When You See A Thai And Farang Together, Is Your First Thought That They Are Romantically Involved?

[submaniac]

OK I will have to explain this one. I am Thai (in my 30's, could pass for my 20's--of course I could be deluding myself on the appearance thing) and there's a farang who lives in my neighborhood, who I chat with, eat with, and stop on the stret to talk to on occasion. He's in his 50's, totally pleasant and great guy to talk to (especially since it's nice to be able to talk in English). We're both completely straight, and when we do hang out it's like two normal guy...well just hanging out. Anyways, when we do take a moment to hang out, I get the impression that others around us think that there is...ummm...that there's something else going on there. Either that I am somehow his 'boyfriend' or 'paid' to be his boyfriend. And I get this impression from seeing others around us sneaking looks our way when they think I am not noticing.

So I guess the first question I am wondering is, if you saw a young Thai male with an older farang (sitting or standing together, but not necessarily hearing what they are saying), would you think that they are 'boyfriends'? Or one is a...ummm...'paid' boyfriend? Not talking about in depth analysis, just wondering what the 'first thought that popped into your head' would be. (And keep in mind I find nothing wrong with being gay...though potentially being thought of as a prostitute is a bit disconcerting).

Now thinking about this has lead me further down the road to thinking about Thai/farang interractions in general. And when I say that, it starts me thinking that when I see a farang and a Thai together, there are instances when I probably do think there is some romantic relationship.

For example, if you see an older man and a younger woman, and both are either farang or both Thai, you may not necessarily think that they are romantically involved. Could be father and daughter, boss and employee, friends, etc. However, (at least in the case of the farang being older) if it was an older farang guy and a young Thai woman, I would think that there is a romantic relationship of some sort there. And I will not keep it restricted to age difference either. If I see a young guy in his 20's (the backpacker type) with a Thai girl of the same age, I too would think that they are 'together' too.

Now it isn't just because they are male and female either. In Western countries, you would not automatically think that a farang man, and a farang woman, by virtue of being in each other's physical presence are necessarily a couple. Same in Thailand, for a Thai man and a Thai woman. They may be together, maybe not. But when it's a mixed couple, is it just me or do you think they are indeed a 'couple'.

And I will throw out one more example before I finish this up. In the West, if you saw two men together, talking, eating, sitting, whatever, you wouldn't think much of it. In Thailand, two Thai men together...nothing to think about either. But when I see a Thai guy and a Farang guy (same age) I generally think that they are boyfriends.

So anyways, am I the only one who thinks this/am completely whacko in my beliefs, or does anyone generally think the same as me? Just curious. Don't mean to offend anyone, or get into a deep philosophical debate here.

[Maigo6]

Personally, I wouldn't waste a thought on two total strangers.

[submaniac]

Personally, I wouldn't waste a thought on two total strangers.

Keep in mind I am Thai. We are nosey and inquisitive. That's why we know what everyone else in the soi is up to.

[siamesekitty]

I am not voting because there is no "depends" option.

For some pairs, it is rather obvious, or at least appear to be suspiciously so. You know, the ones that have a certain "look". For most normal straight-looking guys together I don't assume it, especially if the Thai guy looks and acts "inter".

I admit that I have inwardly made assumptions regarding some farangs and Thais together (both male-male & male-female) and accept that I have probably been the object of such assumptions myself. However, I don't let it bother me too much because I know I'm not a prostitute and nobody I know, if they had bumped into us, would think so either. But if I had been one I'd probably (ironically) be a lot more indignant.

[goldfish]

I think you think too much

[micksterbs]

It could be that I'm reading your OP incorrectly, submaniac, but you seem to be uncomfortable with the thought of others possibly viewing you and your friend as "a couple". Ok, fair enough. But you conclude by saying that if you see a Thai and Farang in each other's company, you assume that they are together. Odd.

Personally, I can't say that thought has ever entered my head when I'm with Thai men, of whatever age. But then maybe I'm being naive. Or unobservant of those around me.

[Boo]

I think it really depends on how the couple are acting to each other. Generally I can't say I have ever really given it thought just on the basis of what they looked like but of course body langauge, physical & eye contact all play more subtle parts in sussing out someones relationship but no, I don't assume 2 guys together regardless of nationality or age, are a couple but for example, if I saw one of them touching the other ina gentle manner or flirting then would think they were involved or about to be as I don't know any straight men who would be overly physical or flirt with another man.

[submaniac]

It could be that I'm reading your OP incorrectly, submaniac, but you seem to be uncomfortable with the thought of others possibly viewing you and your friend as "a couple". Ok, fair enough. But you conclude by saying that if you see a Thai and Farang in each other's company, you assume that they are together. Odd.

