Everything You Wanted To Know About Usufruct Agreements In Thailand

[ThaiLawOnline]

I wrote the following text in the last 24 hours after reading a thread about lease agreements.

Sorry about the grammar if it isn't perfect English and if I forgot to mention few things.

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Everything you wanted to know about

usufructs in Thailand.

By Sebastian H. Brousseau, LLB, B.Sc.

Attorney-at-Law (Quebec, Canada)

Managing director of Isaan Lawyers.

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Isaan Lawyers has recently registered usufruct agreements in more than 15 provinces of Thailand. The following text is aimed to give you objective and accurate information about this right included in the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand (hereafter CCCT). Don't hesitate to communicate with us by email should you have any questions or inquiries.

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As you probably know, foreigners are forbidden to own land in Thailand by the Land Code. There are few rare exceptions to this rule (investment of 40 million baht, BOI approval, etc.). This is why many foreigners are looking into ways to secure a real estate investment or at least, give them the right to enjoy a property even if they are not the "full" owner. A usufruct agreement can give you this right: to possess and enjoy a property without being the full owner. And it is perfectly legal.

HISTORY

A usufruct is a real right (real means in civil law = attached to a thing) that originates from Roman law. In Roman law, the wife wasn't entering legally in the family of her husband. At the death of her husband, the wife had no rights of inheritance in the estate. To bypass this injustice, Roman law created the right of "usufruct". This usufruct was giving the widow the possibility to enjoy the asset of her husband after his death even if she wasn't an heir. The asset was normally devolved to the children at that time.

By essence, the right of usufruct is temporary and has roots in family relationships.

WHAT IS A USUFRUCT AGREEMENT

Usufruct contracts are governed by sections 1417 to 1428 of the CCCT. A usufruct is a right granted by the owner(s) of the land/house in favor of a usufructuary whereby this person has the right to possess, use and enjoy the benefits of an immovable property (section 1417 CCCT). The usufructuary has the right to manage the property (sect 1414 CCCT). It can be on a piece of land, on a house or on both of them.

The holder of a usufruct, known as "usufructury", has the right to use, possess and enjoy the property, as well as the right to receive profits from the fruits of the property. The usufructuary could be a person or an entity (ex: a company).

In civil law, property is divided in three parts. They are called in latin "usus" (use), "fructus" (fruits) and "abusus" (abuse). The word usufruct is normally unknown in Commonwealth countries. It combines the two first parts of the property in civil law, the usus (use, or possession) and fructus (fruits, or as we will see, more or less the "profits"). In French, it is called "usufruit" and in Thai "See-tee-kep-kin". It is interesting and useful to know that Thai Civil Law was largely inspired by French Civil law. (see "the work of codification in Siam" by Rene Guyon, 1919.)

The owner who gives the usufruct is called in French "nu-propriétaire" or by literal translation in English "naked-owner". It means that the owner has nothing else than the ownership: He can't use his possession, even if he is the owner. Beside possession and enjoyment of the property, the usufructurary has also the legal right to use and derive benefits from the property that belongs to another person, as long as the property is not damaged. "Fruits" should be understood as its natural (fruits, livestock, etc) and/or its legal definition (rent, etc.).

If you would like to use this right for industrial purposes, be aware that some taxes might be required.

Let's see some examples of usufruct agreements.

EXAMPLES

Imagine that you have a usufruct on a piece of land, an orchard. The apples (natural fruits) will be your asset and do not belong to the 'real" owner of the land. But in our days, fruits are more or less the legal fruits, like a rent from a lease. Section 148 of CCCT defines what can be the legal fruits in Thailand: "legal fruits denote a thing or interest obtained periodically by the owner from another person for the use of the thing; It is calculated and may be acquired day by day or according to a period of time fixed."

Now imagine that you have a Thai girlfriend. She buys the land and gives you a usufruct on this land for free. It means that you can enjoy this property, even ask her to leave the property, can sublease and get the money from the rents, and this, until the end of your life. It is NOT restricted to 30 years maximum. On top of that, if you decide to build on this land, it is possible for you be the full owner of the buildings and constructions. It is really a strong right.

THE END OF A USUFRUCT CONTRACT

In Thailand, a usufruct can be created for a limited time (5 years, 10 years, etc.) or the LIFE of the usufructuary. (sect. 1418 CCCT). If no time has been fixed, it is presumed that the usufruct is for the life of the usufructuary. In any case, the usufruct ends at the death of the usufructuary.

