Protests Against Mega-sized Malls

[george]

Local vendors form 'Market Assembly of Thailand' to resist mega-retailers

BANGKOK: -- In an attempt to boost their competiveness and ability to fight against mega-sized business retailers, especially giant transnational firms, more than 500 Thai greengrocer wet market operators in Bangkok and upcountry on Saturday signed a declaration to establish a so-called 'Market Assembly of Thailand', a senior Commerce Ministry official said.

Internal Trade Department director-general Yanyong Phuangrach said his department would advise small businesses on sources of inexpensive goods prices for market traders because the department has wide knowledge of these sources.

The objectives of the assembly, Mr. Yanyong said, are aimed at enabling wet market operators to work as a team or to form a cluster of businesses in order to boost their competitiveness so that they can fight off major retail businesses which are threatening traditional business in Thailand.

Such businesses could be affected like the so-called mom-and-pop businesses which have been significantly eroded, and are now in decline, said Mr. Yanyong.

According to statistics prepared by the Internal Trade Department, there are more than 6,000 retail shops and markets nationwide with combined sales of over Bt1.2 trillion annually.

Of these, there are 2,847 wet market operators earning between Bt50-60 billion annually.

-- TNA 2008-05-03

[Scott]

And I wonder how much taxes these vendors pay?

[chiang mai]

Forget the taxes, keep the character, the freedom of choice and the culture - no more mega supermarkets in Thailand..

[Kimera]

Local vendors form 'Market Assembly of Thailand' to resist mega-retailers

BANGKOK: -- In an attempt to boost their competiveness and ability to fight against mega-sized business retailers, especially giant transnational firms, more than 500 Thai greengrocer wet market operators in Bangkok and upcountry on Saturday signed a declaration to establish a so-called 'Market Assembly of Thailand', a senior Commerce Ministry official said.

Internal Trade Department director-general Yanyong Phuangrach said his department would advise small businesses on sources of inexpensive goods prices for market traders because the department has wide knowledge of these sources.

The objectives of the assembly, Mr. Yanyong said, are aimed at enabling wet market operators to work as a team or to form a cluster of businesses in order to boost their competitiveness so that they can fight off major retail businesses which are threatening traditional business in Thailand.

Such businesses could be affected like the so-called mom-and-pop businesses which have been significantly eroded, and are now in decline, said Mr. Yanyong.

According to statistics prepared by the Internal Trade Department, there are more than 6,000 retail shops and markets nationwide with combined sales of over Bt1.2 trillion annually.

Of these, there are 2,847 wet market operators earning between Bt50-60 billion annually.

-- TNA 2008-05-03

I had a local shop in the UK 35 years ago I felt the same, do what you will, there is no stopping this one

[jumnien]

Where are the mega-markets in shopping malls? I've been to Paragon, Emporium, Central Chidlom, etc. and all of them have tiny little fresh food sections that really aren't much competition to the wet markets.

[Sir Burr]

the freedom of choice

no more mega supermarkets in Thailand..

Can't have one without the other.........

[Johpa]

And I wonder how much taxes these vendors pay?

Yes, well if you take the profits that are wired offshore together with the "taxes" collected you pretty much get a wash. Money spent with local small business owners tends to stay in the country while profits of multi-nationals goes offshore and profits that get into the hands of the elite also seep offshore, and that includes government revenue.

[chiang mai]

Where are the mega-markets in shopping malls? I've been to Paragon, Emporium, Central Chidlom, etc. and all of them have tiny little fresh food sections that really aren't much competition to the wet markets.

Clearly the sun has not yet risen, did you miss the, dare I say, near gargantuan food supermarkets in Paragon and Emporium? Central Chidlom by the way is a retail department store! Best you look again my friend because the one in Paragon is the envy of many western countries.

[jumnien]

Where are the mega-markets in shopping malls? I've been to Paragon, Emporium, Central Chidlom, etc. and all of them have tiny little fresh food sections that really aren't much competition to the wet markets.

Clearly the sun has not yet risen, did you miss the, dare I say, near gargantuan food supermarkets in Paragon and Emporium? Central Chidlom by the way is a retail department store! Best you look again my friend because the one in Paragon is the envy of many western countries.

Paragon is great for imported packaged items not carried by wet markets. It doubly great because there is never anyone in line to check out. Emporium has a gargantuan store, where? The little store on the 5th floor has about 3 cash registers and again, people are buying imported goods.

[chiang mai]

Where are the mega-markets in shopping malls? I've been to Paragon, Emporium, Central Chidlom, etc. and all of them have tiny little fresh food sections that really aren't much competition to the wet markets.

Clearly the sun has not yet risen, did you miss the, dare I say, near gargantuan food supermarkets in Paragon and Emporium? Central Chidlom by the way is a retail department store! Best you look again my friend because the one in Paragon is the envy of many western countries.

