Tourist To Retirement Visa

[Woofer]

I went on a visa run thinking I would get another 90 days on my non immigrant O visa, but found that the enter before date had passed, so they only gave me 30 days tourist visa. I was planning to use the rest of my non immigrant o visa to apply for a retirement visa. Apart from going back to my own country, where can I get a non immigrant o visa, which I can eventually be converted to a retirement visa? A visa company says they can do it all for me without travelling at cost of 25,000 baht.

[lopburi3]

You can do it yourself at a cost of 2,000 baht. But you need to do with 21 days or more remaining on a visa exempt or tourist visa - if you don't have it now make another border run. Visit Immigration with proof of meeting retirement extension of stay (financial paperwork) and they can issue you a single entry non immigrant O visa - cost 2,000 baht. Then, when down to 30 days remaining you can extend for one year at a cost of 1,900 baht.

[Woofer]

You can do it yourself at a cost of 2,000 baht. But you need to do with 21 days or more remaining on a visa exempt or tourist visa - if you don't have it now make another border run. Visit Immigration with proof of meeting retirement extension of stay (financial paperwork) and they can issue you a single entry non immigrant O visa - cost 2,000 baht. Then, when down to 30 days remaining you can extend for one year at a cost of 1,900 baht.

Thanks Lopburi. How long is the single entry non immigrant o visa valid for? I have just placed 800,000 baht in the bank, does it need to be there for 3 months before I can recieve the non immigrant o visa?

[lopburi3]

If you do not use any income it must be there for 3 months. A non immigrant O visa provides a 90 day stay. Not sure if they require the three months for visa issue/conversion but web site still says it is not required as below so if you currently have 21 day or more remaining and can show proof from bank should be able to do now - if not and three months required just obtain a tourist visa if you can not obtain a non immigrant at a local Consulate - there is no need to return home or pay anyone 25k (which if passport leaves country without you is illegal).

DOCUMENTS TO BE SUBMITTED IN SUPPORT OF THE APPLICATION FOR VISA OR VISA STATUS ALTERATION (NON-O): FOR RETIREMENT PURPOSES.

In case of overstaying in Thailand, application could not be submitted.

Application for Visa Status Alteration. (TM.86)

Application for visa. (TM.87)

Copy of passport entries.

4 X 6 cm. Photograph.

Application fee of 2,000 baht.

• A guarantee letter from bank in Thailand showing that the applicant has an account of not less than 800,000 baht, and

• Copy all pages of bank passbook and

• A document proving foreign remittance(SWIFT) Or

A guarantee-letter from The Embassy or Consulate, proving the monthly pension or income of the applicant not less than 65,000 baht per month. Or

The total amount of money from the pension and bank account as stated above not less than 800,000 baht.

[scyriacus]

i've heard rumors, that the money need not be in a thai bank account and that one could combine any monthly income with any credit balance as long as it sums up to 780,000 (eg 65,000 times 12, or 45,000 times 12 plus 240,000) is this correct? what, if i have neither 65,000 per month nor 800,000 in a thai bank, but a combination of both? will i get my visa? and the rumor, that an application for retirement can only be submitted in my 'home country' is definitely wrong?

[prodriver]

i've heard rumors, that the money need not be in a thai bank account and that one could combine any monthly income with any credit balance as long as it sums up to 780,000 (eg 65,000 times 12, or 45,000 times 12 plus 240,000) is this correct? what, if i have neither 65,000 per month nor 800,000 in a thai bank, but a combination of both? will i get my visa? and the rumor, that an application for retirement can only be submitted in my 'home country' is definitely wrong?

"Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters No. 606/2549" 7.21 (4) states Account deposit with a bank in Thailand of not less than Baht 800,000 as shown in bank account transactions for the past 3 months.

[Maestro]

i've heard rumors...

No comment on your rumour.

For the facts, please read this extract from the currently valid rules:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...st&id=55033

--

Maestro

[JimGant]

and the rumor, that an application for retirement can only be submitted in my 'home country' is definitely wrong?

