Thai Massage

[lightstar]

Hey all,

had a Thai massage yesterday, in which I was streched, yanked, pressed and prodded. Same as usual -bit painful at the time - but more so as I really don't think the girl knew what she was doing...

She seemed to think that the more pressure she applied the better...

...to the extent that I thought she was gonna pull the skin and muscles away from my spine. She actually tried to yank my fingers out of their sockets too - the joints refused to click, and she wasn't gonna give up until they did...!

I'd told her that I have a stiff neck. This just meant that she applied even more pressure... I told her it was painful, and she just giggled and continued on.

I went to a nice spa for this - torture!

I wonder what damage these girl could do (if someone has muscles imbalances, or existing weaknesses - which so many of us have these days, what with sitting at desks, and not getting enough exercise and such) with one of these 'treatments'.

ARe there any 'experts' on Thai massage who have info...

Does it address stiff necks / muscles imbalances and the like?

Do they adjust what they are doing to work on specific areas (like knots) as a trained Sweedish massuese would do?

Or is it just 'one massage suits all'?

Are they 'trained' (I use the word very loosely) to spot problems - alignement issues / lumps / muscle imbalances?

If anyone has any training or knowledge of Thai massage, I'd be interested to find out what exactly the 'science' is behind a GOOD Thai massage.

I assume it was a system developed years ago, with anatomy and physiology in mind, but does anyone know how it works, and the effectiveness of it?

It doesn't seem to address relaxing the mind in any way. Switching off and entering a deep state of relaxation isn't the aim of it in the same way that Western traditional massages do.

Did it begin in Thailand, or does it have links to Chinese medicine as it uses a pressure point system?

Is there only one method?

Rather than an oil massage (of which I've had soooooo many bad ones in Thailand) I thought Thai massueses would at least be able to give a good Thai massage! It got me thinking of the young Aussie girl who ended up being unable to move from her neck down a couple of days later. If it can happen in Oz then I'm sure it must also happen here... a lot!

Does anyone know any stories of people suffering as a result of a 'bad' massage?

If massueses here are not licensed and there doesn't seem to be any national accreditation system either, I guess you always run the risk... how is one to tell who is a good masseuse? Is Wat Po training all it's cracked up to be?

[Mosha]

There are courses for the messeuses to go on, my wife's cousin has done such a course, and a girl I knew had also been on one of these courses. They are supposed to take notes, and the latter did have a booklet in with diagrams, showing what areas to work on.

[toptuan]

I chuckled all the way through the first part of the OP's message.

I've had two Thai massages in five years, one of them at famed Wat Po in BKK, and they were the worst painful experiences ever.

"It doesn't seem to address relaxing the mind in any way. Switching off and entering a deep state of relaxation isn't the aim of it in the same way that Western traditional massages do." Yeah, no $hit, Sherlock! With Thai massages, I spend the whole time on the stressful edge of wondering if the next pull or applied pressure is going to break something or stretch something else so far it will never be the same again....I'm an emotional basket case by the end of the treatment.

I know Thai massage is world-renowned. It's me--I just don't get it.

[pampal]

I like Thai massages, no pain no gain

[lightstar]

No pain, no gain... !!! Jeeze, so many professional massagers would be shocked by that statement!

Should massage be 'painful' ! ! ! ? ? ?

And is that 'pain' actually doing you good? If anyone has actual 'evidence' I'd love to read it.

It's like doing a yoga class, and having an untrained / badly trained teacher force you into positions that your physically CAN'T get into, because you don't have adequate flexibility... it causes SO many injuries that yoga can actually be bad for you!!!

Are these massueses aware of that when they are pulling you into all kinds of positions. i.d: is it part of their training?

[rick75]

Yeh Thai massage can be a little hit and miss, but luckly I have pretty much only had good ones, a little painfull look usually does the job if they are too heavy, but i can say 100% they are great for your flexibility and as pampal said " no pain no gain"

[rick75]

Lightstar , I would say that strectching is supposed to hurt, so long as they know how to stretch you and apply a slow increase in pressure its cool, you are going to mainly have problems if they get to the point of muscle resistance and start bouncing the stretch. IMHO

[steveromagnino]

No pain, no gain... !!! Jeeze, so many professional massagers would be shocked by that statement!

given the amount of research outlining how little good massage and various other manipulations supposedly do, one could level the same sorts of charges at so called 'professional massagers' as well.

