Penang To Impose Stricter Rules When Issuing Tourist Visas

[jstumbo]

so as for practical matters:

the Royal Thai Consulate-General in Penang as from TOMORROW, February 1 2008, will only issue Tourist Visas to those in possession of an air ticket departing from Thailand to an international destination not local in the same region. (i.e. not Vietnam, Malaysia or similar.)

which countries are considered in the same region? all of asia?

could one still get a visa in bali? india? is laos still offering a tourist visa?

this only affects Penang. Other embassies/consulates have their own rules. If you were able to get a visa in bali or india, chances are that the rules are the same as they were before for those consulates and you would be able to get the visa. Laos still gives out visas.

I don't think that anyone knows exactly what countries are considered the same region. I would think that SE asia would count, maybe more. I think they are looking for you to go "home" to deal with this. Only a matter of time before they only give tourist visas to residents of Malaysia.

[rimbung]

The deal was done a year ago. Three 30 days and you go home for 180 days.

The scams with visa companies are just making it worse for the wide boys. Get everything sorted because you may soon find you cannot come back from a so called 'visa' run.

[bangkokgas]

...The UK rock star Gary Glitter is a good example...

Where the f#ck are you coming from? Comparing long-term stayers in Thailand with Gary Glitter? Sad..............so sad. I go by the rules, I have an apartemnt in Tokyo, a house in England, a wealthy Japanese wife, and am not hurting for a few baht myself. Does this mean I fit into the steroetyped t.v. holder that so many on this forum are so quick to sneer and condemn? Maybe, I can't prove it on this forum - but it is what it is, pure ignorance. Get a real visa , yeah right, what if there isn't one that suits my wife and I? Go home (Japan- they won't give her a visa, "you get 30 days, what more do you want/" is the answer there, and London the same. Noone on this forum has come close to even suggesting a visa for us, and I do not blame anyone, there ain't one!!!

[Maestro]

The deal was done a year ago. Three 30 days and you go home for 180 days...

Wrong.

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

...the wide boys...

Who are “the wide boys”?

--

Maestro

[sonnyJ]

Bangkokgas, I always thought that the Japanese and Koreans get 90 days on arrival/no need for a visa? Can't they renew it?

[torrenova]

I take on board the issue of people working here illegally but the way the government have gone about trying to remedy the problem is all wrong.

Firstly, there are people who are retired under 50 years old, provision has to be made for them.

Secondly, it has to be made easier for non Thais to work here without all the paperwork and fees associated with the whole process. A trip to immigration should be all that is required with some nominal fee and then taxes paid on income. None of this having to fly around and get this and get that etc.

Thirdly, Thailand has to realise that barring some undesirables, these foreigners are actually healthy for the economy and often support a number of Thai jobs both directly through providing employment and indirectly through spending their income.

Fourthly, the government has to realise that if they gave a non Thai the choice of jumping around the world, doing visa runs or spending similar money on legitimising their stay then they would happily pay up.

Overall, it is not rocket science but my take on it is that someone at the top has a brainwave and all below just go along with it even if they know it is crazy because they want promotion and dissenting with superiors is not the way to get on in this society.

[michael233]

This is because of war in south Thailand to keep away unwanted Muslims,probably dont affect Farang in most countrys in Thai Embassy!

Edited February 4, 2008 by michael233

[cali4995]

I'm really not sure if it's fair to extrapolate from the "Penang situation"

that Thailand is trying to discourage long-stay visitors. It really may

be that they're just trying to cut-down on their personal workload.

I mean honestly, every single Thai embassy / consulate in the region

seems to be operating under their own guidelines. Even different immig

offices seem to have varying rules for when they will grant extensions.

In truth, people who pick-up a couple of tourist visas and then the related

extensions, contribute significantly more directly into the coffers. There are

always going to be people abusing the system and I suggest they are here

on a variety of visas. Trying to say one group is more desirable isn't true.

