What Is The 90 Day Rule?

[reissuun]

what is the 90 day rule and the 6 month rule?

cheers!

[Crossy]

It's fairly simple.

The rule applies to visa exemption entries, i.e. the 30 day stamp certain nationalities are permitted when entering without a visa.

You are permitted a maximum of 90 days in Thailand using visa exemptions in a six month period. The six months starts with your first exemption entry. A new six month period starts six months later, this is not a rolling period. There is no limit to the number of entries you can make, just the number of days in the country.

A couple of quirks. If you exit and re-enter Thailand on the same day (border run) it counts as two days for counting (exit day and entry day). Also, if you enter just before the six month period is up, you will likely get stamped only up to the end of the period no matter how many days you're actually entitled to and will only get a full 30 days stamp when you do another border run (and a new six month period starts).

Entries with visas and extensions obtained at immigration do not count towards the 90 day total

Edited April 17, 2008 by Crossy

[Tomkagai]

what is the 90 day rule and the 6 month rule?

cheers!

Dont know of any 6 month rule....but on the 90 days think you are referring to the 90 day reporting....basically people with work permits or other visas which have permission to stay greater than 90 days in Thailand ,need to report to the immigration police to confirm their address...no big deal takes 5 minutes, not charged....if you dont report you are fined same as an over stay...

[Tywais]

I believe between you and Crossy the question, which ever way it was meant, was answered very well and covers both scenarios.

[jstumbo]

I think it is really stupid for them to have the 6 month periods starting from your first entry. What will they do in 10 years with someone that has a full passport with 100+ entry stamps for Thailand. They are going to have to look at all the pages, and decide which was your first entry after they started the policy. That is going to create a huge problem. Already it takes them a long time to have to look at all the stamps. Every month it will just take them longer and longer and longer. They really need to do this by computer. They have the entries in the computer, there is no reason why they cannot spend a few million and change the software so that it automatically reports the number of days remaining.

What day did this policy start on anyway? If I had to use a 30 day exempt entry, I would not have a clue as to when my 6 month period started.

[Tomkagai]

T.I.T....mate...T.I.T.

[reissuun]

It's fairly simple.

The rule applies to visa exemption entries, i.e. the 30 day stamp certain nationalities are permitted when entering without a visa.

You are permitted a maximum of 90 days in Thailand using visa exemptions in a six month period. The six months starts with your first exemption entry. A new six month period starts six months later, this is not a rolling period. There is no limit to the number of entries you can make, just the number of days in the country.

A couple of quirks. If you exit and re-enter Thailand on the same day (border run) it counts as two days for counting (exit day and entry day). Also, if you enter just before the six month period is up, you will likely get stamped only up to the end of the period no matter how many days you're actually entitled to and will only get a full 30 days stamp when you do another border run (and a new six month period starts).

Entries with visas and extensions obtained at immigration do not count towards the 90 day total

thank you for your reply. that explained it all to me. cheers!

[scyriacus]

It's fairly simple.

...The six months starts with your first exemption entry. A new six month period starts six months later, this is not a rolling period....

A couple of quirks. If you exit and re-enter Thailand on the same day (border run) it counts as two days for counting (exit day and entry day).... Entries with visas and extensions obtained at immigration do not count towards the 90 day total

"it's fairly simple" is a gross understatement, 'cause it's so complicated, that no one seems to know the rules! first ever? first after the new law? first in any calender year? first after a trip abroad (at what length)? first after some other kind of visa? first after the last refusal? and how can these people count one calender day as 2 days? fairly simple? rather not!

at least 6 different options for first! (if i haven't forgotten some) it's simply totally unclear, when these six month start and obviously cannot be clearified without 'tea money' which seems to be the only reason for that mess. why don't they say straight forward 180 calender days jan-dec or 90 days each jan-jun, jul-dec. would be too easy, wouldn't it?

btw: for my 5 minutes in malaysia i get 90 days without filling in any application at all and for free. (sounds too good to be true in thailand). the thais (....and we expats living there) are the laughingstock for the malaysian officers.

Edited April 17, 2008 by scyriacus

[Maestro]

...cannot be clearified without 'tea money' which seems to be the only reason for that mess...

