Retirement 2nd Extension Pattaya/jomtien

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Two days ago I extended my stay based on retirement for the second time. Overall a straight forward and painless process, but with scope for future improvements. Sorry about the length of the post and any typos or mistakes, but I hope it will be of help to someone! Also sorry about the poor formatting, it was written on a Mac, and taken to a PC and pasted...

Some background and visa/extension history:

1996-1999: 3-year (!) Non-B and WP, obtained via BoI One-Stop Service Center (I kid you not, 3 hassle-free years!)

2000-2003: A period of flux, with a lot of travel, using mainly tourist visas, and some 3-month Non-Bs, all obtained in Europe, at embassy and consulate (the latter for Non-Bs). No WP involved during this period since I was already retired, and I have never used the 30-day visa exempt route.

2004-2006: 3 million Baht investor extension (based on a Non-B visa). Expiry: 9 March 2007. Turned 50 years old on 3 March 2007 (in the nick of time, since investor option was by then no longer available, and I am not married).

2007-2008: First retirement extension obtained 7 March 2007 (left it so late due to birth date and the need to mature the 800K for 3 months, but managed just in time!) DON'T leave it so late; give yourself a nice buffer of 3-4 weeks if possible. Enjoy peace of mind, and time to obtain additional documents, etc. Even a trip back home is possible if required.

2008-2009: Wanted to extend a month early this year, but due to reading the calendar wrongly, I only got the fresh money in my Thai account on 3 December 2007 (should have been 3 November).

Went to Immigration anyway on Thursday 14 February at 1:30 pm. 4 people in front, was out on the street 25 minutes later, with a slip to pick up passport next day at 10 am.

Requirements: TM7, recent 4*6 picture, bank letter, copy of passbook (the officer was not even interested in the copies of the previous book that actually had the entry for the inward transfer of funds, coded FTT), copy of all pages of passport (I always include even the front page of passport and passbooks, and sign all pages), fee 1,900 Baht. No demand for credit or ATM card copies, no maps, no medical, nothing else.

Got passport the next day around 11 am, went outside to copy the new extension, picked a queue number and waited (the rest of passport was copied and signed the day before, and TM8 filled in with 4*6 picture attached). This time it took 30 minutes, also with 4 people in front of me. Fee: 3,800 Baht (for multiple entry, 1,000 for single).

The following should be obvious, but make sure you have ALL required documents and copies (signed), with originals available, all presented in a nice bundle (use a clip, don't staple), preferably not out of a plastic bag, but a small neat document folder looks professional. Also dress properly with a real shirt, long pants and proper shoes. Be polite and soft-spoken, let the officer ASK you, don't TELL him or her! Observe these simple rules, and you will be treated with respect, and out of there in no-time.

Some reflections and possible future improvements:

*) Why not combine the processes, so if you want re-entry permit as well, just tick a box on the TM7. All info and picture is already there... Just add the appropriate fee.

*) OR: why do we need a re-entry permit AT ALL, when we are approved to stay for a full year? So what if I go out of the country for a holiday, my year extension should be enough to allow entry back in? Or am I missing something, since I do not believe this is only done to collect higher fees...?!?

*) Why do we have to come back the next day to get the passport, when all relevant information is already entered in the passport, and on a special form that the officer fills in for you? Is this waiting time used for a background check of some sort, or for entry of the data in the computer system? Anyone?

*) Finally, why do we have to do the 90-day address reporting, when we have the same address? Since it can be done by mail, it can be done by someone else on your behalf, since you could have prepared the forms in advance for them to send in. So it is NOT to see you in person... Either let us report by e-mail every 90 days, or better still: Report within say 48 hours after changing address only.

I know for some groups the situation is getting worse, but for many it is slowly and surely becoming easier, and I have confidence that it will continue to improve with time (like the OIS initiative reported on the forum today...)

Good luck to you all!

[Jingthing]

You know I will ask this. Are you saying you did NOT have the money seasoned for 3 months, and got the extension anyway? Because that is what I was told clearly at Jomiten, for the FIRST extension using the 800K in the bank (as opposed to pension or a combo of pension and bank account) the three month rule is in effect only the FIRST time, and is not in effect for subsequent extensions. Please clarify. Thanks for the detailed report.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

That is correct; money in 3 December, got extension 14 February. So on the date of application for extension, the money was short of 3 months by about 2.5 weeks.

However, on the date of expiry of old extension, 9 March, the money will have been in for 3 months and one week.