THE USUFRUCTUARY CAN LEASE THE LAND/HOUSE

A usufructuary has the right to enjoy, use and possess the land. He is acting like the real owner but can not sell or destroy the property as he is NOT the full owner. However, he can transfer his rights on the land/house to a third party. Even if the usufruct will end at the death of the usufructuary the usufructuary can lease out the land to a third party and this second agreement will NOT end when the usufructuary will die as per the Supreme Court ruling 2297/1998: "the lessor does not have to be the owner of the property".

So the usufructuary can grant a thirty years lease to a third party. By this way, you could pass on your rights to your children or other relatives even after death if the lease was done before the demise. Do not forget that all leases over 3 years must be registered at the land department and taxes have to be paid.

REGISTRATION

By a decision of the Supreme Court of Thailand, all usufruct agreements must be registered to be valid (Supreme Court decision 6872/2539). Once you register a usufruct at the land department where the title deed is located, your name will be registered (written in Thai) on the title deed. After this registration, the land/house can only be sold provided the buyer respects this usufruct. This is why it will be difficult for the owner to sell the land/house after a usufruct is register: nobody wants to buy a property where they can't live. Be aware land departments in Thailand have different rules and requirements. Some will ask to see your visa, some will ask for the father and mother's name of the usufructuary, etc.

You can also get a yellow book which is a House Registration Certificate (Thor. Ror 13) with a usufruct but many other documents will be required.

MYTHS AND FACTS ABOUT USUFRUCT AGREEMENTS

1) Usufruct can be done for maximum 1 rai

False. We registered usufruct agreements for more than 100 rai with one contract and multiple title deeds. Hovewer, the usufruct must be registered on EACH title deed separately.

2) Usufruct have never been tested by the Court

False, there are Court decisions IN THAILAND about usufructs (examples: Supreme Court of Thailand 2783/2516, 6872/2539, 2297/2541, 2380/2542, etc.). The land department has also published a small guideline about usufruct agreements.

Usufructs originate from Roman Law and they have been known in civil law countries for centuries. It has nothing to do with some old agricultural laws or customs. Remember that leases where mostly used in the 18^th and 19^th centuries by farmers as they were not rich enough to fully buy land.

3) Usufructs are NOT as safe as lease agreements:

False. There is no legal, historical or factual grounds for this affirmation. If a lease is safe in Thailand (section 537 and following), a usufruct is safe. Both of them are in the CCCT, just as a gift agreement (section 453 and following) or a loan contract (section 640 and following).

Unless the Thai law changes, foreigners are fully allowed to make usufruct agreements, just as they are allowed to purchase condominiums or to make a lease agreement. Some law firms prefer to register lease agreements as leases agreements are normally more expensive. If you can understand civil law, there is even some legal basis to say that a usufruct is stronger than a lease agreement.

4) You must pay taxes to register a usufruct agreement

True. If the usufruct agreement is done for an amount of money, taxes of about 1.5 % on the value of the contract will have to be paid. Some land departments don't like to register usufruct agreements for free as they see that their government is not making as much money as a lease agreement. On a lease agreement, you will also have to pay taxes on the value of the rents for the total agreement. Rents must be based on the assessed value of the property. Most of the time, it is cheaper to register a usufruct agreement than a lease agreement. If you register a usufruct agreement involving a company, the land department might ask for some value on the contract. They won't like to see it done for free. It is the discretion of the land officers to accept an agreement even if by law, it is clear and usufruct agreements for free CAN be done.

5) The owner can't borrow money or sell its property if a usufruct is registered

False. Even if you register a usufruct agreement on a title deed, the owner can sell his property to anyone. But in reality, nobody is interested to buy a property where they will have to maintain your right and won't be able to use this property until you die. This is why a usufruct is a good protection for you as it allows you to live there for the rest of your life, whatever happens. If you want this right to be passed to your heirs, it can also be done by a lease agreement might be a better option depending on your case.

6) It is possible to cancel or void a usufruct agreement

If you are NOT married to the owner granting you the usufruct, we believe it is not possible to cancel a usufruct and you are legally protected.

If you are legally married to the owner, Thai lawyers disagree on the application of article 1469 CCCT. This article mentions that all agreements made between spouses can be cancelled by the Court at the request of one party, unless agreements affect third parties. According to one interpretation, "publicity" or registration affect third parties and a usufruct can't be cancelled. According to the other interpretation, we have to search for the spirit of the law and it looks like Thai law wanted to end all relations between spouses in case of divorce, even usufruct agreements. A way to avoid the application of 1469 CCCT would be to have a second agreement (like a lease) affecting a third party before the Court could cancel your usufruct agreement.

