Thailand To Legalize Gambling

[Jingthing]

Gambling is fine. Prostitution is fine. Boozing is fine.

However, where is the ORIGINAL Thai vice we have all been waiting for?

For Thailand to come into its own and be anything more than another copycat, they need their very own vice.

Any ideas?

Edited March 3, 2008 by Jingthing

[fiddlehead]

A friend of mine once told me: "The lottery is the goverment's way to get back at people who didn't listen in math class"

Proceeds to go to education of poor children! yeah right!

Appears to me that Taksin is just testing the waters.

There are casinos in Nepal but they are for foreigners only. No Nepal people allowed to gamble and you must even change your money to Indian rupees or US dollars to play. That is the only way i see it working here. There's just too many poor people that would get devastated.

[balo]

Hi

I just wanna play a game of Poker

Im doing quite well with my poker online and make a small profit of about

$200 every week so a casino in Thailand would be great for us loving the game .

I cant wait....

[VegasVic]

And this is the aspect of the whole issue/plan that blasts a huge hole in my personal philosophy that legalized gambling is a good thing for the neighboring society. Las Vegas, while it has sleezy sections, is, for the most part, a great city. The large casinos, in recent years, have all added some seriously expensive "family attractions". Throughout the city there are attractions for family entertainment with no gambling. There are very decent residential areas all around the greater LV area. The growth of the city of Las Vegas, funded almost entirely by gambling, was and is well planned and managed.

Unfortunately, this is no longer true - Vegas has already de-emphasized family attractions and is starting to position itself as an adult playground. Circus Circus was the original family destination and it is now very run-down. A couple of other locations which developed family attractions have now redeveloped those areas as well.

The reason for this is the same reason Vegas hates conventioneers - they don't gamble. This is exactly why room rates in Vegas skyrocket when there's a big convention in town.

Nevertheless, Las Vegas is the fastest growing urban area in the US, and it is very well-managed and property prices there are booming as well.

Contrast that with Atlantic City, where any area which is not casino property is slum, and even the casinos themselves are run down because the great majority of their customers have to be bussed in from nearby states and given a free roll of quarters. The famous Boardwalk is not even a shadow of its old self - even the Miss America pageant - created for Atlantic City - has moved somewhere else.

And guess what - Monopoly is creating a Global Edition - probably because Atlantic City (the original version of Monopoly) no longer appeals to people.

Thats not entirely true onethiland, while the MGM theme park is no longer and wet and wild is gone, Vegas is still much more a family destination than it was many years ago. 30 years ago Vegas was a true adult playground (with the lone exception of Circus Circus), now nearly every single strip property has a shopping area and arcade games for the kids and many have daycare and Movie theaters! Everything else in your post is spot on, and you are corect that Vegas has been the fastest growing U.S. city since 1988, however currently the real estate market has slowed due to the subprime crisis(considering the strength of the vegas economy though, vegas will rebound before most of the other hardhit areas). I think that if Thailand approaches this the right way and has professional management overseeing the casinos and a strong set of rules and regulations and serious regulatory enforcement agency, then this could be a great boon for Thailand and a much needed shot in the arm for areas like Phuket, Koh Samui, Pattaya, Chiang Mai and BKK. Thats precisely where I would locate the casinos, and they should cater to tourists and if they are done right then it will be a win win for the Thai economy. The casinos will create good paying jobs for local thais and with the increase in tax revenue Thailand can improve more of their infrastructure! Good Luck to the new government, and heres to hoping that they get it correct if they decide to legalize gaming!

[boatguy]

Oh give me strength. For heavens sake what is wrong with you people? In almost every country there is some form of gambling. Its normal common pastime, and there is no evidence that a country will degenrate into one of poverty and ruin because a casino opens up.

Get your heads out of the sand and start the look at the real world not some form of utopia.