Paragon is great for imported packaged items not carried by wet markets. It doubly great because there is never anyone in line to check out. Emporium has a gargantuan store, where? The little store on the 5th floor has about 3 cash registers and again, people are buying imported goods.

Tell me you're not implying that Paragon should carry imported wet market items also.

[jumnien]

If Paragon sells imported brocolli, I personally believe that no crime against humanity has been commited.

[Martin]

For 'Kimera', re post #4:

"I had a local shop in the UK 35 years ago I felt the same, do what you will, there is no stopping this one"

There is reason to be much more optimistic.

35 years ago we were starting on 30 years of very cheap shipping and road transportation costs , and they tipped the balance in favour of bigger and bigger supermarkets supplied via big distribution depots.

(I followed this development with interest as my mother had been a friend of Gladys Morrison, who (with her husband William) had two stalls in an indoor market in Bradford. So I was acquainted with their son, Ken, and saw how he was developing what were, in effect, a chain of indoor markets.)

Those big chains of supermarkets face gradually losing their advantage as shipping, air transportation, and road transportation costs go steadily higher from here on in.

(In fact, I read yesterday that freight rates for shipping are up 30% this year.

Kunstler in "The Long Emergency" goes a bit over the top in some ways (in my opinion), but his forecast that Wal Mart etc will 'wipe out' is persuasive.

In a very small way, the trend has already reversed. We live 55 km from both Khon Kaen and Udon Thani, so have to factor in 420 bahts of diesel-fuel costs if we go to any supermarket. So we have upped our purchasing at our local 'Mom and Pop' shops and local wet (and dry) markets. This has reduced considerably the number of trips that we make each year to a supermarket.

Good luck to these market operators.

[chiang mai]

Where are the mega-markets in shopping malls? I've been to Paragon, Emporium, Central Chidlom, etc. and all of them have tiny little fresh food sections that really aren't much competition to the wet markets.

Clearly the sun has not yet risen, did you miss the, dare I say, near gargantuan food supermarkets in Paragon and Emporium? Central Chidlom by the way is a retail department store! Best you look again my friend because the one in Paragon is the envy of many western countries.

Paragon is great for imported packaged items not carried by wet markets. It doubly great because there is never anyone in line to check out. Emporium has a gargantuan store, where? The little store on the 5th floor has about 3 cash registers and again, people are buying imported goods.

Tell me you're not implying that Paragon should carry imported wet market items also.

It seems to me that the demands, perceived need for and appetite by farangs for "more and more of what I can get back home" is responsible for a good part of the trend to build more superstores complete with mega markets and much of the demand for this is being met by British (tesco) and the French (Big C & Carrefour) conglomerates, not Thai's. This in my book is an unhealthy and unnecessary trend. Why not eat Thai Brocolli, it may not be exactly like back home but vive la difference.

[Heng]

Let the market do what it will (because it probably will anyway).

[ozsamurai]

All countries have learnt this lesson all too slowly. Mum and Dad corner stores, where you used to get your 20cents of lollies after school being replaced by the sterile 7/11. Try as they may, money will win, who can resist a shiny new, airconditioned Mall? Well, me! Its a sad state of affairs, but as the internet has now centralized information and communication, shopping will go that way, they would be better served in combining their efforts to make an attempt at their own shopping center, instead of just combining their complaints to throw at a deaf government and public...

[Sir Burr]

It seems to me that the demands, perceived need for and appetite by farangs for "more and more of what I can get back home" is responsible for a good part of the trend to build more superstores complete with mega markets and much of the demand for this is being met by British (tesco) and the French (Big C & Carrefour) conglomerates, not Thai's.

Rubbish!

These superstores are being set up for Thais who make up the majority of shoppers.

The foreigner population is far, far too small to even come into consideration when one of these companies decides to open a mega-store.

Most of the fruit and vegetables is Thai grown, anyway.

Furthermore, I think you'll find that the majority stake-holder in Tesco-lotus is a Thai company (CP I think).

Edited May 4, 2008 by Sir Burr

[chiang mai]

It seems to me that the demands, perceived need for and appetite by farangs for "more and more of what I can get back home" is responsible for a good part of the trend to build more superstores complete with mega markets and much of the demand for this is being met by British (tesco) and the French (Big C & Carrefour) conglomerates, not Thai's.

Rubbish!

These superstores are being set up for Thais who make up the majority of shoppers.

The foreigner population is far, far too small to even come into consideration when one of these companies decides to open a mega-store.

Most of the fruit and vegetables is Thai grown, anyway.

Furthermore, I think you'll find that the majority stake-holder in Tesco-lotus is a Thai company (CP I think).

I agree the majority of customers are Thai's but Thailand still seems to want to emulate the UK model but has not learned the lessons from its social downside. I remain unconvinced that the size and location of the foreign population is not a factor in the planning for new stores. As far as CP's majority holding in Tesco Lotus is concerned, yes, that is the law. But one seriously doubts that CP went to the UK looking for a partner in their current joint venture, this is nothing more than the spread of not entirely needed western businesses without any regard for the Thai communities they allegedly serve.