[Maigo6]

I have an apartemnt in Tokyo, a house in England, a wealthy Japanese wife, and am not hurting for a few baht myself. Does this mean I fit into the steroetyped t.v. holder that so many on this forum are so quick to sneer and condemn? Maybe, I can't prove it on this forum - but it is what it is, pure ignorance. Get a real visa , yeah right, what if there isn't one that suits my wife and I? Go home (Japan- they won't give her a visa, "you get 30 days, what more do you want/" is the answer there, and London the same.

You are saying that The Royal Thai Embassy in Meguro will not issue any type of visa at all to your wealthy Japanese wife, very strange indeed. I myself have used the Tokyo Embassy on numerous occasions and found them to be very helpful.

Whats wrong with Yokohama or Osaka consulates if Tokyo deems that your wealthy Japanese wife is unfit for a Visa?

As for you, why London, a rich guy like you can surely make the trip to Birmingham or Hull and get a Non 'O' visa, same as many other people do.

Strange how all these wealthy people cannot get visa's, yet ole' Mr Scrivens the Toilet attendant from Grimsby gets a visa in UK with no problems.

[mel2surf]

I take on board the issue of people working here illegally but the way the government have gone about trying to remedy the problem is all wrong.

Firstly, there are people who are retired under 50 years old, provision has to be made for them.

Secondly, it has to be made easier for non Thais to work here without all the paperwork and fees associated with the whole process. A trip to immigration should be all that is required with some nominal fee and then taxes paid on income. None of this having to fly around and get this and get that etc.

Thirdly, Thailand has to realise that barring some undesirables, these foreigners are actually healthy for the economy and often support a number of Thai jobs both directly through providing employment and indirectly through spending their income.

Fourthly, the government has to realise that if they gave a non Thai the choice of jumping around the world, doing visa runs or spending similar money on legitimising their stay then they would happily pay up.

Overall, it is not rocket science but my take on it is that someone at the top has a brainwave and all below just go along with it even if they know it is crazy because they want promotion and dissenting with superiors is not the way to get on in this society.

I agree.The money could be spent here,so why the hassles?

[stingray]

They want to get rid of all the sex tourists.

Sorry, but most of the foreigners come here to enjoy the Nightlife, have fun, or come here to find a Lady, which they couln't get easy in their country. They don't come here for shopping (shopping isn't so cheap anymore), or swimming at the dirty beaches, smellig gabbish containers every 50 meters on the Jomtien beach, or smelling the diesel exhousts from the 1000 song taew taxis in Pattaya, etc. I think in Phuked isn't a better situation. If Thailand have no nightlife, i think 90% of the tourists are gone and spend their holidays sowhere else, like carribbean island, Santo domigo, Costa Rica, Brasil, Hawaii, Mauritius, etc. There are much nicer places in the world to make holidays.

[stingray]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

THEY SPEND THE 10K ON PROSTITUTE'S.

And of course the prostitutes support their families, boyfriends (i.e. Motorbike Taxi Drivers) buying houses in Isaan, cars motobikes and propertier for theyr families. This is how the system keep alife. Why Pattaya have all this big shopping centres? How they can exist? If no prostitutes, all would be shut down within a mount. They could not even may their electir bill anymore. It's hard but true.

[stingray]

...As for workers coming in to high value positions to which aid the economy - no problem getting the wp and visa - done in a day I think it is now.

A work permit doesn't mean that you can work. For example: If you have a WP as a director of your compan for a restaurant, doesen't mean that you can cook. If you have a WP for a Company who sales some items, doen't mean that you can be the salesman by your self. There are always some limitations for us foreigners to handycap our business. But as i saw in a former post, Thai nationals which are married and living in europe or USA doesn't have any limitations, i.e. they don't even need to set up a company and apply for WP if they want to work. If your Thai wife living in europe she can work what ever she want, and get even all the social benefits, again without WP and Company

[LivinLOS]

...Again it still doesnt matter...

I think this all matters and thanks for the add on the laws. So it should be clear now.

