Penang To Impose Stricter Rules When Issuing Tourist Visas

[Jingthing]

How can we flight? It seems to me the only thing we could do is to leave. And then the xenophobes would win. Best to hang on as long as possible and whine alot. It doesn't change anything, but it clears out the sinuses.

[bottleymike]

I totally agree.

This means that anyone wanting to live in Thailand has to be either working, studying or retired.

What about the independantly wealthy?

Perhaps the Thai government works on the basis that an independently wealthy farrang will soon meet a charming Thai lady ( complete with family, sick buffalo'es etc) and become a poor farrang, and so a burden to Thailand?

[robblok]

I didn't do that least of all because my employer asked me not to. More importantly, I never made the decision to live forever in Thailand... I was going to move on eventually to other places (When you work on the internet, why not see the world?), so I didn't feel it necessary to "put down roots." The Thai government more or less made up my mind for me.

It's no problem for me to move on, and I'm not bummed out about it — and I will be back to visit often — but I think this is a case of over-reaction on their part.

I won't argue that I most certainly could be defined as one of the people Thailand is aiming to chase out of here: I'm an American making a pile of money on the internet, and not paying any Thai taxes, and I don't begrudge Thailand the right to ask me to leave — or make it too difficult for me to stay — and I'm perfectly happy to move on, but other than the Thai government feeling like they are somehow more in control of their immigrant population, I don't see how this benefits Thailand in general.

Of course they have the right to ask you to leave if you dont want to pay taxes in Thailand or pay US taxes. I would love working here and not paying taxes as would most Thais with high salaries.

That's absolutely true: I get a $20,000 check every year from the IRS for living in Thailand and not paying taxes here. (Thank you America for the Overseas Tax Credit.) I'm not saying it's right, legal, or acceptable to Thailand... but Thailand let me do it up until now. Theoretically, I still could do it if I was willing to do visa runs to Prague, or go back to America and get 1-year visas like a sensible fellow, but my goal isn't to stay in Thailand anyway. These new visa rules are just what it takes to get me up and out, and I'm sure that is just what they wanted. Like I said though... no problem with me.

If your already paying taxes then ok i take back my words but there are a lot of ppl who think it is their right not to pay any taxes. But like i said earlier they must make working here legit easier.

[dogger]

i have just had the same happen to me in Hanoi thy would not let me have a tourist visa because i did not have my air ticket with me i had left it at my room in bangkok. I was just lucky i had my thai girl friend with me so she cauld guarentee my application other wise iwould not of been able to get the visa..

[JIP]

That's absolutely true: I get a $20,000 check every year from the IRS for living in Thailand and not paying taxes here. (Thank you America for the Overseas Tax Credit.) I'm not saying it's right, legal, or acceptable to Thailand... but Thailand let me do it up until now. Theoretically, I still could do it if I was willing to do visa runs to Prague, or go back to America and get 1-year visas like a sensible fellow, but my goal isn't to stay in Thailand anyway. These new visa rules are just what it takes to get me up and out, and I'm sure that is just what they wanted. Like I said though... no problem with me.

If your already paying taxes then ok i take back my words but there are a lot of ppl who think it is their right not to pay any taxes. But like i said earlier they must make working here legit easier.

Well, I don't pay taxes in effect because everything I pay to the IRS over the course of the year gets refunded. That's another reason I never applied for a work permit and kept working on a tourist visa: Why get involved with the Thai tax system if I didn't have to? I didn't want to, my company asked me not to, and it would cost me money that I didn't otherwise have to pay.

Well like I said: I was spending 100% of the millions of baht I earned every year (including all the tax money I got back from the IRS) in Thailand. Now I'm not. If that is what makes the Thai government happy, more power to them.

[dogit]

I saw this one coming a long way off... and it's only a matter of time before all Thai consulates and embassies have similar rules. That's why I'm headed to live in The Philippines at the end of this month: Up to 16 months on a single tourist visa without having to leave the country.

