Penang To Impose Stricter Rules When Issuing Tourist Visas

[bangkokgas]

Well, what a thread. I' will be my usual presumtious self and assume that Phillipinos will be exempt as far as t.v.'s as concerned (after all, it's no secret that unscrupulous agencies get away with paying half the salary they would have to pay qualified Native teachers -and here I am not saying that Phillipinos are unqualifed or useful, in fact they are exploited according to those I have met). That is the "teaching thing".

As others have mentioned, plenty of other options for those like myself,under 50 who just want a quiet life travelling/writing whatever. Phillipines,ironically, beginning to look good!

[rona]

oh my gosh! what i will do now? because this coming week me and my fiancee are going to penang for exit, and i bought already a ticket for us but it's by train to hatyai and take a van to penang... this is much cheaper than on a plane... with my fiancee's passort i think there's no problem because he's on non-b but my passport is on tourist... oh oh... why they have a strict rules??? they doesn't like tourist in their country??? why instead check all schools that have a foreign teachers and they will find out that there's a lot of illegal workers specially Filipino's... sorry my colleagues but that's the truth...

[s.pylos]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

I work for my American company on the internet, and pump several million baht into Thailand every year. That's more than any tourist I know of... more than any several tourists I know of. I was willing to do the "fly-to-Penang" thing 4 times a year for the priviledge of living here, but hey... if Thailand doesn't want people who do that living here no matter how much money they put into Thailand, that's fine. Either Philippines or Cambodia will bend over backwards for people to come and contuously pump money into their economy.

The way I see it, Thailand is just too prickly about people coming here and living a good life when other countries (Europe, North America) make it so difficult to do the same thing.

If you do that what keeps you from setting up a company and getting a workpermit with an other visa ?. Then your here legit with no problems you do have to pay taxes.

I didn't do that least of all because my employer asked me not to. More importantly, I never made the decision to live forever in Thailand... I was going to move on eventually to other places (When you work on the internet, why not see the world?), so I didn't feel it necessary to "put down roots." The Thai government more or less made up my mind for me.

It's no problem for me to move on, and I'm not bummed out about it — and I will be back to visit often — but I think this is a case of over-reaction on their part.

I won't argue that I most certainly could be defined as one of the people Thailand is aiming to chase out of here: I'm an American making a pile of money on the internet, and not paying any Thai taxes, and I don't begrudge Thailand the right to ask me to leave — or make it too difficult for me to stay — and I'm perfectly happy to move on, but other than the Thai government feeling like they are somehow more in control of their immigrant population, I don't see how this benefits Thailand in general.

%^&*#$@! 'em. I'm in a similar situation as you. My work is over the Internet for an American company and doesn't involve Thailand or Thais whatsoever (except using TOT for Internet). I'm not making money in Thailand and I'm not taking work from anyone. On the other hand, I inject more money into the Thai economy than I would if they forced me to move elsewhere. I have no plans on putting down roots either so am not interested in setting up companies, etc. I'd rather move to The Philippines, Cambodia or somewhere else that appreciates my money.

Farang thinking "farangcentric"

If you ever set foot in the Thai Immigration office and look at who is asking for tourist visa extension, then you would know who this new policy is targeting...

[koheesti]

%^&*#$@! 'em. I'm in a similar situation as you. My work is over the Internet for an American company and doesn't involve Thailand or Thais whatsoever (except using TOT for Internet). I'm not making money in Thailand and I'm not taking work from anyone. On the other hand, I inject more money into the Thai economy than I would if they forced me to move elsewhere. I have no plans on putting down roots either so am not interested in setting up companies, etc. I'd rather move to The Philippines, Cambodia or somewhere else that appreciates my money.

Come, come, now. Don't be like that! You could always teach English for 28K per month. They are quite happy to let you do that! Or marry a "rich " Thai lady and use her 35K per month income as the basis of your visa application.

Aloha,

Rex

Sorry, I guess the part "I'm not making any money in Thailand" could sound like I need money. I meant, my work is in the US and that is where my money is made/earned. No money exchanges hands in Thailand except what I get out of the ATM.

[JIP]

Well, what a thread. I' will be my usual presumtious self and assume that Phillipinos will be exempt as far as t.v.'s as concerned (after all, it's no secret that unscrupulous agencies get away with paying half the salary they would have to pay qualified Native teachers -and here I am not saying that Phillipinos are unqualifed or useful, in fact they are exploited according to those I have met). That is the "teaching thing".