Personally, I can't say that thought has ever entered my head when I'm with Thai men, of whatever age. But then maybe I'm being naive. Or unobservant of those around me.

You know you are absolutely correct. But I don't think it is inconsistent. Thinking about it, it could just be that if it was me looking in on me and my friend, well that is what I would think if I saw us there. And my thoughts are I think I would be more uncomfortable with the idea of people thinking I am 'paid' to be a boyfriend. ANd I will tell you another truth, that whenever I see a young Thai with an older farang, I seriously do wonder sometimes if they are paid to be there. I just see it so many times.

And my thoughts are just initial thoughts; I certainly would not make any serious decisions based upon this. It is just a 'first thing that pops into my head'.

And once again I hope I am not offending anyone, I am seriously curious if anyone has the same ideas as me.

[Jockstar]

I hate when people think of me as a prostitute.

[PhilHarries]

Like siamesekitty I didn't vote for the same reason. It depends on so many variables it is impossible to say what I'd think, if anything at all, except on a case by case basis.

btw the OP refers to "hanging out together" and leaves us with the impression that this occurs quite often if not regularly. In this case it would not be unreasonable for folks to think you were in some kind of relationship. Whether they think this is a "paid for" relationship or not is anybodies guess and depends more on their views and experiences than your appearances (assuming you are not outrageous in your conduct or dress).

Loke Maigo6 I pass many hundreds of complete strangers every day and don't even register their existance unless, for one reason or another, they stand out from the crowd.

[micksterbs]

It could be that I'm reading your OP incorrectly, submaniac, but you seem to be uncomfortable with the thought of others possibly viewing you and your friend as "a couple". Ok, fair enough. But you conclude by saying that if you see a Thai and Farang in each other's company, you assume that they are together. Odd.

Personally, I can't say that thought has ever entered my head when I'm with Thai men, of whatever age. But then maybe I'm being naive. Or unobservant of those around me.

You know you are absolutely correct. But I don't think it is inconsistent. Thinking about it, it could just be that if it was me looking in on me and my friend, well that is what I would think if I saw us there. And my thoughts are I think I would be more uncomfortable with the idea of people thinking I am 'paid' to be a boyfriend. ANd I will tell you another truth, that whenever I see a young Thai with an older farang, I seriously do wonder sometimes if they are paid to be there. I just see it so many times.

And my thoughts are just initial thoughts; I certainly would not make any serious decisions based upon this. It is just a 'first thing that pops into my head'.

And once again I hope I am not offending anyone, I am seriously curious if anyone has the same ideas as me.

Sub, I hate to say it, old bean, but I agree with Goldfish; you think too much!

Just relax a bit. You're ascribing your thoughts, perceptions, prejudices even, to all those around you. It's a little bit close to paranoia, don't you think? Like Graucho Marx said, "You'd be paranoid, too, if everyone was out to get you!"

[nohave]

It depends how dark you are and what dress you wear. if you're really really dark and wearing cheap clothing and dressed like a slut then yes, I would think that you are a hooker. But who cares..... why worry what others (strangers) think.

[sweetchariot]

Firstly, not all Thai's involved with farangs a being paid to do so.

But as to your original question I would say yes. I go out occasionally with my Thai g/f's brother, who is the same age as me (mid 30's). I always feel uncomfortable as we get so many sideways looks form both Thai and farang, as well as the occassional comment.

I have an older friend who has a stepson who is 18, even to go to the mall is a nightmare for him as everyone (including me if I didn't know him), assumes he is a rentboy.

I got out of my car last night in a parking lot, and a (overtly) gay Thai man who I know very well was stood there, wai'd to me and said sawasdee krap. I replied (without the wai), and the parking attendant started joking with my GIRLFRIEND that I like gay men. <deleted>?

Yes you will get alot of people thinking you are a couple, but I would have thought your farang friend would be more uncomfortable with this than you. Have you spoken to him about it?

[Prakanong]

I too can be really self concious about these things - I used to be worse but try not to let in worry me now

When I am with the girls from our Bangkok office I get the feeling that people do not think we are "together". Its not a matter of dress etc though as we do go out socially and I can be a scruff in crocs, t-shirt and shorts and they are in flip flops and shorts and t-shirt.

I have to admit I do not like it when any of them see me with a Thai girl and was horrified 2 weeks ago when one of them saw me in the Paragon on a Sunday with one.

I never introduced my ex to the Thai staff but all the others met her (I cover Asia Pac plus Aussie).