I'll be waiting for the rest of you to show up.

I moved to the Philippines about 7 - 8 months ago , you could see this coming and I am of the opinion the B visa is on the list, as that is a big hole they will want to fill, you can actualy stay here for up to 24 months under new rules then go to the nearest country , come back and do it all again. the visa situation is the only reason I left LOS I was not prepared to wait for them to make it impossible to live with the visa rules which seems to be the ultimate aim.

[rexall]

Indeed, Madcow: I gave Cambodia a long hard look, but my girlfriend is Filipina, and we're going back to her town to live for a while. But, Cambodia isn't bad either: Last I heard, 1-year visas were $200, renewable at the nearest immigration office.

JIP,

My research is three years old now, but last I heard, Cambodia visas were renewable at a window at the Lucky Supermarket, signed by the Chief of Police! That is not a joke. There is probably up-to-date info at Khmer440 forum

Aloha,

Rex

[SiamFalcon]

No need to worry, I just came back from Cambodia visa run with 18 months of tourist visas. I asked at immigration about this rule and they said that actually it is an old rule that can be enforeced everywhere and that there are signs on the PoiPet border saying that a ticket may be asked for.

The officers explained that such rules only apply when:

1) The subject is present on the list of known pedophiles

2) The subject is a suspect drug user or seller

3) The subject is clearly lacking funds and must therefore be working illegally

It is the illegal workers that trouble them the most with foreigners manufacturing designer drugs, using Thailand as a base for hacking, begging on the streets and BTS stations or other "jobs" deemed socially indesirable.

They explained that it is much easier to say "you need a ticket" than "bugger off, we dont want pedo predators in our schools"

Numerous Pattaya women have recently complained of tourists, often British, drugging them and then making off with their gold and money and such people are difficult to catch - by removing the penniless beggars then Thailand is cleaner for all the decent expatriates that work hard for a living and keep their fingers out of the children's panties.

The officer went on to say that genuine tourists are always welcome, there are many Africans doing illigitimate business in Thailand and rules are needed to weed them out.

Stangely enough I bumped into an African and decided to ask him, he explained that any rule is just so they can get 500 Baht from him and that as long as he has money he is staying.

[mangostays]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

Long stay tourists often work illegally, especially in touristy areas such as samui, phangan etc. The government quite rightly, wishes to cut down on the number of illegal workers, avoidance of tax contributions etc.

[Jingthing]

For all the defenders of the Mickey Mouse visa rules, perhaps we should rename the Stockholm syndrome the Siam Syndrome.

Edited January 31, 2008 by Jingthing

[A_Traveller]

Just to note the on-going ticket has always been a requirement, and requesting it is at the immigration officer's discretion. There really is nothing new here, if you go to get a tourist visa from within the country you should be able to show onward travel.

Regards

Edited January 31, 2008 by george
Edited by moderator

[parmi]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

Having been in thailand for 8 yrs and spending millions of baht on both house building and rental,general shopping and living costs,helping various poor families and not so poor families get a relatively good life started,and on top of this, giving no one a hard time,BUT only helping the general economy and still not understanding what the hel_l is wrong with this place they call THAILAND,(LAND OF SMILES)and why they are allways wanting to find ways to get us the (farangs )out as soon as possible, it has all turned to bullshit for me, ,LAND OF SMILES ,,MY ASS,,it seems to me that if you are not from another asian country ie:korea.japan.china(and any of these nationals can work or stay as long as they want) you really are not welcome here anymore. I only wished i knew why. but as of midnight 2008 i really have given up caring about the thai way of ripping us europians off and have decided on a move to a much friendlier country,the philippines,where the girls are just as sexy/friendly/giving and to top it all, speak english with gusto<< where the visa laws are with you,not against you and where a man can work and live without the fear of getting shut out at the turn of a hat from some wanna be PM ,or government worker trying to make a name for himself in the local party.( i know i sound like i am very upset and bitter and that many of you are saying that if you dont like it mate, then go away, well as i said before, im going, i just am very very sad that thailand has turned its back on the help given by the european thourists in the means of millions of dollars,over the last twenty or so yrs,its almost like,,, now we got your money, go the f--- away.well im out of here, see ya ,,,and good luck on getting japs.koreans and chinese to marry whats left of the girls in what was once the greatest place in the world for adult entertainment,but today is one of the worst.and is openly laughed about in other countries.(sorry ladies) but i think you really need a new strategy, THE ( HELLO SEXY MAN ) way of doing things is over.so from one long termer to someone looking to be filled in, sorry mate, i cant help. but if you do get a answer, please forward it to me.