But then again, perhaps the Thai massagers are still keeping their amateur status for the massage olympics and are therefore some lower form of massager??!

Thai massage certainly doesn't feel comfortable to me....neither did western massage/physiotherapy - both remarkably unpleasant and I'd put any forms of Yoga right alongside them. I dislike any feelings of stretching, foreign hands on my body and manipulations.

I do feel better, despite science telling me I shouldn't.

but at least for me....no pain no gain applies to all of them.

And yes, the so called 'professional massager' worked with athletes as high as national level, I think they were supposed to know what they were doing.

[lightstar]

massage olympics... wha???

[Cuban]

I guess like many (men) coming to Thailand land for the first time I started out having a massage from a Thai lady, normally cute looking. I quickly progressed to heavier women that could apply greater pressure with their weight. Now I prefer a man being able to apply greater pressure and is more aware of the male body. Not a gay thing at all just better than most of the women I have encountered in the past, some of which were truely dire.

As for pulling fingers and toes - I simple tell them that I don't like that at the start of the session - there is no benifit in 'cracking' joints like this.

As for pain, I now like a strong massage - not sure if it is the depth of the massage or the resultant release of endorphins but I feel great afterwards.

For some of the acrobatics that uses the subject's body weight to 'stress' joints it really (IMHO) requires that a man administer the massage to another man. As for the walking on the spine/back by a 50-60kg girl I have tried it but considered that the risk of (serious) injury far outways the cute-idea factor that seemed to be the only benifit that this massage variation offered.

As for finding a good one, just ask for a short 30 minute session to test the quaility of the service offered - the only way to find one that suits your needs. I would suggest that a larger center with onsite training might be able to offer a better/consistant service between masseurs.

For me I prefer to be just out of the main tourist strip as many of those places seem to just offer little more than a back rub and try to promote oil massage as it allows them to charge more and is less work, also the tourist places are busy/noisy - when I go in for two hours I want it to be quiet.

[mahtin]

My wife did the Wat Po course, and has the certificate, with photo, to prove it. You may have seen them, framed, hanging proudly on the massage places' walls.

Far be it from me to criticize any of the revered Thai institutions and great traditions.

But... a couple of points, or three.

1. Dual pricing. My wife is Thai, one price. Farang pay more.

2. Duration of course. Optional, one or two weeks.

3. Same certificate. If you attend, you get it.

So, if you feel not quite reassured by the fact that your masseuse has done a week at Wat Po to earn that qualification hanging on the wall, you might be advised to say to her, "Not strong."

[TheDon]

man i get one every week, i love a strong massage, nobody seems to do it hard enough for me, massages arent painful, stop being SOFT

[steveromagnino]

massage olympics... wha???

professional massager comment - as you may be aware the Olympics are mostly amateur; seems a strange use of words to imply that there is a group of massagers out there that are professional; it is not a profession that i am aware of (architecture, engineering, medicine = professions, ) perhaps a trade.

If however, we mean professional as in working for pay, then I really don't see how a Thai massager is different to someone else.

By then again, your opinion or choice of words may differ!

Edited April 22, 2008 by steveromagnino

[JetsetBkk]

...As for pulling fingers and toes - I simple tell them that I don't like that at the start of the session - there is no benifit in 'cracking' joints like this...

Me too, same reason - no benefit.

[girlx]

it's really hit or miss with thai massage- i love them, i used to get them daily... some masseuses do it correctly though and some don't. the best ones i have had were around khao san road (pian's in the alley off khao san next to susie's pub and sabai massage or something like that on soi chanasongkhram). but even in those places there is at least one person i dread getting assigned to. it helps it you totally relax yourself and breath deeply- if you tense up it just makes things worse.

wat po was probably the worst massage i have had- though some of the ones on koh phangan are just girls who throw up a fake certificate and have no idea what they are doing.

[popshirt]

My weekly special time is when I go for an hour long foot massage from a masseur who REALLY knows about foot reflexology. He has a certificate from the Thai Traditional Medicine Society and also has trained at Wat Po.