Working on internet in Thailand is vary rarely enforced though. I know a guy who visited various gov. offices in Bangkok and tried to find out how to pay the tax from his internet business, they weren't interested at all and told him to bugger off.

OK so we do now agree that its illegal ?!?

Let him drop along to the min of labour and tell them hes working without a WP and see how interested they get.

Open a company / branch office.. Then all things drop into place, visa's, work permits, income tax, etc.

[jstumbo]

...Again it still doesnt matter...

I think this all matters and thanks for the add on the laws. So it should be clear now.

Working on internet in Thailand is vary rarely enforced though. I know a guy who visited various gov. offices in Bangkok and tried to find out how to pay the tax from his internet business, they weren't interested at all and told him to bugger off.

OK so we do now agree that its illegal ?!?

Let him drop along to the min of labour and tell them hes working without a WP and see how interested they get.

Open a company / branch office.. Then all things drop into place, visa's, work permits, income tax, etc.

Wouldnt the company then have to show income? Would he then not have to have whoever is paying him from the US pay the Thai company, which would pay him? Wouldnt that severely cut into the money when he has to pay taxes for the company and taxes for his income? Would he then not give up paying into social security in the US, since he would be working for a Thai company? Would an employer want to go through all this just so that their employee can live in Thailand? What would the tax implications be for the company that employs him if they open a branch office? It is not really that cut and dry and easy for everything to just drop in place.

[LivinLOS]

Wouldnt the company then have to show income?

Of course.. Being legal implies paying taxes.

Would he then not have to have whoever is paying him from the US pay the Thai company, which would pay him?

Yes

Wouldnt that severely cut into the money when he has to pay taxes for the company and taxes for his income?

Legality costs.. Thats the price of doing business.

Would he then not give up paying into social security in the US, since he would be working for a Thai company?

Most have claimed they are not paying US deductions either.. But yes he would get an 80k overseas tax credit I understand.

Would an employer want to go through all this just so that their employee can live in Thailand?

Surely for an employer its far easier to simply pay an invoice ??

What would the tax implications be for the company that employs him if they open a branch office?

He opens a totally separate company and invoices them.. For them in Thailand.. None..

It is not really that cut and dry and easy for everything to just drop in place.

But it does all drop into place. People can just work illegally if they choose, but it should not be presented as legal or desirable. The route to legality is not that hard, but yet people dont want to so they make up arguments about why its not needed for them.

[JetsetBkk]

(You do realise that Thai immigration read this site, don't you? You're doing their job for them. )

Makes no real difference as they will note that they had issued you one before and wonder why you had not left Thailand. They will look for the entry and exit stamps of your home country.

I'm sure they'll check now, since the loop-hole (of cancelling the onward ticket) has been discussed in the forum

[(You do realise that Thai immigration read this site, don't you? You're doing their job for them. )

Not another censorship debate again? Yawn.

Not sure what you mean. Whereas Thaivisa does an excellent job in telling people how to get the right visa for their particular circumstances, it also has topics like this one that tell people how to get a visa for which they don't qualify - i.e. "long-stayers" who pretend they are "tourists".

[tropo]

Not sure what you mean. Whereas Thaivisa does an excellent job in telling people how to get the right visa for their particular circumstances, it also has topics like this one that tell people how to get a visa for which they don't qualify - i.e. "long-stayers" who pretend they are "tourists".

What I find strange is how many "normal" people who don't need tourist visas will chime in to tourist visa threads.

It's like they're a bunch of tourist police working for the Thai Immigration Department.

You would think that only people with visa concerns and in particular tourist visa concerns would enter and read this thread as it's so clearly titled as a thread concerning tourist visas.

Any chance of an explanation from one of you permanent residents without visa concerns? Is it purely out of boredom you reply to these threads, or is there some deeper reason?

[Dupont]

Ok

Product is Bag of BullSh1t

My company, pay tax, NI, registered WP Price per sack 300 baht

Arthur dayley inc. No overheads Price per sack 250 baht

Wide boy with no overheads takes 20% commission from legal business, = 60 baht Sells sack for 280 baht and pockets 40baht per sack.