When I was in Thailand recently I caught a program on Austrailian TV about addiction to gambling. May be you should look for it. Here is an excerpt:

Abstract:

This article documents a history of the NSW club industry, with particular emphasis on its evolution to a major contemporary operator of gaming machines at state, national and international levels. It argues that three conditions of club registration-their not-for-profit status, membership requirements, and social benefit objectives-have been instrumental for clubs in gaining and maintaining dominant rights to machine gambling in NSW. These three features of clubs traditionally have underpinned their legitimacy as major providers of machine gambling, reflecting prevailing government policy that linked legalised gambling to social benefit. However, the substantial revenues that accrued from machine gambling, amidst an absence of competition, fuelled an expansion of the club sector that was neither predicted nor planned, with many clubs growing dramatically in assets, membership and facilities. The original club goals of promoting and pursuing the social purpose and community benefit for which they were established became superseded by an emphasis on expansion, market share, and profits. More recently, increased competition for the gambling dollar, reflecting a shift in government policy towards economically driven stimulation and expansion of commercial gambling, has further entrenched the commercialisation of clubs in their machine gambling operations, subordinating their social agenda to economic interests. This change in focus by club management has diminished the social contract that exists for clubs to operate gambling for community benefit, the very basis of the clubs' legitimacy as major providers of machine gambling. Indeed, the implicit assumption that social benefit was built into club machine gambling has allowed the clubs to exploit their position of market dominance in a way that exacerbates the negative social impacts of their core product.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/hawo...hu4md.alexandra

Do you not think a quality education service, liberalised economy and more opportunities for the working class might not be higher priorities then than building 1 casino???!

[selftaopath]

This is great news for organised crime, especially the Mafia who will ultimately be running the gambling joints, plus open gambling laws will bring joy to corrupt Government ministers who I'm sure will give their full backing to the new laws allowing so called legalised gambling in Thailand. They will be able to sell gambling permits to highest bidders and probably have a large stake in the system and share of the profits.

The new legislation will have particular attraction for crime syndicates in Russia, Israel, Europe and the United States who will become main financial backers of gambling joints in Thailand.

Gambling in Thailand will fall under the control of criminals, corrupt officials & police, exactly has it has done elsewhere worldwide.

Of course there has always been back yard gambling in Thailand but soon criminal gangs will become untouchable as they can openly run gambling joints as legit businesses, subsidiaries of their prostitution and drug cartels.

But maybe they will give away a mobile phone for the very big loosers.

[samran]

note, posts which have referenced the royal family have been deleted.

Cheeers

samran

[MengWan]

I am very glad to see that this new government has the right priorities for its people.

First things first, gambling should be legalized, it is vital in the present economic situation of the country ...

(Of course, before that kind of measure is the purchase of a lot of Mercs, Jags and other status symbols)

[farang prince]

Gambling is fine. Prostitution is fine. Boozing is fine.

However, where is the ORIGINAL Thai vice we have all been waiting for?

For Thailand to come into its own and be anything more than another copycat, they need their very own vice.

Any ideas?

Well, how about killing tourists? The Thais seem to be developing some expertise in this area.

[Mobi]

I said it once and I'll say it again, and then I'll shut up.

Just because some half brain-dead pig shoots his mouth off to draw attention away from his nemesis, and get a bit of publicity, all you guys get excited as though it's really going to happen.It's almost as though you think that they'd never thought of this wonderful idea before.

Don't you think that gambling would have been legalised years ago if the government could get away with it? Do you think they enjoy the sight of all those billions of Baht being gambled over the borders in Cambodia, and all the fat cats jumping on planes to Macao etc?

I tell you if Thaksin couldn't do it - and he announced his plans to do it several times during his tenure, but then backed off - then nobody can. Least of all this half baked, 2nd class bunch of ignorant thugs who are now running the country.

The religious lobby is too strong. There will be mass proposals on the streets if this proposal ever sees the true light of day.

But my guess that it will all fade away, and nothing more will be heard.

So all your excited speculations about casinos at the Ambassador and elsewhere will come to nought.

There, that's my piece said.

[toybits]

Actually, this is great news!!! We all know who benefits from illegal gambling operations. If gambling were made legal, then money generated from legalized gambling operations would benefit the government and the people, instead of these people that benefit from it today.