I cannot draw any firm conclusions, but I believe it is usually the date of application for renewal that the money needs to be matured for 3 months. So this is circumstansial "evidence" that the 3-month rule applies only first time. I guess it also helps to show normal withdrawal activity throughout the year, and also have a bit more than the 800K (I had around 1.2 mill.) on renewal date (14/2).

[Jingthing]

Yes, the date would be the application date. Very good evidence, thanks!

When I asked, the officer told me I don't even LOOK at the date, for subsequent extensions, and that the money could be transfered in the day before if you want.

Edited February 16, 2008 by Jingthing

[Maestro]

You know I will ask this. Are you saying you did NOT have the money seasoned for 3 months, and got the extension anyway? Because that is what I was told clearly at Jomiten, for the FIRST extension using the 800K in the bank ...

This was his second extension for retirement. The first was in 2007.

--

Maestro

[Jingthing]

You know I will ask this. Are you saying you did NOT have the money seasoned for 3 months, and got the extension anyway? Because that is what I was told clearly at Jomiten, for the FIRST extension using the 800K in the bank ...

This was his second extension for retirement. The first was in 2007.

--

Maestro

Yes, exactly. And at Jomtien, there is evidence that for extensions AFTER the first one, the three month money seasoning rule does not apply (when using the 800K in the bank). If you hadn't cut off my quote, it would have made sense. The 3 month rule was not enforced on the OP, possibly because it was a subsequent extension. Sadly, this detail still remains a grey area.

Edited February 16, 2008 by Jingthing

[Maestro]

...

2004-2006: 3 million Baht investor extension (based on a Non-B visa). Expiry: 9 March 2007. Turned 50 years old on 3 March 2007 (in the nick of time, since investor option was by then no longer available, and I am not married).

2007-2008: First retirement extension obtained 7 March 2007...

This information comes too late for you and for anybody else who changed from investment extension to another type of extension, but you would have been grandfathered for your investment extension under paragraph 7.4 of the Royal Thai Police Order No. 606/2549

Nevertheless, the retirement extension with 800k in the bank is also a good choice, requires minimal documentation.

--

Maestro

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Maestro,

I did hear something about grandfathering at the time, but it was not such a sure card. And since I just turned 50, retirement seemed an easier, faster and cheaper way to do it. But if I hadn't turned 50, I would have had no other option but to go for it and hope the best.

Can any of you gurus please comment to my reflections at the end of my OP? Like why we have to pick the passport up next day, why re-entry permit is not included in the extension process, and why indeed we need re-entry permits at all?

There questions are more for my enlightenment than of any real practical importance, but interesting still.

[naka]

and why indeed we need re-entry permits at all?

Probably because they get 3,800 Baht for just a few minutes work.

Naka.

[Lite Beer]

Picking up the passport the next day must be a Jontiem thing as I have never had to do this.

[Krub]

Picking up the passport the next day must be a Jontiem thing as I have never had to do this.

Same for me always gotit done there and then no waiting time to speak of and always get a multire-entry at the same time (I always extend in countryside locations....Nan, KapCheong, Phusing....)

A re-entry permit is needed to keep your extension 'alive'

From my experience in Asia, it is a pretty standard thing to ask for a re-entry permit. Iam doing the same in Japan although there they allow you up to 3 years validity of multi-re-enrty permit as long as your permit of stay is valid.

[LivinLOS]

...

2004-2006: 3 million Baht investor extension (based on a Non-B visa). Expiry: 9 March 2007. Turned 50 years old on 3 March 2007 (in the nick of time, since investor option was by then no longer available, and I am not married).

2007-2008: First retirement extension obtained 7 March 2007...

This information comes too late for you and for anybody else who changed from investment extension to another type of extension, but you would have been grandfathered for your investment extension under paragraph 7.4 of the Royal Thai Police Order No. 606/2549

Nevertheless, the retirement extension with 800k in the bank is also a good choice, requires minimal documentation.

--

Maestro

That was going to be my first question..

Tho I have read that people trying to grandfather have had major run arounds.. Proving that price marked for tax office lower than real price paid at 3m etc.. Personally I wish I had done the 3m investor visa with bonds or deposit account in retrospect.

[LivinLOS]

*) OR: why do we need a re-entry permit AT ALL, when we are approved to stay for a full year? So what if I go out of the country for a holiday, my year extension should be enough to allow entry back in? Or am I missing something, since I do not believe this is only done to collect higher fees...?!?

Here is one of the confusions over Thai 'visas'...

You need a valid visa to enter Thailand.. You then are given a duration of stay.

Visa's are issued outside of Thailand and cannot be issued from immigration locally (only changed classes etc).. They only have the power to change your duration of stay (extension) not issue you a new 'visa'.