At what immigration office or immigration checkpoint did you have to pay tea money to obtain clarification about the rule of maximum 90 days visa-exempt stay within six months?

--

Maestro

[Crossy]

"it's fairly simple" is a gross understatement, 'cause it's so complicated, that no one seems to know the rules! first ever? first after the new law? first in any calender year? first after a trip abroad (at what length)? first after some other kind of visa? first after the last refusal? and how can these people count one calender day as 2 days? fairly simple? rather not!

at least 6 different options for first! (if i haven't forgotten some) it's simply totally unclear, when these six month start

Officially it's the first entry after the new rules came in (brain fade, I don't remember the exact date).

A new six month period starts six months after that entry date or the next date of entry if this is more than six months later (this is unclear as it's not explicitly specified).

Both the entry and exit daya are counted in your 30 day permit, the result is that if you exit and re-enter on the same day, that day gets included in both periods (exit of the first, entry of the second).

I agree wholeheartedly that it's dumb and difficult impossible to enforce consistently.

NOTE any explanation/interpretation herein is based upon reports from people using (and abusing) the system, individual immigration officers may have their own interpretation although my 'fairly simple' explanation seems to be what's being used

Edited April 18, 2008 by Crossy

[Searat7]

what is the 90 day rule and the 6 month rule?

cheers!

Dont know of any 6 month rule....but on the 90 days think you are referring to the 90 day reporting....basically people with work permits or other visas which have permission to stay greater than 90 days in Thailand ,need to report to the immigration police to confirm their address...no big deal takes 5 minutes, not charged....if you dont report you are fined same as an over stay...

I have a retirement visa but I have never reported to Immigration (every 90 days) because I always travel outside of Thailand every 60-90 days. I am under the impression that reporting is not necessary unless your stay is over 90 days. Is this correct ?

[lopburi3]

That is correct - each entry starts a new count.

[seagull]

It's fairly simple.

The rule applies to visa exemption entries, i.e. the 30 day stamp certain nationalities are permitted when entering without a visa.

You are permitted a maximum of 90 days in Thailand using visa exemptions in a six month period. The six months starts with your first exemption entry. A new six month period starts six months later, this is not a rolling period. There is no limit to the number of entries you can make, just the number of days in the country.

A couple of quirks. If you exit and re-enter Thailand on the same day (border run) it counts as two days for counting (exit day and entry day). Also, if you enter just before the six month period is up, you will likely get stamped only up to the end of the period no matter how many days you're actually entitled to and will only get a full 30 days stamp when you do another border run (and a new six month period starts).

Entries with visas and extensions obtained at immigration do not count towards the 90 day total

Crossy, you got your eyes crossed here. You cannot refer to 90 days and then 6 months, as 6 months is 183 or 184 days depending on start of countdown. Many other posts also suggested 90 days as 3 months which is not true. 3 months is variated between 89 days to 92 days. Therefore, I do solemly believe that immigration count days, that is 180 days, and not the perceived convenient way of expressing 180 days as 6 months !

[lopburi3]

They count 6 months when talking about visa exempt entry.

[Lite Beer]

The rule is 6 months.

[jstumbo]

They count 6 months when talking about visa exempt entry.

Reading that rule, it almost seems like there could be an argument made that if you first entry was Jan 1, 2007 and you only stayed for 48 days during the next six months. Then you could come back as many times as you wanted later and do it as many times as you wanted.

It says "shall be permitted for multiple entry into Thailand, by permission of which must not exceed thirty days per entry", so of says that you can come multiple times, and no more than 30 days per entry, and then the next line says "with a total period of stay not exceeding ninety days within six months from the date of the first entry into the Kingdom". So I you came back on Jan 1, 2007 and my total period of stay during the six months from that first time I entered Thailand (Jan 1 - July 1) was not more than 90 days, then I should be fine in 2008 and the future for doing monthly border runs. It does not say that the 6 month period changes with time, it only says it is six months from my first entry into Thailand, and if I meet that requirement now, then I will forever meet it.

I imagine the Thai version is a little different?

