Samak Sundaravej was elected

[Tony Clifton]

They're always whining about invisible hands and yet, they are the one who's hands are always doing something else below the table or behind their backs. When they get caught then whine like little children that someone else did it or that it's not fair. If Thai people can't learn anything with this bunch they never will.

[aaaaaa]

here is more details about Bangkok Post and other Thai newspaper role in instigation the events of 6th Oct 1976 :

A deliberate campaign of misinformation was a carried out by the newspaper Dao Sayam and the Tank Corps Radio... [Samak allegedly was supervising this Radio] The English language newspaper, the Bangkok Post was also used in this campaign of misinformation.

The editorial board of the Bangkok Post today maintain that they had no part in the campaign of misinformation and

that they were merely used by right-wing elements. Nevertheless, the paper never had the courage nor enough commitment to printing the truth to deny the false reports about the students, either in early October 1976, or during the trial of innocent student leaders in the following two years.

(from : “Slamming the door to beat the cat” Crushing the Thai Left on the 6th Oct 1976)

Bangkok post should be ashamed themselves first for denying their involvement at that time - before trying to shame Samak.

if they were so adherent to truth, they would've acted more like guy from Channel 9 TV :

The director of Channel 9 state-owned TV station, Sampasiri Wirayasiri, observed what was happening at first hand that morning. “It was our sons and daughters that were being murdered. How could they do such things? I didn’t have a gun. My only way to fight this injustice was to film what was happening, so everyone could see the truth” (I.T.V. 1999a).

Sampasiri was sacked from his job immediately afterwards.

[Plus]

Bangkok Post went to the court with these allegations a few years ago and they won.

Or maybe it was a different case - something about posting a picture of a hanging student and saying that he was anti-royalist. Anyway, they cleared their name.

[John K]

Well you have to give the PPP time yet as they are new and just getting their footing. You can clearly see they are not up to speed. I will give them until the end of the month and then they should be breaking the law daily. As you can clearly see now there are gaps between violations.

[aaaaaa]

hmmm, cleared their name? how?

by proving that they didn't publish any materials that time

or that they silently allowed the truth distortion / lie ?

these are accusations against them which to some people, witnesses and participants in those events, are still valid.

it is really interesting to know the details of that court case - any references?

for the moment, the only thing I could find was this:

Introduction to English Language Newspapers

Many longtime expats note that in past years the Bangkok Post was known for choosing sides in political power struggles, whereby they would predict the winner and suck up to them as a public relations proxy, rather than as a responsible newspaper. Most of these expats say, however, that the Post has cleaned up its act considerably in the past 10 years after The Nation emerged. The Nation was founded partly by defectors from the Bangkok Post.

There is one incident in particular which is very salient in Thai history, which goes back to a popular uprising in the 1970s in which the Bangkok Post was allegedly instrumental in a disinformation effort to discredit the anti-dictator student movement in the eyes of the general public. It involved a front page photo which was changed ... In the year 2001, The Nation raised this issue against the Post, in an article in The Nation, and the Post sued for libel, saying it wasn't true. In the judgement, there were several points of contention, and it was ruled in favor of the The Nation on all points except one: that The Nation should have given the Bangkok Post more of a chance to present their side of the story. Both newspapers ran stories the next day claiming victory in court.

well, it doesn't look like a name clearing - more like a feud with rival newspaper. and even in that - according to this reference, court judgment was in favor of Nation than Bkk Post

however I do not think so Bkk Post will try to sue Thongchai for his raising those questions, or Ji Unpakorn for mentioning them in his essay(s):

firstly because both those guys are too well prepared with plenty of facts, and being and academicians, they know how to present facts, evidences, references and be responsible for their own words and especially such a serious statements. in other words - such people won't be so careless as to make statements or raise issues and questions without being confidenct in their ability to back up such words.

2nd because Thongchai was of of the student leaders during the whole event, and who's later spent 2 years in jails and Ji Unpakorn is the son of the rector of Thammasat, who was forced to flee to UK and died there in exile, because he's been accused of being communist, although the truth is - he has tried to prevent that massacre and urged students to disperse before the bloody mess happened.