When I am out with other Thai friends who I have known for a while I never get the feeling they think we are together either.

When I am with someone I am having biblical knowledge of people seem to know or I feel it.

Maybe its just me having these feelings about what others think and maybe you do to.

Older female westeners look funny at me quite often though no matter who I am with - even with girls from our office in business clothes - the girls do not seem to notice or if they do its not mentioned.

[Prakanong]

It depends how dark you are and what dress you wear. if you're really really dark and wearing cheap clothing and dressed like a slut then yes, I would think that you are a hooker. But who cares..... why worry what others (strangers) think.

LOL - you really are sending a mixed message about yourself with that post.

New to Thailand and Asia?

Experience of Thailand limited to Pattaya or the bar scene?

Any friends outside that scene?

[rixalex]

Personally, I wouldn't waste a thought on two total strangers.

I've heard this claim from a lot of people on this forum, who would have you believe they are living in some sort of a saintly bubble, and that they are above making any assumptions or judgements on those around us. Being curious (some might call it being nosey) about other people's lives is in my view a natural and instinctive characteristic that makes us human. Also, reaching certain conclusions based on what you see but without having any proof, is pefectly normal and completely harmless unless you start acting negatively on those thoughts.

To the question in hand, absolutely yes, if i see a Thai man and a Western man together, i would assume that they were lovers, unless there was obvious evidence to the contrary. For example, if i saw these two men dressed in suits, i would think they were purely businessmen. On the other hand, if i saw these two men casually dressed and bowling together, i would definetely be thinking that their relationship was one of more than friendship, although that doesn't mean to say i would assume the Thai to be a prostitute. But gay, certainly yes. Maybe this has something to do with my own experience of finding it hard to forge friendships with Thai guys, so i assume the same to be true for other Western guys.

Making assumptions might not be politically correct, but just like farting, we all do it, just some don't admit to it.

[LinkPopularity]

relax, to answer you question; NO, I don't think like that immediately

unless it's obvious, but well ... then it's obvious

are you terrible gay; as in; acting like a women, giggling, touching, flirting etc? no? well then why should I have such a thoughts of you ...

I do understand that it's important to you what people think in your soi, but here's how I deal with it; I only care what my friends think about me, as they know me for who I am; I just don't care what strangers think about me, my feelings etc are not depending on what stupid people think of me, not even a little bit ... stupid as in; if they come to the wrong conclusion; then they're stupid, that's their problem not mine ... I couldn't care less ...

[nohave]

OK I will have to explain this one. I am Thai (in my 30's, could pass for my 20's--of course I could be deluding myself on the appearance thing) and there's a farang who lives in my neighborhood, who I chat with, eat with, and stop on the stret to talk to on occasion. He's in his 50's, totally pleasant and great guy to talk to (especially since it's nice to be able to talk in English). We're both completely straight, and when we do hang out it's like two normal guy...well just hanging out. Anyways, when we do take a moment to hang out, I get the impression that others around us think that there is...ummm...that there's something else going on there. Either that I am somehow his 'boyfriend' or 'paid' to be his boyfriend. And I get this impression from seeing others around us sneaking looks our way when they think I am not noticing.

So I guess the first question I am wondering is, if you saw a young Thai male with an older farang (sitting or standing together, but not necessarily hearing what they are saying), would you think that they are 'boyfriends'? Or one is a...ummm...'paid' boyfriend? Not talking about in depth analysis, just wondering what the 'first thought that popped into your head' would be. (And keep in mind I find nothing wrong with being gay...though potentially being thought of as a prostitute is a bit disconcerting).

Now thinking about this has lead me further down the road to thinking about Thai/farang interractions in general. And when I say that, it starts me thinking that when I see a farang and a Thai together, there are instances when I probably do think there is some romantic relationship.

For example, if you see an older man and a younger woman, and both are either farang or both Thai, you may not necessarily think that they are romantically involved. Could be father and daughter, boss and employee, friends, etc. However, (at least in the case of the farang being older) if it was an older farang guy and a young Thai woman, I would think that there is a romantic relationship of some sort there. And I will not keep it restricted to age difference either. If I see a young guy in his 20's (the backpacker type) with a Thai girl of the same age, I too would think that they are 'together' too.

Now it isn't just because they are male and female either. In Western countries, you would not automatically think that a farang man, and a farang woman, by virtue of being in each other's physical presence are necessarily a couple. Same in Thailand, for a Thai man and a Thai woman. They may be together, maybe not. But when it's a mixed couple, is it just me or do you think they are indeed a 'couple'.