If the rumor meant 'application for retirement visa,' then it's correct, as the so-called 'retirement visa' -- the Non Immigrant O-A -- can only be obtained outside Thailand, and is issued by the MFA at their embassies and consulates.

In the last few years, Thai Immigration has been able to issue Non Imm O visas within Thailand to those who otherwise qualify for retirement, with the next step being the issuance of a one-year permitted to stay stamp. But, this is NOT the same as a Non Imm O-A visa (tho' the results are the same, allowing a one-year permission of stay).

MFA, however, thinks Immigration issues Non Imm O-A visas to retirement-eligible applicants -- not the actual Non Imm O visas with extension of stay stamps. Why this misinformation? Hubris, probably, since MFA is the visa-issuing guru -- and Immigration surely wouldn't differ from the guru.........

Anyway, the confusion is understandable when visas are confused with permitted to stay stamps -- and the confusion is furthered by erroneous info on MFA websites.

As far as Non Imm O-A visas only being issued in one's 'home country' .......... This may or may not be the case all the time. But, as one example, the LA Consulate will only issue O-A visas to US citizens or permanent residents. This may be the case elsewhere too. (But I don't know for a fact.)

[lopburi3]

i've heard rumors, that the money need not be in a thai bank account and that one could combine any monthly income with any credit balance as long as it sums up to 780,000 (eg 65,000 times 12, or 45,000 times 12 plus 240,000) is this correct? what, if i have neither 65,000 per month nor 800,000 in a thai bank, but a combination of both? will i get my visa? and the rumor, that an application for retirement can only be submitted in my 'home country' is definitely wrong?

Money can be in home country account for non immigrant OA visa issued in home country. For any extension of stay issued in Thailand it must be located in Thailand.

Combination of annual pension/bank account to make 800k (not 780k) or more is accepted for extensions of stay.

One year stay for retirement may be obtained two ways (most will use b in later years in any case):

a. Non immigrant OA visa issue in home country.

b. Extension of a non immigrant visa inside Thailand. (Conversion to this visa is possible at Immigration if entry was made on another type)

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I went on a visa run thinking I would get another 90 days on my non immigrant O visa, but found that the enter before date had passed, so they only gave me 30 days tourist visa. I was planning to use the rest of my non immigrant o visa to apply for a retirement visa. Apart from going back to my own country, where can I get a non immigrant o visa, which I can eventually be converted to a retirement visa? A visa company says they can do it all for me without travelling at cost of 25,000 baht.

That visa option would have been illegal option. Your visa would have been worthless.

[padfoot]

and the rumor, that an application for retirement can only be submitted in my 'home country' is definitely wrong?

If the rumor meant 'application for retirement visa,' then it's correct, as the so-called 'retirement visa' -- the Non Immigrant O-A -- can only be obtained outside Thailand, and is issued by the MFA at their embassies and consulates.

In the last few years, Thai Immigration has been able to issue Non Imm O visas within Thailand to those who otherwise qualify for retirement, with the next step being the issuance of a one-year permitted to stay stamp. But, this is NOT the same as a Non Imm O-A visa (tho' the results are the same, allowing a one-year permission of stay).

MFA, however, thinks Immigration issues Non Imm O-A visas to retirement-eligible applicants -- not the actual Non Imm O visas with extension of stay stamps. Why this misinformation? Hubris, probably, since MFA is the visa-issuing guru -- and Immigration surely wouldn't differ from the guru.........

Anyway, the confusion is understandable when visas are confused with permitted to stay stamps -- and the confusion is furthered by erroneous info on MFA websites.

As far as Non Imm O-A visas only being issued in one's 'home country' .......... This may or may not be the case all the time. But, as one example, the LA Consulate will only issue O-A visas to US citizens or permanent residents. This may be the case elsewhere too. (But I don't know for a fact.)

I have a couple of questions here, what is the advantage of getting a Non Imm O-A in ones home country? In the long run does it make any difference? It seems that getting a Non Imm O visa in Thailand is the easier route with fewer hoops to jump through.

[WISteve]

The process of converting a tourist visa to a non immigrant O with a 12 month extension to stay seems like a much easier approach and one which I might be able to utilize now.

