Is There Any Way I Can Retrieve My Money?

[dancemonkeydance]

So, on the 17th January I left my Thai ATM card in the machine - took my money and walked off, leaving the card behind. I had to call the agency I work for to cancel it (they own my account), and send a replacement. The replacement arrived last week, and imagine my surprise to discover that 38000THB was missing from my account. A few more days of running around getting hold of statements ensued, before discovering that, yes this money was withdrawn from my account on the same day I lost my card (but after, obviously). So clearly I've been the victim of a robbery. How they got hold of my PIN number and cleaned me out I don't know, but what I want to know is - do I stand a chance of having it returned to me? Haven't contacted the bank yet - is there any poiny speaking to them, or will they just laugh in my face?

[lazeeboy]

not a chance of getting your money back ,leaving your card was your fault ,losing your money if told to the bank could seem you are scamming them ,wipe your mouth ,its a lesson learned.

[fletchsmile]

No harm in asking.

BTW Was the money taken from your account after your agency called to cancel the card. That could also make a difference.

[T_Dog]

It sounds quite unusual that someone could guess your PIN number in a short period of time. (I wonder if Thai banks lock you out after a certain number of incorrect tries?) Best of luck in your recovery.

Was your PIN number a common number like 1234 or all the same digit like 3333?

[dancemonkeydance]

The card was still active at the time. And my PIN number was not exactly obvious and Thai banks do lock you out after 3 attempts. At the moment I'm thinking that it was either:

a) A computer crime - Somebody managed to hack into my card and find the PIN. It sounds pretty implausible but I have heard of it happening in the past. Always dismissed it as a horror story but, you never know...

Someone stood behind me and eyed me up as I entered my pin, and made a grab for card when I walked away. Unlikely, because it's rare that anyone forgets their card, so it would take a seriously patient person to wait behind every single customer.

Anyone ever heard of either of these things happening? Or got any better ideas about how someone could get hold of my PIN? Right now I'm more curious than angry. Guess that'll change later...

Edited February 11, 2008 by dancemonkeydance

[TerryLH]

Did the agency know the PIN number?

You could find out what ATM was used, and see if they have a camera there.

I'd notify the police as well as the bank the card comes from.

[LivinLOS]

My buddy got hit with multiple 50k max withdrawals (must have been a clone) the bank showed absolutely no interest.. Neither did the police.. in the end he just closed the account and walked away..

Banking security here is awful.. After my wife died it took about 10 mins of thinking before I worked out how to empty her account.. My buddy was given 2 million he shouldnt have had.. etc etc etc..

Thai banks are OK for pocket money but I wouldnt put any more than that in one..

[bf2002]

So, on the 17th January I left my Thai ATM card in the machine - took my money and walked off, leaving the card behind. I had to call the agency I work for to cancel it (they own my account), and send a replacement. The replacement arrived last week, and imagine my surprise to discover that 38000THB was missing from my account. A few more days of running around getting hold of statements ensued, before discovering that, yes this money was withdrawn from my account on the same day I lost my card (but after, obviously). So clearly I've been the victim of a robbery. How they got hold of my PIN number and cleaned me out I don't know, but what I want to know is - do I stand a chance of having it returned to me? Haven't contacted the bank yet - is there any poiny speaking to them, or will they just laugh in my face?

Forget the idiotic reply you just got on letting it go.

If you are dealing with an ATM card issued by a Western bank, you are usually covered if you report the theft within 2-5 business days. My bank has a 3 day rule, but it's 3 days from when you realize you lost your card or saw the lost funds.

the only question here is whether your leaving the ATM card in the machine constitutes you losing your card.

[bino]

Maybe your entered PIN was still valid when you walked away and left your card in the machine?

The next person to approach the ATM saw "Would you like another transaction?" on the screen, and said YES!

I'd be sorely tempted to say yes too.

[IMChris]

Dont they have a Camera at every ATM machine ?? It's easy to look for the Guy or Gal who used it by the time stamp of the transaction and the Camera's time. At least you would have a picture of the crimminal.

[torrenova]

I was once at a Kaisikorn bank when a guy in front of me asked for a statement. He took the slip and walked. I didn't realise at first until I could not put my card in but i could have gotten the maximum withdrawl as his pin was still active. There is no bank that allows 38 bills to be issued. The maximum I have seen is 25 so someone doign 38k would have to enter the pin again.

Another thing though is that they could have purchased a laptop or something up to your available balance or a car if you had enough !

[mickba]

Bino's idea sounds most likely unless you know different - i.e. I think most machines eject your card as you take the money and they'd then have to re-enter the PIN - easy enough to get the bank to check the time difference between your withdrawal and the other/s I'd have thought?