The hour I spend with his ministrations to the soles of my feet, especially, seems to relax and refresh my entire body.

It took me a long time to find this person; I tried many others and most were so-so or ineffective at their work.

With him, I feel a strength that comes from his body through his arms and hands. He is also completely mindful of his work, with no distractions.

It is probably the thing I would miss most about Thailand if I were to move to another country.

As for the Thai full body massage, I can take it or leave it.

[Datsun240Z]

I do think there's nothing wrong with it..some are yes...really worse. But there are many good ones!! You have to relax yourself or it will hurt sometimes and you won't enjoy it.

I tried many...yes;) It's relaxing for me. Sometimes i like the Thai one and sometimes the one with oil is also nice ass wel.

Edited April 22, 2008 by Datsun240Z

[isabelle17]

Thai massage is okay....because I don't really like soft massages. But I do agree that Thai massage can be a bit too "rough." I had my dad experience a Thai massage and it was too painful for him, but I was fine! Maybe it's not as good for the older folks!

I really want a massage now!

[Pepe']

Hey all,

had a Thai massage yesterday, in which I was streched, yanked, pressed and prodded. Same as usual -bit painful at the time - but more so as I really don't think the girl knew what she was doing...

p--- Most are poorly trained.

She seemed to think that the more pressure she applied the better...

p--- I first trained here in the states, in San Diego for 12 weeks. I trained at the Old Medicine Hospital in Chiang Mai for one month as well, too instructor level.

That was about fifteen years ago. I teach Nuad Boran style here in the states.

...to the extent that I thought she was gonna pull the skin and muscles away from my spine. She actually tried to yank my fingers out of their sockets too - the joints refused to click, and she wasn't gonna give up until they did...!

p---Bad training and practitioner. People in the south have a heavier technique

than the north trditionaly.

I'd told her that I have a stiff neck. This just meant that she applied even more pressure... I told her it was painful, and she just giggled and continued on.

I went to a nice spa for this - torture!

I wonder what damage these girl could do (if someone has muscles imbalances, or existing weaknesses - which so many of us have these days, what with sitting at desks, and not getting enough exercise and such) with one of these 'treatments'.

p--- A lot of damage can be done with improper Thai massage.

ARe there any 'experts' on Thai massage who have info...

p--- I believe I am expert by now.

Does it address stiff necks / muscles imbalances and the like?

p---Yes always always say, bow,bow, soft soft/

Do they adjust what they are doing to work on specific areas (like knots) as a trained Sweedish massuese would do?

p--- A good practitioner can do some of that.

Or is it just 'one massage suits all'?

p--- No, time, circumstance, age, injuries, and constitution of the client must be considered. Of course in LOS it rarely is.

Are they 'trained' (I use the word very loosely) to spot problems - alignement issues / lumps / muscle imbalances?

p---Some but not much. The best training I had was here in the states.

If anyone has any training or knowledge of Thai massage, I'd be interested to find out what exactly the 'science' is behind a GOOD Thai massage.

p--- google sen lines +thai massge you should get some hits.

I assume it was a system developed years ago, with anatomy and physiology in mind, but does anyone know how it works, and the effectiveness of it?

p---Properly done very effective.

It doesn't seem to address relaxing the mind in any way. Switching off and entering a deep state of relaxation isn't the aim of it in the same way that Western traditional massages do.

p--- We would go for three hour massages and fall asleep several times. It's an incredible feeling to wakeup while recieving Thai massge.

Did it begin in Thailand, or does it have links to Chinese medicine as it uses a pressure point system?

p---Actually it is linked to Ayurvedic medicine from India.

Is there only one method?

p---Basically there is one system just that the southern style uses a much stronger technique.

Rather than an oil massage (of which I've had soooooo many bad ones in Thailand) I thought Thai massueses would at least be able to give a good Thai massage! It got me thinking of the young Aussie girl who ended up being unable to move from her neck down a couple of days later. If it can happen in Oz then I'm sure it must also happen here... a lot!

p---Yes it does.

Does anyone know any stories of people suffering as a result of a 'bad' massage?

p--- Yes I know several all from poor Thai massge.