3rd - because according to the Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkok_Post) "The Bangkok Post, by contrast, employs several former student activists, the so-called October people" - and those guys won't try to fight with fellow "October men", I guess.

so, if more details of that case could be provided or whatever other attempt, successful or not, to "clear their name" - it would be interesting to know ! particularly the answers to those WHO and WHY questions raised in Bangkok Post's address. otherwise till those questions answered (if ever at all) - I doubt that it can be said they've cleared their name.

[sriracha john]

Samak: I'm a lucky PM

Samak Sundaravej yesterday portrayed himself as a lucky prime minister who got the job by chance. "I admit I became prime minister because of the September 19 coup," he said.

Samak was addressing Buddhist preceptors at Wat Sam Phraya.

He said the December election returned the country to political normalcy and that the coup was a mistake and a costly lesson. He said his leadership would have three pillars of unity - nation, religion and monarchy.

- The Nation

[steveromagnino]

From my knowledge, some people in Bangkok know - certainly many of the educated 'Bangkok elite' so called (who apparently is just about anyone that doesn't like PPP ;-) are aware of what went on. Having some slight connection to the privvy councillors of that time, it is not surprising to many that the amount of information that has come out has been so limited if what some of them say is indeed true.

However, upcountry is entirely a different matter. Mostly, their impression is that a bunch of communists came in, were threatening the system and they were somewhat dealt with fairly.

Hence....when the issue gets brought up, by responding this way, Samak appears, to people upcountry, to be fair, confident and not a communist - we must recall that during this period Thailand received a lot of aid and swallowed the worldwide fear of communism hook line and sinker - like the south of Thailand (where again most of the North and Northeast probably feel the extremist southerners deserve what they are getting at the moment) it is an issue of perception, and certain people are masters of manipulating the information that is fed to the masses.... Upcountry, being all brash and arrogant like the Thaksin model has been proven to convince people that you know what you are doing. Kind of like how many truck drivers like that crazy Tony from Scarface - he was also all tough talking and whatever innit.

While we may roll our eyes at each additional f&*k up and moronic minister looking after themselves in the PPP cabinet, the number of educated informed voters who don't like this bunch of clowns is about the same as the number of voters who feel this is the return of their hero who will give them stuff and care again like last time. The ones in the middle voted for coalition partners who are all in line with the PPP.

Just as Thaksin looked like a self serving egotistical idiot many many times (Liverpool, hubs, APEC, flip flopping about quiting, organising his own cheering squads and getting goons to rough people up that didn't like him, giving his son favouritism with how cum entertainment, giving his wife favrouable land deals, getting his son off cheating at uni, etc etc) and it was all publicised - we all only see what we want to see. And so the memories of the crazy claims gets forgotten and we just remember that this was the PM that could control the price of deisel and give us free taxis and cows. Great guy.

There are plenty of rich educated Bangkokians that still think, goodness knows why, that Thaksin is the best PM Thailand has ever had!!!! And so with such short memories is it any wonder that things like 1976 get forgotten?

Mai tong kit mahk. Kit mahk bort hua.

[sriracha john]

His belly is like Pinocchio's nose when he tells lies...

Samak Sundaravej

1970s Activists Condemn PM for Distorting 1976 Massacre Death Toll

Former student activists during the October 6, 1976 uprising against the government yesterday issued a letter condemning Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej for his attempt to distort the truth about the number of students killed during the massacre.

Earlier, Samak told CNN reporters during a press interview that only one person was killed during the 1976 student massacre, though in fact 48 people were brutally killed in the demonstration.

On February 13th, Amorn Amornrattananont, former secretary of the Student Federation of Thailand called a meeting at the October 14 Monument to discuss taking action against the outspoken Prime Minister for his intension to mislead the public into thinking that only one person had died during the massacre.

On Sunday, a group of former student activists called the October 6 Heroes Relatives Committee and Network for the Protection of October Activists Spirit had organized a conference at the October 14 Monument titled "Facts of the October 6, 1976 Event".

Among the conference organizers were former activists of the 1970s, comprising of Veera Somkwamkid, Secretary-General of the Anti-Corruption Network, Pichian Amnartvoraprasert, a member of the Matchima Thipatai Party, Wasan Sitthiket, leader of the Artists Party and Suthachai Yimprasert, a lecturer of Chulalongkorn University.