I am over 50 years old and working about 4 months each year in the USA. My income is well past the 800k baht annually. I will be arriving in Thailand in May with a tourist visa issued in Chicago. Couldn't I get the income verification from my embassy in Bangkok (using a copy of my tax return and verification of payment) since I'm stopping there anyway, make application to convert it to a non-immigrant O and get the 12 month permission to stay stamp all in the same month? It would simplify travel to and from Thailand considerably. I was in Thailand for the months of September and November last year, a short trip in March this year and will be here for the months of May, July, September and November this year.

I presently spend about 4-5 months each year in Thailand and I have to be careful about avoiding the 90 days in six months rule for the visa exemption stamps by making application for a tourist visa a couple times each year here in the USA before I travel. I have not retired for good yet and have not begun receiving my pension or taken any distributions from IRA's etc.

Do you gentlemen see a problem with this approach? Is earned income outside of Thailand an acceptable means of proving the 800k baht annual income requirement? I have a Thai bank account with a modest sum in it but I have not yet funded it to the 800k amount because I did not consider getting a retirement visa yet.

I would appreciate your input, thank you.

~WISteve

[Lite Beer]

The process of converting a tourist visa to a non immigrant O with a 12 month extension to stay seems like a much easier approach and one which I might be able to utilize now.

I am over 50 years old and working about 4 months each year in the USA. My income is well past the 800k baht annually. I will be arriving in Thailand in May with a tourist visa issued in Chicago. Couldn't I get the income verification from my embassy in Bangkok (using a copy of my tax return and verification of payment) since I'm stopping there anyway, make application to convert it to a non-immigrant O and get the 12 month permission to stay stamp all in the same month? It would simplify travel to and from Thailand considerably. I was in Thailand for the months of September and November last year, a short trip in March this year and will be here for the months of May, July, September and November this year.

I presently spend about 4-5 months each year in Thailand and I have to be careful about avoiding the 90 days in six months rule for the visa exemption stamps by making application for a tourist visa a couple times each year here in the USA before I travel. I have not retired for good yet and have not begun receiving my pension or taken any distributions from IRA's etc.

Do you gentlemen see a problem with this approach? Is earned income outside of Thailand an acceptable means of proving the 800k baht annual income requirement? I have a Thai bank account with a modest sum in it but I have not yet funded it to the 800k amount because I did not consider getting a retirement visa yet.

I would appreciate your input, thank you.

~WISteve

The only problem I can see is that you would have to make sure you were in Thailand every May to renew it.

[lopburi3]

You might have a problem as applications for extension of stay are normally only accepted during the last 30 days of a 90 day non immigrant visa entry. Exceptions seem to be made but not sure if for all. But nothing lost in asking. In general they do seem to try hard to approve retirement applications. If you have Embassy letter and (tax backup if required) that should satisfy the financial requirements.

[WISteve]

The only problem I can see is that you would have to make sure you were in Thailand every May to renew it.

Thanks Lite Beer.

Respect the opinion of some of you veterans on here.

May is one month I am always in Thailand so this should be a good time to consider making a positive move toward staying for good. I've been a little nervous about this gradual move toward retirement but with good information like this it's very reassuring to me.

"You might have a problem as applications for extension of stay are normally only accepted during the last 30 days of a 90 day non immigrant visa entry. Exceptions seem to be made but not sure if for all."

Perhaps if I can get the non-immigrant O I can get a re-entry permit and apply in July if that is the case? Since I'll be making application in Bangkok around the 12th of May that would put me mid-July while I am back for the sixty day mark. I'll be leaving the 5th of June and returning the 2nd of July.

I'll report back how it all works out.

Thanks gentlemen!

~WISteve

[tom21]

I am a bit lost with this thread. I thought a tourist visa is for 60 days and a visa on arrival was for 30 days. Is the above a different type of tourist visa.

[lopburi3]

A tourist visa is either a 30 or 60 day entry (depending on nationality). A visa exempt entry is 30 days for most. A visa on arrival is 15 days.