If massueses here are not licensed and there doesn't seem to be any national accreditation system either, I guess you always run the risk... how is one to tell who is a good masseuse? Is Wat Po training all it's cracked up to be?

---------------------

Wat Po is "suppossed" to be the best. There is an "effort" from the Thai government to standardize the training and increase the number of therapists.

But like most education in Thailand right now it's not very good.

The best massage I used to get were from my ex-mother-in-law and two of her maids all at the same time.

Nice, very nice...

[bonviveur]

I like strong Thai massage but only got two so far and each time they had to wake me because I was snoring or they touch sensitive part of my body, I am very tickelish that is why i have done only two.

[Ijustwannateach]

I quite enjoy strong Thai massage, but I am a large fellow and most masseurs are not too strong by my standards (they generally wind up walking on my back before I really feel it- elbows and knees on the back do pretty well, too).

There is a great deal of difference in quality, perception, and ability among various different masseurs. I find it's worth the search for a good one, though. Great to get the tension out of the neck, shoulders, and legs!

That said, nothing beats massage by someone who really knows you well and knows just where the stress builds up. One of my friends does amazing things with the temples, the neck, and- though it sounds odd- the area around the eyes when he gives a massage. Needless to say, it's not a zone I'd trust just anyone to touch.

"S"

[Pepe']

I quite enjoy strong Thai massage, but I am a large fellow and most masseurs are not too strong by my standards (they generally wind up walking on my back before I really feel it- elbows and knees on the back do pretty well, too).

There is a great deal of difference in quality, perception, and ability among various different masseurs. I find it's worth the search for a good one, though. Great to get the tension out of the neck, shoulders, and legs!

That said, nothing beats massage by someone who really knows you well and knows just where the stress builds up. One of my friends does amazing things with the temples, the neck, and- though it sounds odd- the area around the eyes when he gives a massage. Needless to say, it's not a zone I'd trust just anyone to touch.

"S"

-----------------

I like deep massage as well. It depends though. If I'm very tight I can go into spasm from deep work so it may take a little while to warm/loosen up...

[lightstar]

Thanks Pepe,

That was exactly what I was looking for.

Am currently googling sen lines + Thai massage.

Cheers for that. Very interesting.

[lightstar]

Thai Massage Pitfalls

1. Forced Bending Forward

Your discs are tough cushions between each bone of your spine from your neck to low back. When you slouch forward, the front of each vertebrae comes together and the back of each moves further apart, making room for the disc to slide backward.

From slouching, year after year, the front of the disc gets squashed and compressed. But the serious damage occurs toward the back, where the disc can bulge out in back, like a water balloon that is squeezed in front. If you have a disc that is already degenerating from slouching, it often does not take much more force to make it herniate. This can come from bending over one more time, or being bent forward, especially with extra weight as from lifting a backpack, or force from someone pushing you into a forward stretch. The two common places for a disc to herniate are your neck and low back.

This is a side view of two vertebrae with a disc in between. On the left is a normal positioned spine with the healthy disc in between. On the right is what happens after years of bending forward so that the disc becomes pushed to the back. This is a herniation.

One Thai massage position involves having you sit, with the practitioner sitting behind you, putting their arm under your arm then around the back of your neck. In wrestling, this move is called a half-Nelson. This move is used to bend your neck forward. From there, the practitioner may push your back and neck forward, often leaning their weight to assist your forward movement. Don't let people push your back or neck to round forward, whether to stretch or to make a cracking noise. Avoid manipulation to the neck, which has been found to sometimes tear the blood vessels leading to the brain. There have been deaths and even Western chiropractors have been cautioned not to crack the neck.

2. Forced Bending Forward With Twist

A second assisted stretch to avoid is similar to the move above. In a sitting position with the practitioner sitting, behind you or to the side, they may put both arms under your arms then around the back of your neck, in a move that in the West is called a "full-Nelson." From there they may swing you slightly to the side, then again with a wider swing, then a third time with force. This sometimes makes a cracking noise in your back. Anatomically, the greatest force you can put on your discs and low back is bending forward with a twist.