A place where my son used to go for tutorial school (2-doors away actually) was an illegal gambling den. Would you believe that most of the people that went there were boys and girls still in their school uniform!!!

[toybits]

A neighbor's nephew lost more than a 100 k through illegal gambling. Will legalizing gambling prevent this type of thing from happening again? I doubt it. But legalizing gambling could remove graft and corruption.

[Plus]

It won'd remove graft and corruption, it will redirect it, and most of it won't go to the government pockets at all.

Even if it does - we have a shining example of two-digits lottery. First, the whole setup was illegal (the whole Cabinet is going to be indicted for approving it), then the revenues were diverted to off the books political campaigning instead of education. Whatever has reached the education, was given to children of influential political supporters first.

The whole idea is that "we will steal so much that your crumbs will look big", but lots of people go along with it without realising that they themselves are going to finance this thieving spree.

While details were never presented, I believe Samak was also talking about lotto type machines for your average Thais, not just big casinos for foreign highrollers.

[sawadeeken]

A neighbor's nephew lost more than a 100 k through illegal gambling. Will legalizing gambling prevent this type of thing from happening again? I doubt it. But legalizing gambling could remove graft and corruption.

OH, COULD IT ?????? BETTER THINK ABOUT THAT SOMEMORE........... I THINK JUST THE OPPOSIT WILL OCCUR.................. AND A LOT MORE LIKE YOUR NEIGHBOR

[vitz]

wow if samak really doing this casino thailand will famous like malaysia and macau....

[steveromagnino]

A neighbor's nephew lost more than a 100 k through illegal gambling. Will legalizing gambling prevent this type of thing from happening again? I doubt it. But legalizing gambling could remove graft and corruption.

ok, talk me through this. We have legalised gambling now. The 2/3 number lottery was declared illegal and much of the proceeds are missing in action.

So....how exactly do you think it is going to remove 'graft and corruption'?

I suspect this might be a ploy to distract and do yet another bait and switch similar to:

- we are going to buy Liverpool

- we are going to create a new municipal city in Nakorn Nayok

- we are going to sell off EGAT

- we are going to build various things into hubs

- we are going to give away 1 million cows

- we are going to dam the Mekong

- we are going to build a high way across the sea to Hua Hin

Each one requires a well paid consultant to do a feasibility study, and then it goes nowhere. Split the cost of the study, say 20-200 million, 40:60 and everyone is happy and nothing gets done.

But of course the masses (and not just the rural poor either, a fair few quite affluent educated people too) love to see a man of ACTION - obviously saying we are going to do this and that with a swagger is MUCH smarter than carefully planning and considering then building a sound economy. After all, talk about this stuff enough and people forget ideas like education system, cleaning up trash, etc.

Shoot from the hip, ask questions later.

If he does open a Casino, well a legal one anyway, at least Chalerm can say, 'you feel lucky.....punk?' and it won't mean he is about to shoot you. Well, he probably is, but maybe a bit later, after you manage to pull big slick in a game of hold em... and then pull 3 more aces out of your a$$ on the flop, turn and river.

[yumidesign]

The rumour was that all those five star hotels being built in Chiang Mai had received heads up that the first mega casino was going to built there. Now we'll see.

Now this makes a great deal of sense, where did your information come from?

[steveromagnino]

The rumour was that all those five star hotels being built in Chiang Mai had received heads up that the first mega casino was going to built there. Now we'll see.

Now this makes a great deal of sense, where did your information come from?

sorry, I know some of the 5 star hotels up there, and AFAIK they have never taken this into account.

When you are renting out a tent for thousands of dollars, the last thing you want is some degenerate gambler.

The hotel industry doesn't benefit at all from casinos; the casino will be a self enclosed MICE/hotel/casino/F&B complex for package tourists, same as the scum hole in Genting.

[sawadeeken]

I said it once and I'll say it again, and then I'll shut up.

Just because some half brain-dead pig shoots his mouth off to draw attention away from his nemesis, and get a bit of publicity, all you guys get excited as though it's really going to happen.It's almost as though you think that they'd never thought of this wonderful idea before.

