3 Estonian men involved in violence on Pattaya Walking Street

[mikethevigoman]

OK guys lets calm it down and remember the forum rules.

You started it ! ( the topic ) good init

[mikethevigoman]

Ive just come back from Pattaya and not 3 weeks ago a very drunk Danish boy was kicked to death in soi diamond,off walking street by the doormen and taxi boys.New Years eve i was in a niteclub called Insommnia in marine plaza when a fight between 3 farlang and every thai man in the place erupted ensuing over the top violence with hundreds off bottles being smashed on there heads and everyone elses,no one could get out ov the way because the place was so packed so at least 6 people ended up hospital with glass cuts including my friend and his Thai girlfriend who took one in the face resulting in 23 stitches to her now scared for life face.These idiots are employed by the venues to keep the peace not to murder and maim the paying customers it is a disgrace.The thing that makes me laugh is these little muppets couldnt fight there way out ov a paper bag on there own thats why they alwaya gang beat you,i would love them to try these tactics back here in the uk they would more than likely get a taste ov there own medicine.One more thing why was the murder ov the Danish boy in soi diamond not reported in the news,i saw nothing maybe Howard was to busy being robo cop down walking street and did not notice that we the paying customer are getting murdered on are holidays.

Bottles should be outlawed in Pattaya. Pattaya dwellers are too immature to handle bottles. Give them plastic baby bottles to suck on.

All the Thai punks associated with those bars where people get assaulted should be rounded up and put in detention for 6 months. The bars in question should be shut for 6 months. Tourist police and the brown shirts should be compelled to do their jobs - at least to some degree.

Good the hear the Estonian didn't die from his wound. I'd like to hear on this forum from the guys who were beaten up.

As for Thai police doing the right thing and handing out heavy justice to the gang fighters. It's about as likely as Thaksin getting elected Pope. Even if there were mobile phone videos with recognizable faces, Thai authorities wouldn't give it any credence.

Funny you should say that, the pubs /clubs in my home town of Torquay did serve alcohol in plastic containers in the 70s because of glassing/bottling,,, Oh how things have changed Edited January 23, 2008 by mikethevigoman

[Kerryd]

With something like 5 million tourists visitng Pattaya every year (TAT estimates), you're always going to have a (large) percentage of them that have very little common sense to begin with, coupled with ignorant attitudes and copious amounts of alcohol = trouble looking for a place to happen.

Take it from me my friend that boy was kicked around soi diamond like a football and about 4 ov my mates see it from the top ov the stairs from heaven above a go go so if you think murder is funny then f..k you and as for your little news from pattaya city news its thais kicking the crap out ov one thai,nothing new.I wil search the net for more proof and get back to you

You got a problem there buddy ?

First you say this guy was murdered, but there's no news anywhere I can find about it. Maybe you'll have better luck.

Now it sounds like he was getting beaten up quite bad, but again, no news that I can find. (ps: How do you know he was Danish ?) Hmmm, I can't seem to find anything relating to a tourist (of any nationality) getting beaten up, injured, assaulted or murdered on soi Diamond.

As you (or your buddies) witnessed this, did you (or they) make a statement to the police ?

As for the linked stories, they were meant to show that when fights happen in Thailand, even among the Thais themselves, it is often an out-numbered situation (not just when farangs are involved).

As for the last part. I've spent about 18 of the last 36 months living in Pattaya. A lot of that time is spent partying in various establishments around town, sometimes by myself, sometimes with my Thai or farang friends. In all that time, I've never had a problem. I think that is probably because I do use some common sense, and (generally) have a good attitude, even when I'm (almost) falling down drunk. I'm usually up and down all those sois (14, 15, Diamond, Lucky, BJ, 16) a couple of times a week, and never had any problems.

How ever, there are a lot of people that are the opposite, and get a couple of them together with some liquid courage and you end up with trouble. I used to see a lot of that while I was in the army, not just in Canada, but Germany, Croatia, Hungary, and the States as well. Always the same story. Some guys with attitudes who get brave when they've been drinking and have friends that think/act the same.

I don't think murder is funny, but I do tend to have a morbid sense of humour at times. Maybe it comes with working in this place for the last couple of years. I've lost count of how many funeral parades I've been on, and that's just for my fellow countrymen. Maybe that's why I look forward to getting back to Pattaya from the moment I leave there, just to get away from all the death and destruction here.

[britmaveric]

kerryd is quite correct thai on thai violence is far more prevalent then the odd farang getting hammered on. Funny thing is most of it goes unreported unlike when smth happens to us high profile farang.