cheers, have a great time in thailand.

[ozzydom]

1691 viewers reading this topic, must have struck a raw nerve.

[JIP]

Just to note the on-going ticket has always been a requirement, and requesting it is at the immigration officer's discretion. There really is nothing new here, if you go to get a tourist visa from within the country you should be able to show onward travel.

Regards

The onward ticket requirment indeed HAS always been a requirement, but Penang's refusal to accept onward tickets to other regional countries such as Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, or Indonesia as a valid onward ticket IS something new, contrary to your attempts to belittle this subject.

[stacker10]

I saw this one coming a long way off... and it's only a matter of time before all Thai consulates and embassies have similar rules. That's why I'm headed to live in The Philippines at the end of this month: Up to 16 months on a single tourist visa without having to leave the country.

I'll be waiting for the rest of you to show up.

Hi,I see you there,leaving 11feb after 6 years in Thailand I had enough of bullshit from the goverment,totaly brainless,so see you in Philippines(puerto galera,sabang)

[JIP]

I saw this one coming a long way off... and it's only a matter of time before all Thai consulates and embassies have similar rules. That's why I'm headed to live in The Philippines at the end of this month: Up to 16 months on a single tourist visa without having to leave the country.

I'll be waiting for the rest of you to show up.

Hi,I see you there,leaving 11feb after 6 years in Thailand I had enough of bullshit from the goverment,totaly brainless,so see you in Philippines(puerto galera,sabang)

Yes my brother! Amen! Power to the people! Power to the PI! Power to the Peso!

[rexall]

No need to worry, I just came back from Cambodia visa run with 18 months of tourist visas. I asked at immigration about this rule and they said that actually it is an old rule that can be enforced everywhere and that there are signs on the PoiPet border saying that a ticket may be asked for.

The officers explained that such rules only apply when:

1) The subject is present on the list of known pedophiles

2) The subject is a suspect drug user or seller

3) The subject is clearly lacking funds and must therefore be working illegally

<snip>

Interesting, Falcon. You may be correct. However, the first two on your list are certainly cable of having enough funds to buy an air ticket! Plus, anyone who is unscrupulous enough to try to get around the intent of the law, can buy a refundable R/T ticket and cash it in, even if s/he has to pay a penalty. What this does is rid Thailand of people who may be unwanted, but relatively harmless, while allowing the clever, rich and unscrupulous to do pretty much as they want, as they always have and as they probably always will.

Once again it is really only the poor who get screwed, as they have since the invention of poor people!

Dare I use the "X" word? Nah, I'm tired of getting hate mail and being told that as I am a "guest" I had better bend over, shut up and take it like a man . . . or leave! But when foreigners are consistently perceived as and treated as a potential threat, a group that needs to be scrutinized and tracked and controlled and regulated and kept "in line" by escalating piles of red tape in order to prevent something "bad" from happening . . . well, darn it . . . I begin to see X's!

Aloha,

Rex

[phuketrichard]

I'll be waiting for the rest of you to show up.

