Iraqi Hostages

[simon43]

Just reading some British newspapers about the sad news of Eugene - the American hostage who was recently beheaded in Iraqi. Apparently he had a Thai wife.

And the British guy who is also being held is married to a Thai woman called Lek.

I seem to recall that a previous American hostage who was executed also was married to a Thai lady.

It seems that a number of Thai women/families are being directly affected by the events in Iraq.

I think all of us on ThaiVisa wish well for Eugene's wife at this sad time, and hope that Lek doesn't suffer from a similar sad end to the kidnapping of her husband in Iraq.

Simon

[bartender100]

simon43

I too started a tread yesterday about this,but it was closed because some individuals here wanted to turn it in to a political disscussion about the rights and wrongs of the war,when all i wanted to point out was these guys were Thailand expats,who shared the same love of this country as we do,and are in a dire situations.

I,m sure this tread will go the same way.

[Nam Kao]

Video Shows U.K. Hostage's Plea for Life

CAIRO, Egypt - A videotape posted on Islamic Web site Wednesday showed a man identifying himself as British hostage Kenneth Bigley pleading for British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) to help save his life.

AP Photo

"To Mr. Blair, my name is Ken Bigley, from Liverpool," the blindfolded man said in the videotape. "I think this is possibly my last chance," the speaker said in the grainy video. "I don't want to die. I don't deserve."

"Please free female prisoners held in Iraqi prisons."

Tawhid and Jihad, the militant group led by Jordanian terror mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, has threatened to kill Bigley unless Iraqi women held in U.S. custody are released. The group has already killed two American hostages it kidnapped along with the 62-year-old Bigley from their Baghdad residence last week.

[Limbo]

The minister of justice of the temporary government of Iraq wants to free the two ladies, simply because they are found not guilty of criminal acts.

Everybody saves face: the kidnappers because some women are freed, the US-people because the decision to free them was taken before the kidnapping, the temporary government by showing at least some authority, and for Mr. Bigley it would mean to live on, to save his life.

The women would have been released now anyhow. Now the US-army wants to keep them imprisoned, to avoid even the impression that the decision to free them, which was taken weeks before the kidnapping, might have been connected to the kidnapping.

Don't ask me to explain the logics in this.

The people who don't want to save Mr. Bigley are going to be just as guilty as the people who will hold the deadly weapon.

Is there any difference between causing some'ones death by not acting or acting?

Isn't non-acting a choice of action as well?

Poodle Blair, don't offer another of your country fellow men just to serve the criminal ignorance and stupidity of your allies!

[Limbo]

The voice of a 62 year old Brit expat in Thailand, now imprisoned in Iraq,begging for his life.

"I don't want to die, I don't deserve it and neither do the women deserve to be prisoners. Please, please release the female prisoners that are held in Iraqi prisons. Please help them."

"Mr Blair, I am nothing to you. It's just one person in the whole of the United Kingdom, that's all. With a family like you've got a family, with children, like your children, your boys, your wife.

"Please, you can help, I know you can. These people are not asking for the world, they're asking for their wives and the mothers of their children.

I ask all American members of this forum, especially these who always defend the American actions in Iraq, to do their uttermost to save Mr. Bigley, a fellow expat in Thailand.

[Storekeeper]

Administrators,

This has already gone off topic. The liberals can't help themselves from provoking.

Respectfully,

Storekeeper

[Limbo]

Why doesn't the fate of a fellow expat mean anything to you?

This is not about politics, this is about human life!

[Storekeeper]

I tried to make that point with kwiz117 yesterday...who is lurking in this thread as we speak. Just watch...he'll take this to another level any moment.

[IamMaiC]

The minister of justice of the temporary government of Iraq wants to free the two ladies, simply because they are found not guilty of criminal acts.

Everybody saves face: the kidnappers because some women are freed, the US-people because the decision to free them was taken before the kidnapping, the temporary government by showing at least some authority, and for Mr. Bigley it would mean to live on, to save his life.

