Sin Sod - Amounts Asked For -vs- Paid And Changes?

[Mossfinn]

How many bloody sinsod discussions do we need?

Ad Nauseum it would appear

Moss

[britmaveric]

But ozzydom, it's the other way round surely.

It's only the fact that a discerning and intelligent chap like me hangs around in TV, that keeps the forum alive . . .

It's a heavy burden, but it's one I'm prepared to shoulder with stoicism.

Ah bendix,you have a way with words,thats exactly what I meant to say,but you put it so much better.

Get a room and get on with it!!!

[dee123]

....I couldn't resist at having another Sinsod rant it keeps my blood pressure stable

[colino]

Thai Women want a western lifestyle but also wants a Thai Sin sod payment, No Way

Can you define western lifestyle for me?

Yeah easy

1 having a sofa

2 having a proper bed to sleep on

3 not having to go and work 10 hours aday for 200 baht

4 not having to worry about bills again

5 not having to sit in a field all day watching the bufflo

and being able to

6 show her gold off to her mates

7 show her new car off to her mates

8 show off her new moped to her mates

9 oh yeah dont forget her lastest top of the range mobile as well

10 and being able to sit on her arse all night watching Thai soaps

And she wants us to pay to marry her

i will stop there as this could go on all night

[a2396]

From what I understand about the Thai dowery system is that it's only paid once. If she's been married before or lived with someone prior then it's not expected to be paid a second time. But they'll never tell you in the hope you're ignorant enough to pay it again.

"But they'll never tell you in the hope you're ignorant enough to pay it again." EXACTLY RIGHT!! So, the chances of getting suckered are very high. I have known several who have had kids, been married before, etc, who were asking sin sod & expected to get it. There's enough unsuspecting foreign chumps, "getting off the boat" here everyday for them to get away with it. The half-baked marriage brokers also do a great job of perpetuating this so-called "cultural tradition".

[ozzydom]

But ozzydom, it's the other way round surely.

It's only the fact that a discerning and intelligent chap like me hangs around in TV, that keeps the forum alive . . .

It's a heavy burden, but it's one I'm prepared to shoulder with stoicism.

Ah bendix,you have a way with words,thats exactly what I meant to say,but you put it so much better.

Get a room and get on with it!!!

I will try to find a "tongue in cheek" smiley just for you brit.

[Heng]

Use something that they can't use but still shows some of your life's financial accomplishments (presuming that you have some): like say title deeds of property from your own country, a title deed to a condo you might own here, stock certificates, etc. When they say 1 million, say 5 million or 10 million, etc. of whatever the amount of assets you can show that you have. You have nothing to lose and if they are honest folks, they should be more than happy with the outcome.

[Travel2003]

The sin sod negotiation was kinda one sided. One million was asked for and my head turned red and I didn't say anything.

What, you didn't walk out of the room laughing uncontrollably. I would have and never returned any of their pleading phone calls!

Yep! Same here. What a ridiculus sum.

Ahh, you are a westerner, so suddenly our daughter is now more valuable for the family.

The good old greedy "skin tax".

Btw,

my wife did not want to have a traditional wedding. Let's save the money for a rainy day, she said.

The family never asked for anything either. Which made me even more happy to help them with whatever they needed.

[distortedlink]

One of my long ago previous Thai girlfriend's family asked me for a sin-sod, so I responded with the traditional old English expression and told them to sod-off.

Idiots never listen to advice or use common sense, they only learn by experience.

Edited May 4, 2008 by distortedlink

[Dakhar]

i as a farang was never asked for sinsod,but my sister in laws husband to be who is thai is giving her mum 1.5 million bhat.

she is quite well educated and speaks fluent english ,they both have leave to remain in britain as he was born there.

personally although i have nothing against a bar girl i think any guy who pays sinsod for one with a baby is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Does she have good teeth? How is he back? Is she a little bow legged?

Geez...

I didn't pay a dime in sinsod, my wife is educated both in Thailand and in the US... and her mommy would have to scratch my cherry sack before I would even consider paying a stang for her daughter.