Another thing to ponder .... u notice that most of long term expats, or long term visitors seem to avoid any trouble. Why do you think that is?????

[moo9]

With something like 5 million tourists visitng Pattaya every year (TAT estimates), you're always going to have a (large) percentage of them that have very little common sense to begin with, coupled with ignorant attitudes and copious amounts of alcohol = trouble looking for a place to happen.

Take it from me my friend that boy was kicked around soi diamond like a football and about 4 ov my mates see it from the top ov the stairs from heaven above a go go so if you think murder is funny then f..k you and as for your little news from pattaya city news its thais kicking the crap out ov one thai,nothing new.I wil search the net for more proof and get back to you

You got a problem there buddy ?

First you say this guy was murdered, but there's no news anywhere I can find about it. Maybe you'll have better luck.

Now it sounds like he was getting beaten up quite bad, but again, no news that I can find. (ps: How do you know he was Danish ?) Hmmm, I can't seem to find anything relating to a tourist (of any nationality) getting beaten up, injured, assaulted or murdered on soi Diamond.

As you (or your buddies) witnessed this, did you (or they) make a statement to the police ?

As for the linked stories, they were meant to show that when fights happen in Thailand, even among the Thais themselves, it is often an out-numbered situation (not just when farangs are involved).

As for the last part. I've spent about 18 of the last 36 months living in Pattaya. A lot of that time is spent partying in various establishments around town, sometimes by myself, sometimes with my Thai or farang friends. In all that time, I've never had a problem. I think that is probably because I do use some common sense, and (generally) have a good attitude, even when I'm (almost) falling down drunk. I'm usually up and down all those sois (14, 15, Diamond, Lucky, BJ, 16) a couple of times a week, and never had any problems.

How ever, there are a lot of people that are the opposite, and get a couple of them together with some liquid courage and you end up with trouble. I used to see a lot of that while I was in the army, not just in Canada, but Germany, Croatia, Hungary, and the States as well. Always the same story. Some guys with attitudes who get brave when they've been drinking and have friends that think/act the same.

I don't think murder is funny, but I do tend to have a morbid sense of humour at times. Maybe it comes with working in this place for the last couple of years. I've lost count of how many funeral parades I've been on, and that's just for my fellow countrymen. Maybe that's why I look forward to getting back to Pattaya from the moment I leave there, just to get away from all the death and destruction here.

Nothing to add. Input equals output in most cases.

Cheers!

[basjke]

I am out on walking street on a daily base and in the early hours for the past 10 years or so and can't remember having a problem ever.I know guys who come here on a 3 week holiday and have problem every night.If you looking for problems walking street is the place to be but it all depends on your own behaviour.

[thaigene2]

Hummmm... Soi 15.

Beach Club.

Angelwitch and RockGirls.

What's Up and Fantasia (if it's still open).

Venus.

It's not the nicest area for sure.

Sorry to hear about this tragedy.

Fun Town stops being fun when there is blood in the streets.

My sympathies to the families.

And justice to the perps is probably more than we could hope for.

~WISteve

well i wouldn call it funtown i only went to pattaya once and left next day.

it is Hlorktown (ripofftown)

designed for farang who arent interested in thai culture and ony want to screw thai prostitutes (who are greatly responsible for giving the impression that all thai women are up to tricking farang ito building their families a house and then throw the farang away and keep everything)

If it wasnt for the whoring community and the stupid farang who give in to this completely transparent and egoistic scam, the selfish faction of thai community wouldnt have nbeen able to become so soulless.

I hold these farang responsible for the fact that so many thais like to take advantage of us.

they wouldnt be able to do it to us if we didnt permit them.

My wife is a factory girl and insists on paying half the rent with me (which i dont permit of course, as she is too nice)

also neither her or her parents maintain that it is my responsibility to send money to the parents, they are an honorable family, and i just wish that the farang who choiose selfiush whores as their wives would look for a decent woman instead of being fooliosh enbough to think they can find a decent faithful women in a beer bar.

No decent thai family would accept this kind of lifestyle, and pattaya wouldnt exist if it wasnt for us.

we are a large part of the cause.

Disgusting to say the least.

But to keep to the point of the post, i am both disgusted and sad to see that once again thais have been able to ransack, and kill tourists simply because farang are given no rights or respect as touristic visitors or expat immigrants , whereas a thai wife in the west gets automatic work permit, can buy land, or open a business. We farang are 2nd class citizens and have no rights here except that of being ripped off and taken advantage of.

If a foreigner is to be deported in the west, one will often see nationals of that particular western country with placards in front of the embassy demonstrating to prevent the deportation.