And I will throw out one more example before I finish this up. In the West, if you saw two men together, talking, eating, sitting, whatever, you wouldn't think much of it. In Thailand, two Thai men together...nothing to think about either. But when I see a Thai guy and a Farang guy (same age) I generally think that they are boyfriends.

So anyways, am I the only one who thinks this/am completely whacko in my beliefs, or does anyone generally think the same as me? Just curious. Don't mean to offend anyone, or get into a deep philosophical debate here.

Humans are curious so they look. It's the nature of the beast. Especially Thais they're just curious. Don't worry about what poeple think. Be yourself and you'll be just fine.

[kat]

For example, if you see an older man and a younger woman, and both are either farang or both Thai, you may not necessarily think that they are romantically involved. Could be father and daughter, boss and employee, friends, etc. However, (at least in the case of the farang being older) if it was an older farang guy and a young Thai woman, I would think that there is a romantic relationship of some sort there. And I will not keep it restricted to age difference either. If I see a young guy in his 20's (the backpacker type) with a Thai girl of the same age, I too would think that they are 'together' too.

Now it isn't just because they are male and female either. In Western countries, you would not automatically think that a farang man, and a farang woman, by virtue of being in each other's physical presence are necessarily a couple. Same in Thailand, for a Thai man and a Thai woman. They may be together, maybe not. But when it's a mixed couple, is it just me or do you think they are indeed a 'couple'.

And I will throw out one more example before I finish this up. In the West, if you saw two men together, talking, eating, sitting, whatever, you wouldn't think much of it. In Thailand, two Thai men together...nothing to think about either. But when I see a Thai guy and a Farang guy (same age) I generally think that they are boyfriends.

So anyways, am I the only one who thinks this/am completely whacko in my beliefs, or does anyone generally think the same as me? Just curious. Don't mean to offend anyone, or get into a deep philosophical debate here.

I think you are just reacting naturally and logically to a very common and widespread pattern around you. It is rational. However, after the first glance, there will be further signals that will also help you to file away the scenario you see into a similiar or differing pattern. The fact that you speak excellent English, your mannerisms, the quality and tone of your interaction, your dress, and even your response to the environment around you reveals so much subtle information.

If I remember correctly, you also seem to be "bi-cultural" from the States, and I'm sure part of your Western mannerisms will also show through to place you in a completely different pattern altogether. Unfortunately, many people only look at one facet - race or ethnicity - and can distinguish nothing else.

[Thaddeus]

I hate when people think of me as a prostitute.

Must be the kilt.

Didn't vote, as Boo said, too many factors involved, but if there were no outward signs I would say no, I wouldn't think anything of it.

[nohave]

It depends how dark you are and what dress you wear. if you're really really dark and wearing cheap clothing and dressed like a slut then yes, I would think that you are a hooker. But who cares..... why worry what others (strangers) think.

LOL - you really are sending a mixed message about yourself with that post.

New to Thailand and Asia?

Experience of Thailand limited to Pattaya or the bar scene?

Any friends outside that scene?

Prakhanong,

The problem is, you don't understand. I REALLY DO NOT CARE WHAT PEOPLE (strangers) THINK ABOUT MY POSTS By the way, nice to meet you and no I am not new to Thailand. People look because they're curious that is all. Most Thais will think she's a hooker if she very dark. Most Thais will think she is romantically involved but WHO CARES what others think

[submaniac]

Firstly, not all Thai's involved with farangs a being paid to do so.

Yes you will get alot of people thinking you are a couple, but I would have thought your farang friend would be more uncomfortable with this than you. Have you spoken to him about it?

Yes sweetchariot, you are also correct that not all thai's are involved with Farang's for money or payment. And I apologize if that did not come out. But there is a large portion who are, and I was specifically referring to those where there is a massive age difference of two decades or more. I have a hard time believing that a 20 year old woman or man, wants to be with someone in their 60's for 'love'. Not just in Thailand, but also with Anna Nicole Smith. I do not like the idea of anyone getting bought and sold for someone else's pleasure, and I in particularly do not like the idea of me being bought and sold for someone's pleasure.

I've never spoken to him about it. I think he gets the same idea, but it's just a weird subject that I don't think we want to talk about it. I also think that he is probably accustomed to the weird looks just because he is a farang, so he may have built up an immunity at this point. And I would also add, no I would not stop talking to him, or any other friend, on something so stupid. He's a good guy, and it's nice to have someone so local that you can talk to, and I'm not burning off a friend just because I get embarrased over something stupid.