[Tomkagai]

what is the 90 day rule and the 6 month rule?

cheers!

Dont know of any 6 month rule....but on the 90 days think you are referring to the 90 day reporting....basically people with work permits or other visas which have permission to stay greater than 90 days in Thailand ,need to report to the immigration police to confirm their address...no big deal takes 5 minutes, not charged....if you dont report you are fined same as an over stay...

I have a retirement visa but I have never reported to Immigration (every 90 days) because I always travel outside of Thailand every 60-90 days. I am under the impression that reporting is not necessary unless your stay is over 90 days. Is this correct ?

Yes you do if you intend to stay over 90 days been having to do this for the last 6 years...I am on a WP....only in the last 18 months - 2 years they have started imposing the fine if you dont report...before that report late and they will give you a rollocking...make you wait, generally mess you around, but no fines..

[lopburi3]

1. After six months a new entry starts a new 6 month period for visa exempt entry 90 day count.

2. Poster says they are always traveling with stays of less than 90 days so does not have to make the 90 day address report.

[jstumbo]

1. After six months a new entry starts a new 6 month period for visa exempt entry 90 day count.

Is that what the Thai version says, because I did not see that in the English excerpt you posted.

[Matt636]

It's fairly simple.

The rule applies to visa exemption entries, i.e. the 30 day stamp certain nationalities are permitted when entering without a visa.

You are permitted a maximum of 90 days in Thailand using visa exemptions in a six month period. The six months starts with your first exemption entry. A new six month period starts six months later, this is not a rolling period. There is no limit to the number of entries you can make, just the number of days in the country.

A couple of quirks. If you exit and re-enter Thailand on the same day (border run) it counts as two days for counting (exit day and entry day). Also, if you enter just before the six month period is up, you will likely get stamped only up to the end of the period no matter how many days you're actually entitled to and will only get a full 30 days stamp when you do another border run (and a new six month period starts).

Entries with visas and extensions obtained at immigration do not count towards the 90 day total

I am currently living in Chiang Mai and have been seeing clarification on these rules. In the attached file, I have detailed my entry and exit dates and based on the above rules, I believe I can continue using 30 day stamps as per the yellow cells. I had a few problems obtaining my last stamp as the officer said I had been here for 91 days. I argued as per the above rules and eventually got another stamp. I was planning on going to Vientien (can't spell) later this month to get a Visa but would like to avoid it if at all possible. I need to go back to the UK to work in early June (for a few months), so it would be ideal if I could just go to Mai Sai and get new entry stamps until then.

Q's

- Can I just use entry stamps?

- What happens if the officer in Mai Sai does not agree?

Thanks in advance, Matt

Entry_Stamps.xls

[jstumbo]

It should work as long as your entry in Sept 07 was your first entry into Thailand.

According to the rules, you would have a new 6 month period now. Hopefully the next immigration officer you get agrees with that. If they do not want to listen, then you could always work your way up the chain of command. Probably would not hurt to take a copy of the rules in Thai and English with you just in case.

[xtyke]

When the Thai immigration dept introduced the 90 day visa exempt limit (1^st Oct 2006), they gave an example of how it was to be calculated. They gave the dates of 7 separate visits by a tourist, along with the accrued 6-month total. These figures , except for one anomaly (which I put down to a typo), fitted exactly to a rolling 6-month model. The figures would certainly not fit the model(s) quoted on this thread. Does this mean that they now calculate the total in a different way – if so has this been documented? Does anyone have a copy of the original example? It does not really make sense to work on anything other than a rolling 6-month model. My two full passports are dotted with many Thai visa exempt stamps (in no chronological order). It would be impossible for an immigration officer manually to work out my stays on the model quoted on this thread. Difficult enough on a rolling 6-month system. Lopburi, you usually give the definitive answer, please help me make sense of all this. Whilst on the subject let me give my sincere thanks for all the useful information you have given and are still giving. It has proved invaluable in allowing me to be properly prepared for my visits to the authorities. You deserve a lite-beer, cheers.

[scyriacus]

...cannot be clearified without 'tea money' which seems to be the only reason for that mess...