Don't you think that gambling would have been legalised years ago if the government could get away with it? Do you think they enjoy the sight of all those billions of Baht being gambled over the borders in Cambodia, and all the fat cats jumping on planes to Macao etc?

I tell you if Thaksin couldn't do it - and he announced his plans to do it several times during his tenure, but then backed off - then nobody can. Least of all this half baked, 2nd class bunch of ignorant thugs who are now running the country.

The religious lobby is too strong. There will be mass proposals on the streets if this proposal ever sees the true light of day.

But my guess that it will all fade away, and nothing more will be heard.

So all your excited speculations about casinos at the Ambassador and elsewhere will come to nought.

There, that's my piece said.

I, FOR ONE, SINCERELY HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT

[yumidesign]

The rumour was that all those five star hotels being built in Chiang Mai had received heads up that the first mega casino was going to built there. Now we'll see.

Now this makes a great deal of sense, where did your information come from?

sorry, I know some of the 5 star hotels up there, and AFAIK they have never taken this into account.

When you are renting out a tent for thousands of dollars, the last thing you want is some degenerate gambler.

The hotel industry doesn't benefit at all from casinos; the casino will be a self enclosed MICE/hotel/casino/F&B complex for package tourists, same as the scum hole in Genting.

hmmmmm that makes a great deal of sense too, but the question remains about the continuing oversupply of so called 5 star (resort) expensive hotel rooms in Chiang Mai, which are now being discounted heavily as there are no customers - so this is just another example of the lack of any basic business acumen, how then are they going to run an internationally competitive gambeling business successfully, without causing great pain to Thai people? The greed factor rules!

[jasreeve17]

I think that Mobi is right (not that I like the religous bigots...), his arguments seem solid. If MtT couldn't get away with it then Hoggy is very unlikely to.

After the coup / corruption and graft out brigade it is amazing to see the sheer arrogance of Hoggy and the others. Their first days in power consist of:-

. Getting their best friends / children (criminals or not) into the highest positions possible.

. Get the big projects rolling cause they are the most efficient way for us to steal.

. Kick out anyone who won't fully support our stealing.

. Change all legal procedings that might inhibit our activies, past, present and future.

. Control the media to make sure nobody says anything bad about us.

& now - let's try our luck at the casino scam again. You never know...

Oh, & lets not bother to waste time developing policies cause that'll get in the way of our stealing.

[patsfangr]

I think that if Thailand approaches this the right way and has professional management overseeing the casinos and a strong set of rules and regulations and serious regulatory enforcement agency, then this could be a great boon for Thailand ...

I completely agree with you, Vic. However, the conditions you correctly set as a requisite for this "great boon" do not exist anywhere in Thailand now; and I see no logical reason to expect that they would suddenly be put in place for a legalized gambling industry.

This truly saddens me, because I am one of those rare birds, a "responsible gambler". I've loved gambling all my life; from poker with friends, to gambling on (American) football, to visiting casinos is Las Vegas, Laughlin, and various Indian Reservations. My rule has always been the same. I set an amount of money that I can afford to "spend" for my "entertainment" that evening, and go to it. The most I've ever lost in a poker game is about $55. The most I ever lost in a season (I always kept track) betting on football was $270. The most I ever lost in a casino was $300 (a few times), because that was the limit I set, and I would NOT gamble beyond that limit. With those limits in place, I have enjoyed gambling very much, and always treated it, on the first level, as entertainment. Yes, of course I always had the gamblers dream of hitting it big. I did hit a poker machine jackpot once for $1200; and I once won $900 in a single weekend of football betting. But that's as close as I've ever come to "hitting it big". Still, as I said, I love to gamble, just for the game, and the joy of the "little victories".

Because of that, I'd like nothing better than to see some really nice, safe, comfortable, legal, and fair casinos open in or around Pattaya. As you said, good management, and effectively enforced regulations could make such venues extremely positive places for the customers and the people of the area. But it just can't happen that way here.

[onethailand]

Thats not entirely true onethiland, while the MGM theme park is no longer and wet and wild is gone, Vegas is still much more a family destination than it was many years ago. 30 years ago Vegas was a true adult playground (with the lone exception of Circus Circus), now nearly every single strip property has a shopping area and arcade games for the kids and many have daycare and Movie theaters!