Many people call the 30 day visa exempt entry a visa on arrival - it is not.

[JimGant]

The only problem I can see is that you would have to make sure you were in Thailand every May to renew it.

That's the way it used to be.......

But (Lopburi can fill in the specifics) now when you finally get your one-year retirement extension, the one-year clock starts the day you get the extension -- not the day you entered Thailand (as it used to be). So, in this case, if you have to wait until July to return to Immigration to get your extension, July becomes the month in which you'll have to make your future extension renewals. Plus, the specific date in July becomes your *cannot exceed date* or you'll be back to square one (you have a 30-day window prior to that date, however, to maneuver in). This can make planning for future renewals somewhat interesting if you're still a world traveler.

I'm not sure (again, Lopburi can answer) if the 90-day clock you get with the in-country Non Imm O begins from date of entry --or date the Non Imm O is issued by Immigration. ....(?). Here's a scenario: You enter Thailand on 1 May with a tourist visa. On June 8th -- 39 days later, with 21 days remaining on your permitted to stay stamp, you go to Immigration and get a Non Imm O. Is your new permitted to stay 90 days from your 1 May entry, i.e., until 29 July -- or is it 90 days from the June 8th issue date, i.e., until 7 Sept?

And if the latter, and you got a 30-day extension on your tourist visa before you applied for your Non Imm O, this would mean you could wait until October to apply for your retirement extension -- with October then being your subsequent annual renewal month -- and possibly more to your liking then either July or Sept...

Unfortunately, Thai Immigration is like a box of chocolates..... What Lopburi can report from what he's read doesn't mean that's the way it is in all situations. If there's anything consistent about Thai Immigration, it is ...... that it is inconsistent.

[WISteve]

Very interesting JimGant and thank you. I also will await lopburi3's response on when the clock begins and if it continues to run while I am out of the country.

I've always asked for and received a single entry tourist visa here in the USA, good for 60 days in the past. I use it once and then go back to a visa exempt stamp on the next entry. I requested a double entry from Chicago this time (haven't got it yet; should be here in the next few days express mail). Since my initial entry will be May 7th with an exit on June 5th and re-entry on July 2nd I could ask for a re-entry permit at the airport when I leave on June 5th and request a 30 day extension shortly after arrival on July 2nd? Assuming that goes alright I could apply for the non-immigrant O at that time if I can make application for it while on a 30 day extension too?

I'm down to four blank pages in my passport (three after my tourist visa arrives from Chicago) so I was intending to have pages added at the US Citizen Services office in Bangkok on the 12th of May. When I make my appointment for that online I could also request an income verification appointment and go from there. I'm always in Thailand in May, September and November but the other months are a bit fluid.

Slowly inching my way into the water. This will just be a bigger step toward staying here full time.

~WISteve

[lopburi3]

Currently non immigrant extensions of stay are starting at your application permitted to stay until date. If you enter on a non immigrant visa the extension will start 90 days later (the permitted to stay until date). For conversion believe they have allowed immediate extension applications in the past but not sure if that is general policy or not. In theory you would obtain a 90 day non immigrant O visa and then 60 days or more later apply for the one year extension of stay (which would start at the 90 day permitted to stay until date). But I believe for retirement if you have the documents ready they have made both conversion and extension the same day. You might want to ask the office involved to be sure. In future years you always have to make application before extension ends but if you present solid evidence they will often allow this more than 30 days early (but that is always an exception and not guaranteed). In any case it is not that hard to start over again if you have to do so.

[JimGant]

Steve, I'm afraid I may have confused you. This quote, from you earlier post, still fits the bill, as far as I can see:

Perhaps if I can get the non-immigrant O I can get a re-entry permit and apply in July if that is the case? Since I'll be making application in Bangkok around the 12th of May that would put me mid-July while I am back for the sixty day mark. I'll be leaving the 5th of June and returning the 2nd of July.