As stupid as the mil is, it is amazing her daughter is failry smart.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

i as a farang was never asked for sinsod,but my sister in laws husband to be who is thai is giving her mum 1.5 million bhat.

she is quite well educated and speaks fluent english ,they both have leave to remain in britain as he was born there.

personally although i have nothing against a bar girl i think any guy who pays sinsod for one with a baby is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Is that sin sod refundable or is the guy a bit thick ?

[Larryst]

I think everything is negotiable here in Thailand.

From what I have heard. Or I could be wrong (again).

1. If married before the family already got the Sin Sod from the first marriage. So payment is not needed.

2. If she's not a virgin. Then Sin Sod is not needed.

3. Don't negotiate with your wife. Tell her you want a independent negotiator.

4. Up To You on how much you can give.

Up north I went to a wedding. Thai girl and a german gent. 1 week after the wedding she was with another farang working out another wedding. From what I heard. She was married to 5 farangs already. All Sin Sod was not returnable.

[mizzi39]

If your future inlaws are telling you how much they expect for the sin sod then reg flags should be going up in your head and it is a good way to determine what you will be dealing with down the road. When I told my wifes parents (who live in Issan) that i wanted to marry their daughter they were happy because they new their daughter was happy. My wife is 26 yrs.old, beautiful (i think so University grad., and no kids. When the topic of the sin sod came up (and I brought it up) they told me that it was up to me, they would never suggest a price. I presented 200,000 baht plus 4 baht of gold (just for show, to save face) the morning we got married and gave them 100,000 baht before we headed back to Bkk.. So all in all I gave them 100,000 baht and the wedding paid for itself since everyone who came was generous enough to leave cash donations. So the whole thing cost me $3,000 US. The 4 baht of gold was given back to my wife and I which I still have and will cash in when the baby is born. So not all Thai families are sponges and not all Thai families live in the dark ages.

Edited May 5, 2008 by mizzi39

[coventry]

i as a farang was never asked for sinsod,but my sister in laws husband to be who is thai is giving her mum 1.5 million bhat.

she is quite well educated and speaks fluent english ,they both have leave to remain in britain as he was born there.

personally although i have nothing against a bar girl i think any guy who pays sinsod for one with a baby is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Is that sin sod refundable or is the guy a bit thick ?

Sin Sods are refundable if the woman doesn't perform on the wedding night or she doesn't turn out to be a virgin, as stated. Sorry just joking, but compensation can be asked for and legal proceeding can be taken, so I believe, if things are not true.

[Dobro]

I have been married 3 times to Thai women from various parts of the country.

I have never been asked for or ever paid sin sod in any form or other.

This is just a scam to get cash out of the falang.

Go find another one, your being ripped man.........

[qwertz]

But ozzydom, it's the other way round surely.

It's only the fact that a discerning and intelligent chap like me hangs around in TV, that keeps the forum alive . . .

It's a heavy burden, but it's one I'm prepared to shoulder with stoicism.

Ah bendix,you have a way with words,thats exactly what I meant to say,but you put it so much better.

Get a room and get on with it!!!

I will try to find a "tongue in cheek" smiley just for you brit.

"Get a room" - I thought for a minute Terry was back.

Anyway, I say sod sin sod.

1 mill. Baht indeed!

If I had to fork over such sums it would destroy my good opinion of myself.

[Jefferson]

Sorry, but showing money 'for show' also won't do. It's simply against Western culture and you would lose MASSIVE face in front of friends and family who will view this as buying a bride.

ABsolutely unacceptable in any way shape or form. Nice try though on their part.

[astral]

When I married, I presented 200,000 baht for Sin Sod... but only for "show"... that is I gave the illusion to the guests that I was giving Sin Sod. After the wedding ceremony, I got the money back.

I paid the same and also got it all back,

though my brother-in-law did make an act of going off with the swag.

[Travel2003]

I have been married 3 times to Thai women from various parts of the country.

Still looking for the right one?

Sorry, couldnt resist.

[jonniebkk]

The sin sod negotiation was kinda one sided. One million was asked for and my head turned red and I didn't say anything.