Not me mate , I,ve got a taste of Cambodia ......... and it tastes pretty dam good

Indeed, Madcow: I gave Cambodia a long hard look, but my girlfriend is Filipina, and we're going back to her town to live for a while. But, Cambodia isn't bad either: Last I heard, 1-year visas were $200, renewable at the nearest immigration office.

Long stay 1 year mutilple business visa in Cambodia $250 done thru a travel agent IN CAMBODIA not immigration.

I am on a non o cause i have a thai kid here but am going to divide my time between Cambodia and here.

Leave phuket druing the high season and avoid the tourists return with the monsoons.

BTW; Not all of us are here for JUST the women. I have been here for over 22 years and still love the place but the goverment has got its head up its ass

Edited January 31, 2008 by phuketrichard

[cobrarax]

Well! just how easy isit to get a long term turist visa in EU for a thai citizen? Or in US? I'm sure of that it can't be done by going in and out of the border. The visa rules in Thailand are indeed very generously compared with EU and US.

[A_Traveller]

Just to note the on-going ticket has always been a requirement, and requesting it is at the immigration officer's discretion. There really is nothing new here, if you go to get a tourist visa from within the country you should be able to show onward travel.

Regards

The onward ticket requirement indeed HAS always been a requirement, but Penang's refusal to accept onward tickets to other regional countries such as Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, or Indonesia as a valid onward ticket IS something new, contrary to your attempts to belittle this subject.

Hm.. Wrong, the perspective here is a tourist is expected to be just that, in other words there is an expectation to return to the point of origin. It has always been in an immigration officer's purview to ask for details of routing, and if in the officers view the ticket is either a sham, or is an attempt to, being polite, fudge, by the traveller, a visa may be refused. This, again, has always been the case, I recall being quizzed about such a situation more than 10 years ago, at most all that is happening here is that the consulate is advising people that it will view with concern such a 'round robin' approach.

Regards

[astor]

Stricter rules on Tourist visas issued in Penang from February 1, 2008

BANGKOK: -- The Royal Thai Consulate in Penang is expected to impose stricter rules regarding the issuing of Tourist Visas.

Thaivisa.com have been advised that the Royal Thai Consulate-General in Penang as from TOMORROW, February 1 2008, will only issue Tourist Visas to those in possession of an air ticket departing from Thailand to an international destination not local in the same region. (i.e. not Vietnam, Malaysia or similar.)

It is believed that the reason for the tightening of the rules is to reduce the number of foreigners using tourist visas to stay long term in Thailand, and not for tourism purposes for which this visa is intended, therefore abusing the system.

Of wich abuse they are talking about? Is there a thai law that prevents to stay long term under t.v? I know not!

Then, there is not abuse.

Our source is from a reliable person, who normally provides us with accurate information, and we have no reason to doubt the accuracy of this information.

The new ticket rule is not officially confirmed as yet.

--thaivisa.com 2008-01-31

[robblok]

Well! just how easy isit to get a long term turist visa in EU for a thai citizen? Or in US? I'm sure of that it can't be done by going in and out of the border. The visa rules in Thailand are indeed very generously compared with EU and US.

I agree and dont agree. Its easier to get a visa.. but working in Holland is much easier then in Thailand. They dont have rules like there should be 5 dutch ppl working on one foreigner. If they made it easier for ppl to work here in jobs that dont threaten Thais it would be perfect.

[g00dgirl]

I totally agree.

This means that anyone wanting to live in Thailand has to be either working, studying or retired.

What about the independantly wealthy?

The independently wealthy can get the Thailand Elite Card and stay without leaving.

[Jingthing]

Well! just how easy isit to get a long term turist visa in EU for a thai citizen? Or in US? I'm sure of that it can't be done by going in and out of the border. The visa rules in Thailand are indeed very generously compared with EU and US.

Irrelevant. Totally different stages of economic development.