Ever seen thais with placards standing up for the rights of as farang???

never, they just havent come far enough to care about anyone except their own.

I wish this was different but it isnt.

I do not associate myself with any of these facets of thailand (that is not thailand)

I live with decent thais in an area where there is no tourism and no prostitution, and must say that the real thai people are great people with morals, axcepting their only deficit; being that they would never stand up for a non-thai national, as we often do for non-nationals in our home countries.

I would like to express my regrets and sadness for the person who died, and the peopple injured, but please let me add that if they had unbderstood this country they would never have gone back to sort the problemut themselves. Even the police do not dare to get mixed up on certain streets due to the fact that some soys are controlled by Mer Phern (gunmen) and gangsters (nak leng) who have more power than the local smallfry officers who must patrol there.

On the sukhumvit soy 7/3 the police must first ask permission from the 3 gangsters in black clothing who sit in front of the red police patrol report box, to open the box.I saw a farang get nearly killed beaten almost to death on soy nana by about 20 black clothed motorbike riders who drove past the police box and proceeded to beat the crap out of a single farang in carpark of nana hotel.

I ran to the police box and asked them to do something, whereupon i was told to mind my own business.

They seemed too afraid to leave their box.

so there you go, if you dont want to die, dont start a fight or even return a fight with a bunch of thais on their own territory, especially not in a mafia controlled area such as pattaya.

Stay away from such places and you will have a much better time here.

Associate with honorable Thais and you will be impressed with the Thai culture and nation, instead of disappointed or disgusted.

So many farang residents live here and cant speak read or write thai because they spend 100 percent of their time in an english speaking street with their own countrymen and eat their own countriy's food only like the brits in Benidorm who bring their jar of marmite and tins of beans with them.

My god what do you want to live in another country fro if you have to import your homeland with you to be able to withstand the cchange in enviroment and culture?

Funtown?

you must be joking mate.

what a richardhead.

Idiottown, selfishtown,lust-town,farangland, callit what you like, but funtown?

Some idea of fun you have!

Try watching traditional thai dance, or studying thai mythology, natural medicine, cookery or buddhist art, thats what i call fascinating, not a damned pooltable and a 30 baht beer for 150 baht in a foam holder and some chic who only wants your money so she can give it to the thai guy she loves and live with when you arent there.

haha some people are so stupid.

im glad im not one of them.

Yes - I know I should have deleted the post. But I want to make a point. Open your eyes to the real Thailand - you're the one with the unrealistic view.

You think all those Chinese Thais (who own most of these places pal - with their Thai cop buddies) - you think these guys are studious with their religion? How many of these families were even Buddhist more than ONE GENERATION AGO? Wow - now that's devotion.

UNDERSTAND THIS..if you understand nothing else about Thailand, then understand this... People care ONLY about money. You are a fool if you believe the mantra about culture and piety, etc. People pray to get rich. Maybe they shouldn't - but they do.

These places in your photos and all the crap that goes in (the hijinks with the govt over home ownership, marriage to foreigners, etc) - ALL of it, is simply for the rich elites to make money off foreigners, and to strip the poor peopl of this country of any dignity they have left. The people who run Thialdn don't give a SH+T about the 90% of Thais here - and they sure don't care about culture etc..or you. To believe otherwise is to live life as though Lonely Planet had replaced Wikipedia as a relaible source.

They go through the motions here, cause they need to, in order to ensure continuity of the patronistic system = THEIR patronistic system by the way.

Edited January 23, 2008 by thaigene2

[aehn]

THAI MEN ARE THE BIGGEST COWARDS WHEN IT COMES TO FIGHTING

Its tools, broken bottles, metal poles etc. <deleted>!!!

What kind of a looser male population is this??? Is it really not more strength in a thai soul than this! Put up your f...... fists and take a real fight cowards!

Its no wonder you thai men dont earn more respect around the world than you do. For those of you thai men that really doesnt know. Yes .. we look down on you lazy, drunkin cowards!

Your style like this all over the country and it sure aint building bridges with people around the world.

To the ones of you thai men with this thinking, you should all have been beaten up slowly by real fists!

This is f..... not acceptable under any circumstance!

Hope you all get caught and rot in thai prison

Do yourself, and planet earth a favor, do not ever express yourself again.

[Scott]

Regardless of things like this, I still enjoy going to Pattaya. It's an interesting place to visit. Unfortunately, places like Pattaya tend to attract an eclectic mix of people, some with quite undesirable characteristics and behavior. This is true for both the Thai and foreign people frequenting the place.