At what immigration office or immigration checkpoint did you have to pay tea money to obtain clarification about the rule of maximum 90 days visa-exempt stay within six months?

--

Maestro

Sorry for the misunderstanding. BECAUSE i NEVER payed any tea-money, they gave me different explanations everytime i asked them and always to my disadvantage and even forced me into 'overstay'. could YOU wise guy please tell me the beginning of these ominous '6 month period'. and give a reliable source for it (maybe i get my money back). WITHOUT paying tea money there is OBVIOUSLY no way to get precise information. my usual checkpoint is khuan don in satun. i've tried it since 1.10.2006 (because i rather oblige to thai laws) but to no avail. and btw: did you know that there is neither prostitution nor corruption in this beautiful country!

[Maestro]

...could YOU wise guy please tell me the beginning of these ominous '6 month period'. and give a reliable source for it...

The only reliable, ie official, source of which I am aware is the Police Order No. 608/2549.

Original Thai text: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/rtp608.pdf

English translation: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/rtp608EN.pdf

I do not know what internal guidelines, if any, the Immigration Bureau has issued to the immigration officers, nor have I ever seen any mention of such internal guidelines.

What we have, above and beyond the published police order, are the posts of members here telling their personal experiences at the entry points they have used. Some posts mentioned that sometimes an official has difficulty counting the days of visa-exempt stays and figuring out to what six-month period to apply individual stays. I fear that such complications will continue as long as the police order remains in effect.

Some members have posted that they stopped using visa-exempt entries and are using tourist visas instead because of delays at the immigration desk.

--

Maestro

[xtyke]

­Further to my comments on post #22 above. After a lengthy trawl I found the example I quoted. I was somewhat dismayed to find it on the bottom of page 6 of the Royal Thai Consulate (UK) visa regulations ­­. Dismayed because I have heard the Hull Consulate information being described on this forum, ranging from ‘incorrect’ to ‘rubbish’. Nevertheless, they must have received guidelines from a central source and it is the only ‘official’ guide I have seen published. So it should at least be considered.

I give no apologies for rattling on about the subject but looking back on this forum to 1^st Oct 2006, it is one of the most frequently asked questions and is arguably one of the most important. It is equally important that the ‘experts’ advice is correct – so many of us rely on their guidance. Surely a forum with the clout of thaivisa.com should be able to check the validity of the published method and either (if correct) adopt it as the approved rationale for counting visa exempt days by TV.com or (if incorrect) urge Hull to delete it from their UK site.

Edited April 24, 2008 by xtyke

[jstumbo]

It does not really matter how the six month period is counted, it will not really affect people, people will just count their six months the way immigration says it is to be done. They will have to search through a passport and figure out which stamps are in the 6 month period anyway they want to set the six month period. I think the biggest problem is what happens when your visit crosses over from one six month period to another period. It is reported that sometimes they are only giving you the days until your six month period is to start. This is just crazy and will cause a problem for a lot of people.

[Maestro]

The simple fact is that there is no clearly defined published method for determining the 6-month period. It is only when a member who was given less than 30 days on a visa-exempt entry posts the explanation given to him by the immigration officer and gives full details of his various visa-exempt entry and exit dates that we can understand how that particular officer determined the 6-month period in that particular case.

--

Maestro

[bangon04]

When the Thai immigration dept introduced the 90 day visa exempt limit (1^st Oct 2006), they gave an example of how it was to be calculated. They gave the dates of 7 separate visits by a tourist, along with the accrued 6-month total. These figures , except for one anomaly (which I put down to a typo), fitted exactly to a rolling 6-month model. The figures would certainly not fit the model(s) quoted on this thread. Does this mean that they now calculate the total in a different way – if so has this been documented? Does anyone have a copy of the original example? It does not really make sense to work on anything other than a rolling 6-month model. My two full passports are dotted with many Thai visa exempt stamps (in no chronological order). It would be impossible for an immigration officer manually to work out my stays on the model quoted on this thread. Difficult enough on a rolling 6-month system. Lopburi, you usually give the definitive answer, please help me make sense of all this. Whilst on the subject let me give my sincere thanks for all the useful information you have given and are still giving. It has proved invaluable in allowing me to be properly prepared for my visits to the authorities. You deserve a lite-beer, cheers.

