Dual Citizenship - Thai / American (and A Lot More..)

[3183h]

I read all of the posts and could not locate the answers that I am looking for. So, need to ask the experts on the board here. I do apologize if the questions are redundant. There were some similarities to the situations. However, I am not quite clear.

I am a naturalized American citizen. I was born in Thailand. Currently, it turns out to be that I have both Thai and US passports, which are still valid and not expired. (I lost my naturalization certificate and did not reapply for one because I thought that US passport is a sufficient evident to demonstrate my citizenship.)

I am planning to get married with my Thai wife in the States. Unfortunately, she failed to obtain the tourist visa at the interview with the American Consulate. To make the story short, she is now 2-month pregnant. I will become a good father of my child in September. The child will be born in Thailand at a Thai hospital. (During this time, I am traveling back and forth between Thailand and the US.)

Since I cannot get married over here, I decide to do it in Thailand in this coming May, 2008. It will be two trips. One for my marriage and another one to watch the birth of my child in September.

Questions that I have:

Part 1 - for myself:

1. Many people on this board stated that dual citizenship are OK, just like don't ask, don't tell. Do you mean the person like myself, can enter Thailand using my Thai passport and come back to the States using the US passport? (My Thai birthname is different from my US name because it is easier to pronounce. I am uncertain whether it will constitute the problems.)

2. I saw the immigration officers at the airport taking pictures of everyone who would enter and leave Thailand. If I do not have the entry record upon my arrival, how can they allow me to leave without paying huge fines?

3. Do I need to show both passports during the time of my departure to the US? (I know that there is no check point to leave the US. It has been done by the airlines personnel.)

Part 2 - for my child and my future wife:

1. Will there be any problems that my child should be able to obtain the US passport? Based on the information received on the board, it looks like my child should be able to do it plus getting the Social Security Number as well. Since I am a US citizen, I should be able to exercise that right. (I plan to change my tax information here, in order to support my family members.)

2. Based on the information gathered, the child who is born to the Thai mother, should be able to obtain the Thai citizenship as well. Am I correct on this one?

3. My wife, who is the government official, plans to raise the child in Thailand and does not want to come to live in the States. For me, I plan to get the job in Thailand. So, I can be with my family. During this "seaching for employment" gap, which I still do not know how long it will be, how can my wife travel and accompany my child to come to visit me in the States? Will there be any red flags to obtain the visa since she did not pass the interview on the tourist visa? -> Another sub question is that -> if she needs to apply the visa to come to visit me, what types of visa should be? Do I need to go back to Thailand for another interview for her to come and visit me here?

4. If my child still helds the US passport and lives with my wife in Thailand, will we still pay some fees at the immigration, since my child might be considered "foreigner"?

5. I plan to adjust the tax form with the IRS after getting married in order to support my wife and my child. How can my Thai wife apply for the ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number) when she is living in Thailand and cannot come over here to the States?

The darn things in life start getting complicated. I have not imagined that life will be wonderful and misarable at the same time. I do appreciate your response. Thank you.

[submaniac]

1. Many people on this board stated that dual citizenship are OK, just like don't ask, don't tell. Do you mean the person like myself, can enter Thailand using my Thai passport and come back to the States using the US passport? (My Thai birthname is different from my US name because it is easier to pronounce. I am uncertain whether it will constitute the problems.)

Yes, not a problem. Technically you are not supposed to but it is 'do not ask' 'do not tell'. The Thai immigration official at the airport probably has a good guess that you have a U.S. or other passport if you do not speak Thai or speak with an accent. They DO NOT CARE. They will not ask you about any other passports.

2. I saw the immigration officers at the airport taking pictures of everyone who would enter and leave Thailand. If I do not have the entry record upon my arrival, how can they allow me to leave without paying huge fines?

This is also not a problem. If you leave on a Thai passport, why would you need to have a record of entry? After all you are a Thai citizen. You could have been living in your homeland (Thailand) for 20 years and have never left. Not an issue, do not worry about it.

3. Do I need to show both passports during the time of my departure to the US? (I know that there is no check point to leave the US. It has been done by the airlines personnel.)