Now, replace Bag of BS with, snorkel trips, cakes, dive trips, tours, beer etc. and you may be on the way to understanding this issue from a different standpoint.

[kopite]

theres so many posts in this thread that personally i find shocking.

longstayers are not tourists blah de blah

i have been here since november 2006 (i have been her for 5 years going home for 2 weeks once a year, almost). i arrived on a 6 month tourist visa (3 month double entry) + extensions, then a 2 month tourist visa = extension from laos, followed by a 2 month double entry tourist visa (again from laos)

but from judging some of the posts on here im now being compared to gary glitter. i think the thai ex-pat on retirement and business visas really needs to have a look in the mirror. i havent broken any rules, neither have thousands of others. we havent stayed here on months of overstay. we have simply followed the RULES!!!

if the rules change, then we will follow them. im not talking about the ebayers etc.. people like me who dont live on a pension or make a living in this wonderful country. just people who are not married, working or over the age of 50.

this thread pretty much sums up some of the ex-pat in community in thailand. "im much better than you" attitude.

most of you are getting on a bit now. you should have grown up already.

get a grip

[koheesti]

What I find strange is how many "normal" people who don't need tourist visas will chime in to tourist visa threads.

It's like they're a bunch of tourist police working for the Thai Immigration Department.

You would think that only people with visa concerns and in particular tourist visa concerns would enter and read this thread as it's so clearly titled as a thread concerning tourist visas.

Any chance of an explanation from one of you permanent residents without visa concerns? Is it purely out of boredom you reply to these threads, or is there some deeper reason?

Good point. I myself don't bother checking and commenting on threads about visas that don't concern me. I guess the ones that do must be really bored or have too much time on their hands. Maybe they should get jobs.

[Talok]

I think they see it more as a way to combat foreigners working illigaly in Thailand

Very true Robbloc. Then again, are farang working illegally stealing jobs from Thais ? I haven't seen to many farang taxi drivers, policemen, etc. around town. These rules keep getting tighter due to paranoid law makers more than anything else.

Yes, don't let farang buy land and houses if you must but why scare away people who spend money here ? I can see the Philippine government smiling from here. It will only benefit them.

Hey Oz,

Well the bottom line is farangs staying here on tourist visa's and/or 30-day-stay entry-stamps indefinately and - pardon my french and the illustration - exploiting the country's poor little cuties from Isaan (while "spending monny" surely but marginally, the ecomomic arguement of losers paying barfines and ST(D)s is quite rediculous, mate ), lil bit working as dodgy English teachers and boiler-room and time-sharing artists with Kao-San-certificates, are kinda being washed out, seems innit? "Oh shit they're on to us" I hear them blabber...

Let's not kid ourselves, the Thai are well aware of the mis-use of their own unintentinal flexibility on possibilities and all sorts of legal loop-holes for undesirables to stay here for no legitemate reason wiv no credentials/papers to show for it. There's nothing to worry about if you have a legitemate reason and actually contribute, u of all persons shud know that, Oz (i know you know, just abit ranting here).

I personally "exploit a little cutie from Isaan" myself (as she does exploit me), but me hav jobbie, company, paying tax in TH, WP + appropriate year visa, the permanent outlook, the works. So do you.

Tourists on Tourist Visas are at what they are, Tourists, and now have to keep it that way. Then they F off and save up monny from Farangland to haul back (yes, you can "stay" here, just plan 6 months brakes in, Dodos), and taz better for the economy, i say, or whatever.

"Any chance of an explanation from one of you permanent residents without visa concerns? Is it purely out of boredom you reply to these threads, or is there some deeper reason?"

Well, here's your explanation, Tropo...

"i have been here since november 2006 (i have been her for 5 years going home for 2 weeks once a year, almost). i arrived on a 6 month tourist visa (3 month double entry) + extensions, then a 2 month tourist visa = extension from laos, followed by a 2 month double entry tourist visa (again from laos)

get a grip" ...

