Tot Adsl Problem (again!)

[RiverKwaiGuy]

Having some problems with my connection. I can access "usual" sites - Yahoo, Google, BBC etc. etc

However my own server in UK I can't get into. No FTP, Webmail or any of my sites which cannot be displayed.

Anyone got an idea of any "Tweaks" I can do..??

Cheers,

[Guest Reimar]

Having some problems with my connection. I can access "usual" sites - Yahoo, Google, BBC etc. etc

However my own server in UK I can't get into. No FTP, Webmail or any of my sites which cannot be displayed.

Anyone got an idea of any "Tweaks" I can do..??

Cheers,

Have you try to use the IP number only for to connect? And could you ping the server?

May you download Sam Space from Download TV and check you Server status with this nifty utility!\

Cheers.

[kat1]

Having some problems with my connection. I can access "usual" sites - Yahoo, Google, BBC etc. etc

However my own server in UK I can't get into. No FTP, Webmail or any of my sites which cannot be displayed.

Anyone got an idea of any "Tweaks" I can do..??

Cheers,

Have you try to use the IP number only for to connect? And could you ping the server?

May you download Sam Space from Download TV and check you Server status with this nifty utility!\

Cheers.

Hi,

Try a proxy: www.freeproxies.org/

www.beatfiltering.com/

I'm having the same problems with my web-sites hosted in USA from my ToT ADSL connection for the last 48 hours.

I can use a proxy site OK and my host says my IP is not blocked.

Ping just times out.

ToT DNS lookup is OK.

I have accessed the host and my sites from the IPStar service at school.

I'm waiting for ToT to come back to me, but I'm sure they will say the host is too slow!

Are there any ToT users out there that can actually see my host: www.freehostia.com/ I have only been able to try from 2 lines here in Chiang Mai.

If a site it blocked by ToT, is there a notice screen, or do they let it just time out?

Thanks

[MikeWill]

...

May you download Sam Space from Download TV and check you Server status with this nifty utility!\

Cheers.

You probably meant Sam Spade (not Sam Space). I also found this page: http://samspade.org/d/faq/#traceroute-luser

And BTW, following on your introduction, I've found quite interesting articles on firewalls (mentioned in another thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=169510 ).

Re: host: www.freehostia.com/

I'm on TRUE in Bkk - can get to the above URL, no problems. But my connection is currently also very slow. A few days ago, it was much better.

[sniffdog]

TOT Cybergold, Bangkok OK!

[Guest Reimar]

...

May you download Sam Space from Download TV and check you Server status with this nifty utility!\

Cheers.

You probably meant Sam Spade (not Sam Space). I also found this page: http://samspade.org/d/faq/#traceroute-luser

And BTW, following on your introduction, I've found quite interesting articles on firewalls (mentioned in another thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=169510 ).

Re: host: www.freehostia.com/

I'm on TRUE in Bkk - can get to the above URL, no problems. But my connection is currently also very slow. A few days ago, it was much better.

Mistyped and not look after!

Sam Spade now is online only but the prog, which is at TV Download, is much better and you have a lot choices!

Cheers.

[kat1]

So ToT are looking into it after seeing that they can access in Bangkok, but not in Chiang Mai.

As part of their analysis they got me to do a tracert, which highlights the fact that there are many hops in Thailand before actually being passed out to the international network.

This lead me to find a web-site providing hop information from their location in Washington DC. A trace to ToT has no less than 12 hops within Thailand, all of which are unnamed, i.e host name unresolvable. Seems some serious screening going on here.......

[MikeWill]

Mistyped and not look after!

Sam Spade now is online only but the prog, which is at TV Download, is much better and you have a lot choices!

Cheers.

Please advise what is the program version?

The "check version" button inside the program does not produce results.

I've noticed that different websites have different versions, i.e. Sam Spade 1.14 Beta (Last Updated: March 3rd, 2006) at softpedia.com and Sam Spade 1.14 (Date: 2002-01-25) at majorgeeks.com, etc.

[worldfun]

TOT cybergold Nonthaburi can access the problematic site OK. Both with or without proxies.

Never so far come across sites I can't access. Fingers crossed

Anyone knows of TOT has any local proxy that may speed up international surfing???

[Prasert]

So ToT are looking into it after seeing that they can access in Bangkok, but not in Chiang Mai.

As part of their analysis they got me to do a tracert, which highlights the fact that there are many hops in Thailand before actually being passed out to the international network.

This lead me to find a web-site providing hop information from their location in Washington DC. A trace to ToT has no less than 12 hops within Thailand, all of which are unnamed, i.e host name unresolvable. Seems some serious screening going on here.......