No. Do not show your U.S. passport to immigration. Keep it out of sight. The airline personnel will ask for your U.S. passport as you will not be able to enter the United States without a passport or visa, and they will not let you on the plane if you can not depart. But airline personnel are not government officials so they do not care. And enough people have done it that it is not an issue for them anyways.

1. Will there be any problems that my child should be able to obtain the US passport? Based on the information received on the board, it looks like my child should be able to do it plus getting the Social Security Number as well. Since I am a US citizen, I should be able to exercise that right. (I plan to change my tax information here, in order to support my family members.)

Call or go to the U.S. embassy. They know the requirements better than anyone else here and can tell you what you need. However, I do not think you will have any problems. If you are a citizen, and have a child, your child is a citizen by birth.

2. Based on the information gathered, the child who is born to the Thai mother, should be able to obtain the Thai citizenship as well. Am I correct on this one?

Yes and maybe. Maybe because, from what I have read (though it may have changed), Thai citizenship is only given to children whose FATHER is a Thai citizen/national. This specifically to address Thai/Farang children. Yes, because in reality the safeguards to enforce this aren't enforced very well, and for sure YES because you are a Thai national, and because the mother is a government official.

3. My wife, who is the government official, plans to raise the child in Thailand and does not want to come to live in the States. For me, I plan to get the job in Thailand. So, I can be with my family. During this "seaching for employment" gap, which I still do not know how long it will be, how can my wife travel and accompany my child to come to visit me in the States? Will there be any red flags to obtain the visa since she did not pass the interview on the tourist visa? -> Another sub question is that -> if she needs to apply the visa to come to visit me, what types of visa should be? Do I need to go back to Thailand for another interview for her to come and visit me here?

Your child can come to the states, as a U.S. citizen. Your wife needs a spousal visa. Contact the U.S. embassy. YOU need to produce to them documentation on income to show you can support a wife before they will issue it. And, you are only entitled to TWO spousal or fiancee visas in your life (you can only sponsor two women) under the VAWA act.

In addition for spousal visa, she needs to go to the U.S. embassy (and you with her) to apply. The interview occurs at the U.S. embassy.

The 'tourist' visa denial has nothing to do with the 'spousal visa'. For a Tourist visa, and to prevent people from coming to the states and getting married, you have to show sufficient ties and money assets in THailand to be given one. Not many people in Thailand have enough money to qualify.

4. If my child still helds the US passport and lives with my wife in Thailand, will we still pay some fees at the immigration, since my child might be considered "foreigner"?

No. First get your child Thai citizenship. Even if you cannot obtain (which is unlikely) children with a Thai mother are in a special category altogther under Thai law, and no they are not considered foreigners even though they are not Thai nationals.

5. I plan to adjust the tax form with the IRS after getting married in order to support my wife and my child. How can my Thai wife apply for the ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number) when she is living in Thailand and cannot come over here to the States?

You can apply at the embassy. If you do the spousal visa, they can take care of the application with the process.

[TerryLH]

"1. ... (My Thai birthname is different from my US name because it is easier to pronounce. I am uncertain whether it will constitute the problems.)"

It could. Make sure your name on the childs birth certificate matches your USA passport. That should take care of USA citizenship. The mothers name and nationality will take care of the Thai citizenship.

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"Based on the information gathered, the child who is born to the Thai mother, should be able to obtain the Thai citizenship as well. Am I correct on this one?"

Yes, that is correct.

Please disregard the previous posters answer. Bad info.

Answer by submaniac:

b]Thai citizenship is only given to children whose FATHER is a Thai citizen/national.[/b]

That changed about 16 years ago.

"...and for sure YES because you are a Thai national, and because the mother is a government official.

The mothers job has nothing to do with nationality.

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"For me, I plan to get the job in Thailand. So, I can be with my family. During this "seaching for employment" gap, which I still do not know how long it will be, how can my wife travel and accompany my child to come to visit me in the States?"

If she doesn't plan on living there a tourist visa would probably be much easier to get. Ask the embassy.

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Q

If my child still helds the US passport and lives with my wife in Thailand, will we still pay some fees at the immigration, since my child might be considered "foreigner"?