The women would have been released now anyhow. Now the US-army wants to keep them imprisoned, to avoid even the impression that the decision to free them, which was taken weeks before the kidnapping, might have been connected to the kidnapping.

Don't ask me to explain the logics in this.

The people who don't want to save Mr. Bigley are going to be just as guilty as the people who will hold the deadly weapon.

Is there any difference between causing some'ones death by not acting or acting?

Isn't non-acting a choice of action as well?

Poodle Blair, don't offer another of your country fellow men just to serve the criminal ignorance and stupidity of your allies!

Answer me this even though you bargain with these animals what's not stopping them from killing him anyway?? You give up the two women OK and whatever Women are in the prisons. And then they kill him, They killed the americans regardless if the women were freed or not.

These guys took the risk going to Iraq If i was a contractor I'm carrying a gun with me at all times. I would end my own life before i was taken with those animals.

[kwiz117]

If i was a contractor I'm carrying a gun with me at all times. I would end my own life before i was taken with those animals.

1. You will not go to Iraq for sure..

2. If Terrorist say they will release..then they will do it like the way they have done in the case of Philippines. They can be trusted than the governments involved in this war..

BTW, negotiating with Terrorists is not a so bad idea like the way you think.. It's better to do it now than later so we can save thousands of innocent lives..

BBC: They have executed those two Italian Women..

Terrorists have won this war already..

Quoting the Opposition Leader of Australia..who's first son got killed by Terrorists..

" We should negotiate with terrorists now than later coz I lost one of my sons and I want my other two son's to live.."

[Insight]

And the British guy who is also being held is married to a Thai woman called Lek.

Lek? I know her!!!

But in all seriousness, this guy doesn't live too far from my home town. I seen his TV appeal last night and it did move me.

No matter what the outcome, there are no winners in this situation.

[IamMaiC]

If i was a contractor  I'm carrying a gun with me at all times.  I would end my own life before i was taken with those animals. 

1. You will not go to Iraq for sure..

2. If Terrorist say they will release..then they will do it like the way they have done in the case of Philippines. They can be trusted than the governments involved in this war..

BTW, negotiating with Terrorists is not a so bad idea like the way you think.. It's better to do it now than later so we can save thousands of innocent lives..

BBC: They have executed those two Italian Women..

Terrorists have won this war already..

Quoting the Opposition Leader of Australia..who's first son got killed by Terrorists..

" We should negotiate with terrorists now than later coz I lost one of my sons and I want my other two son's to live.."

I've been to Iraq with the US Army National Guard Sir Terrorists are animals and cannot be trusted even Iraqi people say the same They want a new life they have been beaten down for so long They want to have and live a good life.

The Terrorists want control of the country It's simple as that and the clerics are fighting between each other also, You cannot trust these people at all You see they killed the italian women Did they say what they wanted in return so they wouldn't kill them I didn't hear anything about it.

Yeah OK you go negotiate with them Once you start they will want more and more things and if they are not able to get it then they start taking hostages again.

To ###### with all of them

[kwiz117]

I've been to Iraq  with the US Army National Guard Sir  Terrorists are animals and cannot be trusted  even Iraqi people say the same  They want a new life  they have been beaten down for so long  They want to have and live a good life.

The Terrorists want control of the country  It's simple as that  and the clerics are fighting between each other also,  You cannot trust these people at all  You see they killed the italian women    Did they say what they wanted in return so they wouldn't kill them  I didn't hear anything about it.

Yeah OK you go negotiate with them  Once you start they will want more and more things and if they are not able to get it then they start taking hostages again.

To ###### with all of them

No, Terrorists do not want to control Iraq.. They want you to leave to your own backyards.. Infact, no Terrorist Problem when Sadam was in power..

For two Italian Women they wanted Italy to withdraw from Iraq.. I am sure they must have gone through the unthinkable before the execution in return to abusing of Iraqi Women.. Actually they should have shot themselves before getting captured for sure..

Don't you understand no Human in both sides here.. Both sides are Terrorists and fighting for nothing here..