3. Snapping Elbows or Knee Backward.

Sometimes in the course of a massage, the practitioner may bend your elbow or knee, then straighten it too far with a snap. For example, they may bend your knee toward your chest, then hold your heel and let the leg drop straight, letting the force snap the knee. They may even push your elbow or knee backward to assist the overly extended position. The elbow and knee are not shaped to hyper-extend. Hyperextension means to go more than a normally straight position. It can damage the joint and strain the cartilage. No joint should be snapped.

4. Blood Stop

An interesting and thought-provoking maneuver in Thai massage is the "blood–stop." The practitioner may press their palms, knees, elbows, forearms, shins, or feet over the big blood vessels that bring blood to your legs, or over the arteries that conduct blood to your arms. They press enough to slow or stop blood from flowing to your legs or arms as long as 30 seconds, a minute, sometimes more, depending on the style and school where they learned. When they release the pressure that was restricting the blood, blood flows back down the limbs in a warm rush that some people enjoy. Thai massage practitioners are taught to never do the blood stop on anyone with high blood pressure, varicose veins, heart or circulatory problems, or pregnancy. But it turns out that it is also not healthy for others.

It is often taught in massage schools that the blood stop helps unplug clogged arteries. The theory is that if there were deposits that block the artery, the rush of blood returning would "unplug" the blockage and carry it away, like cleaning a clogged plumbing pipe. This does not work for several reasons. First, the rise in blood pressure from stopping (or slowing) blood flow is small and not enough to dislodge anything when flow is released. You increase your own blood pressure more from ordinary walking and exercise. Next, even if it could dislodge anything, anything that dislodges from your big blood vessels can travel to a smaller place to become a foreign clog there - in the same way that damage occurs from a brain clot or heart attack or phlebitis.

Another idea taught is that slowing arterial blood helps draw away "stagnant" venous blood from the limbs. This is not how circulation works, even if it sounds good. Even though the blood stop will not help, you can easily do exercise that improves circulation both arterial and venous. When you exercise, the contracting muscles squeeze your limb vessels and push blood that pools in the limbs.

Another of the theories of the blood stop that is sometimes taught in massage schools is that it helps counter the phenomenon of "legs falling asleep" during long sitting or meditation. The belief is that "legs falling asleep" is caused by lack of blood flow, and the blood stop will strengthen or increase circulation to alleviate that problem in the future. A little knowledge of physiology shows why neither is true. Compressing arteries to slow or stop blood does not cause any increase in the number or size of blood vessels, or ability to pump blood, any more than having clogged arteries improves circulation. The blood stop does not reroute the blood or encourage the body to find new pathways which give circulatory benefit. Exercise will increase all these good things, but doing the blood stop does not, even if we wish it does, or were taught that it does. Next, when a limb "falls asleep" it is not lack of blood flow, but nerve compression. There is no reduction in blood flow when you get the tingling and the "pins and needles" feeling of a limb falling asleep. The tingling is called neuropraxia, which just means a temporary interruption of sending nerve signals resulting in pins and needles feeling. During the blood stop maneuver, there is no pins and needles feeling, and when you stand up after your legs "fall asleep" there is no warm rush of blood as after the blood stop. They are two different things.

The next problem is an interesting phenomenon. When you stop blood to an area, it is not healthy for the area. Cells starve. Nerve cells are the most sensitive of all body cells to lack of oxygen. Thai massage practitioners are sometimes taught that it is not stopping blood but "opening the wind" to release stagnant blood or energy. Still, no matter what you call it, lack of blood flow is not great for any body area. Then the interesting paradox occurs. When blood flow, called perfusion, is restored to any body area that was deprived, oxygen flows back into the area. That would sound helpful, but the oxygen itself causes a second injury. It floods the area with a kind of oxygen that is not healthy along with other harmful products. It causes a serious injury called a reperfusion injury. This same kind of injury occurs with heart attack or in a limb that may have been crushed or caught under something, depriving it of blood. First, areas of the heart or the limb that are shut off from oxygen begin to die. When blood flow is restored, oxygen flows back into the area and with it, and a cascade of oxygen damage.