Yes, come in on 7 May on your tourist visa; go to the American Embassy and get your income verification statement (just your sworn word, no paperwork required). Then, to Thai Immigration to get your Non Imm O visa. They may, as Lop says, and others have reported, allow you to get your retirement one-year extension right there and then. Great, at which time you would also apply for a re-entry permit (probably a multiple one in your case). But, if they tell you to come back in two months for your extension, well, no problem. The only difference is you now have a 90-day permitted to stay stamp that comes with your new Non Imm O visa -- not the one-year retirement permitted to stay stamp. Get a single re-entry stamp to get you back into Thailand in July, when you'll return to Immigration, get your one-year retirement extension of stay, and apply for a new re-entry permit -- in this case, to cover your new, one-year permitted to stay stamp (as the 90-day permitted to stay stamp, along with any re-entry permits, is now trumped by this one-year stamp).

My earlier long-winded post was mainly to point-out that future retirement renewal dates are no longer the month you originally enter. And, as Lop has just posted, in your case, this would be in August, 90 days from the date you convert your Tourist visa to a Non Imm O visa.

Sounds like May works better for you than August for future renewals. And it would seem, if you're out of the country on your extension anniversary, that coming back in on a 30-day exempt stamp, filling out a TM87, then going to Immigration with all the same info they'd require for a renewal would be a piece of cake. It would be -- if you could be assured the airline didn't require a round trip ticket. Sigh.

[Woofer]

If you do not use any income it must be there for 3 months. A non immigrant O visa provides a 90 day stay. Not sure if they require the three months for visa issue/conversion but web site still says it is not required as below so if you currently have 21 day or more remaining and can show proof from bank should be able to do now - if not and three months required just obtain a tourist visa if you can not obtain a non immigrant at a local Consulate - there is no need to return home or pay anyone 25k (which if passport leaves country without you is illegal).

DOCUMENTS TO BE SUBMITTED IN SUPPORT OF THE APPLICATION FOR VISA OR VISA STATUS ALTERATION (NON-O): FOR RETIREMENT PURPOSES.

In case of overstaying in Thailand, application could not be submitted.

Application for Visa Status Alteration. (TM.86)

Application for visa. (TM.87)

Copy of passport entries.

4 X 6 cm. Photograph.

Application fee of 2,000 baht.

• A guarantee letter from bank in Thailand showing that the applicant has an account of not less than 800,000 baht, and

• Copy all pages of bank passbook and

• A document proving foreign remittance(SWIFT) Or

A guarantee-letter from The Embassy or Consulate, proving the monthly pension or income of the applicant not less than 65,000 baht per month. Or

The total amount of money from the pension and bank account as stated above not less than 800,000 baht.

I went down to immgration today in Pattaya today and ask the lady at the information desk if I can convert tourist visa into a non immgrate O for retirement purposes. She said to go to another country to get a non-immgrate O visa, but she was not really listening or understanding my situation. I will complete the forms and take them do tomorrow.

[Woofer]

If you do not use any income it must be there for 3 months. A non immigrant O visa provides a 90 day stay. Not sure if they require the three months for visa issue/conversion but web site still says it is not required as below so if you currently have 21 day or more remaining and can show proof from bank should be able to do now - if not and three months required just obtain a tourist visa if you can not obtain a non immigrant at a local Consulate - there is no need to return home or pay anyone 25k (which if passport leaves country without you is illegal).

DOCUMENTS TO BE SUBMITTED IN SUPPORT OF THE APPLICATION FOR VISA OR VISA STATUS ALTERATION (NON-O): FOR RETIREMENT PURPOSES.

In case of overstaying in Thailand, application could not be submitted.

Application for Visa Status Alteration. (TM.86)

Application for visa. (TM.87)

Copy of passport entries.

4 X 6 cm. Photograph.

Application fee of 2,000 baht.

• A guarantee letter from bank in Thailand showing that the applicant has an account of not less than 800,000 baht, and

• Copy all pages of bank passbook and

• A document proving foreign remittance(SWIFT) Or

A guarantee-letter from The Embassy or Consulate, proving the monthly pension or income of the applicant not less than 65,000 baht per month. Or

The total amount of money from the pension and bank account as stated above not less than 800,000 baht.