Funny.

I called TOT over 2 weeks ago to ask why there are so many hops on their network before switching to CAT for the international network. Their network design causes several sites to be more than 30 hops away, which will cause problems. They also asked me to send a traceroute output to [email protected]

It is surely a design error on the TOT network, since a traceroute from the internet back to my adsl connection is very short:

Outgoing traceroute:

1 125.24.96.1.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net (125.24.96.1) 452 msec 452 msec 512 msec

2 203.113.92.233 536 msec 524 msec 488 msec

3 203.113.54.222 532 msec 484 msec 528 msec

4 203.113.54.226 508 msec 572 msec *

5 203.113.54.150 500 msec 520 msec 540 msec

6 203.113.54.154 440 msec 476 msec 504 msec

7 203.113.54.158 536 msec 468 msec 460 msec

8 203.113.24.141 512 msec 476 msec 512 msec

9 203.113.24.142 480 msec 524 msec 532 msec

10 203.113.13.126 536 msec 448 msec 412 msec

11 203.113.24.245 484 msec 484 msec 520 msec

12 61.19.10.13 504 msec 456 msec 400 msec

13 202.47.253.146 456 msec 508 msec 436 msec

Traceroute back:

6 customer-side-cat-telecom-3-id-pal9.pal.seabone.net (195.22.197.194) 243.769 ms 337.037 ms 276.137 ms

7 202.47.253.131 (202.47.253.131) 347.632 ms 259.837 ms 239.691 ms

8 61.19.10.14 (61.19.10.14) 271.005 ms 244.969 ms 175.470 ms

9 203.113.24.242 (203.113.24.242) 648.296 ms 442.944 ms 128.533 ms

10 203.113.13.125 (203.113.13.125) 291.250 ms 867.900 ms 532.947 ms

11 203.113.24.141 (203.113.24.141) 112.757 ms 296.085 ms 575.631 ms

12 125.24.96.177.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net (125.24.96.177) 846.285 ms 843.613 ms 1187.647 ms

Although asynchronous routing is quite normal on the internet backbones (that's all about peering contracts), it's not normal on an ISP network like TOT. The above traces also show that outgoing traffic is sent from router to router in a very unnecessary way. Only the path back seems to be acceptable.

TOT engineers called me back 3 times, asking more questions and finally they said they could not solve the problem. Which is a. unacceptable and b. demonstrates their lack of knowledge when it comes to networking. Said enough they also told me they had no budget to hire an engineer that could solve their problems.

The reason why you sometimes can and other times can't reach specific websites, is that routes on the internet can change (due to traffic congestion, route flaps, maintenance, all quite normal). With the extra hops that TOT causes, this can lead to routes taking more than 30 hops and then the problems start.

At this moment it takes 24 hops to get to Europe, and only 12 hops to come back. But a week ago it took 36 hops to get to Europe and several sites simply times out.

A solution is to terminate all PPP connection at the TOT backbone in Bangkok, 1 or 2 hops away from their CAT connection. That reduces the number of hops on the TOT backbone, but have a slightly larger delay. It's the cheapest and fastest way, but requires an engineer-with-knowledge which they don't have (and a TOT engineer admitted this on the phone!).

[SoMeOnEnUlL]

I noticed that ToT connection has been shitty lately... I can't even browse local website.. I check the speedtest.csloxinfo.com and showing 500Kbps on my 1.5Kbps connection! It was okay awhile back.. I can even played RPG game online.. now, this happened and can't even browse internet..

[worldfun]

feel sorry for you. my TOT speed is still 1800kbps

[Mosha]

Friday and saturday I only had access for a couple of hours in the morning on TOT

[Shah Jahan]

TOT in the north - Mae hon song/Pai has been almost unusable the last few months

the service will constantly cut out and come back again all day long.

it was fine for years before this started happening.

not sure what to do - a call to the local guys just leaves them scratching their heads. and a call to the office has them verify that it is working at that moment- but the problems still occur.

any thoughtS?

[Mosha]

Well my thoughts are, "Boy they make NTL look good" NTL were my provider in the UK. It has been ok today except downloads have beeen slow.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Mosha

[rayw]

With a little research I have discovered that the big problem is that for a couple of months now ToT have been routing all their international traffic via CAT in HONG KONG !! then it returns back to CAT in Bangkok before finally going on its proper way. This is adding on average about 700mS delay and huge hold ups in busy periods with packet losses too. As most of you normally know all international traffic has to pass via the CAT in Thailand who insist on handling all international traffic which in itself is a PITA and a source of severe traffic congestion.

