Samak Sundaravej was elected

[h90]

Well, thanks for bringing the historical cruelty of the Thai military up. The following passage from the esteemed Mr. Ungpakorn hints at what we are discussing. I'll let his words speak for themselves:

"Thirty years ago, agitation by the extreme right through such media outlets as the Tank Corps radio station and Dao Sayam newspaper, resulted in the utmost barbarism at Thammasat University on October 6, 1976, when right-wing forces and the military set on students, hanging them, setting them afire and committing other acts of savagery. Therefore the recent swearing of an oath of allegiance to "Nation Religion and King" by the so-called People’s Alliance for Democracy at Thammasat is tantamount to spitting on the memories of those who died and suffered in the bloody events."

Regardless, I was curious if you found any other passages of Mr. Ungpakorn's respected wisdom worthy of comment. I am really enjoying our free exchange of ideas and viewpoints. Thank you for your participation!

.

Thirty years ago :D And don't forget Samaks part in this story....

[jumnien]

I believe Dr. Ungpakorn reference to "the PAD spitting on the memories of those who died and suffered in the bloody events" was aimed at the events of the last few months.

[jitagon]

Anyone is free to answer the question as stated - "In your home country, I'm sure there are some politicians who have taken a few liberties while in office. Do you really support your military taking over the government by force and re-writing the constitution?

There will be no demands that you answer the question. This is a free forum after all. If you don't want to answer the question, then don't. No need to get defensive.

[sriracha john]

I believe Dr. Ungpakorn reference to "the PAD spitting on the memories of those who died and suffered in the bloody events" was aimed at the events of the last few months.

Where did he obtain a PhD?

[A_Traveller]

^ May be in error but I think that would have been in the UK. His know his father received his Ph.D. from the London School of Economics.

I note sometimes he's referred to as assistant professor or associate professor. These are two different academic ranks, associate being the higher, though both traditionally require the holder to be educated to doctoral level.

Regards

Edited May 27, 2008 by A_Traveller

[Plus]

Doesn't matter, as long as both "assistant" and "associate" have "ass" in the title.

Giles provides a valuable "alternative view", I just wish he wasn't so dogmatic, wasn't engrossed in his marxism, sometimes it's like he speaks a different language - words that have positive meaning for the rest of us have extremely negative meanings for him and vice versa.

The country has been in great turmoil for several years but all he talks about is some utopian communist ideal and how no one in this country is fit to live in it.

Leftism will never take off in Thailand as long as it has wackos like Giles carrying the torch.

[hammered]

Chang Noi has an interesting piece relating things to a Mask Play.

http://www.geocities.com/changnoi2/khon.htm

[Ricardo]

Interesting to note that, Samak has now been so side-lined, that this thread has had not one single post for 10 days !

How are the mighty fallen.

Or did he die, and nobody noticed ?

[jumnien]

Interesting to note that, Samak has now been so side-lined, that this thread has had not one single post for 10 days !

How are the mighty fallen.

Or did he die, and nobody noticed ?

There is a big dilemma. Most of the militarists on TV backed the junta and Abhisit and thought that Samak's victory was illegitimate. Now the Abhisit is backing the PPP as the legitimate government, the militarists are sitting stunned in silence. They will no doubt be railing against Abhisit, or saying he didn't mean waht he said.

[Supaporn]

same military that slaughtered so many students in the last coup.

Last coup (I presume 1992) didn't see a slaughter of the students.

Instead it was PAD's Chamlong and his followers who were jailed and killed.

Students were main victims of 1976 coupand both Samak and the Interior Minister Chalerm were on the military side. In fact Samak openly denies that anyone was killed at all.

>>>

Giles is as confused as ever, feeling sidelined because his anti-monarchy, anti-capitalist agenda is of no interest to anyone anymore.

Are you saying that there was no slaughter in '92??

[sriracha john]

well, Samak did do something..... He stopped a program to provide affordable rice to the poor....as apparently they can now all afford it.

Government suspends blue flag rice campaign

Samak government suspended on Friday the blue-flag rice campaign which provided cheaper prices on rice to people.

