pain in our cheek-muscles from laughing.

It's a funny place; a true study in human behaviour, but I would not call it a "sleazy" place. Besides: what are you comparing it to ? ? ?

You wanna do "sleazy" go and have a look at the Rheperbahn in Germany, or the red-light-district in Amsterdam !

So Mr. "jimmy-the-mook" think again, okay - before you insult totally innocent people (and/or their city-parts) of being "sleazy".

[snip]

so you say u'v been here 16 yrs well put ur glasses on as if you had noticed 16yrs ago pattaya was nice now it is hel_l i agree jimmy mook is kind of right in a way parts of pattaya is sleazy certainly not the nice part of the kingdom ok them guys ought to knew the thais can't box eggs and fight in big no.s sp bad luck for the guy that died should have gone in equipped just like the thais work alot of english both girls and guys have been murdered here within the last ten years like i say 16 yrs ago it was'nt like this just remember boy they dont give a shit about you just your paper so wake up !!

[tattoodrob]

I have spent many an evening in ws and have never seen anything like this before.

Ws in no sleazier than the rest of Pattaya and many families tend to walk up and down on an evening.

The 3 men should not have gone back to confront these men, but they also did not deserve what happened.

Lets find out which gogo this was and every Thaivisa member should boycott this establisment!!!!

Hit them where it hurts---in the wallet not the balls....

trouble is it wont hit the thai guys wallets as not there gogo,they can just move on to another one if they havent already.id rather kick em in the balls

[JSPS]

Pattaya has changed a lot since I first visited it 1968. At that time there was one hotel, 3 restaurants and one real bar. If you wanted companionship you needed to bring it with you. All the directions were given from "the tree" ie go to the tree and turn left or right. Now I can't even find the tree.

No Russians, just Americans from Utapao, Sam'e San and the R&R Center. The water was so clear that you couldn't tell if the bottom was 1 meter or 10 meters deep. We would load up with beer and hot dogs from the R&R center PX and hire a boat to take us out to the islands.

Fun days.

I couldn't beleive it the last time I was back. (2002) Cars, smog, traffic, more traffic, filthy beach, foul water.

It's horrible now.

In those days, we would always tell the new guys that you could probably take care of that skinny Thai guy all right, but what are you going to do about the other 25? We had one guy who was a loudmouth and a Golden Gloves boxer in the U.S. Just for the hel_l of it we put him in the ring with one of our Thai civilian pole linemen. We didn't tell him that Boonsie was the Sattahip providence champion. It was a fair fight. He spent most of his time wondering what just hit him. It quieted him down. Don't play the other guy's game.

Keep your head and be willing to walk away. It's gotten me out of more than one tight spot. Usually because I was drinking too much and going places that, if I were sober, I would never have considered. But still. I have also a hel_l of a lot of very nice people. Thailand is still the only place where I have been walking down the street and get invited to a New Years or Songkran party by people that I had never met before.

Geat people. Thai's will celebrate Tuesday if it means a party. Too bad about Pattaya.

[Robski]

Rule 1. Pick another destination.

Funny I hear they said nice things about you before they were attacked and KILLED

Better hope it's not you next time pal. Or we'll all be saying the same about you. I live here too, and I have a right to tell the world this place is f+cked up if I want to do so. It's time the world knows - cause it's the only way the Thai authorites will act. Make noise - cause nothing else will work. They're too busy forming a government to enrich themselves - just like every other government has done for the last 70 years. That's why there are so many hot girls dancing in bikinis for you on Walking Street and <deleted> outside waiting to cut you up - who else can they take it out on? Not the hi-so chinese-thais that's for sure..

Crikey! Who rattled your cage?

I'm not sure what end of the stick you've got there, so I'll just say that I have lived in Pattaya too.

Regrding some of the other posts, times have changed so maybe the policing methods should too.