The group of former activists cooperatively issued a letter to condemn the Prime Minister for his attempt to whitewash the truth of the massacres death toll with foreign reporters. Reportedly, crowds of students and members of the general public had attended the conference.

- Thailand Outlook

[sriracha john]

From the creators of "Invisible Hand" comes the new play action figure "Silent Power"....

PM:Silent power wants to stop government power

The Prime Minister says silent power is attempting to damage his government, at the same time blaming the media for not bringing the truth to the public's eyes

During the TV program "Samak Talk", hosted by Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej who is supervising the Defense Minister post, broadcasted the second time, the premier gave strong comments on the press by referring to the media's reports on many topics which include the government's 30% Reserve Fund Policy, the State-enterprise Committee, comprising of 111 former executives of the disbanded Thai Rak Thai Party.

Furthermore, the prime minister states in regard with the news about the red card penalty case of House Speaker Yongyuth Tiyapairat, who was former deputy party leader to the People Power Party that the press, presenting the news are lacking of fact reliance.

He says that the news about Yongyuth's case and also the case, involving a yellow card penalty will be given to the PPP merely aim to destroy good image of his government.

Meanwhile, the prime minister expresses his thankful message through regarding Government's Public Relations Department Director-General Pramoat Rattavinit gave explanation to the public about the cancellation of a radio program, hosted by well-known academic Jermsak Pinthong and broadcasted on FM 105 Wisdom radio channel.

He says that the government faced strong criticism over the matter as the public does not know the truth about the reason that led to a cancellation of Jermsak's radio program earlier.

The Prime minister met his schoolmates for lunch after finishing the TV program host. At 2 pm., he presided over the Buddhists' Makabucha celebration, hosted today at the Lumpini garden.

Later the prime minister met with his party's team at the party's headquarter.

Today a petition letter was file to the prime minister for a case of male sufferer Dilok Tansathitikorn, claiming that the suffered a case, involving with authorities of the Chacherngsao Legal Execution Office.

The male sufferer says that, by the court's order, he lost his right to gain money of more than 1.9 million baht from his debtors.

- Thailand Outlook

[John K]

I have already given up on anything truthful coming out of Samak’s mouth unless by accident. There are several news clippings that reflect the accidents in question. I think SJ summarized them a few weeks back. I am proud to be a proxy and so on.

They are clearly starting to squirm and putting as much spin as they can on it.

[Frotting]

All this is very worrying. It's unusual to see a newly-appointed government of any country struggling like this so soon after kick-off.

This has all the precursors of Thailand being a 'failed' country - like some others have pointed out earlier. Does anybody else, like me, feel that bloodshed on a scale larger than the 1970s could be not too far away. Is Thailand ripe for UN involvement? Not that the UN have achieved great success elsewhere when they've had to step in.

What also worries me is that this shit-wit in charge doesn't seem to worry about Malaysia, who have recently doubled their forces on the southern border (reputedly to prevent illegal traffic - yeah right). Thailand have already pissed off the Saudis and the new PM doesn't seem too bothered about upsetting Muslims in general.

My view is that Thailand is failing, which is strange given that of all SEA they have never been colonised by a European nation. Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei are doing well and can be considered 'stable'. Vietnam, Cambodia, & Laos have had their birth pains and as expected will take time to settle down. You would think that Thailand should be well out in front by now. Instead it is going backwards.

[Old Man River]

From my knowledge, some people in Bangkok know - certainly many of the educated 'Bangkok elite' so called (who apparently is just about anyone that doesn't like PPP ;-) are aware of what went on. Having some slight connection to the privvy councillors of that time, it is not surprising to many that the amount of information that has come out has been so limited if what some of them say is indeed true.

However, upcountry is entirely a different matter. Mostly, their impression is that a bunch of communists came in, were threatening the system and they were somewhat dealt with fairly.

The problem I have had in understanding what prompted Samak's comments is that everyone I know (or at least I think everyone) is well versed with the events on Oct. 6, 1976. It is hard for me to realize that there may be millions of people in Thailand, many of them voters, who have no understanding of what happened that day.

Thailand has always been a patriarchal society where people want to believe those in power. However, on this one, I had thought they could see right through these lies.