As others have mentioned, plenty of other options for those like myself,under 50 who just want a quiet life travelling/writing whatever. Phillipines,ironically, beginning to look good!

Heheh. See you there. March 1, 2008 for us: Me and the lady have our tickets for Manilla, and onward to a mountaintop villa in the city of Cagayan De Oro for half of what it would cost in the cheapest parts of Thailand... and best of all: NO MORE VISA RUNS ever again. (Oh: Drinks in the most expensive night club in town are 65 pesos... 50 baht.)

[JimmyTheMook]

I agree. If they want to chase off the "right" people, why not just make 3-month visa extensions at Immigration available for 20,000 baht? Costs about the same (or slightly less) than a visa run to Penang, and the Thai government gets all the money. I'd pay that with a smile on my face.

That is a very interesting idea with valid reasoning , please forward it to Thai immigration website and email it to the Bkk Post editorial section.

And you can reast assured some of higer ups have already read about here.

[andyc2006]

That's absolutely true: I get a $20,000 check every year from the IRS for living in Thailand and not paying taxes here. (Thank you America for the Overseas Tax Credit.) I'm not saying it's right, legal, or acceptable to Thailand... but Thailand let me do it up until now. Theoretically, I still could do it if I was willing to do visa runs to Prague, or go back to America and get 1-year visas like a sensible fellow, but my goal isn't to stay in Thailand anyway. These new visa rules are just what it takes to get me up and out, and I'm sure that is just what they wanted. Like I said though... no problem with me.

And you can't afford to buy a refundable ticket to the USA long enough to acquire a tourist visa?

[koheesti]

<snip> wanting to be more like Europe and North America with their immigration policies; and wanting to be seen as less of a place where "anybody" can go and live.

I was going to bow out of this thread figuring that I had annoyed enough people for one day . . . However, you're joking, right? More like North America??? America estimates up to 12 million (!!!) illegal immigrants, or whatever you prefer to call them, and the southern border is still an open floodgate.

I read somewhere that 10% of Mexico's GDP is money sent home by Mexicans working in America (most likely illegally). Sounds like this situation might apply more to Burmese, etc living/working in Thailand illegally than North Americans or Europeans. I wonder what %age of the UK's GDP is made up of Brits sending money home which they earn in Thailand? Anyone care to take a guess?

[rexall]

Sorry, I guess the part "I'm not making any money in Thailand" could sound like I need money. I meant, my work is in the US and that is where my money is made/earned. No money exchanges hands in Thailand except what I get out of the ATM.

Sorry, I was speaking with tongue-in-cheek! Should have used a smilie. I was just making a half-assed point that if you wanted to "come in out of the cold" and get "legal", you could always teach English for 28K per month . . . and segueing into the related point that they will allow you to live here on 28K but you need more than double that to be retired . . . but you can live off your rich "old lady's" 35K income.

Sorry, just being silly.

Aloha,

Rex

[JimmyTheMook]

(1) Because I never planned on staying here forever, and didn't feel it necessary to go through the process of getting a long-term visa.

(3) Most simply, because, before, I could stay in Thailand for a long time on a tourist visa.

I'm here because I'm on vacation... a very long vacation. I work on the internet while I'm on vacation.

Hey JIP , don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out......

[JIP]

That's absolutely true: I get a $20,000 check every year from the IRS for living in Thailand and not paying taxes here. (Thank you America for the Overseas Tax Credit.) I'm not saying it's right, legal, or acceptable to Thailand... but Thailand let me do it up until now. Theoretically, I still could do it if I was willing to do visa runs to Prague, or go back to America and get 1-year visas like a sensible fellow, but my goal isn't to stay in Thailand anyway. These new visa rules are just what it takes to get me up and out, and I'm sure that is just what they wanted. Like I said though... no problem with me.

And you can't afford to buy a refundable ticket to the USA long enough to acquire a tourist visa?

Well, of course I could buy a ticket, and that's a fine idea as far as it goes, but it's adding one more thing that I need to do to stay in Thailand and... well... the fact simply is that it is one thing too many.

It used to be that once a month, I'd have to wake up at 5:30 a.m., and ride in a van out to the border, and be back to my desk by 2:00 p.m. and miss no more than half a day at the computer. That was fine... catch up on my reading and get a snooze in the van. Then, it went to overnight trips to Penang, where I had to miss a day and a half of pay. That was fine though... a little sightseeing and a night on the town. It's just that they keep adding to it and adding to it, and eventually (i.e. now) gets to be just too much effort... especially when nearby countries where the living is at least just as nice as Thailand offer much more facile visa maintenance.