What, you didn't walk out of the room laughing uncontrollably. I would have and never returned any of their pleading phone calls!

Yep! Same here. What a ridiculous sum.

I have no problem with the custom of sin sot per se...it is part of Thai culture. But certain norms must be followed and the first one is to come in with a reasonable opening price. In certain circumstances, B 1M might be considered reasonable but in 99% of cases, we're talking about B 60-200K, with the upper range for truly virginal uni-educated extremely attractive ladies

But asking for 1M for most girls is really an insult to any man...and if this is how they treat a potential future son-in-law, well, I wouldn't want any part of such a family.

Edited May 7, 2008 by jonniebkk

[ILovedogs]

Based on whoever made the "western lifestyle" remark ... I would say, and this is important, IF YOU are going to be living in a western country, the so called "sin sod" is paid AFTER the marriage, in alimoney and half the assets you split with her. I would ask the parents IF they would PREFER, the money NOW or LATER, and being Thai, they will prefer NOW.

If you think you would owe her any where near one million baht, lets say after one year of marriage, well, okay, pay it, and then have her sign an agreement that states that you paid this, as a pre-payment, in case of divorce, and what you will pay later, which is NOTHING. Since you cannot control what SHE does AFTER she gets this money, then you cannot control if she is really into the marriage or not, can you? Usually, but I dont' know where you are from or where you intend to live after you are married, you cannot pre-determine child support, so if she decides to have a child, whithout your consent, you will be stuck for a lot of money for that, and cannot control that ...some THai girls see that as a lottery ticket .., I currently am adopting one kid from a Thai girl, from I would say a very middle class BKK family, who saw a 25 year old UK man, and their 30 year old daughter getting his baby as the way to big money. I am not sure why. THey probably have more money than the guy had ... I mean, I have vacationed with some of them in Zurich for God's sake, and they don't now have $20 a month for the kid's school ... because I think they scared the guy off with their large demands for money. Did they think he was Bill Gates at 25 years old??????

At the very least, I would tell you to negotiate to pay it over time. Thai people are always delaying everthing. That is their number one trick, number one game, " I will do it tomorrow, next week, next month" even when they know they don't have the slightest hope in hel_l, they will even promise to do it in the next hour, anything to avoid saying they can't do it.

Who in the hel_l would pay 1 million baht to be married for maybe one week?????

I think it is perfectly reasonable, and they will know it too, and not be offended, to say that you can pay by the year, according to how long you are married. And some people here (on TV because they freak out about everything) might freak out because they didn't think to do it that way, but you don't pay for some contractor to do all the work up front do you? You don't pay for furniture to be delivered all up front do you? There is NOTHING you pay for ALL UP FRONT IN THAILAND UNLESS YOU ARE A FARANG AND NEW HERE.

And basically if you do that, you somehow, get screwed. They know you are an idiot. Her parents won't respect you LESS for negotiating, for knowing her true worth, they will respect you if you figure out they are screwing you!

Tell them how much you have to pay to bring her to your country, how much she cannot make, that a farang woman COULD make, WHAT YOU ARE GIVING UP TO MARRY HER, and the valuable passport she is getting. Tell them that you know they will make demands on you in the future, (and you can know the more you pay now, the larger the demands will be later) and if they want you to have the money, you cannot spend it all now (although this won't go far, because they are all into RIGHT NOW, MONEY NOW, BECAUSE THEY DON'T TRUST MONEY LATER.

But don't just feel sorry for them, because they usually don't plan for later, that is why they don't care about later. It isn't because they are incapable of it, some people need to learn about later. They have the opposite training we have received. I always learned, "don't spend money now, you might need it later, and Thai people seem to have learned, spend all the money now, you might be dead tomorrow." That doesn't sound "polite to say but it is true and Thai people love farangs because we exactly meet their needs .... we always have money, and they never have money. NO matter how much you give them, what business you set up for them, in general, they never have money ( or they just say that because everyone is trying to get money from them ... but you will never meet a business owner here who is " doing good business."