Deputy Prime Minister Surapong Suebwonglee said the decision came as the rice situation already turned to normal, meaning the prices of rice were already down.

- The Nation

[Plus]

same military that slaughtered so many students in the last coup.

Last coup (I presume 1992) didn't see a slaughter of the students.

Instead it was PAD's Chamlong and his followers who were jailed and killed.

Students were main victims of 1976 coupand both Samak and the Interior Minister Chalerm were on the military side. In fact Samak openly denies that anyone was killed at all.

>>>

Giles is as confused as ever, feeling sidelined because his anti-monarchy, anti-capitalist agenda is of no interest to anyone anymore.

Are you saying that there was no slaughter in '92??

Read it again.

[sriracha john]

Villagers in Phrae gather outside a market to condemn Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej for supporting the proposed Kaeng Sua Ten Dam.

Villagers dare PM

Around 300 villagers in Phrae's Song district yesterday staged a protest against Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej over his statement supporting the construction of the controversial Kaeng Sua Ten Dam.

The group challenged Samak to stop talking about the project for the rest of his life if there were more than 50,000 teak trees in a forest reserve area, which would be submerged if the dam was built.

Samak said recently there were fewer than 50,000 teak trees and three stupid peacocks living in the area, while only NGOs were against the dam project and the villagers welcomed it.

Seng Khwanyuen said all villagers would be ready to evacuate if there were fewer than 50,000 teak trees after a count was conducted.

Another group leader said Samak should come to see the area with his own eyes and that his statement was based on his lack of true knowledge about the area and the impact after the dam was built.

- Daily Express / June 9, 2008

[sriracha john]

Not only are the villagers upset with Samak...

Poll: Popularity of PM Samak in Bangkok very low

BANGKOK, June 8 (TNA) - The popularity of Thai Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej among the citizenry of the capital region of Bangkok and the metropolitan area stood at only less that one-third -- 28.9 per cent -- of all respondents in a new survey conducted by the ABAC Poll.

Noppadol Kannikar, director of the Assumption University public opinion assessment tool, said the survey, conducted among 3,338 people in 18 provinces nationwide, showed that Samak's popularity in the capital region came in at 28.9 per cent, a marked improvement from the 21.4 per cent registered in a survey taken during May, while slightly over half -- 50.8 per cent of people living upcountry -- still support him.

However, similar numbers, or nearly half those polled -- 46.5 per cent and 46.2 per cent of Bangkok and upcountry residents respectively -- said they supported the continuing protest by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) calling for Samak's resignation --provided that the protesters did not create chaos in society and bring hardship to the public.

The PAD has been demonstrating since May 25.

Noppadol said the survey showed that if the PAD could hold the demonstration peacefully, it could gain more support from the public.

[Old Man River]

Interesting to note that, Samak has now been so side-lined, that this thread has had not one single post for 10 days !

How are the mighty fallen.

Or did he die, and nobody noticed ?

There is a big dilemma. Most of the militarists on TV backed the junta and Abhisit and thought that Samak's victory was illegitimate. Now the Abhisit is backing the PPP as the legitimate government, the militarists are sitting stunned in silence. They will no doubt be railing against Abhisit, or saying he didn't mean waht he said.

I would imagine the "militarists of TV" do understand the issues and what Abhisit is doing. You obviously don't. Read Bangkok Pundit's views on Abhisit's strategy and you will begin to see the tip of the iceberg. Then again, don't, and stay clueless. Your choice.

[marshbags]

Not only are the villagers upset with Samak...

Poll: Popularity of PM Samak in Bangkok very low

BANGKOK, June 8 (TNA) - The popularity of Thai Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej among the citizenry of the capital region of Bangkok and the metropolitan area stood at only less that one-third -- 28.9 per cent -- of all respondents in a new survey conducted by the ABAC Poll.

Noppadol Kannikar, director of the Assumption University public opinion assessment tool, said the survey, conducted among 3,338 people in 18 provinces nationwide, showed that Samak's popularity in the capital region came in at 28.9 per cent, a marked improvement from the 21.4 per cent registered in a survey taken during May, while slightly over half -- 50.8 per cent of people living upcountry -- still support him.