If you look at a tracert or better and easier than that use the free PingPlotter Windows GUI utility (www.pingplotter.com) you will see that the last place traffic leaves ToT is in Bangkok and then goes across to Hong Kong at IP address 61.19.10.xx which you can trace to CAT in Hong Kong ?????? It then returns back to CAT in Bangkok to go on its normal path. So why this pointless Hong kong loop ??? Traffic used to go via a Fibre cable from ToT Bangkok direct to CAT Bangkok with little discernible delay normally. A check with TT&T show that their traffic does NOT go via CAT Hong Kong but as it should do direct to CAT Bangkok and their service from my friends house is very much faster than ToT on international traffic.

Here is an image of a PingPlotter trace taken last week and sent to ToT as well. At least that trace showed little packet loss but that is not always the case at busier times of the day. This trace is typical of all international internet traffic via ToT from my location and from friends where I have checked. Nothing has changed since then despite my sending now 4 or 5 unanswered e-mails to them asking for an explanation for this crazy and highly weird Bangkok- Hong Kong - Bangkok loop on all ToT's international traffic.

I am thoroughly now peed off with ToT who fail to explain why this HK loop is there and causing all their customers so much grief. They do not reply to any e-mails which I find intolerably rude, inexcusable and ignorant. Does anyone know of any current technical reason why ToT traffic goes via a Hong Kong loop? Or is this just maybe some stupid political paranoia reason which is adversely affecting all ToT internet customers. I must say I am not impressed either way as this has gone on for way too long now, a technical problem is normally sorted within a few days or a week at most and they tell you what the problem is in such cases !!!!

I suggest we ALL bombard Tot with e-mails and phone calls demanding action and explanation as to the Kong Kong loop. Their e-mail address I was given is [email protected] Weird that they use hotmail when as an ISP they should at least have and be using their own POP3 mail service ???

I am contacting TT&T this week to see when they can supply me with a better package. Maybe I will now have two lines into my home with one from each provider and downgrade the ToT ADSL to the minimal package and use TT&T for my main broadband connection in future at least then I have a fall back as I know sometimes TT&T give grief too.

Edited April 23, 2008 by rayw

[Prasert]

Rayw:

How did you determine that 61.19.10.13 is on a router in Hongkong?

According to the APNIC database this address is owned by CAT-IIG and is geographically located in Bangkok.

I don't see the huge delay going from TOT to CAT (see my earlier trace in this topic), so it might be just a momentary situation. This graph shows the latency from last week (gaps caused by power outages)

This shows that the latency is around 400ms in the nighttime and averages around 800ms in the daytime. So your traceroute is just a single measurement at a specific time.

[rayw]

Hi Prasert

Well it is definitely not a transient problem as it has been like this for weeks certainly here in Rayong and the Pingplotter trace shows clearly where the problem is every time, a friend of mine shows the same problem too but another on TT&T does not have this loop via 61.19.10.13 or anything within that range. It does improve in the early hours of the morning when traffic is lighter but still far worse than it should be or indeed used to be. Just checked again and it is over 1100 mS latency to Europe or USA sites. This is intolerable.

Thanks for your info and indeed this has raised doubts about the validity of the IP site locator service I use so have investigated further in light of your info. If you take a look at the IP2Location site I used at http://www.ip2location.com/ and search for the 61.19.10.13 IP address you will see it states clearly that it is indeed located in Hong Kong and registered to CAT and to be exact this is the reported ISP name CAT TELECOM DATA COMM. DEPT INTRENET OFFICE yes including the typically Thai misspelt word INTRENET. However I do agree and see on APNIC that it indeed shows 61.19.10.13 to be CAT in BANGKOK and not Hong Kong. What gave me some confidence in saying it was a Hong Kong location was the long delays on that hop to 61:19.10.13 which I see all the time since a few months ago and it would make sense with it being a Hong Kong loop too, though for what weird reason they would do that is beyond me. Indeed investigating further the 61.19.xxx.xxx address block is indeed allocated to Thailand and not Hong Kong so the info I got from the what I though was a reliable IP2Location site may well be incorrect but I am just a suspicious person when I see these network problems going on for so long. Apologies if indeed this proves not to be a Hong Kong based site so thanks for reminding me of using APNIC as the main Asian authority on IP addresses, it appears I may have been misinformed by what should be a reliable IP locator source.