In my experience April 2007, i was stopped at BKK immigration and referred to a senior immigration officer because the desk official had counted more than 90 days using all her fingers and toes (very slowly with 2 recounts). The senior guy sat me down and explained the system to me as the above mentioned Rolling 6 month period. ie counting 6 month period from the first entry 6 months prior to that day eg I was stopped on the 10th April, so he went back and counted days from my entry on 14th October. In the end we did discover that the desk officer was a few toes short, so he gave me a stamp for a few days and advised me to do a border run. (He was sympathetic - nay almost apologetic - because I always enter/exit through BKK and I never stay for than 15-20 days at a time. He as good as said that this is not what they are looking for.

This year I was faced with the similar scenario - my solution was to renew my passport. No questions asked at all. Clearly they do not have computer access to previous stays. Either that or they are not worried about airport entry tourists.

Does anyone know of a situation where the computer records have indeed been used?

[bangon04]

When the Thai immigration dept introduced the 90 day visa exempt limit (1^st Oct 2006), they gave an example of how it was to be calculated. They gave the dates of 7 separate visits by a tourist, along with the accrued 6-month total. These figures , except for one anomaly (which I put down to a typo), fitted exactly to a rolling 6-month model. The figures would certainly not fit the model(s) quoted on this thread. Does this mean that they now calculate the total in a different way – if so has this been documented? Does anyone have a copy of the original example? It does not really make sense to work on anything other than a rolling 6-month model. My two full passports are dotted with many Thai visa exempt stamps (in no chronological order). It would be impossible for an immigration officer manually to work out my stays on the model quoted on this thread. Difficult enough on a rolling 6-month system. Lopburi, you usually give the definitive answer, please help me make sense of all this. Whilst on the subject let me give my sincere thanks for all the useful information you have given and are still giving. It has proved invaluable in allowing me to be properly prepared for my visits to the authorities. You deserve a lite-beer, cheers.

In my experience April 2007, i was stopped at BKK immigration and referred to a senior immigration officer because the desk official had counted more than 90 days using all her fingers and toes (very slowly with 2 recounts). The senior guy sat me down and explained the system to me as the above mentioned Rolling 6 month period. ie counting 6 month period from the first entry 6 months prior to that day eg I was stopped on the 10th April, so he went back and counted days from my entry on 14th October. In the end we did discover that the desk officer was a few toes short, so he gave me a stamp for a few days and advised me to do a border run. (He was sympathetic - nay almost apologetic - because I always enter/exit through BKK and I never stay for than 15-20 days at a time. He as good as said that this is not what they are looking for.

This year I was faced with the similar scenario - my solution was to renew my passport. No questions asked at all. Clearly they do not have computer access to previous stays. Either that or they are not worried about airport entry tourists.

Or of course, working on the TiT principle, the enforcement order is now more than a year old, so nobody feels the need to enforce it so much....change of government, etc...

[IgnacioE]

The simple fact is that there is no clearly defined published method for determining the 6-month period. It is only when a member who was given less than 30 days on a visa-exempt entry posts the explanation given to him by the immigration officer and gives full details of his various visa-exempt entry and exit dates that we can understand how that particular officer determined the 6-month period in that particular case.

--

Maestro

It's so incredible that so much is written EVERYWHERE on Thai immigration and visas, and still it's a moving target all of the time. A couple of friends of mine that are so-called experts miss stuff (suggestions, strategies, etc.) continuously; I've mostly had to learn the hard way at every step of the way.

My only comment about the 90 day rule is that the customs guys are counting. When I left Thailand last week and went through customs in Phuket, I was on the exact last day of my 3rd 30 day tourist visa (which is why I was on my way to KL to get my 1 yr non-O) and the guy gave me a mini-scolding which I couldn't understand but he pointed his finger at me and mentioned 'Myanmar' (my one visa run to Ranong) so I gathered that he was telling me that I used up all my tourist visa time.

One other point: the non-Imm O application has a section for "Have you ever overstayed in Thailand?". Don't know if it makes a difference, but it's on the form.

Just my $.02 worth.