However, similar numbers, or nearly half those polled -- 46.5 per cent and 46.2 per cent of Bangkok and upcountry residents respectively -- said they supported the continuing protest by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) calling for Samak's resignation --provided that the protesters did not create chaos in society and bring hardship to the public.

The PAD has been demonstrating since May 25.

Noppadol said the survey showed that if the PAD could hold the demonstration peacefully, it could gain more support from the public.

Watch out for the infiltrating thugs of the PPP and other interested parties who, more to the point have much more to loose and will do their worst / utmost, to make it non peaceful.

There are protests now building up and taking place nationally, even the N.East is witnessing unrest " off the streets " on the economic front and it will continue to gather pace as the fallout of the down turn takes hold.

May i suggest the Government start making themselves accountable on the real issues of the day and start to demonstrate their loyalty to the electorate and not Thaksin and his coherts who still DNGAF on anything apart from saving their thieving, scrawny necks.

The consequences of not doing so are there for all to see, even a blind person.

marshbags

IMHO as always

Edited June 9, 2008 by marshbags

[hammered]

Not only are the villagers upset with Samak...

Poll: Popularity of PM Samak in Bangkok very low

BANGKOK, June 8 (TNA) - The popularity of Thai Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej among the citizenry of the capital region of Bangkok and the metropolitan area stood at only less that one-third -- 28.9 per cent -- of all respondents in a new survey conducted by the ABAC Poll.

Noppadol Kannikar, director of the Assumption University public opinion assessment tool, said the survey, conducted among 3,338 people in 18 provinces nationwide, showed that Samak's popularity in the capital region came in at 28.9 per cent, a marked improvement from the 21.4 per cent registered in a survey taken during May, while slightly over half -- 50.8 per cent of people living upcountry -- still support him.

However, similar numbers, or nearly half those polled -- 46.5 per cent and 46.2 per cent of Bangkok and upcountry residents respectively -- said they supported the continuing protest by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) calling for Samak's resignation --provided that the protesters did not create chaos in society and bring hardship to the public.

The PAD has been demonstrating since May 25.

Noppadol said the survey showed that if the PAD could hold the demonstration peacefully, it could gain more support from the public.

Watch out for the infiltrating thugs of the PPP and other interested parties who, more to the point have much more to loose and will do their worst / utmost, to make it non peaceful.

There are protests now building up and taking place nationally, even the N.East is witnessing unrest " off the streets " on the economic front and it will continue to gather pace as the fallout of the down turn takes hold.

May i suggest the Government start making themselves accountable on the real issues of the day and start to demonstrate their loyalty to the electorate and not Thaksin and his coherts who still DNGAF on anything apart from saving their thieving, scrawny necks.

The consequences of not doing so are there for all to see, even a blind person.

marshbags

IMHO as always

It does all raise a few questions:

Will the Samak government turn its attention to the economic problems facing all at the moment?

Are the Samak governemtn technically up to dealing with these problems if they try?

Will the PAD at some point turn its rallies into popularist rallies attacking the government's performance on the economic front?

Will the government be able to just continue giving into to every group that raises a demand and threatens to shut down highways?

Behind all the emotion of the charter/pro/anti Thaksin stuff there are rapidly rising isssues that affect all across politcal divides and to ignore these would probably be more suicidal for the government than allowing the PAD to protest ad infinitum.

[sriracha john]

Heaping heavy entrees onto Samak's already overloaded plate...

Banharn considering coalition pullout

Chart Thai Party Leader Banharn Silpa-archa said on Tuesday he plans to discuss with Puea Pandin Party whether to remove themselves from the coalition government. "I'm considering this... we will have to discuss this with Puea Pandin Party," he said. Banharn, speaking after meeting all the coalition leaders including PM Samak Sundaravej during a luncheon meeting, said the leaders discussed economic problems, and did not touch on political matters such as the rallies of the People's Alliance for Democracy or the demand for a censure debate by 61 senators. Secretary-General Pradit Phataraprasit of Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana Party said Samak is worried about economic problems, so

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=128111

[tuftymorgan]

the only thing that can save Thailand now is Euro 2008...........Rock on Holland

[jumnien]

Interesting to note that, Samak has now been so side-lined, that this thread has had not one single post for 10 days !