7) I will be fully protected with a usufruct

False. Imagine that you bought a big house in a small village near the family of your girlfriend. Now, imagine that things go wrong with her and you decide to expulse her from this house. You have the legal right to do it. But do you really think your life will be nice and quiet near her family, in a big house, in the middle of nowhere? Usufruct will legally protect you but there are situations where even a legal protection won't have any authority in face of the reality.

8) Usufruct agreements can be done anywhere in Thailand

False. Usufruct agreements must be registered and you can register a lease or a usufruct only on title deeds equals or superior to Nor Sor Sam. It means that usufruct can be registered for Chanotte or Nor Sor Sam, but can NOT be registered in some rural areas without proper title deeds.

9) A usufruct agreement is a simple form.

False. It is a contract, like a loan or a lease. All contracts can be adapted or constructed around the situations of the parties. For example, some clients prefer limitations to their usufruct right for their own and personal use. However, others want to be able to transfer their rights without any prior notice or notifications (see section 1422 CCCT). Some usufructs are done for free, some for an amount of money. All clauses are possible if they are not against public order.

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Usufruct agreements are a strong protection as they let you possess, use and manage a property in Thailand. We believe they will give you some piece of mind while you enjoy all the other aspects of Thailand. They can be a very good alternative to lease agreements, as they can be for your lifetime, with lesser taxes. Don't hesitate to consult a lawyer if you want to know your best options according to your needs and your personal situation.

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DISPOSITIONS OF THE CIVIL AND COMMERCIAL

CODE OF THAILAND

TITLE VII: USUFRUCT

Section 1417

An immovable property may be subjected to a usufruct by virtue of which the usufructuary is entitled to the possession, use and enjoyment of the property.

He has the right of management of the property.

The usufruct of a forest, mine or quarry entitles the usufructuary to the exploitation of the forest, mine or quary.

Section 1418

A usufruct may be created either for a period of time or for the life of the usufructary.

If no time has been fixed, it is presumed that the usufruct is for the life of the usfructuary.

If it is created for a period of time, the provisions of Section 1403 paragraph 3 shall apply mutatis mutandis.

In any case the usufuct comes to an end on the death of the usufructuary.

Section 1419

If property is destroyed without compensation being paid, the owner is not bound to restore it; but, if he does so to any extent, the usufruct revives to that extent.

If any compensation is paid, the owner or the usufructary must restore the property so far as it is possible to do so, having regard to the amount of the compensation received, and the usufruct revives to that extent; but, if restoration is impossible, the usufruct comes to an end and the compensation must be divided between the owner and the usufructary in proportion to the damages suffered by the respectively.

The same rules apply mutatis mutandis in the case of expropriation as well as in the case of partial destruction of the property or of partial impossibility to restore the property.

Section 1420

When the usufruct comes to an end, the usufructuary must return the property to the owner.

The usufructuary is liable for the destruction or depreciation in value of the property, unless he proves that the damage was not the cause of his own fault.

He must replace anything which he has wrongfully consumed.

He is not bound to give compensation for depreciation in value caused by reasonable use.

Section 1421

The usufructary must, in the exercise of his rights, take as much care of the property as a person of ordinary prudence would take of his own property.

Section 1422

Unless otherwise provided in the act creating the usufruct, the usufructary may transfer the exercise of his right to a third person. In such case, the owner of the property may sue the transferee directly.

Section 1423

The owner may object to any unlawful or unreasonable use of the property.

If the owner proves that his rights are in peril, he may demand security from the usufructary; except in the case of a donor who has reserved to himself the usufruct of the property given.

If the usufructary fails to give security within a reasonable time fixed for the purpose, or if, in spite of the owner's objection, he continues to make use of the property unlawfully or unreasonably, the Court may appoint a Receiver to manage the property in his stead. Upon security being given, the Court may release the Receiver so appointed.

Section 1424

The usufructary is bound to keep the substance of the property unaltered, and is responsible for ordinary maintenance and petty repairs.

If important repairs or measures are necessary for the preservation of the property, the usufructuary must forthwith inform the owner thereof and permit them to be carried out. In case of default by the owner, the usufructuary may have the work carried out at the owner's expense.

Section 1425

All extraordinary expenses must be borne by the owner, but in order to meet these or expenses coming under the foregoing section he may realize part of the property unless the usufructuary is willing to advance the necessary funds without charging interest.