Can you list down what terrorists have done and what your Govt have not done? Any characteristic difference between two sides..?Negotiate means Terrorists with Terrorists.. I do not see any problem in it..

[IamMaiC]

Sir Saddam was the Terrorist of that country No terrorist problem your talking out your A$$ negotiation for me is putting a bullet in their head I have been in some firefights and some of them pick up little kids for shields and I am not terrorist sir I am an Honorable soldier if i am to die during the firefight sure but i am taking as many as those animals with me as i can so not many are left for the soldiers that remain after i have gone.

I also did not run and hide like they did or run into a crowd of people so we wouldn't shoot at them They did this some even got the crowds worked up so some of them would fight us We had to back down then because then we would be shooting iraqis

Have you ever been in the military?? I did my part over there and i'm proud of it I didn't whine like some nations military personnel You sign up for the military you should know the risks if not then you better get out.

I am expected to go to afghanistan soon possibly not sure yet I am not a macho guy and i don't get off on killing people but i ###### well will protect myself Every one on this forum is baggering the US but have you lived here?? We don't have a perfect country no one has but i know at least we have freedom.

[Limbo]

If i was a contractor I'm carrying a gun with me at all times.

If I was Mr. Bigley I wished anything to be done what could save my life.

Just rules, paradigmas, mutual agreements, personal opinions, institutional stubbornness, so called strenght, so called wisdom or logic, are in the way to let Mr. Bigley live his old days in Thailand with his wife and family.

I know the easiest way is to blame the victim, Mr. IamMaiC. It helps to silence the own conscience. One doesn't have to feel sorry, to feel bad.

He should have shot himself you say. Because you, as you want us to believe, would have done. Problem solved.

Go one step further and you might come close to blaming Mr. Bigley himself for being kidnapped.

Can't we just say that we want Mr. Bigley back alive?

That we cope with everything that comes later at a later moment?

But at this moment Mr. Bigley fights for his life. For me nothing else can count on a moment like this.

We know that torture and rape occurs in the prisons, that's why fanatic Islamic fighters already tried to bomb the women prison. To kill the women by themselves to save their honor. That is the way they think.

Turn things around Mr. IamMaiC: Think about having a sister or your mother in an prison run by fanatic islamic rebels. And that you would know that they could be tortured or raped at any moment. The moment you light a sigarette another sigarette could be estinguished on the body of your beloved one.

Wouldn't you consider blackmail an acceptable way to trie to get them out?

Or would you smuggle in suicide tablets? Another way to get them out.

And if you were born in Iraq, dear Mr. IamMaiC, how could you be sure that you weren't one of the guys of the other side?

You sound like a strong person, a fighter for a good course, with no doubts about yourself, loyal to your country fellow men?

What more does one need to become a good or even fanatic patriot?

There are no 'if's' to consider. To many people died already. For ideas and concepts. 62 Years old. That's when life starts.

[kwiz117]

Sir Saddam was the Terrorist of that country No terrorist problem your talking out your A$$ negotiation for me is putting a bullet in their head I have been in some firefights and some of them pick up little kids for shields and I am not terrorist sir I am an Honorable soldier if i am to die during the firefight sure but i am taking as many as those animals with me as i can so not many are left for the soldiers that remain after i have gone.

I also did not run and hide like they did or run into a crowd of people so we wouldn't shoot at them They did this some even got the crowds worked up so some of them would fight us We had to back down then because then we would be shooting iraqis

Have you ever been in the military?? I did my part over there and i'm proud of it I didn't whine like some nations military personnel You sign up for the military you should know the risks if not then you better get out.

I am expected to go to afghanistan soon possibly not sure yet I am not a macho guy and i don't get off on killing people but i ###### well will protect myself Every one on this forum is baggering the US but have you lived here?? We don't have a perfect country no one has but i know at least we have freedom.

Long time ago..when I fought in World War 2 and in Vietnam.. I remember I met a folk like you.. Now I am too old and can not fight in Iraq and Afghanistan any more.