"get a grip", Kopite? I "get" a headache reading your silly visa adventures, frankly

I fail to see the problem, here.......

Edited February 5, 2008 by Talok

[koheesti]

theres so many posts in this thread that personally i find shocking.

longstayers are not tourists blah de blah

i have been here since november 2006 (i have been her for 5 years going home for 2 weeks once a year, almost). i arrived on a 6 month tourist visa (3 month double entry) + extensions, then a 2 month tourist visa = extension from laos, followed by a 2 month double entry tourist visa (again from laos)

but from judging some of the posts on here im now being compared to gary glitter. i think the thai ex-pat on retirement and business visas really needs to have a look in the mirror. i havent broken any rules, neither have thousands of others. we havent stayed here on months of overstay. we have simply followed the RULES!!!

if the rules change, then we will follow them. im not talking about the ebayers etc.. people like me who dont live on a pension or make a living in this wonderful country. just people who are not married, working or over the age of 50.

this thread pretty much sums up some of the ex-pat in community in thailand. "im much better than you" attitude.

most of you are getting on a bit now. you should have grown up already.

get a grip

good post - even if I might be one of those "ebayers" you're talking about.

Speaking of breaking rules or the law, I wonder how many of those complaining the most about tourist visa "abuse" have 100 baht illegal software on their computers or pirate DVDs?

[tropo]

Speaking of breaking rules or the law, I wonder how many of those complaining the most about tourist visa "abuse" have 100 baht illegal software on their computers or pirate DVDs?

No way, the people complaining about us tourist visa "abusers" are pillars of society. I wonder what brought most of them to Thailand in the first place?

[jstumbo]

...us tourist visa "abusers" ...

And that is really what it is. People that are abusing what a tourist visa should really be used for. But I have no problem with that. If you want to stay here using whatever means that the Thai government will give you to do it legally, then I say welcome to you. If the Thai government wants to change the rules, I say no problem, their country, their rules. If it causes problems for those using tourist visas, and if they still want to stay here, they will figure out something. After all, they are not breaking the rules, they are not breaking the law just by using back to back visas. As long as they follow the laws and rules they should be allowed to do it. I guess you could really say that they are not "abusing" the system, but are instead "working" the system. Sure they can complain about the changes, it is free speach. Wouldn't a person on a retirement visa complain if they upped the bank deposit to 1.5m baht? Or the spouse of a Thai citizen would complain if they bumped up the income to 100K baht/month? So why should they not complain about changes that affect them.

Now if they are working without work permits, that is something else because then they would not be following the rules and laws.

[koheesti]

If you want to stay here using whatever means that the Thai government will give you to do it legally, then I say welcome to you. If the Thai government wants to change the rules, I say no problem, their country, their rules.

I agree. If the gov't changes the rules, fine. But as I understand it, the consulate in Penang has decided to go a step further and instead of having a plane ticket out of Thailand as apparently written in the visa regulations, it must be to another country out of the region. So it looks like they are adding conditions on their own which are not part of the law.

As far as showing a plane ticket, I don't make concrete plans that far ahead. My 6 months ends in 3 weeks and it looks like I'm going to Hong Kong for a week and get my next visa there. I didn't know back in August that a friend of mine was going to be working there 6 months later and that's where I would go. In fact, I haven't bought my ticket yet and I plan to leave in about 18 days.

[sriracha john]

"Any chance of an explanation from one of you permanent residents without visa concerns? Is it purely out of boredom you reply to these threads, or is there some deeper reason?"

Well, here's your explanation, Tropo...

If I may so bold as to proffer a reply for Tropo, I would say it doesn't. Could you please explain further?

[tropo]

I'm sure it won't be long before a little side business will start in Penang providing advance hotel bookings and return air tickets to order.

Edited February 5, 2008 by tropo

[Maigo6]

I wonder what brought most of them to Thailand in the first place?

Probably the ease in which they could stay in Thailand on Tourist Visas.