Section 1426

The usufructary shall, for the duration of the usufruct, bear expenses for the management of the property, pay taxes and duties, and be responsible for interest payable on debts charged upon it.

Section 1427

If required by the owner, the usufructuary is bound to insure the property against loss for the benefit of the owner; and if the property is already insured, he is bound to renew such insurance when due.

He must pay the premiums of the insurance for the duration of his usufruct.

Section 1428

No action by the owner against the usufructuary or his transferee in connection with the usufruct or vice versa may be entered later than 1 year after the usufruct comes to an end; but in any action by the owner who could not have known of the end of the usufruct, the prescription of 1 year shall run from the time when he knew or ought to have know of it.

[LivinLOS]

Deffo a stciky (and delete this post) well done and thanks for taking the time to write it.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Thank you for your effort in producing that contribution.

[j0hnga1t]

Wow!! you were reading my mind......I am contemplating buying a house with my girlfriend (Thai) as the owner....

[Mobi]

I can confirm that everything you have written was also told to me by my own lawyer, and thank you for setting out all the issues so clearly.

I can also confirm that your point 4 is very true. When we went to register my usufruct the land officer was very "difficult", clearly hated farangs and tried to persuade my wife that I was cheating her - even though the house had originally been owned by my company and subsequently transferred to her name.

He wanted her to issue a lease instead as he would get more taxes.

My lawyer refused to back down and in the end we did the usufruct for value, paid some tax, and there was also a large backhander involved.

[Khun Jean]

Thank you for your effort in producing that contribution.

So can you do your part and make it a STICKY! Please?

IsaanLawyer, excellent post!

6) It is possible to cancel or void a usufruct agreement

If you are NOT married to the owner granting you the usufruct, we believe it is not possible to cancel a usufruct and you are legally protected.

And here is the 'small' problem. Again NOT 100% guaranteed. But for most cases close enough.

How many people buy land in a girlfriends name, and how many in a wifes name?

I don't have statistics only a feeling.

I think it is the wifes name, and so the problem of guarantee is still not solved.

It would from a foreigners standpoint be better to get a usefruct from the owner directly instead of putting it in your wifes name.

Good luck with that!

Another alternative would be to put the land in your spouses mother/father/brother/sister name.

Again the wife will definately not be happy. (The land in mothers name might be acceptable)

My wife has 5 sisters, if their mother dies would she will the land to all her children or to only the one i happen to marry?

At least i would be entitled to remain and my wife (our children!) may end up with only 1/6th of the land.

Also not the perfect solution.

Here is the question?

What if the land is in the children's name and 'papa' has a usufruct?

Now THAT would be perfect for me!

[Irene]

It is realy good of you to share your experience with us on this route in which many have buried as not possible.

Now they will start asking are you 100% sure?

[Irene]

j0hnga1t,

Make sure that when she is the owner, she is not your wife yet. Then there won't be much challenges left.

[malcolminthemiddle]

We just bought some land in my wifes name.

I asked for a usufruct to be registered in my name at the time of transfer.

The officer refused saying it wasn't necessary because we were married.

I knew he was wrong and it was my right, but I didn't want to make a fuss at that time, so no usufruct was registered.

I may try again at a later date.

[LivinLOS]

Problem of course still exists that its very hard to resell the 'asset' if its real money..

Lots of land I am seeing now on the Phuket coastline is 15m+ a rai.. the land plot alone for a villa can be 30m baht. At that kind of money its not really buy it and just use it values, you want to ensure it transfers to family and is 'owned' usufruct just doesnt do that, its right of use but its still not ownership.

[jazzbo]

Why would any landowner offer a Usufruct in an arm's length transaction for no value? Registering a Usufruct for no value clearly indicates a sham transaction and an attempt to circumvent land ownership regulations and, in my non-Lawyer opinion, could be the basis for a challenge down the road. Declare a realistic value for the Usufruct and pay the tax.

[Khun Jean]

We just bought some land in my wifes name.

I asked for a usufruct to be registered in my name at the time of transfer.

The officer refused saying it wasn't necessary because we were married.

I knew he was wrong and it was my right, but I didn't want to make a fuss at that time, so no usufruct was registered.

I may try again at a later date.

That is why a lawyer is usefull. To cut the BS and have (show) some authority.

And why not make a fuss? What about no deal when no usufruct. Even the seller will support you.