Having many shadows can help in getting a bullet direct to your temple..

May God Bless you son.. !!! Take care..

[stroll]

Since when did presentday 26 yearold Sri Lankans fight in WW2 and Vietnam?

I suggest you seek some psychiatric help before the forum doctors will sort you out.

[kwiz117]

Since when did presentday 26 yearold Sri Lankans fight in WW2 and Vietnam?

I suggest you seek some psychiatric help before the forum doctors will sort you out.

So you put the Hat..

BTW..I am 29

[JemJem]

Guys, stop your mindless personal attacks here.

Let's hope the British guy, Mr. Bigley, shall be released soon. Of course the Iraqi war was an unjust war but this guy has no fault and does not deserve all this.

It is never an ideal thing to negotiate with terrorists but think of the pain the guy and his family/friends are going through at the moment.

Have a heart......stop your selfish egos get in the way.

And...please stop the militarist crapp, IamMaiC.

Jem

[kwiz117]

Guys, stop your mindless personal attacks here.

Jem..it was not a personal attack.. just kidding..

[IamMaiC]

If i was a contractor  I'm carrying a gun with me at all times.

If I was Mr. Bigley I wished anything to be done what could save my life.

Just rules, paradigmas, mutual agreements, personal opinions, institutional stubbornness, so called strenght, so called wisdom or logic, are in the way to let Mr. Bigley live his old days in Thailand with his wife and family.

I know the easiest way is to blame the victim, Mr. IamMaiC. It helps to silence the own conscience. One doesn't have to feel sorry, to feel bad.

He should have shot himself you say. Because you, as you want us to believe, would have done. Problem solved.

Go one step further and you might come close to blaming Mr. Bigley himself for being kidnapped.

Can't we just say that we want Mr. Bigley back alive?

That we cope with everything that comes later at a later moment?

But at this moment Mr. Bigley fights for his life. For me nothing else can count on a moment like this.

We know that torture and rape occurs in the prisons, that's why fanatic Islamic fighters already tried to bomb the women prison. To kill the women by themselves to save their honor. That is the way they think.

Turn things around Mr. IamMaiC: Think about having a sister or your mother in an prison run by fanatic islamic rebels. And that you would know that they could be tortured or raped at any moment. The moment you light a sigarette another sigarette could be estinguished on the body of your beloved one.

Wouldn't you consider blackmail an acceptable way to trie to get them out?

Or would you smuggle in suicide tablets? Another way to get them out.

And if you were born in Iraq, dear Mr. IamMaiC, how could you be sure that you weren't one of the guys of the other side?

You sound like a strong person, a fighter for a good course, with no doubts about yourself, loyal to your country fellow men?

What more does one need to become a good or even fanatic patriot?

There are no 'if's' to consider. To many people died already. For ideas and concepts. 62 Years old. That's when life starts.

Sure your gonna plead for your life!!! I would also if i couldn't take my own life but don't u understand that is what these snakes want, to show the man pleading for his life.

I am not blaming him He knew the risks going to work over there I knew the risks also But i was there as a soldier. I needed the mind set that i might be killed during a battle. I know it's sad to say but if you don't keep it in your head then you will be killed, fear makes sure you don't do something stupid

I would love to see him freed but what is the cost if that does happen?? another company told to leave iraq because their helping the americans? the iraqi people want a better life some have told me so but even they don't know how to go about it. they have been beaten down for so long some have lost the power of seeing the best possible future for themselves.

My mother already told me she would also die if she were captured by the animals she would kill herself I live in the states Who knows if we will have another nightmare day like 9/11 but what do u do cower until that day comes!!!

I wasn't born in iraq actually i was born in thailand. so i can't answer your question of how i would feel if i was on the iraq side. I am a good patriot because i love my country and if god forbid the enemy were to come to the states and start fighting us then they will die for thier cause.

I feel for the british man how do u know their not holding a machine gun at him so he can make that plea for his life. he knew the risks that's all i'm saying.

[IamMaiC]

Guys, stop your mindless personal attacks here.