If you combine these negative qualities with lax laws, poor enforcement and the cultural difference--and yes when it comes to fighting it's a whole different standard--and the sometimes less than sincere smile, you have a potentially dangerous mix.

I think the important thing for people coming here is to have a very remedial understanding of the situation. Don't fight with the locals is one--they don't fight 'fair' by western standards.

This isn't really about race, but more about culture.

[Motoon]

So we had quite a basket of opinions so far with the main point seeming to be that Thais (males) are not to be trusted and are generally degenerated, murderous bastards doing their trade in packs, waiting in the shadows to bash up some poor Foreigner tourist - be it in Pattay or up country. Well, well. I'm not an idealist with pink glasses and I'm certainly not defending the incident or even the short comings in this country (e.g. authorities) but that seems a bit simplistic.

I'm in this country for 16 years and what I have to say is that for every sleaze bag that I come across, I know at least five decent Thais that I consider my friends. Someone said that local Foreigners usually get along just fine with Thais and I agree. By the way, Thais do fight in packs - even amongst themselves - and the target is to "win", no matter how. Again I'm not defending, just stating a fact.

What happened may be disturbing and not right but it is a logical consequence of the course of action. I f you blame, blame all involved including the foreign tourist police volunteers jokers, with their hugely inflated ego, small hearts and their jacked up "police" pick ups.

[grantbkk]

Many of us live in the developing country called Thailand. Rule of law is really just a concept unless you have connections then you can become the law in specific cases. I've heard or read about every reason one comes to the Land of Smiles but a common thread seems to be a male, 35 to 60+, single or newly single with no money to decent money looking for a certain lifestyle. People who say they come because of the kind Thai people with a great smiles I think are trying to fool their friends and relatives at home. From this group we exclude the couples who retire to villas in Phuket and other high-end resorts.

Logic reveals that it boils down simply to cheap fun with the same or opposite sex without the constraints of law and rules that the visitor or retiree thinks "messed up his show" in his country of origin. The sense of awe at the freedom and inexpensive housing to say nothing of eating off street vendors for Bt100 a day stays with the guy for a long time. Now we have the freedom, lower cost of living and a lifestyle everyone with a functioning mind would covet. But then reality sets in. You find the girl or woman of your dreams at a beer bar or walking the corridors of The Paragon Mall. You hook up and begin to establish the same life here that you had back in the home country. Sure its cheaper and the your mate hasn't gotten fat yet but in the back of your mind you begin to realize that something is missing. Where are one of those 250,000 police officers when you need one? Why can't I own property here? What if I want to upgrade after a few years? Is my mate going to take all that me, or my parents, worked so had for? Will she have me killed? Why isn't ANYTHING in my name? If we have an argument who are the police going to side with?

After a while we would like a little insurance and first world protection when it comes with laws and rules. It seems to be a vicious circle that many posters mention after years of living the dream. What you first loved about Thailand later makes you grow to hate some aspects of life in the jungle.

Edited January 24, 2008 by grantbkk

[huggybear]

You can try and rationalise it or compare it with other countries problems, but this is an all time low.

I agree - Walking Street is a sleazy place.

The country of is Thailand sleazy. Sleasy police, sleazy government, sleazy justice, sleazy laws. Besides, even if they catch these

low life Thai people and put them in jail, they will be out running free the very next day. The Thai people

which murder foreigners always go free. Thailand is known internationally as the cesspool of the earth.

Way, way off the mark moo9.

Terrible posting. I don't think you have traveled a lot.

Take your pork butt to Jakarta, Mogadishu or one of many African cities and you will truly see what you describe.

No, Thailand is a great place, all countries/cities have their low points, but overall the LOS is a great place.

Sorry you feel the way you do, I sure hope you don't live here.

[gharknes]

I think another point here is why the guy died from a leg injury, it is not difficult to stop a bleeder even from a main artery, packed tight enough it will stop, he made it to hospital alive why couldn't they save him.

[Arkady]

I once saw a Thai man beaten senseless in a show bar off Walking Street in Pattaya. I couldn't catch what the dispute was about but he was obviously incoherently drunk and was set upon by all the brave Thai male employees of the bar - 4 or 5 of them. When they had got him to the floor and enjoyed kicking him for a few minutes, they picked him up and threw him outside. A few minutes later the guy had picked himself and charged back into the bar fists flying like a madman. Then they really did a number on him, knocking him to the floor again and really laying into him once he was down. Finally the mamasan picked up a bar stool and bashed him over the head with it, at which point he stopped writhing around. Then the men grabbed his arms and legs and tossed him back into the street laughing. The mamasan rang the bell and the DJ apologized for the disturbance and announced that every one would be given a free drink, at which point nearly all the farang customers and bar girls cheered loudly. I paid my bill in disgust and left, not waiting for the free drink to the astonishment of the waitress. By the time I got outside the victim was gone. I don't know if he managed to pick himself up again and limp away or was carried off by his friends or some good samaritans. There were no police around.