How are the mighty fallen.

Or did he die, and nobody noticed ?

There is a big dilemma. Most of the militarists on TV backed the junta and Abhisit and thought that Samak's victory was illegitimate. Now the Abhisit is backing the PPP as the legitimate government, the militarists are sitting stunned in silence. They will no doubt be railing against Abhisit, or saying he didn't mean waht he said.

I would imagine the "militarists of TV" do understand the issues and what Abhisit is doing. You obviously don't. Read Bangkok Pundit's views on Abhisit's strategy and you will begin to see the tip of the iceberg. Then again, don't, and stay clueless. Your choice.

The "militarists of TV" being inveterate copy and pasters of pro-junta-PAD fodder would surely of posted Abhisit's views if they at all were in line with their own.

[Ricardo]

The "militarists of TV" being inveterate copy and pasters of pro-junta-PAD fodder would surely of posted Abhisit's views if they at all were in line with their own.

This is surely drifting way

[younghusband]

The "militarists of TV" being inveterate copy and pasters of pro-junta-PAD fodder would surely of posted Abhisit's views if they at all were in line with their own.

This is surely drifting way

Really? I would have thought Sunrise's point was very well made.Khun Abhisit has emphasized the electoral legitimacy of the Samak administration, going on to censure PAD for their unconstitutional platform to overthrow (in practice to provoke violence and an excuse for a coup) the legitimate government.Yet there are some on this forum who still persist that the government is only in existence because of vote buying in Isaan.Therefore the point is not only on topic but has knobs on as well.

[sriracha john]

A follow-on to the above post on the potential collapse of Samak's "legitimate" government...

Chart Thai party may quit coalition

Banharn to discuss issue with Puea Pandin

Chart Thai Party Leader Banharn Silpa-archa has sent a signal that Chart Thai may consider leaving the coalition government led by the People Power party (PPP). He said the party will have to reconsider whether the PPP is still honouring the conditions set by the five other coalition parties for joining the government. *it rather blatantly is not* Banharn said he will first discuss it with the Puea Pandin Party. "I am looking at the issue and need to talk with Puea Pandin Party first, because the two parties are hanging together. Such an important decision cannot be made by just one party," Banharn said. Surapong Towichakkulchai, a PPP MP for Chiang Mai, sharply criticised Banharn for the move. The ''slick'' style of the Chart Thai Party was quite predictable, Surapong said. He said Banharn and Chart Thai should distance themselves from the government immediately if they feel frustrated working for the PPP. Surapong said Chart Thai had been with the government throughout its four months and had to share the responsibilities. He believed if Chart Thai turns its back on the government, Samak would dissolve the House and call a general election.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/11Jun2008_news12.php

[younghusband]

A follow-on to the above post on the potential collapse of Samak's "legitimate" government...

Chart Thai party may quit coalition

Banharn to discuss issue with Puea Pandin

Chart Thai Party Leader Banharn Silpa-archa has sent a signal that Chart Thai may consider leaving the coalition government led by the People Power party (PPP). He said the party will have to reconsider whether the PPP is still honouring the conditions set by the five other coalition parties for joining the government. *it rather blatantly is not* Banharn said he will first discuss it with the Puea Pandin Party. "I am looking at the issue and need to talk with Puea Pandin Party first, because the two parties are hanging together. Such an important decision cannot be made by just one party," Banharn said. Surapong Towichakkulchai, a PPP MP for Chiang Mai, sharply criticised Banharn for the move. The ''slick'' style of the Chart Thai Party was quite predictable, Surapong said. He said Banharn and Chart Thai should distance themselves from the government immediately if they feel frustrated working for the PPP. Surapong said Chart Thai had been with the government throughout its four months and had to share the responsibilities. He believed if Chart Thai turns its back on the government, Samak would dissolve the House and call a general election.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/11Jun2008_news12.php

Good wheeze.Let's put words like legitimate in inverted commas when we can't come up with arguments to refute the reality.