Let's hope the British guy, Mr. Bigley, shall be released soon. Of course the Iraqi war was an unjust war but this guy has no fault and does not deserve all this.

It is never an ideal thing to negotiate with terrorists but think of the pain the guy and his family/friends are going through at the moment.

Have a heart......stop your selfish egos get in the way.

And...please stop the militarist crapp, IamMaiC.

Jem

ohhh he didn't deserve this of course then why do he go there to help the iraqi people while helping himself yeah he's going through pain and you don't think i was going through it also he was relatively safe I was shot at everyday I wish i had a nice apartment to reside in while i was in iraq. and i am not stopping my opinion for anyone espacially you

i have a heart a rather large one i am not a military robot but i was proud of what i did and will continue to do if called again if you don't like it fine and it's "militaristic crap" get it right.

[Limbo]

Thank you for giving us an idea of the mind-setting of a USA National Reserve week-end soldier, its widths and limitations.

Where did you learn to write?

[Wolfie]

Guys, stop your mindless personal attacks here.

Thats the only comment i agree 100% with, on this thread.

Its a sensative subject, and theres some interesting view points being put across, but can we try to keep it a bit more civil please.

Thanks

[IamMaiC]

Thank you for giving us an idea of the mind-setting of a USA National Reserve week-end soldier, its widths and limitations.

Where did you learn to write?

Sir i was in the regular army before becoming a week end soldier Some weekend soldiers have already died in afghanistan and iraq I am still a soldier so it's only for a weekend and two weeks in the summer Some people can't even do that. have you ever had the nerve to put on a uniform?? it's not easy believe me even after you make it through basic training and are allowed to call yourself a soldier, it has it's pit falls and it has it's rewards. I don't care what people think of me now, but i stood tall when i had to have you ever done that?

[simon43]

I started this thread just before I took the overnight plane from Bangkok to London. In those 12 hours, the 2nd American has apparently been executed.

I've just logged on from an internet cafe in London, and read the compete thread. What a bunch of tossers there are on this forum whose only interest seems to be in playing backroom politics.

My thread was about the sadness of this situation, and especially concerned with the fact that these guys have Thai wives waiting for them back in LoS.

I have little interest in politics, and the ramblings on this thread wil change nothing, but let's have some compassion for their wives/girlfriends, who have lost/will lose a husband and breadwinner.

[Storekeeper]

Since when did presentday 26 yearold Sri Lankans fight in WW2 and Vietnam?

I suggest you seek some psychiatric help before the forum doctors will sort you out.

So you put the Hat..

BTW..I am 29

And you once were a man and now you're a katoey being chased across Nana plaza by Harry Palmer

[Storekeeper]

I tried to make that point with kwiz117 yesterday...who is lurking in this thread as we speak. Just watch...he'll take this to another level any moment.

Limbo,

Hate to say I told you so

[IamMaiC]

I started this thread just before I took the overnight plane from Bangkok to London. In those 12 hours, the 2nd American has apparently been executed.

I've just logged on from an internet cafe in London, and read the compete thread. What a bunch of tossers there are on this forum whose only interest seems to be in playing backroom politics.

My thread was about the sadness of this situation, and especially concerned with the fact that these guys have Thai wives waiting for them back in LoS.

I have little interest in politics, and the ramblings on this thread wil change nothing, but let's have some compassion for their wives/girlfriends, who have lost/will lose a husband and breadwinner.

well it is sad sir but no one forced them to go there true? I feel for their families now just like i did for thanom johnson. but that's all you can do i have said a prayer privately for them

[britmaveric]

JemJem- Unjust War in your eyes.

Limbo- do not negotiate with terrorists I sympathize with my fellow countrymen, but this opens the door for kidnappings everywhere and same horrendous tactics.

Personally they all knew the risks of working there and I wouldn't do so unless I was surrounded my military day/night and even that isn't 100% protection. I think this is going to end with another head lobbed off and I don't believe releasing Dr Germ and Miss Anthrax has anything to do with this crisis.