I am currently in contact with a senior guy at the ToT help desk who has returned my call and is looking into this carefully for me so fingers crossed. Whatever, we do all agree the connections through ToT to international websites are indeed very slow and unreliable for the past few months. Either way it shows clearly from here using PingPlotter that it is the ToT hop to CAT that is causing the problems and it must be sorted else we will all move to TT&T and then they will et over subscribed. Incidentally using the simple DOS command tracert I see the same huge latency jump when it goes to 61.19.10.13 and indeed I have never doubted PingPlotter as an excellent tool.

We need 2 or 3 decent international internet providers so ToT have to get this right, so I still stand by what I said in that we should all hassle ToT until they put this problem right but should drop the Hong Kong connection part for now.

Rayw:

How did you determine that 61.19.10.13 is on a router in Hongkong?

According to the APNIC database this address is owned by CAT-IIG and is geographically located in Bangkok.

I don't see the huge delay going from TOT to CAT (see my earlier trace in this topic), so it might be just a momentary situation. This graph shows the latency from last week (gaps caused by power outages)

This shows that the latency is around 400ms in the nighttime and averages around 800ms in the daytime. So your traceroute is just a single measurement at a specific time.

[Dkr]

With a little research I have discovered that the big problem is that for a couple of months now ToT have been routing all their international traffic via CAT in HONG KONG !! then it returns back to CAT in Bangkok before finally going on its proper way. This is adding on average about 700mS delay and huge hold ups in busy periods with packet losses too. As most of you normally know all international traffic has to pass via the CAT in Thailand who insist on handling all international traffic which in itself is a PITA and a source of severe traffic congestion.

Actually TOT, TT&T and TRUE have had their own IIG for a while. You can check that here. Problem is that after CAT lost their monopoly, they have been playing ugly. They know that TOT-IIG has limited bandwidth and at rush hour TOT has to use CAT-IIG also. CAT seems to give TOT hard time with that, which is quite idiotic, since there have been plans to merge CAT and TOT.

Big problem with TOT and other big telecommunication companies here is the same old one. They does not have knowledge, but they can not hire any foreigner, since they would lose their face. Also if they would get consultation from foreigner, it would be ignored. Thais does everything like they always does. Their own way.

I have heard many positive things about KSC. It is more expensive, but I need working internet. So I will vote with my money.

[rayw]

Thank you for that info I was not aware that traffic no longer had to go through CAT that at least is sensible and good news indeed. My ToT connection always goes through CAT though and it is so sloooow. TT&T is so much faster with their IIG as you say because they have more bandwidth available for their user base. I have no choice but to switch to TT&T and just keep my ToT service as a back up at their minimum package. Seems though you need the TT&T premier package to get a really fast service as youget less sharing at your local end and seem to get higher priority at the IIG too, same with ToT BUT their service is so much slower with a lot more latency.

Yes I did work in Comms engineering in the UK before I retired here and that involved a of of data comms work of course, so I am aware of some very poor levels of knowledge here BUT I have met and dealt with some good Thai engineers too so they are not all bad. The Thai culture of losing face by admitting lack of knowledge is really their biggest and most stupid downfall and it will as always hold back Thailand's progress to growth and the higher standards of living that would bring. Of cause they should employ foreign expertise where it is needed, as indeed we do in the UK and most other western countries and also in many other Asian countries too. It would only help Thailand grow if they did likewise, but alas they first need to mature and grow out of this childish attitude they seem to have. Thailand is a great place to live and one day could be a lot better if ever they do change this restrictive immature approach to running their lives, but if they are happier this way then it is their country and must be their choice of course.

With a little research I have discovered that the big problem is that for a couple of months now ToT have been routing all their international traffic via CAT in HONG KONG !! then it returns back to CAT in Bangkok before finally going on its proper way. This is adding on average about 700mS delay and huge hold ups in busy periods with packet losses too. As most of you normally know all international traffic has to pass via the CAT in Thailand who insist on handling all international traffic which in itself is a PITA and a source of severe traffic congestion.

Actually TOT, TT&T and TRUE have had their own IIG for a while. You can check that here. Problem is that after CAT lost their monopoly, they have been playing ugly. They know that TOT-IIG has limited bandwidth and at rush hour TOT has to use CAT-IIG also. CAT seems to give TOT hard time with that, which is quite idiotic, since there have been plans to merge CAT and TOT.

Big problem with TOT and other big telecommunication companies here is the same old one. They does not have knowledge, but they can not hire any foreigner, since they would lose their face. Also if they would get consultation from foreigner, it would be ignored. Thais does everything like they always does. Their own way.

I have heard many positive things about KSC. It is more expensive, but I need working internet. So I will vote with my money.

Edited April 29, 2008 by rayw