It is scary to think just how many people in Thailand are in the dark on these issues that so many died for.

[jumnien]

From my knowledge, some people in Bangkok know - certainly many of the educated 'Bangkok elite' so called (who apparently is just about anyone that doesn't like PPP ;-) are aware of what went on. Having some slight connection to the privvy councillors of that time, it is not surprising to many that the amount of information that has come out has been so limited if what some of them say is indeed true.

However, upcountry is entirely a different matter. Mostly, their impression is that a bunch of communists came in, were threatening the system and they were somewhat dealt with fairly.

The problem I have had in understanding what prompted Samak's comments is that everyone I know (or at least I think everyone) is well versed with the events on Oct. 6, 1976. It is hard for me to realize that there may be millions of people in Thailand, many of them voters, who have no understanding of what happened that day.

Thailand has always been a patriarchal society where people want to believe those in power. However, on this one, I had thought they could see right through these lies.

It is scary to think just how many people in Thailand are in the dark on these issues that so many died for.

And even scarier that many folks on this forum have defended the murderous military thugs who dismantled democracy on Sept. 19, 2006.

[Abrak]

What worries me is that Thailand has entered the dark ages in terms of economic progress. If you look at the times in the 1980s/90s when the economy was growing at 7%+ it was being driven by foreign direct investment. The largest employers here are not domestic - saha union or siam cement - but international - western digital and seagate.

I really cannot see FDI returning to Thailand in the current political climate for the foreseeable future. (It was likely to be tough even in a stable environment with competition from Vietnam and China etc.)

It should be remembered that talk of 4% growth in Thailand is anemic - the working population is growing at about 3% - so 4% is the equivalent to 1-2% growth in a western industrialized country.

[Plus]

murderous military thugs who dismantled democracy

It was a bloodless coup, if you don't believe me, you can check it out on wikipedia or in any news archive.

>>>

Last year saw something like 30% growth in FDI.

[Old Man River]

What worries me is that Thailand has entered the dark ages in terms of economic progress. If you look at the times in the 1980s/90s when the economy was growing at 7%+ it was being driven by foreign direct investment. The largest employers here are not domestic - saha union or siam cement - but international - western digital and seagate.

I really cannot see FDI returning to Thailand in the current political climate for the foreseeable future. (It was likely to be tough even in a stable environment with competition from Vietnam and China etc.)

It should be remembered that talk of 4% growth in Thailand is anemic - the working population is growing at about 3% - so 4% is the equivalent to 1-2% growth in a western industrialized country.

For all the things that this government is not, one of the things they are setting out to do is jump start the economy. They have already met with long term Japanese investors who have voiced their opinions about the military junta's proposed FBA laws. Time will tell on how successful they will be in competing against VN, Malaysia etc. for FDI, but they are cognizant of these issues.

[A_Traveller]

So as I said originally, back to the '90s we go, with all the concomitant failures. The Japanese will continue to treat Thailand as a non-technology transfer location.

Regards

[Plus]

Well, it could be, they are delivering their policy platform in parlament today. So far I don't remember them offering any specifics on FBA.

Don't forget that restrictions were very popular, there will be opposition.

[A_Traveller]

^ Let's recall that the FBA amendments were withdrawn when the then parliament wanted to make the restrictions tougher.

Regards

[jumnien]

murderous military thugs who dismantled democracy

It was a bloodless coup, if you don't believe me, you can check it out on wikipedia or in any news archive.

>>>

Last year saw something like 30% growth in FDI.

I suppose you are one of the few that believe Samak when he said that Sonthi's Army only killed one Thai citizen in 1976?

[A_Traveller]

^ Sunrise, despite your attempts to rewrite history, the 2006 {to which the original quote from you was reflecting} coup was bloodless. To compare the events to '76 in such a manner is foolish.

Regards

/edit { }

[A_Traveller]

And then :-

A defensive Samak Sundaravej made sure he got his message through by swearing before parliamentary members this morning that he was not involved in the October 6, 1976. “If I am not telling the truth, may I face destruction and ill-fortune for the rest of my life, but if I am telling the truth may success and good-fortune come my way,” he said. ... The violence took place on the grounds of Sanam Luang in Bangkok after leftist students protested against the return to Thailand of Field Marshall Thanom Kittikachorn. Dozens were believed to have been killed by the Thai military and police units. Mr Samak was at the scene as deputy interior minister. His enemies have accused him of playing a part in provoking the violence.