[koheesti]

For those planning on moving to The Philippines, be sure to check out Guam just a short flight east. It's an American territory with great diving and snorkling. The water is a helluva lot cleaner than down here around Samui and tropical fish are within two meters of the shore. The infrastructure is wonderful, everyone speaks English and the locals are genuinely friendly. Not a bad place for a weekend getaway to the poor man's Hawaii.

[Tankbreather]

Does anyone know if Kota Bharu has the same requirement. I'm going there this weekend to get a tourist visa.

[JIP]

I'm here because I'm on vacation... a very long vacation. I work on the internet while I'm on vacation.

Hey JIP , don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out......

Jimmy, just remember: Not all who wander the hel_l out of Thailand are lost. Philippines, here I come!

[samran]

%^&*#$@! 'em. I'm in a similar situation as you. My work is over the Internet for an American company and doesn't involve Thailand or Thais whatsoever (except using TOT for Internet). I'm not making money in Thailand and I'm not taking work from anyone. On the other hand, I inject more money into the Thai economy than I would if they forced me to move elsewhere. I have no plans on putting down roots either so am not interested in setting up companies, etc. I'd rather move to The Philippines, Cambodia or somewhere else that appreciates my money.

Come, come, now. Don't be like that! You could always teach English for 28K per month. They are quite happy to let you do that! Or marry a "rich " Thai lady and use her 35K per month income as the basis of your visa application.

Aloha,

Rex

Sorry, I guess the part "I'm not making any money in Thailand" could sound like I need money. I meant, my work is in the US and that is where my money is made/earned. No money exchanges hands in Thailand except what I get out of the ATM.

I'm guessing the rules are aimed at persons such as yourself. Do you happen to be living in Thailand more that 183 days per year? If yes, then you are a tax resident. Are you paying income tax on the monies that you bring into Thailand? Do you have a work permit for undertaking that work (even though your clients are elsewhere).

[garro]

This change doesn't really affect me, but it proably will affect some that I know.

I find it a bit sad that so many posters seem to be welcoming the news with glee.

Enjoying the misfortunes of others isn't a particularly endearing quality in people.

[rexall]

I agree. If they want to chase off the "right" people, why not just make 3-month visa extensions at Immigration available for 20,000 baht? Costs about the same (or slightly less) than a visa run to Penang, and the Thai government gets all the money. I'd pay that with a smile on my face.

That is a very interesting idea with valid reasoning , please forward it to Thai immigration website and email it to the Bkk Post editorial section.

And you can reast assured some of higer ups have already read about here.

Thu 31 Jan 08, 8:49 p.m.

This "seems" perfectly reasonable and logical at first glance. JIP is hardly the first to make this suggestion. I don't know if he intends it to be ironic or not . . . but if it is not ironic, he misses the point entirely. The point is that the gov does not want nor intend to make things too easy or too comfortable for expats here. It is not a part of their plan that expat--on whatever type of vis--ever feel too much at home, or ever forget their status as "guests" in the Kingdom. America does this too. Every temporary worker program that has been implement or is planned for the future includes a provision that the expat return to his or her country of origin periodically. And there is absolutely no other reason or explanation for this in America or in Thailand than to deliberately inconvenience the "guests" so that they do not get too comfortable or too "uppity" and hence forget their place in the grand scheme of things.

Aloha,

Rex

[samran]

This change doesn't really affect me, but it proably will affect some that I know.

I find it a bit sad that so many posters seem to be welcoming the news with glee.

Enjoying the misfortunes of others isn't a particularly endearing quality in people.

I personally find the rules that make it hard for families to stay together very hard to swallow (and the lack of automatic residency and work rights that comes with it). I really don't think granting a foreign spouse automatic work rights is going to sway them to stay here or not. The low salary vis a vis the west will usually make up their minds for them -so you might as well give the family every chance of staying together here in LOS, and let economics take care of the rest.

But, I'm less concerned people exploting tourist visas when they are actually here for other purposes.

As an Australian turning up to the UK, immigration gets very suspcious of me turning up at heathrow if I've had more than a couple of months in the UK already on a toursit visa. Why should Thailand be critisised for doing the same thing esentially?