I think in Western society it is bad to say " I don't have any money" but here it seems to be something to brag about. Who can have the least money and get someone else to pay.

Anyway, I would try to forget everything you have ever learned about politness, and everything, and survival is all that matters here. Nobody will give you any credit for being kind, or generous, or paying too much, they will in fact, give you demerits in this area, think you are an idiot who deserves to be taken advantage of more. They will laugh behind your back, they will charge you higher prices for everything, they will take commissions, everything you do will be based on some things you do now, like this wedding ... I don't know if you intend to live here or not, but still, you will be doing things here.

Ask yourself if some Thai guy would pay this money for your girl, or if you would do this if she was a farang? Don't change your standards because you are trying to be nice, trying to comply with their so-called culture, because when the shit hits the fan, they dont' give a crap about anyone's culture, yours or theirs, and they only care about how to get the most $$ out of situation they are presented with, whatever that is, and whatever you did before, nice or wonderful or terrible, won't matter one bit. If you won some lottery, paid the sin-sod before, and then set her family up in million dollar homes in Fiji, then she left you for her husband that she was married to before she met you, they will still hold you hostage for every dime they can get, and child support for her illegit kid, and laugh while thinking about the sin-sod you paid, and not care one iota if you are stuck in jail because they set you up with some bogus ya-ba deal to get it all.

If they turn out to be a great wonderful family, what is the rush? YOu can pay them year after year, as they will surely ask for money, or of they don't and you want to reward them you can. If they need it up front, something is wrong. Are you buying something you are sure you can keep????? Well, ask them how they can promise that to you? They can't can they? But you can pay year by year, based on what you have. I am not saying this sounds right, but it is a negotiation tool. You can say stupid things, like "if she makes a baby for me, I can pay you XXX, that is, if you want a baby. Later you can say, the baby cost me so much money, you can understand, I don't have money now. That is what they would do.

Then wait until people are sick, in the hospital, dead, pay for the funeral, pay for the hospital, which you will do anyway, even if you pay now the one million baht. THey won't save it for this later!!! Pay for the father's debts, whatever.

I have sort of decided that, although I am not dishonest, that is is really unfair for Thai people to play their games against me when I am completely honest and don't do the same things back. It is like war against a country that thinks it has a friend. So I am going to try to just do their same things back to them, but try to be my honest self as much as possible along the way ... maybe not possible ... I haven't really done it yet. But really, I have paid far too high a price after many years here with this sort of bullshit. I urge you not to be like me. I hope you manage to figure it out.

[popshirt]

ILovedogs, there is a lot of truth in your post. I am sure many here will be upset with some of the things you say, but I agree with the main points. You sound like someone who has lived in Thailand for quite a while. I stopped playing stoopid farang a long time ago by demanding repayment of a loan. Things haven't been the same since. They have been BETTER. Now they know that I have rules and principles and they respect me for that.

[ILovedogs]

Hi popshirt,

Thanks for the support. I have learned a lot of hard lessons here and now, I too have less so called friends, but I have much more money ...although interest rates in my country and the exchange rates have hurt me quite a bit, so every savings I make seems like still going backwards.

I have also demanded loans back, loans I never would have given in my "old life" but did here because I thought people went beyond the call of duty being such good friends, not knowing they got paid 16 different ways. It wasn't small money either, my 'ex-friends" now own a guesthouse, first that they rented, now that they have bought, even though they have never made any money so they can't pay me back ...but they made enough money to buy it!!!

And they pay me back some pitiful amounts, like not even enough to cover the most minimal interest payments, if it was secured land with a government bank ...once in a while, 6 months of the year, but not the first 18 months, etc. And I know now that most of the money they got to get this business was from commissions on all the stuff I bought the first year I lived here ...that is a lot of money that could have been discounted to me ...that I paid them to work for me. As well as thought they were my best friends but didnt' want to take advantage of them so paid them!!!!