Hence to return into thailand you must get a single or multiple re-entry permit to allow that duration of stay to remain current and not expire when you leave.

Duration of stay (and thier extensions) are a different beastie to visa's.

[Maestro]

I was wondering about that, LivinLOS, and your post explains it. Just like a visa tells the airline that you will be allowed entry into Thailand, so does the re-entry permit and therefore the airline can let you board without the risk that you might be denied entry and the airline would get fined and would have to transport you back at their expense.

The cost of the re-entry permit can be debated, of course. For immigration, the amount of work is the same whether the permit is for a single entry or multiple entries. The same can be said, incidentally, for visas, issued by consulates.

--

Maestro

[thaikahuna]

Two days ago I extended my stay based on retirement for the second time. Overall a straight forward and painless process, but with scope for future improvements. Sorry about the length of the post and any typos or mistakes, but I hope it will be of help to someone! Also sorry about the poor formatting, it was written on a Mac, and taken to a PC and pasted...

Some background and visa/extension history:

1996-1999: 3-year (!) Non-B and WP, obtained via BoI One-Stop Service Center (I kid you not, 3 hassle-free years!)

2000-2003: A period of flux, with a lot of travel, using mainly tourist visas, and some 3-month Non-Bs, all obtained in Europe, at embassy and consulate (the latter for Non-Bs). No WP involved during this period since I was already retired, and I have never used the 30-day visa exempt route.

2004-2006: 3 million Baht investor extension (based on a Non-B visa). Expiry: 9 March 2007. Turned 50 years old on 3 March 2007 (in the nick of time, since investor option was by then no longer available, and I am not married).

2007-2008: First retirement extension obtained 7 March 2007 (left it so late due to birth date and the need to mature the 800K for 3 months, but managed just in time!) DON'T leave it so late; give yourself a nice buffer of 3-4 weeks if possible. Enjoy peace of mind, and time to obtain additional documents, etc. Even a trip back home is possible if required.

2008-2009: Wanted to extend a month early this year, but due to reading the calendar wrongly, I only got the fresh money in my Thai account on 3 December 2007 (should have been 3 November).

Went to Immigration anyway on Thursday 14 February at 1:30 pm. 4 people in front, was out on the street 25 minutes later, with a slip to pick up passport next day at 10 am.

Requirements: TM7, recent 4*6 picture, bank letter, copy of passbook (the officer was not even interested in the copies of the previous book that actually had the entry for the inward transfer of funds, coded FTT), copy of all pages of passport (I always include even the front page of passport and passbooks, and sign all pages), fee 1,900 Baht. No demand for credit or ATM card copies, no maps, no medical, nothing else.

Got passport the next day around 11 am, went outside to copy the new extension, picked a queue number and waited (the rest of passport was copied and signed the day before, and TM8 filled in with 4*6 picture attached). This time it took 30 minutes, also with 4 people in front of me. Fee: 3,800 Baht (for multiple entry, 1,000 for single).

The following should be obvious, but make sure you have ALL required documents and copies (signed), with originals available, all presented in a nice bundle (use a clip, don't staple), preferably not out of a plastic bag, but a small neat document folder looks professional. Also dress properly with a real shirt, long pants and proper shoes. Be polite and soft-spoken, let the officer ASK you, don't TELL him or her! Observe these simple rules, and you will be treated with respect, and out of there in no-time.

Some reflections and possible future improvements:

*) Why not combine the processes, so if you want re-entry permit as well, just tick a box on the TM7. All info and picture is already there... Just add the appropriate fee.

*) OR: why do we need a re-entry permit AT ALL, when we are approved to stay for a full year? So what if I go out of the country for a holiday, my year extension should be enough to allow entry back in? Or am I missing something, since I do not believe this is only done to collect higher fees...?!?

*) Why do we have to come back the next day to get the passport, when all relevant information is already entered in the passport, and on a special form that the officer fills in for you? Is this waiting time used for a background check of some sort, or for entry of the data in the computer system? Anyone?

*) Finally, why do we have to do the 90-day address reporting, when we have the same address? Since it can be done by mail, it can be done by someone else on your behalf, since you could have prepared the forms in advance for them to send in. So it is NOT to see you in person... Either let us report by e-mail every 90 days, or better still: Report within say 48 hours after changing address only.

I know for some groups the situation is getting worse, but for many it is slowly and surely becoming easier, and I have confidence that it will continue to improve with time (like the OIS initiative reported on the forum today...)

Good luck to you all!