[BigSnake]

Why the hard line, I wonder. DAM

[Jingthing]

For those planning on moving to The Philippines, be sure to check out Guam just a short flight east. It's an American territory with great diving and snorkling. The water is a helluva lot cleaner than down here around Samui and tropical fish are within two meters of the shore. The infrastructure is wonderful, everyone speaks English and the locals are genuinely friendly. Not a bad place for a weekend getaway to the poor man's Hawaii.

I haven't been there but some research revealed it is a total sheithole with a huge housing shortage, with little to do, all at high American prices.

[koheesti]

%^&*#$@! 'em. I'm in a similar situation as you. My work is over the Internet for an American company and doesn't involve Thailand or Thais whatsoever (except using TOT for Internet). I'm not making money in Thailand and I'm not taking work from anyone. On the other hand, I inject more money into the Thai economy than I would if they forced me to move elsewhere. I have no plans on putting down roots either so am not interested in setting up companies, etc. I'd rather move to The Philippines, Cambodia or somewhere else that appreciates my money.

Come, come, now. Don't be like that! You could always teach English for 28K per month. They are quite happy to let you do that! Or marry a "rich " Thai lady and use her 35K per month income as the basis of your visa application.

Aloha,

Rex

Sorry, I guess the part "I'm not making any money in Thailand" could sound like I need money. I meant, my work is in the US and that is where my money is made/earned. No money exchanges hands in Thailand except what I get out of the ATM.

I'm guessing the rules are aimed at persons such as yourself. Do you happen to be living in Thailand more that 183 days per year? If yes, then you are a tax resident. Are you paying income tax on the monies that you bring into Thailand? Do you have a work permit for undertaking that work (even though your clients are elsewhere).

I haven't been here that long. I'll look into it though in case I hit that mark. I guess Thaivisa has someone to recommend?

[JimmyTheMook]

I'm here because I'm on vacation... a very long vacation. I work on the internet while I'm on vacation.

Hey JIP , don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out......

Jimmy, just remember: Not all who wander the hel_l out of Thailand are lost. Philippines, here I come!

Good luck there and hope you are happy.

Some advice if you want to live *ANYWHERE* in comfort , try and get a visa that will keep you from having to renew it every 2 months as you state you will have to do in PI.

Where there is a will there is a way and you probably could have found a way to secure a long term Thai visa if you were earning enough money to get a $20,000 tax refund.

I have been to the PI and found it still borderline 3rd world with a outwardly hostile population and shit food, Thailand with the correct visa is a better place to be

Edited January 31, 2008 by JimmyTheMook

[koheesti]

This change doesn't really affect me, but it proably will affect some that I know.

I find it a bit sad that so many posters seem to be welcoming the news with glee.

Enjoying the misfortunes of others isn't a particularly endearing quality in people.

No it's not. But it is very telling about whatever personal demons they have knawing at their insides.

[husky]

Well like I said: I was spending 100% of the millions of baht I earned every year (including all the tax money I got back from the IRS) in Thailand. Now I'm not. If that is what makes the Thai government happy, more power to them.

Didn't read every comment, but there are a lot like this. Actually, I think the Thai government really doesn't want farangs spending their money here. Why? Too much foreign investment driving up the currency, which makes life difficult for all of the exporters (a major segment of the economy). Their stated goal is to drive down the value of the currency to make exports more competitive, as long as there is more money/foreigners wanting to come in than can be accommodated, no surprise they can tighten up the rules and not worry about those who end up not spending their money here.

[chinadarling]

Actually some of the the airlines are the worst at dealing with this. Aircanada and cathay pacific insist you need a return ticket to go to hk yet hk gov has no such regulations. I would be more worried about the airlines than immigration.

[samran]

%^&*#$@! 'em. I'm in a similar situation as you. My work is over the Internet for an American company and doesn't involve Thailand or Thais whatsoever (except using TOT for Internet). I'm not making money in Thailand and I'm not taking work from anyone. On the other hand, I inject more money into the Thai economy than I would if they forced me to move elsewhere. I have no plans on putting down roots either so am not interested in setting up companies, etc. I'd rather move to The Philippines, Cambodia or somewhere else that appreciates my money.

Come, come, now. Don't be like that! You could always teach English for 28K per month. They are quite happy to let you do that! Or marry a "rich " Thai lady and use her 35K per month income as the basis of your visa application.