Edited January 24, 2008 by Arkady

[Arkady]

I am out on walking street on a daily base and in the early hours for the past 10 years or so and can't remember having a problem ever.I know guys who come here on a 3 week holiday and have problem every night.If you looking for problems walking street is the place to be but it all depends on your own behaviour.

I agree entirely with your point but am a bit surprised you haven't got bored with Walking Street yet after 10 years.

I nearly got into trouble there once, although I certainly wasn't looking for it. In a bar with East European dancers the dancers were rotating around the room dancing either on small stages or in front of customers' tables. I was there with a married couple who were curious about the phenomenon of farang gogo dancers. Some of the customers gave the dancers tips, placed in their garter belts, after they had danced in front of them but not all and this seemed quite optional. After dancing in front of our table one of the dancers aggressively demanded a tip from me pointing to a 500 baht in her garter belt (presumably put there by herself). I didn't find her particularly attractive or her dance very interesting. In fact I had been chatting to my friends while she danced and was not looking at her, saving my tips for some prettier dancers I could see on the conveyer belt. So I decided I was not going to tip her just because she demanded it and said no after she had asked several times. At this point she stamped on my foot hard with her stiletto heel and then jumped up in the air and came down with her knee in my crutch, obviously hoping to crush my balls. Fortunately she just missed them but I was in some pain from the stiletto in my foot. My friend called the mamasan to complain about the assault and she said in Thai that these East European girls were absolutely the pits as far as she was concerned and offered to call the manager, who turned out to be a sleazy looking East European man. At this point I told my friends not to bother and we paid the bill and I limped out into the street. No doubt we could have all ended up as bloody messes on Walking Street, if we had lost our cool and made a big fuss.

I don't think I was being provocative in refusing a tip. I didn't insult her. I just said no firmly but politely. I don't see why customers have to give drinks or tips to every one who asks for them. I prefer to buy drinks and give tips to girls who don't ask but are pleasant and friendly. Thai bar girls usually just look a bit crestfallen and move on quickly, when refused. Anyway lesson learned. No more venues with East European women for me. They are something else.

[Virgil]

The Thai police let themselves down again and again. Perhaps the men should have bribed them ... works for me!

[Kerryd]

I once saw a Thai man beaten senseless in a show bar off Walking Street in Pattaya. I couldn't catch what the dispute was about but he was obviously incoherently drunk and was set upon by all the brave Thai male employees of the bar - 4 or 5 of them. When they had got him to the floor and enjoyed kicking him for a few minutes, they picked him up and threw him outside. A few minutes later the guy had picked himself and charged back into the bar fists flying like a madman. Then they really did a number on him, knocking him to the floor again and really laying into him once he was down. Finally the mamasan picked up a bar stool and bashed him over the head with it, at which point he stopped writhing around. Then the men grabbed his arms and legs and tossed him back into the street laughing. The mamasan rang the bell and the DJ apologized for the disturbance and announced that every one would be given a free drink, at which point nearly all the farang customers and bar girls cheered loudly. I paid my bill in disgust and left, not waiting for the free drink to the astonishment of the waitress. By the time I got outside the victim was gone. I don't know if he managed to pick himself up again and limp away or was carried off by his friends or some good samaritans. There were no police around.

I guy I once knew went up to the DJ in club and asked him to play a song. The DJ, upon hearing the guy speak english, came out of the booth with a baseball bat and tried to club the guy (true story). The guy was wrestling with the DJ when the doorman and the bouncer came along to help the DJ. The 3 of them proceeded to beat the piss out of the guy and tossed him on the sidewalk afterwards.

His friends in the club never even knew it had happened (it happened around a corner, out of view of their table). A couple other guys found the guy on the sidewalk bleeding (turns out he had a fractured skull).

Oh but wait. This didn't happen in Pattaya. It happened in nice, peaceful, civilised Hamburg, Germany ! According to the police, this bar was known for it's

"anti-American" attitude and clientele, and they figured that the DJ mistook our guy for being an American (he was/is Canadian). A fractured skull just for speaking english.

I think the moral of this thread is, If you go looking for trouble (anywhere), you're likely to find it.

//edit - forgot to add "bat" after baseball !