[AndyCanfield]

I work for my American company on the internet, and pump several million baht into Thailand every year. That's more than any tourist I know of... more than any several tourists I know of. I was willing to do the "fly-to-Penang" thing 4 times a year for the priviledge of living here, but hey... if Thailand doesn't want people who do that living here no matter how much money they put into Thailand, that's fine. Either Philippines or Cambodia will bend over backwards for people to come and contuously pump money into their economy.

The way I see it, Thailand is just too prickly about people coming here and living a good life when other countries (Europe, North America) make it so difficult to do the same thing.

If you do that what keeps you from setting up a company and getting a workpermit with an other visa ?. Then your here legit with no problems you do have to pay taxes.

Well, if you want to legally work for your own company, you have to hire four Thai people to work there also, which will cost you about 20,000 baht per month at minimum wage. That's not counting laywer's fees, management headaches of dealing with Thai corporate law, learning accounting, etc.

I ran my own company for a while. After nine months I found out that at the end of the fiscal year we had to have a specially licensed outside accountant go over our books to swear that our books met Thai government accounting standards and create end-year financial statements from those books. My reaction was "Books? We're supposed to have books?"

[garro]

I think that unfortunately this tightening of regulations will affect the innocent as well as the less desirable westerner.

I think that Thailand should make it easier for those who are benefiting the country.

On the whole though, I can't say that I blame the Thai authorities for wanting to protect their country.

I think almost anybody who wants to genuinely stay here will find a way to do this legally.

It may be difficult, but a lot easier than the majority of Thais would find moving to the west.

[Brian Allen]

<< I work for "my American company on the internet" and "pump" several million baht (sic) into Thailand every year. >>

So -- given your apparent willingness to proceed on the presumtion the post at the head of this page is other than the projection of a fantasy and/or idle gossip -- Pump" a lousy few Thousand Baht into -- and present to the Consul when applying for your Thailand Tourist Visa -- a First Class ticket home.

[Kaojai]

I haven't seen to many farang taxi drivers, policemen, etc. around town.

Obviously you think Thais are only employed in low paying service jobs.

Tourist visas are intended for tourists. If you are working here for an American company or you want to take up long term residence under other terms, then you are not a tourist.

Most of the changes in immigration's rules that some of you complain about are actually just moves to implement both the letter of the law and the intent of the law.

The change requiring retirees to keep B800,000 in their bank accounts for a minimum of three months came about because people were shifting the same money around from account to account.

The changes concerning visa runs came about because people were obviously abusing the system.

There are probably some people who generate money for the Thai economy or are otherwise benign presences in the Kingdom who will be negatively affected by these stricter interpretations of rules and regulations, but then their frustration shouldn't be directed at the authorities but at the farangs who abuse the system to the point that the authorities feel compelled to react.

As for the ensuing mass exodus to the Phillipines or Cambodia and the loss of millions, if not billions, of baht from all these high quality migrants, we hear the same thing over and over, but it never seems to happen.

Visa rules are made in terms of generalities. In general, older retired people with sufficient money in the bank are a good source of money for the country and are less likely to be problems for the police than independently wealthy 30 year olds. In general people with certain skills or investment resources make a worthwhile contribution to the country. If the Phillipines or Cambodia or Upper Volta are desperate to attract larger numbers of dubious people along with some good people who don't fit Thai restrictions, then good for them.

Visa applications are a little like loan applications. When the criteria become too loosely enforced you end up with a subprime crisis.

[JIP]

<< I work for "my American company on the internet" and "pump" several million baht (sic) into Thailand every year. >>

So -- given your apparent willingness to proceed on the presumtion the post at the head of this page is other than the projection of a fantasy and/or idle gossip -- Pump" a lousy few Thousand Baht into -- and present to the Consul when applying for your Thailand Tourist Visa -- a First Class ticket home.

I'm sorry... what?

[Jingthing]

Visa applications are a little like loan applications. When the criteria become too loosely enforced you end up with a subprime crisis.

What crisis? There is no crisis here. How's the weather in Stockholm?