[ThaiLawOnline]

Sorry that I can't answer all questions. But here are few comments:

Mobi: Are you in Hua Hin? This land department asks a lot for tea money… J Everywhere else, we didn't have so much problems. It can be done, register, and for almost nothing.

Khun Jean: Nothing is 100% guaranteed in Thailand (as you say!)… but usufructs is my favorite with a loan agreement and a mortgage on the loan to guarantee it….OOOOOOUPS ! I will have to write an article on that! J

But a usufruct is smoother for girlfriends.

The perfect solution for you (Khun Jean) looks like the wife is the owner (that's easy), she grants you a usufruct (also easy) and your wife gives the land to your child (will have to talk to the land department officers for that). You will pay more taxes (I believe duty stamp, .5 %) but it is possible. If a child is involved in a usufruct, giving and receiving, you normally need the approval of the Court. If a child receives land WITH a usufruct, we believe there is no problem. We already made a search on that but never applied it to a client.

Malcolminthemiddle: Yes, it happens. Officers do not know all the options and foreigners too. Some of my clients were refused a usufruct before using our services. We had problems only for 2 clients, one involving a company in Hua Hin and one involving a gay couple. The problem was resolved by giving some taxes for these 2 clients. All the others, a usufruct for free was accepted (Even today in Khon Kaen, and we are doing one in Surin tomorrow)

LivingLOS: Welcome to Thailand! Ownership is impossible for land, unless you have a Thai limited company and are willing to take this risk, or you have some special exemptions like BOI, 40 million baht investment for one rai, etc. You can have also ownership by inheritance by you have ONE YEAR to sell your property should someone gave it to you after their death. Or course, some people will tell you about freehold, even for houses. We don't do it. In your case, get some Thai partners. Be will you trust them? J

Jazzbo: this is why I don't write often on forums. Answering questions like WHY DO PEOPLE GIVE A USUFRUCT? Why do I have the right to give or receive? Why? Because it is THE LAW. Everything can be challenge but you must have arguments. You don't. Do you know that GIFTS are part on the law too? Sorry to be rude.

[jazzbo]

All I said is that if you pay a reasonable tax, there are aspects of the usufruct agreement that are sounder than if no tax is paid... that should make sense to ANY lawyer... and that is why I have not responded in months.

[LoveDaBlues]

Sorry that I can't answer all questions. But here are few comments:

Mobi: Are you in Hua Hin? This land department asks a lot for tea money… J Everywhere else, we didn't have so much problems. It can be done, register, and for almost nothing.

Khun Jean: Nothing is 100% guaranteed in Thailand (as you say!)… but usufructs is my favorite with a loan agreement and a mortgage on the loan to guarantee it….OOOOOOUPS ! I will have to write an article on that! J

But a usufruct is smoother for girlfriends.

The perfect solution for you (Khun Jean) looks like the wife is the owner (that's easy), she grants you a usufruct (also easy) and your wife gives the land to your child (will have to talk to the land department officers for that). You will pay more taxes (I believe duty stamp, .5 %) but it is possible. If a child is involved in a usufruct, giving and receiving, you normally need the approval of the Court. If a child receives land WITH a usufruct, we believe there is no problem. We already made a search on that but never applied it to a client.

Malcolminthemiddle: Yes, it happens. Officers do not know all the options and foreigners too. Some of my clients were refused a usufruct before using our services. We had problems only for 2 clients, one involving a company in Hua Hin and one involving a gay couple. The problem was resolved by giving some taxes for these 2 clients. All the others, a usufruct for free was accepted (Even today in Khon Kaen, and we are doing one in Surin tomorrow)

LivingLOS: Welcome to Thailand! Ownership is impossible for land, unless you have a Thai limited company and are willing to take this risk, or you have some special exemptions like BOI, 40 million baht investment for one rai, etc. You can have also ownership by inheritance by you have ONE YEAR to sell your property should someone gave it to you after their death. Or course, some people will tell you about freehold, even for houses. We don't do it. In your case, get some Thai partners. Be will you trust them? J

Jazzbo: this is why I don't write often on forums. Answering questions like WHY DO PEOPLE GIVE A USUFRUCT? Why do I have the right to give or receive? Why? Because it is THE LAW. Everything can be challenge but you must have arguments. You don't. Do you know that GIFTS are part on the law too? Sorry to be rude.

Wow, what a great post! Thanks!

Now you've got me (already married) waiting for the 2nd chapter (see red above).

[Khun Jean]

I like to use the words '100% GUARANTEED' to emphasize it.