A

No. First get your child Thai citizenship. Even if you cannot obtain (which is unlikely) children with a Thai mother are in a special category altogther under Thai law, and no they are not considered foreigners even though they are not Thai nationals.

Really? What category is that?

If they're not Thai citizens, what are they?

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[lopburi3]

1. Although both countries have no laws allowing dual nationality - they do not have laws preventing it. So it is accepted. Use passport of country involved. You, by law, must use US passport for entry into US. Thailand will accept either. Name change could be an issue with new computer manifests but a show of other passport should resolve it.

2. You enter/leave using same passport (always). So you obtain/fill out TM.6 as other pax on aircraft (most Thai would have from departure as they get then and return the second page on return).

3. Yes. You will show both to airline to prove you do not need a visa. Immigration might ask to see but probably will not.

2.1. Should not be a problem but check on procedures to follow with Embassy. Not sure on SS number

2.2. Any child born of a Thai citizen is eligible to be a Thai citizen. Child will be born Thai.

2.3. She would have to obtain a tourist visa to do so. This will involve the same convincing that she intends to return to Thailand so job seems to be her only option. While you are working in US this may be a problem as it will appear she is trying to shortcut the immigrant visa process. She is going to have to provide better assurance than her previous attempt it would seem. Full details or your plans for the future is probably the best proof you can offer. Your presence might be helpful.

2.4 Your child is born Thai. There are no immigration issues in Thailand.

2.5 Next year you include your tax return in the envelope you mail to obtain the ITIN application. They forward the tax return with the ITIN number on it. This is the only way to obtain ITIN now. So download the form and fill that out/have her sign it. Believe you will also have to make a declaration of combined income if you intend to file as married filing jointly so you want to check that out as with her having income you probably do not want to take that route.

[submaniac]

"Based on the information gathered, the child who is born to the Thai mother, should be able to obtain the Thai citizenship as well. Am I correct on this one?"

Yes, that is correct.

Please disregard the previous posters answer. Bad info.

Answer by submaniac:

b]Thai citizenship is only given to children whose FATHER is a Thai citizen/national.[/b]

That changed about 16 years ago.

Really? What category is that?

If they're not Thai citizens, what are they?

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Thank you for correcting my bad answer. I really do not want to give incorrect information. As an explanation, I got my "stuff" done about 18 years ago, and that was what I was informed at the time as they only wanted my father's documentation.

As for the special category, as I understood it, mixed children w/farang father's were not given Thai passports. They could stay in the country, but once they left, they could no longer return. Sounds pleasant, eh?

But anyways thank you for the help (and for not flaming an incorrect answer.

[Loom]

The US embassy should help you submit the SSN application as part of the process of applying for passport and notification of birth abroad.

When the ITIN application is made, you should be asked to make an election to file jointly or separately. As I understand it, the IRS doesn't like people flipping back and forth. It might help if you consulted an accountant on this since the tax rates are higher for married and filing separately. But I would think your wife would be able to claim a foreign tax credit if u file jointly.

[AnikaSiam]

Please HELP!

My little sister and brother are US citizens, and are currently living in Thailand with my parents. They have to renew their visa every 3 months, which is bit of a hassle! I would like to know, is there a way around this? can they apply for dual citizenship, what is needed and where would we need to go for this. Both our parents are Thai citizens who hold Thai Passports. Any help would be great!

thank u!

COnfused!

[Mario2008]

if the parents are Thai, so are the children. They already have Thai citizenship, just have to proof it.

If they were born in Thailand there is no problem getting a Thai passport, they will just have to get a Thai ID-card and be registered on someones household registration.

If they were born in the US, they will first have to get a Thai birth certificate from the Thai embassy or general consulate in the US. With that they can apply for a Thai passport.

Note that if the get a Thai passport they first have to leave the country on their US passport and then re-enter on their Thai passport, before they no longer need a visa. As long as they stay on a foreign passport they need a visa and permission to stay.

Neither the US or Thailad have any problem with dual nationality.

[lopburi3]

Also if they are below age 15 there really is no need to keep visa up as there is no overstay fine involved.