Anyway as Samak implies in the quote above, if Chart Thai leaves the coalition and PPP can't find other ways of forming a majority, then it needs to re-establish its democratic credentials with the Thai people, to make it legitimate if you like.If it fails at the general election then it's the turn of the Thai peoples' choice (hopefully the Democrats).But it's not for generals, their backers or Bangkok mobs to decide.

[hammered]

A follow-on to the above post on the potential collapse of Samak's "legitimate" government...

Chart Thai party may quit coalition

Banharn to discuss issue with Puea Pandin

Chart Thai Party Leader Banharn Silpa-archa has sent a signal that Chart Thai may consider leaving the coalition government led by the People Power party (PPP). He said the party will have to reconsider whether the PPP is still honouring the conditions set by the five other coalition parties for joining the government. *it rather blatantly is not* Banharn said he will first discuss it with the Puea Pandin Party. "I am looking at the issue and need to talk with Puea Pandin Party first, because the two parties are hanging together. Such an important decision cannot be made by just one party," Banharn said. Surapong Towichakkulchai, a PPP MP for Chiang Mai, sharply criticised Banharn for the move. The ''slick'' style of the Chart Thai Party was quite predictable, Surapong said. He said Banharn and Chart Thai should distance themselves from the government immediately if they feel frustrated working for the PPP. Surapong said Chart Thai had been with the government throughout its four months and had to share the responsibilities. He believed if Chart Thai turns its back on the government, Samak would dissolve the House and call a general election.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/11Jun2008_news12.php

working for the PPP is an interesting choice of words.

Edited to add: there must also be some doubt as to whether Samak would disolve the house as it could very well mean he wont return as PM even with a huge PPP win.

Edited June 11, 2008 by hammered

[Old Man River]

A follow-on to the above post on the potential collapse of Samak's "legitimate" government...

Chart Thai party may quit coalition

Banharn to discuss issue with Puea Pandin

Chart Thai Party Leader Banharn Silpa-archa has sent a signal that Chart Thai may consider leaving the coalition government led by the People Power party (PPP). He said the party will have to reconsider whether the PPP is still honouring the conditions set by the five other coalition parties for joining the government. *it rather blatantly is not* Banharn said he will first discuss it with the Puea Pandin Party. "I am looking at the issue and need to talk with Puea Pandin Party first, because the two parties are hanging together. Such an important decision cannot be made by just one party," Banharn said. Surapong Towichakkulchai, a PPP MP for Chiang Mai, sharply criticised Banharn for the move. The ''slick'' style of the Chart Thai Party was quite predictable, Surapong said. He said Banharn and Chart Thai should distance themselves from the government immediately if they feel frustrated working for the PPP. Surapong said Chart Thai had been with the government throughout its four months and had to share the responsibilities. He believed if Chart Thai turns its back on the government, Samak would dissolve the House and call a general election.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/11Jun2008_news12.php

working for the PPP is an interesting choice of words.

Edited to add: there must also be some doubt as to whether Samak would disolve the house as it could very well mean he wont return as PM even with a huge PPP win.

More than just some doubt. He will avoid it at all costs.

[Ricardo]

The "militarists of TV" being inveterate copy and pasters of pro-junta-PAD fodder would surely of posted Abhisit's views if they at all were in line with their own.

This is surely drifting way

Really? I would have thought Sunrise's point was very well made.Khun Abhisit has emphasized the electoral legitimacy of the Samak administration, going on to censure PAD for their unconstitutional platform to overthrow (in practice to provoke violence and an excuse for a coup) the legitimate government.Yet there are some on this forum who still persist that the government is only in existence because of vote buying in Isaan.Therefore the point is not only on topic but has knobs on as well.