But in reality if something is not guaranteed it is just that, not guaranteed. No matter if it is 99.9% or 1%.

Until now i am sure of a 30 years lease and a usufruct both in the situations that the other party is not your spouse!

Like everybody i am searching for the perfect solution. It is not there yet but we are getting closer.

I still feel the usufruct with a spouse is not the best way. Getting a usufruct from anybody else seems solid. Same as a lease but why limit yourself to 30 years.

In a divorce the spouse just has to go to your office (isaan lawyers) and ask for the best advice. And poof gone is the usufruct.

A mortgage adds some security, but isn't a mortgage to your spouse a little 'strange' and equally easy to 'erase'?

You can't officially loan to your spouse it is theirs 50% already, when you are married you share everything (except land of course).

Someone besides you has to do the mortgage, and getting a mortgage on land that is under a usufruct, seems difficult to me.

Is it not that in those circumstance we 'hope' the spouse is clueless?

To see both sides you have to research both sides. So the situation and question is:

I am a Thai wife married to a foreigner. He has a usufruct i want to get rid of.

The value of the land is 10 Million baht. I pay you no cure no pay 10% to find a solution.

What is the solution for her?

[Naam]

Like everybody i am searching for the perfect solution. It is not there yet but we are getting closer.

I still feel the usufruct with a spouse is not the best way. Getting a usufruct from everyone else seems solid. Same as a lease but why limit yourself to 30 years.

In a divorce the spouse just has to go to your office (isaan lawyers) and ask for the best advice. And poof gone is the usufruct. A mortgage adds some security, but isn't a mortgage to your spouse a little 'strange' and equally easy to 'erase'?

You can't officially loan to your spouse it is theirs 50% already, when you are married you share everything (except land of course). Someone besides you has to do the mortgage, and getting a mortgage on land that is under a usufruct, seems difficult to me.

To see both sides you have to research both sides. So the situation and question is:

I am a Thai wife married to a foreigner. He has a usufruct i want to get rid of.

The value of the land is 10 Million baht. I pay you no cure no pay 10% to find a solution.

What is the solution for her?

i don't know the solution for the thai wife. the solution for me was not to have a thai wife

[Khun Jean]

The perfect solution for you (Khun Jean) looks like the wife is the owner (that's easy), she grants you a usufruct (also easy) and your wife gives the land to your child (will have to talk to the land department officers for that). You will pay more taxes (I believe duty stamp, .5 %) but it is possible. If a child is involved in a usufruct, giving and receiving, you normally need the approval of the Court. If a child receives land WITH a usufruct, we believe there is no problem. We already made a search on that but never applied it to a client.

Sounds good. I not considered that option yet.

Could it also be the case when your wifes mother is the owner who grants the usufruct to me and then gives the land to her daughter (my wife)?

If that is the case anybody can be used to do the initial land transfer and granting the usufruct. After that transfer it with the usufruct to wife/husband/whoever.

Is that right?

[LoveDaBlues]

Like everybody i am searching for the perfect solution. It is not there yet but we are getting closer.

I still feel the usufruct with a spouse is not the best way. Getting a usufruct from everyone else seems solid. Same as a lease but why limit yourself to 30 years.

In a divorce the spouse just has to go to your office (isaan lawyers) and ask for the best advice. And poof gone is the usufruct. A mortgage adds some security, but isn't a mortgage to your spouse a little 'strange' and equally easy to 'erase'?

You can't officially loan to your spouse it is theirs 50% already, when you are married you share everything (except land of course). Someone besides you has to do the mortgage, and getting a mortgage on land that is under a usufruct, seems difficult to me.

To see both sides you have to research both sides. So the situation and question is:

I am a Thai wife married to a foreigner. He has a usufruct i want to get rid of.

The value of the land is 10 Million baht. I pay you no cure no pay 10% to find a solution.

What is the solution for her?

i don't know the solution for the thai wife. the solution for me was not to have a thai wife

good answer

I had a Thai GF but then a baby came along......so I thought the proper thing to do was get married. Now we've got a little 6 kilo beast.

[jazzbo]

Everything can be challenge but you must have arguments. You don't. :

Violations of Chapter 8 and Section 113 of the ACT PROMULGATING THE LAND CODE B. E. 2497

specifically:

Section 113 Any person who acquires land as an agent of an alien or juristic person under the provisions of Section 97 or 98 shall be punished with a fine not exceeding twenty thousand baht or an imprisonment not exceeding two years, or both.