But it is not just them, I am saying what I say based on so many things, I can't even begin to explain. I think many people never learn the extent of how they have been screwed here, or for some reason they don't care because they think they are screwing over Thailand maybe, because they are getting such a good deal with cheap sex, evading their own issues in their home country, whatever it is, I am not sure. But if you are a law abiding honest person, I don't understand how this culture does not piss people off beyond belief. But to the people who want to tell me off, please save it, I really don't care. I've been told it all before by pissed off TV people.

Anyway Popshirt, I am glad things got better for you, as they did for me too!!! I hope the OP isn't as originally stupid as us! I don't know why more people don't warn him.

[Heng]

They know you are an idiot.

In summary...

[zorro1]

How many bloody sinsod discussions do we need?

Is it me, or is Thaivisa dieing and agonisingly slow death?

Oh I plan on asking here when I get married and ignoring the search button before hand. I mean ,you wouldn't go to the markets and pay double the going rate for a chicken would you? Sinsod seems to fluctuate more than my stock holdings so I wanna make sure I'm not paying 1 bht over market price

[rick75]

1 million baht, have you had your brain removed?, I can't believe the extremes on this site guys who won't pay a cent and guys who are willing to pay 1 million, my TGF asked for 10k Baht plus some coin for the party hardly anything to get worried about or make a big deal over.

[wolfmanjack]

From what I understand about the Thai dowery system is that it's only paid once. If she's been married before or lived with someone prior then it's not expected to be paid a second time. But they'll never tell you in the hope you're ignorant enough to pay it again.

Not necessarily true. There is a girl in my village that has been married at least 3 times and got sin sod every time. Now i see she is living with her mother again so she is looking for #4. She has been married with thais every time and i have not seen her pregnant or a kid running around. It seems she stays married about a year each time. A pretty good earner for her and her mother.

Edited May 8, 2008 by wolfmanjack

[bannork]

Sin Sod is alive and well!

Here is an article from today's Daily News.

On May 9 at 8.00am in Nonthai district, Nakhon Ratchasima province, Mr Robert Rich, aged 64, a Dutchman and owner of a book export business,married his partner Wallop Khontrong, aged 30, a male from Nonthai district.

It was a grand wedding with many guests and a lively atmosphere, the wedding followed Thai customs, beginning with Mr Robert, the bridegroom, wearing a Thai suit and accompanied by 2 foreign friends, taking the traditional tray of gifts along with the dowry which consisted of 900,000 baht cash and 20 baht(weight) of gold to the 'bride's' house

The'bride' as the host, arranged various wedding rites, offering food to the monks, blessings for life and the pouring of consecrated water. His parents,grandparents,friends and neighbours joined in the pouring of blessed water on the couple, accompanied by many wishes of good luck.

After the ceremony there was a Chinese dinner of 50 tables with music amidst a gay atmosphere( pun intended).

Wallop said 4 years ago he was working as a waiter in a south Pattaya restaurant next to Jomtien beach when he met Robert.

Wallop said Robert was immediately attracted to him as he could see that Wallop took good care to please( the customers),was good natured as well as gentle and polite. For his part Wallop could see that Robert was romantic, attentive, and always did his best to please.

Robert had previously been married and hd children but had long since separated from his wife.

For 3 years Robert and Wallop lived in a condo Robert bought in Pattaya, then last year Robert took Wallop to Holland to get married there.On returning to Thailand, Robert bought the restaurant Wallop had worked in for 3 million baht and gave the business to Wallop.

Mr Lek and Mrs Orawan, the father and mother of Wallop respectively, said they were glad their son was marrying because they understood both parties loved each other.

[ralph444]

did op say somewhere he got hisself a bargirl? could very well be a financial analyst who works at somchai schwab and co with degree fro m ramakamahaeng university.

lots of farang marry middle to upper class virgins from upstanding thai families.......or am i thick?

[MysteryPlane]

did op say somewhere he got hisself a bargirl? could very well be a financial analyst who works at somchai schwab and co with degree fro m ramakamahaeng university.

lots of farang marry middle to upper class virgins from upstanding thai families.......or am i thick?

Lots of farrangs marry girl's they met working in 7/11 or office girl's all of which are Virgin's, some say the girl was a cashier, never a BG that went with OTHER men for money.