Good luck but............

[swain]

Was it a master card or visa debit ATM card? If so maybe someone just charged that amount. My wife takes my card to fill the gas tank all the time and they never say anything.. she doesn't look like a Farang male by any stretch of the imagination. If its charges instead of atm withdrawals then you have a REAL chance of getting the money back. Contact your bank!

[dancemonkeydance]

It was ATM withdrawals - two different ones at a different ATM to the one I lost my card, and later in the day (Thai bank account, by the way). I've got Thai friends and co-workers on the case harrassing the bank in a far more culturally sensitive manner than I could manage, so I guess the only answer is wait and see. Still at a loss to know exactly how they managed to do it though - I guess the only answer is that there are people far more clever and far more unscrupulous than I could ever be.

Learnt my lesson, by the way - I've arranged to transfer all my money into my Western bank account every payday. It'll cost me a packet in ATM withdrawal charges, but you can't put a price on peace of mind...

[bino]

It was ATM withdrawals - two different ones at a different ATM to the one I lost my card, and later in the day

Still at a loss to know exactly how they managed to do it though

If it was two separate withdrawals at different ATMs, your PIN had to be obtained somehow.

Perhaps you had previously used a "rigged" ATM where a bogus keyboard overlay and card reader have been fitted, which records your data, enabling the criminals to make a clone of your card.

Losing your card on the same day they decided to hit you may have been a complete coincidence.

I guess the only answer is that there are people far more clever and far more unscrupulous than I could ever be.

Absolutely!

[LivinLOS]

You could always have a deposit account with no ATM card, and a secondary pocket money account that does have a cash card.. Use internet banking to top one up as it gets low.

[naka]

Dont they have a Camera at every ATM machine ?? It's easy to look for the Guy or Gal who used it by the time stamp of the transaction and the Camera's time. At least you would have a picture of the crimminal.

Some Kasikorn ATM's take your pic before returning the card, they even seem to wait

till you are looking at the screen before taking the pic ... or am I just paranoid ?

Naka.

[mickba]

Learnt my lesson, by the way - I've arranged to transfer all my money into my Western bank account every payday. It'll cost me a packet in ATM withdrawal charges, but you can't put a price on peace of mind...

Apologies if I'm wrong but you 'sound' British - if so then a Nationwide Flexi ac might be the best option - you can feed into it online from your main bank a/c or wherever and then withdraw at any ATM anywhere FOC - you can even earn interest (subject to conditions) - it has worked very well for me here, Europe, Oz and USA

http://nationwide.co.uk/security/secure-on...ing/Cookies.htm

[lingnoi34]

Sounds like the "Lebanese Sling" trick where they rig the atm to not return your card and then after you leave they retrieve the card with the help of a wire/thread of some sort. They got your pin by watching you while you withdrew money...

L

[Smithson]

I've had money go missing from my account a couple of times. In each case I'd tried to withdraw but had been unable to (got a message like 'transaction error' of something similar). The machine returned my card without giving me the cash, but when I check later I saw it'd been deducted from the account.

When I rang the bank they were able to pick the error and return my cash. If I hadn't complained nothing I wouldn't have gotten the cash back. The only reason I realized the money was missing was because there was only a little in the account.

[simon43]

I kept quiet out of embarressment, but I was 'scammed' out of 100,000 baht over Xmas/New Year.

I regularly used the Bangkok Bank ATM at the corner of Sukhumvit and Soi 18 (7-11 shop). Apparently someone fitted a false keyboard/reader and copied many ATM cards. I was aware of this type of scam but never noticed a thing wrong with the machine. I stayed in Phuket over Xmas/New Year and did not use my ATM card. But a thief in BKK did and withdrew 5 x 20,000 baht in the Yarowat district. BKK Bank cancelled my card when they found the false keyboard on the ATM machine. I went to file a report and they refused to compensate me!! They said that it was the risk of banking with a Thai bank, but they would give me a new ATM card for free!!! I spoke with senior bank management in their Silom road HQ and - despite being a customer with them for 5 years and despite me having done nothing wrong and despite it being a BKK Bank ATM machine 'at fault' - a refund was refused....

I reckon my money is safer under my mattress

Simon

[g00dgirl]

I kept quiet out of embarressment, but I was 'scammed' out of 100,000 baht over Xmas/New Year.