Let me answer some of this from what I have learned. IF you get there early in the AM you will go back the same day for your passport. If you tell the lady at the back desk you need a re-entry permit, she will send you there directly with no queueing up again. Keep in mind that TIT - This IS Thailand and the procedures in Pattaya are not the same as those used in BKK or Maptaput. In BKK I was in and out in 20 minutes with new visa and re-entry permit. As for the 90 reporting you can do it by mail if you wish and it helps the Thais keep track of the fine upstanding folks like us who obey the rules.

[akaika]

*) OR: why do we need a re-entry permit AT ALL, when we are approved to stay for a full year? So what if I go out of the country for a holiday, my year extension should be enough to allow entry back in? Or am I missing something, since I do not believe this is only done to collect higher fees...?!?

Here is one of the confusions over Thai 'visas'...

You need a valid visa to enter Thailand.. You then are given a duration of stay.

Visa's are issued outside of Thailand and cannot be issued from immigration locally (only changed classes etc).. They only have the power to change your duration of stay (extension) not issue you a new 'visa'.

Hence to return into thailand you must get a single or multiple re-entry permit to allow that duration of stay to remain current and not expire when you leave.

Duration of stay (and thier extensions) are a different beastie to visa's.

LivinLOS explained this well and the explanation is correct not only for Thai visas but all countries as well. Visas are granted based on international agreements between individual states or sometimes groups of states through the states' ministry of foreign affairs or department of state.

Terms of entry (reason for entry, re-entry, duration of stay etc..) are determined internally within the country by immigration, citizenship, and labour departments. Therefore, these are the the same departments that grant extensions and re-entry permits.

Technically, a visa is not an approval for entry but actually an approval to apply for entry. Entry approval is actually granted (based on valid travel documents and visa) by the appropriate officer (usually immigration but some countries combine customs with immigration) at the port of disembarkation (some may want to call it port of embarkation). It is still possible to be denied entry for various reasons at this point.

[Maestro]

…Technically, a visa is not an approval for entry but actually an approval to apply for entry.

Correct. I looked at the last visa I got, a tourist visa, and it says “Good for a sigle journey to Thailand”. The visa allowed me to travel to Thailand (good for the airline to know) and it told the immigration officer for how many days he can give me permission to stay after deciding whether to let me in or not after doing some checks (Passport valid? On blacklist?)

--

Maestro

[BigSnake]

Sure sound simple and easy enough, however as we all know the process vary from place to place, cheers to all who do their retirement visa in Pattaya/jomtien Maybe other immigration offices should take note. I for one wouldn't mine gone back the following day, sure as heck bet three months or more.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Thanks to all for helping to clarify the issues I raised. I know they are just small details in the big scheme of things, and I also know I am very fortunate to be in my position, to easily obtain extension of stay. So if you perceive me as nagging, you are probably right, and I shall repent.

But to you young and hansome fellas salivating to move here to "paradise" and perhaps teach English. Keep in mind that I am old and ugly, would you swap for an easy extension of stay? Thought not. So have fun while you wait your turn, travel and see other parts of the world, work and make loads of money, invest it OUTSIDE of Thailand. THEN come here to enjoy it later. I promise you, come here too early to stay, and you might end up being had for breakfast by Thailand...

Regards to all!

[JimGant]

Visa's are issued outside of Thailand and cannot be issued from immigration locally (only changed classes etc)..

Yes they can. A relatively recent change in the rules, but Immigration *can* issue you a Non Imm O visa if you otherwise qualify for an extension of stay. TM 87 is the form to go from a visa-exempt-entry to a Non Imm O. ("Changing of class," from tourist to Non Imm O, is form TM 86.)

You need a valid visa to enter Thailand.. You then are given a duration of stay.

Uh, 30-day visa exempt entry is, well, entering Thailand without a valid visa.....

Maybe there's something out of context I'm missing here..... All the above is common, overly hashed info on this forum....

[sexy man]

just one query, if i just show my deposit account which has over a million baht in it and has been there for a few years do i have to show money comming in, by this i mean i never use my deposit account and the only movement in it is when the interest is added,

[lopburi3]

It will likely work fine for a retirement extension of stay. It acts as proof you can support your stay with that money if required.

[warriors]

just one query, if i just show my deposit account which has over a million baht in it and has been there for a few years do i have to show money comming in, by this i mean i never use my deposit account and the only movement in it is when the interest is added,

It will likely work fine for a retirement extension of stay. It acts as proof you can support your stay with that money if required.

I WOULDN'T BANK ON IT. Last time I went for my extention retirement visa the letter from my bank had to say that the 800,000 had come in from over seas that year and had been in my bank for over 3 months.

Depends on the offficer of the day.

Edited March 4, 2008 by warriors