I'll see if I can find a reference to back up what I said - Vegas was indeed an adult playground, and a sleazy one at that - before the MGM and others started repositioning as "family entertainment" and completely rebuilt the Strip. However, they are now de-emphasizing "family entertainment" though obviously some locations still exist. I wouldn't go so far as to consider those tiny arcades "family amusement" - and the shopping areas are still more or less for adults.

So you're also right by pointing out there is more family entertainment than there was many years ago - but it is turning in the other direction again.

Here's what I found with a quick search - it's only a snippet but should be sufficient to show that the tide has turned - "Although the city is no longer concentrating on billing itself as a family destination, there are plenty of things to do for the younger and family-oriented crowd and a lot of them are free."

http://www.reviewjournal.com/bestoflv/2007/entertainment.jsp

Everything else in your post is spot on, and you are corect that Vegas has been the fastest growing U.S. city since 1988, however currently the real estate market has slowed due to the subprime crisis(considering the strength of the vegas economy though, vegas will rebound before most of the other hardhit areas). I think that if Thailand approaches this the right way and has professional management overseeing the casinos and a strong set of rules and regulations and serious regulatory enforcement agency, then this could be a great boon for Thailand and a much needed shot in the arm for areas like Phuket, Koh Samui, Pattaya, Chiang Mai and BKK. Thats precisely where I would locate the casinos, and they should cater to tourists and if they are done right then it will be a win win for the Thai economy. The casinos will create good paying jobs for local thais and with the increase in tax revenue Thailand can improve more of their infrastructure! Good Luck to the new government, and heres to hoping that they get it correct if they decide to legalize gaming!

Growth is definitely slowing in Vegas - but probably still one of a very few areas which continue to grow.

Careful regulation, planning of infrastructure, and monitoring will be necessary to make a casino project work anywhere, perhaps more so in Thailand than other countries.

patsfangr - I wish I had your self-control

[slapout]

I never considered Los Vegas sleezy when it was for adults (thru the 80's). I was aquainted with a couple of pit bosses and several dealers and always had a large time there. It did not have the robberies etc they have now, the police then would fit in nicely with the Thai police in several ways. The rumors that organized crime used it to skim and launder money may be a factor in the ultimate choice make here. I can see how there would be a good fit. I am sure the Thai leaders have taken all of these things into account as well as funding for schools, social services, roads, etc before this suggestion was orginally made. I just look at the difference between the founders of Los Vegas gambling and those who want to get Thailand going in this direction, Mr T, PM and the In.M and the only difference I could note was the LV group lacked a University degree, and seemed to have better control of family and hired help. But then, I did not or do not know any of them personally. I also enjoyed gambling, poker craps blackjack, etc but I would put what I determined I could lose in left hand pocket, when was gone I enjoyed the shows drink, and other. Only exception was when I was delt a pair of aces in Balckjack on what I thought was last hand.

[george]

Update:

Samak wants casinos legalised to fight gambling

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej has underlined his intention to legalise casinos as part of the government's strategy to crack own on illegal casinos.

"If this government gets to complete its four-year term, people will definitely get to see legalised casinos," he said.

Speakig following his return from Cambodia where he was on a two day visit, Mr Samak said he and his Cambodian counterpart had briefly discussed plans to propose that Phra Vihear temple be named a Unesco World Heritage site.

He then went on to defend the recent transfers of four senior government offiicials saying they were done appropriately.

"There have only been four transfers. I'm not worried at all that this would have a negative impact on the government's reputation," he said. He also stressed that the government will not be involved with future changes expected at the Foreign Ministry.