I also wanted to add that the weird looks which made me want to post something about it. Because when you do notice peole looking at you, it does make you uncomfortable to draw unwanted attention. And Thailand is different than the West, so for those who don't notice this stuff, I think that that is the result of growing up in the West. But Thai culture, they do keep on eye on everyone, and everything.

Edited February 15, 2008 by submaniac

[micksterbs]

Personally, I wouldn't waste a thought on two total strangers.

I've heard this claim from a lot of people on this forum, who would have you believe they are living in some sort of a saintly bubble, and that they are above making any assumptions or judgements on those around us. Being curious (some might call it being nosey) about other people's lives is in my view a natural and instinctive characteristic that makes us human. Also, reaching certain conclusions based on what you see but without having any proof, is pefectly normal and completely harmless unless you start acting negatively on those thoughts.

To the question in hand, absolutely yes, if i see a Thai man and a Western man together, i would assume that they were lovers, unless there was obvious evidence to the contrary. For example, if i saw these two men dressed in suits, i would think they were purely businessmen. On the other hand, if i saw these two men casually dressed and bowling together, i would definetely be thinking that their relationship was one of more than friendship, although that doesn't mean to say i would assume the Thai to be a prostitute. But gay, certainly yes. Maybe this has something to do with my own experience of finding it hard to forge friendships with Thai guys, so i assume the same to be true for other Western guys.

Making assumptions might not be politically correct, but just like farting, we all do it, just some don't admit to it.

Why would you assume that a Thai man and a Western man, simply by being in each other's company would be lovers? So if these two lovers are on their way home from work and in their suits, they're not lovers. But a bit later in the evening they are? Maybe I've had a sheltered upbringing but I would only make that assumption if they were exhibiting signs of actually being a couple through body language, no matter what clothes they were wearing. I mean, sometimes I see some of my Thai wife's male colleagues after work and they're not gay and I'm not either. Not that I wouldn't be in the company of one that was, but I think you know what I'm getting at.

Perhaps your assumption that any man who would wish to be in your company was "gay, certainly" has something to do with your difficulty in forging friendships with Thai men. Just a thought...

[Jingthing]

I would size you up and make snap judgements based on appearance and behavior. Neither of your voting choices made sense to me. Just seeing a mixed nationality couple is but one clue. For example, if you were both in office clothes, I would think you are work mates, and of course the age gap is another factor.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Jingthing

[PadThaiGuy]

When I see a young SE Asian guy and an older Farang guy, I always think... gay.

Most likely, the boy is a male prostitute.

[Neeranam]

When I see a young SE Asian guy and an older Farang guy, I always think... gay.

Most likely, the boy is a male prostitute.

In Pattaya, I'd say definately.

[samtam]

I think submaniac you've raised a very interesting point about farang/Asian friends/couples. I have been with my b/f for 23 years. He's Japanese, very straight acting, well-educated, well-groomed, well-dressed, financially secure, (like me!) etc. He constantly gets irritated because he thinks that when we are out together respect is paid to me primarily and then to him, as if he were some sort of rent boy, thus quantifying what I think you are saying in some respects. I think there's a lot of farangs who are considered the provider whether it's true or not, and it's the assumption generally made by the people who might benefit financially in the way they show their "respect". Unfortunately it's a fact of life here, and in other countries where there is such a difference in economic circumstances, and rent is not an uncommon way of life.

[khunlungphudhu]

This had long been a concern of mine, being an elderly overweight foreign gentleman(?) accompanied frequently by one or more very attractive nieces, all daughters of Thailand.

When asked about this problem of what other people thought about them when with me, their reply was that they did not bother about it, bad thoughts can only hurt the thinker.

[sbk]

Well, I am with Boo, I look at more factors than just two men (or whatever the combination may be) together. Interestingly, I see you stated in your OP that people look at you. Thai people? or Farang? If Thai, they are probably wondering where you are really from as generally it is possible to tell Western raised Thai people--different mannerisms etc. And as you said, people are nosy, so they could just be wondering what you have to talk about with the farang.

[Jingthing]

This had long been a concern of mine, being an elderly overweight foreign gentleman(?) accompanied frequently by one or more very attractive nieces, all daughters of Thailand.

When asked about this problem of what other people thought about them when with me, their reply was that they did not bother about it, bad thoughts can only hurt the thinker.

You bring up a darker aspect of this.

In Pattaya, there are so many farang/Thai families with Thai children. I feel bad for the farang daddies taking out their Thai children and having people think dirty things about them. They sometimes must feel that they have to limit their physical affection to their children to avoid someone calling the pedo police.