Abhsit recognised the legitimacy of the PPP, as the largest single minority-party several months ago after the election, when he stepped aside to give them the chance to form a government, which they managed to do, after 2 weeks of haggling ("overwhelming vote" anybody ? !). He then proceeded to form an official Opposition to the government - in true democratic fashion.

So it is mistaken to suggest that he has only just now legitimised Samak/PPP. But it makes a good smear.

No, the point which is way off-topic, in a thread about Samak & his government, is the suggestion that there are some mysterious "militarists of TV" posting here, perhaps the real reasons they aren't posting reams on the PAD is that

1.. This is not the PAD/democratic-protest thread.

2.. These claimed "militarists on TV" don't really exist !

In evidence of the latter, I would point out that they also failed to post against events, when the military-apponted government properly handed-over power to the newly-elected government. That would surely have been when any out-and-out militarists might have been expected to show their hands ?

I don't recall anybody suggesting, that the hand-over of power ought not to go ahead, or that it would be wrong, do you ?

[sriracha john]

Destructive mega dreams

The end is near. Or so they believe. That is why the Samak administration is pushing through a series of mega-projects to fatten its cronies' bank accounts while the country is already deep in environmental crisis. When you know your time is running out, you cannot afford to be patient, proper or intelligent. That is why Samak had no second thoughts about announcing his decision to build the controversial Kaeng Sua Ten dam on World Environment Day. Worse, he delivered a slap to the face of environmentalists worldwide in saying that building big dams is an effective way of fighting global warming. The price tag of the Kaeng Sua Ten dam: 10 billion baht. This is peanuts compared to what Samak has in mind. Right after he took office, he announced that he would use his premiership to push for various mega-projects with a combined price tag of 500 Billion Baht. Correct. 500 Billion Baht. A scandal, indeed, when we taxpayers are struggling to pay for skyrocketing food and petrol prices.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/12Jun2008_news21.php

[younghusband]

Abhsit recognised the legitimacy of the PPP, as the largest single minority-party several months ago after the election, when he stepped aside to give them the chance to form a government, which they managed to do, after 2 weeks of haggling ("overwhelming vote" anybody ? !). He then proceeded to form an official Opposition to the government - in true democratic fashion.

So it is mistaken to suggest that he has only just now legitimised Samak/PPP. But it makes a good smear.

No, the point which is way off-topic, in a thread about Samak & his government, is the suggestion that there are some mysterious "militarists of TV" posting here, perhaps the real reasons they aren't posting reams on the PAD is that

1.. This is not the PAD/democratic-protest thread.

2.. These claimed "militarists on TV" don't really exist !

In evidence of the latter, I would point out that they also failed to post against events, when the military-apponted government properly handed-over power to the newly-elected government. That would surely have been when any out-and-out militarists might have been expected to show their hands ?

I don't recall anybody suggesting, that the hand-over of power ought not to go ahead, or that it would be wrong, do you ?

OK I see what you're saying.You are right about Abhisit's position: I believe he is a true democrat and one of the few Thai politicians one can contemplate without holding one's nose.Pity he lacks the common touch (He should take some lessons from his fellow Old Etonian David Cameron) but there we go.He did however re-emphasize his position and it was worth noting because even now there are those who deny the current government's legitimacy.It's an important point because it undercuts the arguments for extra constitutional change.

As for TV militarists, I don't really care one way or the other.This is a forum for foreigners with too much time on their hands, full of sound and fury signifying nothing.We shouldn't take ourselves too seriously, especially as free debate is very strictly circumscribed.

[Old Man River]

The "militarists of TV" being inveterate copy and pasters of pro-junta-PAD fodder would surely of posted Abhisit's views if they at all were in line with their own.

This is surely drifting way

Yet there are some on this forum who still persist that the government is only in existence because of vote buying in Isaan.Therefore the point is not only on topic but has knobs on as well.

Perhaps, but I cannot recall any. My response was to a post that stated that vote buying doesn't exist in Thailand at all. Of course it does, but I thought I made myself clear that despite this, if they held an election tomorrow the result would be the same whether votes are bought or not.