Further he denied accusations made by Mr Abhisit that he had interfered with the media and was responsible for closing down a newspaper.

Regards

LINK

[Tony Clifton]

Invisible hands, silent power, this is the same old crybaby whining heard from TRT under Thaksin that dark powers were working against them. Proof that Thaksin still wants his loot and is willing to further the country with that kind of talk, Samak only has to read his speeches written in London or Hong Kong without ever naming anyone but those word associations and imaginary enemies.

Circus clowns.

[happyjackthe4th]

Tough Shit , it's not our country, so who are we to interfere ?

[Plus]

It took Samak less than two weeks to break up with Thaksin and start doing his own thing.

It might not be long vefore he realises he's not good for this reconciliation thing and running the country thing, too. As Bangkok governor he simply withdrawn himself from doing anything when it got tough. Despite his big mouth, the man gives up easily.

He'll resign soon, or let someone else to take over his active duties, he's too old for this shit.

He'll be thankful to anyone who puts him out of his misery - courts, Thaksin, military, as long as he believes he won.

[Tony Clifton]

It took Samak less than two weeks to break up with Thaksin and start doing his own thing.

It might not be long vefore he realises he's not good for this reconciliation thing and running the country thing, too. As Bangkok governor he simply withdrawn himself from doing anything when it got tough. Despite his big mouth, the man gives up easily.

He'll resign soon, or let someone else to take over his active duties, he's too old for this shit.

He'll be thankful to anyone who puts him out of his misery - courts, Thaksin, military, as long as he believes he won.

I don't buy this infighting between Thaksin and Samak for one second, nothing but an act to try and erase the accusations of PPP holding TRT proxies all over the place.

[Maizefarmer]

er.......... did I hear somone say history repeats its self.

[sriracha john]

uh oh... he's losing it...

SAMAK ON 1976 CRACKDOWN

'Damned if I was involved'

New PM erupts in Parliament after opposition questions him about involvement in October 6 massacre

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej swore in Parliament yesterday that if he was involved in the 1976 fatal crackdown on protesters at Thammasat University, he would be damned.

A war of words was sparked between Samak and the opposition during the government's declaration in the House of its policy agenda.

Samak blew his top after opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva demanded that Samak not allow a repeat of what happened to the media after the October 6, 1976 incident, when Samak assumed the Interior Minister's post and a number of newspapers were shut down.

"We are obviously witnessing media intimidation in the removal of Chirmsak Pinthong's radio programme for criticising Samak about his [CNN] interview over the incident," Abhisit said.

Democrat Party Chief Adviser Chuan Leekpai yesterday attacked Samak for lacking gratitude by jumping ship from the Democrats when the party was at its lowest ebb.

Chuan said the PM and several Cabinet members began their political careers with the Democrat Party. "I admire people who appreciate the party and its merits and I condemn people who do not have any gratitude and talk badly about the party."

Chuan said media faced subtle interference via business mechanisms. "The media is intimidated in that, if they present news which shows opposition to the government, their business will not survive," he said.

Samak complained that his political opponents always used his role in the October 1976 incident to discredit him in every election campaign he has fought. He said his opponents always accused him of being a murderer with blood-stained hands.

"During the gubernatorial election race, I was verbally bullied that I was a murderer. But I won over a million votes and my opponent got only 500,000 votes. Has there been anyone in Thailand winning over one million votes [in the poll for Bangkok governor]? There is only Samak," he said.

He said he told CNN that during the clamp-down on students he was at Sanam Luang and he saw one person hit and burnt by a rubber bullet.

"Every foreigner is interested in asking this question. A female reporter from Al Jazeera, who was beautiful and not even 30, asked me that question, so I asked her back 'how old are you?' and 'who told you to ask me?' " he said.

* My links to the 2-part Al Jazeera interview videos are here *

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1815497

Samak gave an interview to CNN earlier this month in which he claimed only one person died in the notorious massacre, in which more than 40 were allegedly killed. The PM said he was not involved in the brutal crackdown on the students.