Aloha,

Rex

Sorry, I guess the part "I'm not making any money in Thailand" could sound like I need money. I meant, my work is in the US and that is where my money is made/earned. No money exchanges hands in Thailand except what I get out of the ATM.

I'm guessing the rules are aimed at persons such as yourself. Do you happen to be living in Thailand more that 183 days per year? If yes, then you are a tax resident. Are you paying income tax on the monies that you bring into Thailand? Do you have a work permit for undertaking that work (even though your clients are elsewhere).

I haven't been here that long. I'll look into it though in case I hit that mark. I guess Thaivisa has someone to recommend?

I guess you haven't been here that long yet. All work undertaken in Thailand technically requires a work permit, or else the proper dispensation from authorities to perform a certian role while you are here.

[chinadarling]

Well like I said: I was spending 100% of the millions of baht I earned every year (including all the tax money I got back from the IRS) in Thailand. Now I'm not. If that is what makes the Thai government happy, more power to them.

Didn't read every comment, but there are a lot like this. Actually, I think the Thai government really doesn't want farangs spending their money here. Why? Too much foreign investment driving up the currency, which makes life difficult for all of the exporters (a major segment of the economy). Their stated goal is to drive down the value of the currency to make exports more competitive, as long as there is more money/foreigners wanting to come in than can be accommodated, no surprise they can tighten up the rules and not worry about those who end up not spending their money here.

Wow you give them too much credit I don't think they have really thought through the policy. Most immigration policy is just tit for tat with other countries, not well throught through in terms of what is best for the country.

[tropo]

I saw this one coming a long way off... and it's only a matter of time before all Thai consulates and embassies have similar rules. That's why I'm headed to live in The Philippines at the end of this month: Up to 16 months on a single tourist visa without having to leave the country.

I'll be waiting for the rest of you to show up.

You can now stay for 24 months without having to leave. After 16 months you'll have a different application form to fill. It's only a new policy, so it will be some time before anyone does it.

[CTM]

I didn't do that least of all because my employer asked me not to. More importantly, I never made the decision to live forever in Thailand... I was going to move on eventually to other places (When you work on the internet, why not see the world?), so I didn't feel it necessary to "put down roots." The Thai government more or less made up my mind for me.

It's no problem for me to move on, and I'm not bummed out about it — and I will be back to visit often — but I think this is a case of over-reaction on their part.

I won't argue that I most certainly could be defined as one of the people Thailand is aiming to chase out of here: I'm an American making a pile of money on the internet, and not paying any Thai taxes, and I don't begrudge Thailand the right to ask me to leave — or make it too difficult for me to stay — and I'm perfectly happy to move on, but other than the Thai government feeling like they are somehow more in control of their immigrant population, I don't see how this benefits Thailand in general.

Of course they have the right to ask you to leave if you dont want to pay taxes in Thailand or pay US taxes. I would love working here and not paying taxes as would most Thais with high salaries.

That's absolutely true: I get a $20,000 check every year from the IRS for living in Thailand and not paying taxes here. (Thank you America for the Overseas Tax Credit.) I'm not saying it's right, legal, or acceptable to Thailand... but Thailand let me do it up until now. Theoretically, I still could do it if I was willing to do visa runs to Prague, or go back to America and get 1-year visas like a sensible fellow, but my goal isn't to stay in Thailand anyway. These new visa rules are just what it takes to get me up and out, and I'm sure that is just what they wanted. Like I said though... no problem with me.

Hate to inform you but if you are working in Thailand without a WP or paying taxes then claiming the overseas tax exemption to also avoid US taxes is criminal tax evasion. You do not have income derived from a job overseas. You have US income paid out to you overseas. You have to pay taxes somewhere.

When the IRS audits you, you are fuc_ked. Minimum of back taxes plus 20% and compounded interest with probable jail time.

I would get a good US tax attorney and tax accountant if I was you and clean this up while you can still claim a mistake based on ignorance.

[JimmyTheMook]

This change doesn't really affect me, but it proably will affect some that I know.

I find it a bit sad that so many posters seem to be welcoming the news with glee.

Enjoying the misfortunes of others isn't a particularly endearing quality in people.

No it's not. But it is very telling about whatever personal demons they have knawing at their insides.

Why because some people play by the real visa rules and do not try and skirt them by living in Thailand on tourist visa's?

The laws have been lax for a really long time and the crack down has been slow and very gradual.

Most have caught on and left already.