[jstumbo]

I get oil massages 2-3 times a week. The owner of one the factories that my company purchases from in Thailand also owns a massage place on Ratchada next to the Emerald Hotel. It is not one of the Turkish Bath places, but the girls offer you special services. I was never interested in the special services and we let it be known that I was just looking for a very good massage. They have a VIP room with several mats, a lounge area with TV, a sauna, private bathroom/shower. We go there when we are both getting a massage. I just use a regular massage room when I go by myself. I tried the Thai massage at first, but did not like it. Too much bending, twisting. I switched to the oil massages, because they oil you up and really work the muscles. I went through several girls until I found one that I liked, and now I always request her from the fishbowl. I never have to pay for the massages, but I do usually tip her 500 baht for the massage because she could make more with special services with other customers if I was not "wasting" her time.

Edited April 23, 2008 by jstumbo

[TheDon]

a foot massage is GREAT when you have had a long day, its almost better then sex

[naka]

I hate a massage ... But will put up with it for the happy ending.

Naka.

[Pepe']

Thai Massage Pitfalls

1. Forced Bending Forward

Your discs are tough cushions between each bone of your spine from your neck to low back. When you slouch forward, the front of each vertebrae comes together and the back of each moves further apart, making room for the disc to slide backward.

From slouching, year after year, the front of the disc gets squashed and compressed. But the serious damage occurs toward the back, where the disc can bulge out in back, like a water balloon that is squeezed in front. If you have a disc that is already degenerating from slouching, it often does not take much more force to make it herniate. This can come from bending over one more time, or being bent forward, especially with extra weight as from lifting a backpack, or force from someone pushing you into a forward stretch. The two common places for a disc to herniate are your neck and low back.

This is a side view of two vertebrae with a disc in between. On the left is a normal positioned spine with the healthy disc in between. On the right is what happens after years of bending forward so that the disc becomes pushed to the back. This is a herniation.

One Thai massage position involves having you sit, with the practitioner sitting behind you, putting their arm under your arm then around the back of your neck. In wrestling, this move is called a half-Nelson. This move is used to bend your neck forward. From there, the practitioner may push your back and neck forward, often leaning their weight to assist your forward movement. Don't let people push your back or neck to round forward, whether to stretch or to make a cracking noise. Avoid manipulation to the neck, which has been found to sometimes tear the blood vessels leading to the brain. There have been deaths and even Western chiropractors have been cautioned not to crack the neck.

2. Forced Bending Forward With Twist

A second assisted stretch to avoid is similar to the move above. In a sitting position with the practitioner sitting, behind you or to the side, they may put both arms under your arms then around the back of your neck, in a move that in the West is called a "full-Nelson." From there they may swing you slightly to the side, then again with a wider swing, then a third time with force. This sometimes makes a cracking noise in your back. Anatomically, the greatest force you can put on your discs and low back is bending forward with a twist.

3. Snapping Elbows or Knee Backward.

Sometimes in the course of a massage, the practitioner may bend your elbow or knee, then straighten it too far with a snap. For example, they may bend your knee toward your chest, then hold your heel and let the leg drop straight, letting the force snap the knee. They may even push your elbow or knee backward to assist the overly extended position. The elbow and knee are not shaped to hyper-extend. Hyperextension means to go more than a normally straight position. It can damage the joint and strain the cartilage. No joint should be snapped.

4. Blood Stop

An interesting and thought-provoking maneuver in Thai massage is the "blood–stop." The practitioner may press their palms, knees, elbows, forearms, shins, or feet over the big blood vessels that bring blood to your legs, or over the arteries that conduct blood to your arms. They press enough to slow or stop blood from flowing to your legs or arms as long as 30 seconds, a minute, sometimes more, depending on the style and school where they learned. When they release the pressure that was restricting the blood, blood flows back down the limbs in a warm rush that some people enjoy. Thai massage practitioners are taught to never do the blood stop on anyone with high blood pressure, varicose veins, heart or circulatory problems, or pregnancy. But it turns out that it is also not healthy for others.

It is often taught in massage schools that the blood stop helps unplug clogged arteries. The theory is that if there were deposits that block the artery, the rush of blood returning would "unplug" the blockage and carry it away, like cleaning a clogged plumbing pipe. This does not work for several reasons. First, the rise in blood pressure from stopping (or slowing) blood flow is small and not enough to dislodge anything when flow is released. You increase your own blood pressure more from ordinary walking and exercise. Next, even if it could dislodge anything, anything that dislodges from your big blood vessels can travel to a smaller place to become a foreign clog there - in the same way that damage occurs from a brain clot or heart attack or phlebitis.