[LoveDaBlues]

Everything can be challenge but you must have arguments. You don't. :

Violations of Chapter 8 and Section 113 of the ACT PROMULGATING THE LAND CODE B. E. 2497

specifically:

Section 113 Any person who acquires land as an agent of an alien or juristic person under the provisions of Section 97 or 98 shall be punished with a fine not exceeding twenty thousand baht or an imprisonment not exceeding two years, or both.

How does my getting a usufruct from a Thai citizen have anything to do with Section 113?

[Khun Jean]

Everything can be challenge but you must have arguments. You don't. :

Violations of Chapter 8 and Section 113 of the ACT PROMULGATING THE LAND CODE B. E. 2497

specifically:

Section 113 Any person who acquires land as an agent of an alien or juristic person under the provisions of Section 97 or 98 shall be punished with a fine not exceeding twenty thousand baht or an imprisonment not exceeding two years, or both.

Lucky for 'us' we don't acquire land, only rent or use it. And if in some circumstance we really do acquire, like when a spouse dies, we have one year to dispose of it.

Hmmm. 20.000 baht. That is not too much.

[quiksilva]

Nice thread, thank you Sebastian!

[jazzbo]

A different legal opinion:

Following the government's move to put an end to the practice of foreigners using shell companies to own land an alternative structure suggested is a Thai national as the nominee land owner acting on behalf of the foreigner, combined with a 30-year 'renewable' lease (or usufruct for the life of) in the foreigner's name. Also in this construction Thai law is not on the foreigner's side. The Land Code prohibits the use of Thai nationals to acquire land as a nominee owner/ agent in place of the foreigner (section 96 Land Code). In this construction both parties risk being fined and jailed... In practice this structure is sometimes put in place, but the foreigners legal position is not strong and even though the lease or usufruct is registered in the foreigner's name this could lead to potential problems in the future.

Section 96 Land Code; 'When it appears that any person (including a juristic person) has acquired land as the owner in place of an alien or juristic person under the provisions of Section 97 and 98, the Director-General shall have the authority to dispose of such land and the provisions of Section 94 shall apply mutatis mutandis'.

Section 113 Land Code; 'Any person who acquires land as an agent of an alien or juristic person under the provisions of Section 97 or 98 shall be punished with a fine not exceeding twenty thousand baht or an imprisonment not exceeding two years, or both'.

Of course those who want you to give them your money (the local property lawyers and property seller) will tell you that a lease structure with a nominee Thai land owner is as good as freehold ownership. They hope you will buy the property using this argument, but this is NOT correct. This structure is strictly spoken not allowed under Thai law, and the suggested protections and guarantees for the lease renewals are very weak and easy to lose.

[mpdkorat]

At what age can a child born to a Thai citizen legally register land in their own name? I presume that this ownership would have to be supervised till the child reaches the age of 20. Anyone know much about this subject.

It would help in my case as I would want my child to inherit the property, the possible downside would be the courts not allowing a child to give a usefruct on the land. It just does not sound right to me, as the child would be giving away rights without fully understanding all the implications.

[malcolminthemiddle]

We just bought some land in my wifes name.

I asked for a usufruct to be registered in my name at the time of transfer.

The officer refused saying it wasn't necessary because we were married.

I knew he was wrong and it was my right, but I didn't want to make a fuss at that time, so no usufruct was registered.

I may try again at a later date.

That is why a lawyer is usefull. To cut the BS and have (show) some authority.

And why not make a fuss? What about no deal when no usufruct. Even the seller will support you.

I believe there were two reasons why the officer refused to register the usufruct.

1. If we were to divorce, as the legally registered spouse I would be entitled to 50% of the land value.

2. If my wife were to die, then I would automatically inherit the land with 12 months to sell or reregister in a Thai name.

I didn't make a fuss because the land is prime real estate which we bought at a bargain basement price and I was happy to seal the deal without the usufruct. Also, the money originated from the sin sod from our marriage some years ago which had been invested in land that we had sold and were now reinvesting, again in land.

[ThaiLawOnline]

Someone wrote that there is a problem about mortgage to your wife while married. You are perfectly right.

A person asked me the price in pm. We do it for between 12K and 20K, depending on the location. Including drafting of the contract, checking title deeds and zoning law, register the contract, explanation of the law, etc.

jazzbo: Your example refers to SHELL COMPANIES to own land and NOT only usufruct. It's a combination in your legal opinion. Of course, that is illegal. If your girlfriend is the owner, of course she can gives a usufruct to whoever she wants. I believe you don't fully understand differences between a lease, a usufruct, a shell company, and combinaison of them.

mdpkorat: Simple answer: There is no age in the law. But it is more complicated and it's the discretion of the land officers to accept or not a transfer on a child's name.