-- Bangkok Post 2008-03-04

[SinCityGr8One]

It would be disastrous for Thailand. Forget about the short term gains like employment, creation of secondary jobs and the like. Gaming will take from the poor and give to the rich. Nevada has not have an increase of the Gaming Tax in close to 50 years. Why you might ask? Because the politicians are scared of ruffling the feathers of the Gaming Corporations. Also, most Politicians after their political lives are over, are eagerly empolyed by the Casinos in one elevated position or another. Providing they had been kind to the Casino during their term. Nevada ranks in the 51st position for education in the USA, when D.C. is included. And the States Education Budget will be cut by 4% in 2008 because of a lower tax revenues. There is NO need for a quality education when the local economy employs Dealers, Bartenders, Cocktail Waitresses and Strippers. Only the Multi-National Corporations will be the BIG winners with their insateable appetites for money. All the rest involved will be the losers. You don't think those BIG Casinos were built by people winning money, do you? The HOUSE always WINS! And Yeah, I'm from Vegas.

[onethailand]

It would be disastrous for Thailand. Forget about the short term gains like employment, creation of secondary jobs and the like. Gaming will take from the poor and give to the rich. Nevada has not have an increase of the Gaming Tax in close to 50 years. Why you might ask? Because the politicians are scared of ruffling the feathers of the Gaming Corporations. Also, most Politicians after their political lives are over, are eagerly empolyed by the Casinos in one elevated position or another. Providing they had been kind to the Casino during their term. Nevada ranks in the 51st position for education in the USA, when D.C. is included. And the States Education Budget will be cut by 4% in 2008 because of a lower tax revenues. There is NO need for a quality education when the local economy employs Dealers, Bartenders, Cocktail Waitresses and Strippers. Only the Multi-National Corporations will be the BIG winners with their insateable appetites for money. All the rest involved will be the losers. You don't think those BIG Casinos were built by people winning money, do you? The HOUSE always WINS! And Yeah, I'm from Vegas.

I might be inclined to agree to a certain extent. However, Nevada has low gaming tax compared to jurisdictions like Macau - if Thailand were to set a reasonably high gaming tax, there would be enough to spend on infrastructure, education, etc.

I also heard that the quality of education in Clark County was going up, not down, but I cannot remember where I read this. Unfortunately, not all of Nevada enjoys the same privileges as residents of Clark County do.

One other very important regulation that Thailand should copy from Nevada - anyone convicted of any crime may not be employed by a casino. That would make it much harder for undesirable elements to take control.

Job creation? Remains to be seen on what scale they will allow gambling. If we're talking one or two casinos here, then job creation would hardly be a highlight of the arrival of legalized gambling.

By the way, Chalerm, in agreeing with Samak, actually said that Thais should not be allowed to gamble. While I tend to agree with this, one has to wonder how sincere Chalerm was when he said that

[ozzydom]

A neighbor's nephew lost more than a 100 k through illegal gambling. Will legalizing gambling prevent this type of thing from happening again? I doubt it. But legalizing gambling could remove graft and corruption.

According to the Prime Minister speaking on the evening news, gambling in casino,s would be banned for Thai nationals as it is in Cambodia for Cambodians.

[Thai at Heart]

A neighbor's nephew lost more than a 100 k through illegal gambling. Will legalizing gambling prevent this type of thing from happening again? I doubt it. But legalizing gambling could remove graft and corruption.

According to the Prime Minister speaking on the evening news, gambling in casino,s would be banned for Thai nationals as it is in Cambodia for Cambodians.

If listening to the grape vine means anything in this country at the moment, how about an undeveloped part of Thailand that currently attracts almost no high paying tourists and has a ton of very disappointed MP's right now. Get your tour books out guys!

[senshusband]

I sincerely hope this does not affect a large number of Thais that do not partake in gambling already. I know that has been a very tough thing between my wife and I. A lot of Thais think that after they have lost, they can keep going because their luck will change and they will win their money back. Gambling amongst Thais has hurt a lot of families. Only Thailand? No, of course not. Every country has its gambling problems, but what can the government do to help the addicts? Will the government discourage gambling? Probably not, because then there would be no revenue coming in. Hopefully it will not be like the early American settlers giving the American Indians whiskey. "Oh, hey, try this. It makes you feel good." Well, before you know it, you've got a lot of people hooked and don't have a solution to the problem. I hope that the Thai government will use some common sense and not think only about their wallets getting fat.