October 6 activists have cried foul over Samak's statement, accusing him of distorting the facts. They say the PM played a crucial role by inciting hatred between leftists and conservatives. Samak was the host of an Army radio show and accused the students of being communists who aimed to destroy the country's revered institutions.

- The Nation

[aaaaaa]

From my knowledge, some people in Bangkok know - certainly many of the educated 'Bangkok elite' so called (who apparently is just about anyone that doesn't like PPP ;-) are aware of what went on. Having some slight connection to the privvy councillors of that time, it is not surprising to many that the amount of information that has come out has been so limited if what some of them say is indeed true.

However, upcountry is entirely a different matter. Mostly, their impression is that a bunch of communists came in, were threatening the system and they were somewhat dealt with fairly.....

yes, some people have heard of and know something about it - that there was some bloodshed

BUT

they do not know the details or the background, not to full extent

for example today my wife was asking me about it after watching news on Thai TV - what and why

and when I briefly explained to her what I've read on net - she was genuinely surprised that she didn't know all the history of that event, how it has started, why students were gathering for protests etc. even though this is actually very superficial outline which is given in Wiki and in most articles on this matter, EVEN NOW, 32 years later

the Investigation committee was set up in 2001, which has done a lot of research and certain conferences held.

but still 7 years after that, many people do not really know everything. like for example the facts about the situation in Bangkok that time, when ultra-right paramilitary groups were throwing bombs and shooting at any student gatherings and how it was unsafe - all the atmosphere that preluded those events.

and then the event itself - all the gruesome details, savage barbaric brutal violence towards the students...

that's why the remaining victims, friends and relatives of that bloody massacre are so outraged by Samak's denial.

and it is not just about Samak - it is about the whole forgetful attitude of nowadays people and especially those in power and elite which these "October people" are so upset about. as Thongchai pointed out:

Thai historian Thongchai Winichakul of the University of Wisconsin, Madison, wrote an article condemning Samak for distorting the facts and urging former student activists and others to go beyond the political agenda in criticising Samak.

"Going beyond Samak is the way to make the criticism of him worthwhile for the October 6 cause and to distinguish our criticism of Samak from those opportunists who attack him for the benefit of the anti-Thaksin political camp which includes the real criminals of October 6," he wrote. Thongchai was among student leaders who were arrested and detained for two years.

that's why these people now want the truth to be known - this is at very least:

STUDENT MASSACRE

Historians reject PM's 'distortions'

Thammasat University will stage discussion of tragedy to put record straight on 'unlearned history'

Published on February 18, 2008

Historians will hold a discussion in Thai and English to counter what they call Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej's distortion of the facts over the October 6, 1976 student massacre.

Akkharaphong Khamkhun, a lecturer in Southeast Asian Studies at Thammasat Univer-sity, said a panel discussion on "From October 14th, to the 6th, and Bloody May: The Unlearned Lessons of Our History" will be held tomorrow afternoon from 1pm at Thammasat University's Tha Phrachan Campus.

(from Nation article today)

The panel is organized not only to counter the PM's distortion of the facts of the October 6, 1976 student massacre which took place at the campus but also to encourage Thai society to learn more about the incident, he said.

"It's not only about Samak's distortion, but we see that the incident has been unlearned history in Thai society for over three decades," Akkharaphong said.

"The only thing that can heal us is to tell the truth to society and correct history

by accepting the status and cruel truth of the October 6, 1976 incident."

but actually they are planning more than simply discussion, they want official investigations into this matter:

Former student activists protest at Parliament on Monday,

calling for an official investigation into PM Samak Sundaravej's

alleged 'distortion' of facts about the massacre at Thammasat University in October 1976.

will this investigation happen or not - at least creating more public awareness about those events (not only one day 6th Oct, but next few years or persecutions that followed) will help Thai people a lot in understanding the value price (paid in blood and lives) of democratic changes which eventually occurred during last 30+ years after that.

[chownah]

Democrat Party Chief Adviser Chuan Leekpai yesterday attacked Samak for lacking gratitude by jumping ship from the Democrats when the party was at its lowest ebb.

The real power in the Democrat Pary emerges.....elect a Democrat as PM and Chuan is who will pull the strings.

By the way....does anyone know what Toxin was doing in 1976?

Chownah