Thanks Lobburi 3. I went to immgration as you suggested with my letter from the bank stating I had 800,000 baht and they gave me a non-immgrate visa for 3 months and told me to come back in 2 months and they will give me a retirement visa. The total cost of the two visa will be 3,900 baht a big saving compared with the 25,000 baht a visa company was going to charge me for the same service. Thanks again.

[madmitch]

O and O-A visas have been mentioned here. Can you get an extension of stay based on retirement (assuming you fulfil all the othe criteria) on a non-immigrant B visa?

[lopburi3]

You should be able to do so - the reason for extension is retirement; not the visa.

[sniffdog]

================================================================================

=========================

A visa company says they can do it all for me without travelling at cost of 25,000 baht.

================================================================================

=========================

They will take care of the 800,000 baht requirement ... They'll put it in an account in your name and then apply for the visa. It is first converted into a

Non-Immigrant O and then after three monts it will be extended into a 12 months non O.

You have to be 50 though.

Question to Dr.Patpong:

Why should this be illegal?

[lopburi3]

That post seemed to indicate a visa was being obtained from outside Thailand while passport holder was inside Thailand - which would make it invalid.

You now say this company is putting money into an account to make Immigration believe it belongs to passport holder. As the money is required to belong to the passport holder, be in account three months and designed to prove the applicant has the ability to pay his way for the extension of stay I don't believe there is much doubt that if found out Immigration will take action to block any such extension of stay. This is exactly the type of fraud that the 3 month rule seems to have been designed to remove.

[Kerryd]

Another reason it would be illegal is that you have to give your passport to someone else to process the visa this way, and by law, you are required to have your passport with you at all times. (It's a minor point, and I highly doubt many long-stayers, or even tourists, carry their passports with them at all times).

I've also read somewhere (here ?) where it was quoted that it is illegal to have someone else arrange a visa for you (i.e. you are supposed to do it youself, in person). It is also in your best interest to do it yourself, and then you won't have to worry about getting caught with a "shady" (fake) visa (which has happened to some people).

Once you have your visa, it would be advisable to make a couple of photocopies of the "face" page, and the page(s) that show the visa and entry stamp(s). Some people carry the photocopies with them and keep the actual passport somewhere safe.

[Kerryd]

Another reason it would be illegal is that you have to give your passport to someone else to process the visa this way, and by law, you are required to have your passport with you at all times. (It's a minor point, and I highly doubt many long-stayers, or even tourists, carry their passports with them at all times).

I've also read somewhere (here ?) where it was quoted that it is illegal to have someone else arrange a visa for you (i.e. you are supposed to do it youself, in person). It is also in your best interest to do it yourself, and then you won't have to worry about getting caught with a "shady" (fake) visa (which has happened to some people).

Found the reference (one of them at least) to the fact you have to apply for your visa yourself (from the Pattaya Immigration website):

"If you wish to stay in Thailand after your visa has expired, contact the nearest immigration unit in person for advice.

Do not believe those who claim that can assist you to get immigration stamps without actual travel in and out of the kingdom. Such act is illegal and you will be prosecuted in accordance with Immigration Law."

[sniffdog]

===========================================================================

That post seemed to indicate a visa was being obtained from outside Thailand while passport holder was inside Thailand - which would make it invalid.

===========================================================================

No, not at all ..... the visa is converted from a visa exempt / Tourist visa to a non immigrant-O ... the passport doesn't 'travel' abroad at all.

Then after the three months, the bank book is presented again with the money still present. The whole process takes 3-4 days ....

===========================================================================

You now say this company is putting money into an account to make Immigration believe it belongs to passport holder.

===========================================================================

I do not believe the requirement is stated that he money has to be owned by the applicant ... I can also borrow money

from family or a friend ....

===========================================================================

Another reason it would be illegal is that you have to give your passport to someone else to process the visa this way, and by law, you are required to have your passport with you at all times.

===========================================================================

Nonsense .... never seen the employees of companies carrying around a bunch of passports of their client to process thier extensions collectively

at the immigration office Suan Phlu?