Another idea taught is that slowing arterial blood helps draw away "stagnant" venous blood from the limbs. This is not how circulation works, even if it sounds good. Even though the blood stop will not help, you can easily do exercise that improves circulation both arterial and venous. When you exercise, the contracting muscles squeeze your limb vessels and push blood that pools in the limbs.

Another of the theories of the blood stop that is sometimes taught in massage schools is that it helps counter the phenomenon of "legs falling asleep" during long sitting or meditation. The belief is that "legs falling asleep" is caused by lack of blood flow, and the blood stop will strengthen or increase circulation to alleviate that problem in the future. A little knowledge of physiology shows why neither is true. Compressing arteries to slow or stop blood does not cause any increase in the number or size of blood vessels, or ability to pump blood, any more than having clogged arteries improves circulation. The blood stop does not reroute the blood or encourage the body to find new pathways which give circulatory benefit. Exercise will increase all these good things, but doing the blood stop does not, even if we wish it does, or were taught that it does. Next, when a limb "falls asleep" it is not lack of blood flow, but nerve compression. There is no reduction in blood flow when you get the tingling and the "pins and needles" feeling of a limb falling asleep. The tingling is called neuropraxia, which just means a temporary interruption of sending nerve signals resulting in pins and needles feeling. During the blood stop maneuver, there is no pins and needles feeling, and when you stand up after your legs "fall asleep" there is no warm rush of blood as after the blood stop. They are two different things.

The next problem is an interesting phenomenon. When you stop blood to an area, it is not healthy for the area. Cells starve. Nerve cells are the most sensitive of all body cells to lack of oxygen. Thai massage practitioners are sometimes taught that it is not stopping blood but "opening the wind" to release stagnant blood or energy. Still, no matter what you call it, lack of blood flow is not great for any body area. Then the interesting paradox occurs. When blood flow, called perfusion, is restored to any body area that was deprived, oxygen flows back into the area. That would sound helpful, but the oxygen itself causes a second injury. It floods the area with a kind of oxygen that is not healthy along with other harmful products. It causes a serious injury called a reperfusion injury. This same kind of injury occurs with heart attack or in a limb that may have been crushed or caught under something, depriving it of blood. First, areas of the heart or the limb that are shut off from oxygen begin to die. When blood flow is restored, oxygen flows back into the area and with it, and a cascade of oxygen damage.

-----------------

Excellent post. I teach a version that does not include the blood stop or the extreme spinal bending. I personally have never liked those moves.

Being a physician I have always been concerned about the possible risks.

I teach Pathology currently and have taught Anatomy and Physiology in the past.

Excellent research. What's the source?

[Jai Dee]

What's the source?

Good point.

Having been a "Thai massage junkie" for at least the past 6 years, I also would like to know if there are any other medically-accredited objections or warnings about Thai massage.

One thing that we (as Westerners) tend to forget... our bodies are not only physically different from the average Thai frame, but our flexibility and "muscle-training" is also vastly different from Thais.

For example, I have never been trained as a youngster to squat as Thais do. It bloody hurts! My knees simply cannot handle the stress, and I suffer pain as a result. Thais are different... they have been trained from an early age to adopt these positions and their bodies can assume postures that the average Westerner cannot adopt for long periods of time.

Consider carefully when you opt for a full 2 hour Thai massage... how flexible and amenable your body would be... to a trained (at Wat Po or equivalent) Thais masseur(se), who has been trained to perform his/her art on a Thai physique.

I personally have found most genuine accredited (certificate on the wall c/w photo type) masseur(s) to be genuinely concerned and understanding about your physical and muscular constraints... and will work within them.

The result... ?

A rewarding and refreshing experience that is uniquely shared between you and your masseur(se)... and ultimately rejuvenating and relaxing for your body.

The trick...?

Go back... to him/her again specifically... ask for them by name/number.

And... give them a tip.

[DragonQuest]

Wat Po is the best thai-massage , you should try it. I believe its a thai-school for massage , where they learn how to do it by tradition.

Edited April 23, 2008 by DragonQuest