Edited January 24, 2008 by Kerryd

[koheesti]

I think another point here is why the guy died from a leg injury, it is not difficult to stop a bleeder even from a main artery, packed tight enough it will stop, he made it to hospital alive why couldn't they save him.

HE DIDN'T DIE!

Is it difficult to stop the main artery in the leg from bleeding? Well, 2-3 months ago a professional athlete in Miami got shot in the leg during a robbery at his house. He died 2 days later. You can bet he had the best medical care available (being a millionaire star athlete for a pro sports team) and he still died.

[ragazzo-d-oro]

Well let me make an example,

last month I went to buy a bag in Patunam market in bkk and a lady try to charge me 3 or 4 times the real price bag. So I kindly ( but very kindly ) told her that I did not want to buy it at that time but I wanted first check around and maybe came back if convenient.

Of course she insisted and when I was going her collegue ( a young thai guy ) told her in thai " fuc_k him ", speacking up.

So I went near him and I asked what's the problem if I wanted to buy a bag in other place.

At this point he start to insult me ( in english now ).

I got the point ( he just hate me , he so could not cheat me so he likes to offend me because not a stupid farang easy to cheat) and I go away.

Like the estonian guys I went to police and after 4 hours waiting a policeman come with me ( only becouse a police lady cheaf liked me and ask my number ) to blame him and let him ask me sorry.

We did not find him ( and I came back to look for him another time with a thai person, but still nothing ) but I am sure if I had a fighting with him many frends came there and did exactly the same than thai guys did with the estonians....

Even if I encounterd some little bad experiences like this one, I still love Thailand and thai people ( of course not those ones that hate us because are jelous about our money, our ladies, ecc ) but I hate almost of thai people stays in tourist place ( almost of them are bulls...t ).

I love and sponsor the good part of thailand, the one that still not full of drugs, cop extorcion's and prostitution.

A lot of bad story in pattaya are hidden and we will never know ( a thai lady told me about some farang assassinated but that look like suicided only for some bad words in the club ).

Here we are in Thailand. Someone is not fair with you ? Keep it and remember who is him for cheap money he could get a cool surprice like those ones they give us sometime. It is not nice but sometime is smarter. I can tell you for personal experience

They think they are strong because they can face their enemy but we can not....but this is real only if we don't act same them of course....Sometime we are bigger but not so foxy. Even I was double than that thai boy I did not accept to fight with him, at least there and at that time....

Edited January 24, 2008 by ragazzo-d-oro

[moo9]

Well let me make an example,

last month I went to buy a bag in Patunam market in bkk and a lady try to charge me 3 or 4 times the real price bag. So I kindly ( but very kindly ) told her that I did not want to buy it at that time but I wanted first check around and maybe came back if convenient.

Of course she insisted and when I was going her collegue ( a young thai guy ) told her in thai " fuc_k him ", speacking up.

So I went near him and I asked what's the problem if I wanted to buy a bag in other place.

At this point he start to insult me ( in english now ).

I got the point ( he just hate me , he so could not cheat me so he likes to offend me because not a stupid farang easy to cheat) and I go away.

Like the estonian guys I went to police and after 4 hours waiting a policeman come with me ( only becouse a police lady cheaf liked me and ask my number ) to blame him and let him ask me sorry.

Over such tiny incident you

a.) got angry?

b.) ask the Police to come?

With all respect...but with this attitude you are begging for trouble!!!

If this would have happened to me, I would just turn and walk away!

[ragazzo-d-oro]

Well let me make an example,

last month I went to buy a bag in Patunam market in bkk and a lady try to charge me 3 or 4 times the real price bag. So I kindly ( but very kindly ) told her that I did not want to buy it at that time but I wanted first check around and maybe came back if convenient.

Of course she insisted and when I was going her collegue ( a young thai guy ) told her in thai " fuc_k him ", speacking up.

So I went near him and I asked what's the problem if I wanted to buy a bag in other place.

At this point he start to insult me ( in english now ).

I got the point ( he just hate me , he so could not cheat me so he likes to offend me because not a stupid farang easy to cheat) and I go away.

Like the estonian guys I went to police and after 4 hours waiting a policeman come with me ( only becouse a police lady cheaf liked me and ask my number ) to blame him and let him ask me sorry.

Over such tiny incident you

a.) got angry?

b.) ask the Police to come?

With all respect...but with this attitude you are begging for trouble!!!

If this would have happened to me, I would just turn and walk away!

And maybe you are in right but people like that one sometime should face some problems too (and even with farang they can get problems !!! ) .