You are talking about what is called "Capacity" in Law (section 19 to 36 in CCCT). Under Civil law, there is more or less an age when people are known to be able to distinguish what is good or bad, around 6 or 7 years. This is where they can normally become liable. There is a difference between civil liability and criminal liability.

For civil acts, you will verify on the circonstances of each person. Even an adult, in some circumstances, will need some authorisations to make a juridistic act as they might not be fully capable (ex.: mental disorders) You verify if this person can speak, answer, and the land officers will probably check if the child can read or write. If not, signatures can be written with a fingerprint! (section 9 of CCCT)

The problem with children is that their asset is 'checked' and parents can't do anything they want with the property of the children. There are limitations in the law. Also, juridistic acts by children needs the approbation of the parents (section 21).

It's easier if children receive a gift...and not if they buy! (easier to make the officers say YES).

If they buy, questions like where the money comes from will be asked...How does a child have money and they might require the Court to authorize a purchase because it is normally for a large amount of money.

Again, it's not the same in each land department and this is why we always double check with local officers BEFORE doing a transaction when it involves complicated things. (Even if we have a copy of the manual they are using in land departments!).

Malcolm in the middle:

1- No.

2- Not necessarily. If your wife has a will and gives me the land!!! You are presuming that she gives it to you!

Main reason why they refused to register usufruct: They don't know. We did the first one in Kuchinarai, in Mukdahan, in Korat, in Tat Toom, in Khon Kaen, etc. All officers are smiling when they see that for the first time... When I feel there will be a problem, I go with our Thai lawyers. We need to bring examples, show them how to do it, they look in their manuals, they don't want to do a mistake, they invent they have to call in Bangkok, try to delay, etc. They just don't like to do something that they don't understand (1), don't collect taxes (2), and gives rights to a foreigner (3). These are my 3 first explanations based on my experience. I was in Tat toom (near surin) yesterday and we almost got postpone because of (1) but they finally register it after 4 hours of waiting. So, imagine if we wait few hours...what it can be in foreigners go there alone to do it for the first time...

[jazzbo]

The opinion I quoted refers to a "...Thai national as the nominee land owner acting on behalf of the foreigner, combined with a 30-year 'renewable' lease (or usufruct for the life of) in the foreigner's name." It says that some dubious lawyers promote this approach as an alternative to a Shell company. It is not MY legal opinion (as I am not an attorney) but from another lawyer's website.

They are clearly addressing the instance of a foreigner providing the finances for a Thai national to purchase a property and then issue a usufruct in favor of the foreigner. They cite the sections of the Land Code (not the Civil Code) that would be violated and say that BOTH parties would be at risk. The fact that a land office will register this arrangement does not mean that there are not liabilities down the road. If your girl friend, as you say, wants to issue to you a usufruct she can do so as long as she did not purchase the property as your nominee and with your money

...but that's OK. I have said my piece. You just go write ahead and write as many of these as you can while you can.

[ThaiLawOnline]

Jazzbo: The website you cite is SFS. And I believe I know who wrote that and I have great respect for him. Remember that You can find EVERYTHING on Internet. An opinion is normally signed, by a lawyer, solicitor, etc. I would love to see this person of SFS signing the texts. I am talking about the foreign attorney over there...

Anyway, I won't discuss about another website but you are in their section "USING Thai nominee as a Thai owner".

Respectfully, we are not using Thai nominees as Thai owner. The spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend is the OWNER, the full owner. And she/he grants the right of usufruct for free or for an amount of money. Read my #5 --> THE OWNER CAN SELL OR BORROW MONEY but difficult. I didn't say the foreigner is the owner. The owner is the Thai person and we don't use nominees where I work. Usufructs are FULLY LEGAL. You can ask SFS or any website

[jazzbo]

Section 96 Land Code; 'When it appears that any person (including a juristic person) has acquired land as the owner in place of an alien or juristic person under the provisions of Section 97 and 98, the Director-General shall have the authority to dispose of such land and the provisions of Section 94 shall apply mutatis mutandis'.

As the said in Watergate, FOLLOW THE MONEY. If the money comes from the foreigner to begin with, the then Thai national is by definition the nominee... I guess you will say that it IS her money. It was a gift.