I regularly used the Bangkok Bank ATM at the corner of Sukhumvit and Soi 18 (7-11 shop). Apparently someone fitted a false keyboard/reader and copied many ATM cards. I was aware of this type of scam but never noticed a thing wrong with the machine. I stayed in Phuket over Xmas/New Year and did not use my ATM card. But a thief in BKK did and withdrew 5 x 20,000 baht in the Yarowat district. BKK Bank cancelled my card when they found the false keyboard on the ATM machine. I went to file a report and they refused to compensate me!! They said that it was the risk of banking with a Thai bank, but they would give me a new ATM card for free!!! I spoke with senior bank management in their Silom road HQ and - despite being a customer with them for 5 years and despite me having done nothing wrong and despite it being a BKK Bank ATM machine 'at fault' - a refund was refused....

I reckon my money is safer under my mattress

Simon

Thank you for not being too embarrassed to post this, because it is important for people to know things like this. "The risk of banking with a Thai bank", great ...

[g00dgirl]

I've had money go missing from my account a couple of times. In each case I'd tried to withdraw but had been unable to (got a message like 'transaction error' of something similar). The machine returned my card without giving me the cash, but when I check later I saw it'd been deducted from the account.

When I rang the bank they were able to pick the error and return my cash. If I hadn't complained nothing I wouldn't have gotten the cash back. The only reason I realized the money was missing was because there was only a little in the account.

Could you report which bank was so kind help with your problem?

[rak sa_ngop]

I kept quiet out of embarressment, but I was 'scammed' out of 100,000 baht over Xmas/New Year.

I regularly used the Bangkok Bank ATM at the corner of Sukhumvit and Soi 18 (7-11 shop). Apparently someone fitted a false keyboard/reader and copied many ATM cards. I was aware of this type of scam but never noticed a thing wrong with the machine. I stayed in Phuket over Xmas/New Year and did not use my ATM card. But a thief in BKK did and withdrew 5 x 20,000 baht in the Yarowat district. BKK Bank cancelled my card when they found the false keyboard on the ATM machine. I went to file a report and they refused to compensate me!! They said that it was the risk of banking with a Thai bank, but they would give me a new ATM card for free!!! I spoke with senior bank management in their Silom road HQ and - despite being a customer with them for 5 years and despite me having done nothing wrong and despite it being a BKK Bank ATM machine 'at fault' - a refund was refused....

I reckon my money is safer under my mattress

Simon

Sorry to hear about your loss.

Although I always try and use ATM's inside banks and maybe shopping malls, there have been times when I have withdrawn on the street.

Based on your experience there seems almost no advantage in keeping money in a savings account (interest rate on a savings account still 0.8 pc?) unless you need it there for a retirement visa in which case maybe you should decline having an ATM card.

I think I will now withdraw the bulk of my money, maybe just keep enough for special situations when out of town. I live in a pretty secure condo with no maids etc who have keys so definitely more secure than the BKK bank, where I also have my account.

Thanks for your posting.

[Briggsy]

Simon, that is appalling behaviour by the bank. I understand why you gave up though. I tried to get a mere 3000 Baht out of the Krung Thai that they scammed me out of. It was like coming up against a stonewall. I even followed the complaints procedure at the Head Office. What happened? They just bounced the complaint straight back to the same woman at the same branch where the scam happened who just left a giggling message in my voicebox. Closed the account and learnt a lesson. But for 100,000 Baht, well I'd go to the Consumer Protection Bureau who may be able to help you.

[Jangot]

I had a happier experience:

A couple of years ago, I tried to withdraw BHT10,000 with my Bangkok Bank ATM card. The machine gave me a receipt showing the withdrawal - but no cash.

Fortunately I was using the machine outside my branch (Thapai Road, CNX). So, I immediately went in to the bank and reported it.

Very friendly lady helped me to fill out a report form, and said when the machine's transactions were tallied at the end of the day, they would verify and refund (if proven).

Week or so later, the money was credited back to my account.

Not all Thai banking stories are horror stories

I would certainly chase the loss of THB100,000 to the bitter (or sweet) end, especially as you reported it promptly.

[burman]

Simon43 the bank fobbed you off with a lame excuse and you took it. I would have taken it much further.

[teej]

Simon that's a horrible story. Sorry to hear that. As for the OP, as in Simon's case, I don't think you can count on the bank for any type of recourse. But it's worth a try. Try having some Thai colleagues chat with the bank. You also can consider yourself lucky though, at least it was just 38k, simon lost 100k and I'm sure many more have been scammed for much more.

I have an acct at Bangkok bank for petty cash only. All of my money I keep offshore (HK). I would not recommend any high net worth individuals to keep excess amounts of money in Thai Banks, your hard-earned money is much safer offshore. Just my opinion.