Untill now ( 3 years that I live in Thailand ) I always care about offences and I still alive and I still respected from thai people ( but I repeat I like almost of them and usually I have very good relationship with them ).

Edited January 24, 2008 by ragazzo-d-oro

[shotover]

Here is a little differant twist that readers may have not thought of. One day while thinking about how Thais always gang up on Farangs in a fight it occured to me what thier point of view might be.......... these huge 100K guys from Germany, Sweden, etc. get heavy handed with the little Thai guys so the little Thais think " screw that, we're not letting these big foreigners come here to our country and push us around" so they gang up on us and teach us not to mess with the Thais. I suspect that's the way they look at it.

The fallacy of this logic is that Thais gang up when fighting each other and there is no size advantage. I have personally seen this on the street, and in newspaper and TV reports. They also don't stop when the opponent is down and no longer fighting back. They keep going out of rage. Sometimes bystanders may step in to stop it, often they stand there watching it as though it's a spectator sport.

[morejunk]

Pattaya City News website reported the "murder" of the Estonia man. Pattaya City News did remove the story without even providing the corrected version. Nice job Howard. Your are becoming more Thai everyday. Protect your wanabe Tourist cops buddies and your website without providing the truth. That's responsible reporting, right?

I quess it is still better than Pattaya Daily News. They would have reported condoms and viagara on the guy.

What's up with wierd guys in the Tourist Police volunteers? They seem rather strange by normal standards. I doubt any of them could become real police officers anywhere. They look like the wanabees at a gay uniform bar and look funny doing their goose step (or waddle in some cases) down walking street. Maybe testosterone injections would have help the volunteers the night the Estonia guys made their report.

Edited January 24, 2008 by morejunk

[Galong]

There seems to me to be a very common theme in most of the violence we read about... alcohol! It is the root of many evils and should be illegal.

[moo9]

You can try and rationalise it or compare it with other countries problems, but this is an all time low.

I agree - Walking Street is a sleazy place.

The country of is Thailand sleazy. Sleasy police, sleazy government, sleazy justice, sleazy laws. Besides, even if they catch these

low life Thai people and put them in jail, they will be out running free the very next day. The Thai people

which murder foreigners always go free. Thailand is known internationally as the cesspool of the earth.

Way, way off the mark moo9.

Terrible posting. I don't think you have traveled a lot.

Take your pork butt to Jakarta, Mogadishu or one of many African cities and you will truly see what you describe.

No, Thailand is a great place, all countries/cities have their low points, but overall the LOS is a great place.

Sorry you feel the way you do, I sure hope you don't live here.

Hey Buddy, it was not me writing that!

[moo9]

Well let me make an example,

last month I went to buy a bag in Patunam market in bkk and a lady try to charge me 3 or 4 times the real price bag. So I kindly ( but very kindly ) told her that I did not want to buy it at that time but I wanted first check around and maybe came back if convenient.

Of course she insisted and when I was going her collegue ( a young thai guy ) told her in thai " fuc_k him ", speacking up.

So I went near him and I asked what's the problem if I wanted to buy a bag in other place.

At this point he start to insult me ( in english now ).

I got the point ( he just hate me , he so could not cheat me so he likes to offend me because not a stupid farang easy to cheat) and I go away.

Like the estonian guys I went to police and after 4 hours waiting a policeman come with me ( only becouse a police lady cheaf liked me and ask my number ) to blame him and let him ask me sorry.

Over such tiny incident you

a.) got angry?

b.) ask the Police to come?

With all respect...but with this attitude you are begging for trouble!!!

If this would have happened to me, I would just turn and walk away!

And maybe you are in right but people like that one sometime should face some problems too (and even with farang they can get problems !!! ) .

Untill now ( 3 years that I live in Thailand ) I always care about offences and I still alive and I still respected from thai people ( but I repeat I like almost of them and usually I have very good relationship with them ).

Agree. but I really keep totally out of that. Mai pen rai....they can try to cheat me, I know better and quietly, politely step away.

Not my job to teach them or educate them

[moo9]

There seems to me to be a very common theme in most of the violence we read about... alcohol! It is the root of many evils and should be illegal.

What strange church you belong too?

[thaigene2]

Many of us live in the developing country called Thailand. Rule of law is really just a concept unless you have connections then you can become the law in specific cases. I've heard or read about every reason one comes to the Land of Smiles but a common thread seems to be a male, 35 to 60+, single or newly single with no money to decent money looking for a certain lifestyle. People who say they come because of the kind Thai people with a great smiles I think are trying to fool their friends and relatives at home. From this group we exclude the couples who retire to villas in Phuket and other high-end resorts.

Logic reveals that it boils down simply to cheap fun with the same or opposite sex without the constraints of law and rules that the visitor or retiree thinks "messed up his show" in his country of origin. The sense of awe at the freedom and inexpensive housing to say nothing of eating off street vendors for Bt100 a day stays with the guy for a long time. Now we have the freedom, lower cost of living and a lifestyle everyone with a functioning mind would covet. But then reality sets in. You find the girl or woman of your dreams at a beer bar or walking the corridors of The Paragon Mall. You hook up and begin to establish the same life here that you had back in the home country. Sure its cheaper and the your mate hasn't gotten fat yet but in the back of your mind you begin to realize that something is missing. Where are one of those 250,000 police officers when you need one? Why can't I own property here? What if I want to upgrade after a few years? Is my mate going to take all that me, or my parents, worked so had for? Will she have me killed? Why isn't ANYTHING in my name? If we have an argument who are the police going to side with?

After a while we would like a little insurance and first world protection when it comes with laws and rules. It seems to be a vicious circle that many posters mention after years of living the dream. What you first loved about Thailand later makes you grow to hate some aspects of life in the jungle.

An excellent, thoroughly thought out posting - well done. Again, there should be some kind of "bank" for posts of clear distinction - Mods has this ever been discussed? Perhaps, as an idea, we could do a star rating for 'responses' rather than just the OP thread?

[Pattaya_Fox]

Many of us live in the developing country called Thailand. Rule of law is really just a concept unless you have connections then you can become the law in specific cases. I've heard or read about every reason one comes to the Land of Smiles but a common thread seems to be a male, 35 to 60+, single or newly single with no money to decent money looking for a certain lifestyle. People who say they come because of the kind Thai people with a great smiles I think are trying to fool their friends and relatives at home. From this group we exclude the couples who retire to villas in Phuket and other high-end resorts.

Logic reveals that it boils down simply to cheap fun with the same or opposite sex without the constraints of law and rules that the visitor or retiree thinks "messed up his show" in his country of origin. The sense of awe at the freedom and inexpensive housing to say nothing of eating off street vendors for Bt100 a day stays with the guy for a long time. Now we have the freedom, lower cost of living and a lifestyle everyone with a functioning mind would covet. But then reality sets in. You find the girl or woman of your dreams at a beer bar or walking the corridors of The Paragon Mall. You hook up and begin to establish the same life here that you had back in the home country. Sure its cheaper and the your mate hasn't gotten fat yet but in the back of your mind you begin to realize that something is missing. Where are one of those 250,000 police officers when you need one? Why can't I own property here? What if I want to upgrade after a few years? Is my mate going to take all that me, or my parents, worked so had for? Will she have me killed? Why isn't ANYTHING in my name? If we have an argument who are the police going to side with?

After a while we would like a little insurance and first world protection when it comes with laws and rules. It seems to be a vicious circle that many posters mention after years of living the dream. What you first loved about Thailand later makes you grow to hate some aspects of life in the jungle.

An excellent, thoroughly thought out posting - well done. Again, there should be some kind of "bank" for posts of clear distinction - Mods has this ever been discussed? Perhaps, as an idea, we could do a star rating for 'responses' rather than just the OP thread?

Not everyone has the same opinion of each post. Some may like it and others may not.

What is clear distinction in your eyes may well be the reverse when someone else reads it.

Topics which are considered very useful to members are pinned at the top of each forum and contain many beneficial posts and useful information.

There is a star rating feature for each member and if you think that a member is worthy or otherwise of a star adjustment then you can access this feature through the member profile.

[jimlad]

The most ignorant thing I've ever heard!!!

How is it Ignorant? I've been to Thailand many times and have even come close to marrying a Thai. They're one of the most xenophobic races on planet earth!

Ahhh yes, the fact that you have been on holiday to Thailand a few times now means you are a qualified analyst of Thai culture, what a joke. And as for nearly marrying a Thai, would this person happen to be the girl you spent 4 days with and then decided you would like to marry? Again, what a joke.

Actually, I've been to Thailand more than "just a few times" I've been beyond the tourist traps where farang do not dare to tread. I spent a lot more time with her than just "four days" before I decided that I wanted to marry her thanks very much!.... I went to see her remote rural village in Issan where children under 6 would scream in terror when I came close as they had never seen an anglo-saxon before. I met her Parents, Sisters, Brothers and friends etc... pretty much the whole village.

I guess my assumption that all Thai's are one of the most xenophobic races on the planet could be a tad exaggerated, however if Issan culture is anything to go by.....

Edited January 24, 2008 by jimlad