[Thai at Heart]

And I wonder how much taxes these vendors pay?

Yes, well if you take the profits that are wired offshore together with the "taxes" collected you pretty much get a wash. Money spent with local small business owners tends to stay in the country while profits of multi-nationals goes offshore and profits that get into the hands of the elite also seep offshore, and that includes government revenue.

Please explain to me how any MNC indulging in selling in Thailand carries this out because this is possibly the most spurious argeuement against large retail businesses. The VAT take from one supermarket in Thailand alone probably exceeds the total tax contribution of all of these wet markets.

http://www.tescolotus.net/company/keyfact.asp?Lang=English

This is an issue that the Thai government needs to solve, but hoping that the govt will somehow believe that they are a worse taxation option than wet markets is barking definitely up the wrong tree.

[PattayaParent]

I don't beleive it's the supermarkets that are causing the decline of the mom and pop stores at all. It's all the 7/11s that have sprung up on every corner that's affecting these stores more.

[Thai at Heart]

I don't beleive it's the supermarkets that are causing the decline of the mom and pop stores at all. It's all the 7/11s that have sprung up on every corner that's affecting these stores more.

Of course it is, but 7-11 doesn't come with an MNC behind it so it makes doesn't make good press.

[singa-traz]

It seems to me that the demands, perceived need for and appetite by farangs for "more and more of what I can get back home" is responsible for a good part of the trend to build more superstores complete with mega markets and much of the demand for this is being met by British (tesco) and the French (Big C & Carrefour) conglomerates, not Thai's.

Rubbish!

These superstores are being set up for Thais who make up the majority of shoppers.

The foreigner population is far, far too small to even come into consideration when one of these companies decides to open a mega-store.

Most of the fruit and vegetables is Thai grown, anyway.

Furthermore, I think you'll find that the majority stake-holder in Tesco-lotus is a Thai company (CP I think).

I agree the majority of customers are Thai's but Thailand still seems to want to emulate the UK model but has not learned the lessons from its social downside. I remain unconvinced that the size and location of the foreign population is not a factor in the planning for new stores. As far as CP's majority holding in Tesco Lotus is concerned, yes, that is the law. But one seriously doubts that CP went to the UK looking for a partner in their current joint venture, this is nothing more than the spread of not entirely needed western businesses without any regard for the Thai communities they allegedly serve.

CP sold their shares in TESCO-LOTUS years ago, but they remain one of their big trading partner.

http://www.siamfuture.com/ThaiNews/ThNewsTxt.asp?tid=397

CP sold the rest of their shares two/three years later.

I remain unconvinced that the size and location of the foreign population is not a factor in the planning for new stores.

That's a joke, right?

The only factors that is affected by the foreign population, and only for the few stores in Bangkok (Rama III/Rama IV/Sukhumvit), is in the type of product they carry.

I would estimate it at maximum 5% of the TESCO stores, and only for a few products.

Try to shop in Carrefour Srinakarin for French food ... and you need to stop at the Foodland to get something decent.

Rama IV has a bit more choices in that small section.

[chiang mai]

It seems to me that the demands, perceived need for and appetite by farangs for "more and more of what I can get back home" is responsible for a good part of the trend to build more superstores complete with mega markets and much of the demand for this is being met by British (tesco) and the French (Big C & Carrefour) conglomerates, not Thai's.

Rubbish!

These superstores are being set up for Thais who make up the majority of shoppers.

The foreigner population is far, far too small to even come into consideration when one of these companies decides to open a mega-store.

Most of the fruit and vegetables is Thai grown, anyway.

Furthermore, I think you'll find that the majority stake-holder in Tesco-lotus is a Thai company (CP I think).

I agree the majority of customers are Thai's but Thailand still seems to want to emulate the UK model but has not learned the lessons from its social downside. I remain unconvinced that the size and location of the foreign population is not a factor in the planning for new stores. As far as CP's majority holding in Tesco Lotus is concerned, yes, that is the law. But one seriously doubts that CP went to the UK looking for a partner in their current joint venture, this is nothing more than the spread of not entirely needed western businesses without any regard for the Thai communities they allegedly serve.

CP sold their shares in TESCO-LOTUS years ago, but they remain one of their big trading partner.

http://www.siamfuture.com/ThaiNews/ThNewsTxt.asp?tid=397

CP sold the rest of their shares two/three years later.

I remain unconvinced that the size and location of the foreign population is not a factor in the planning for new stores.

That's a joke, right?

The only factors that is affected by the foreign population, and only for the few stores in Bangkok (Rama III/Rama IV/Sukhumvit), is in the type of product they carry.

I would estimate it at maximum 5% of the TESCO stores, and only for a few products.

Try to shop in Carrefour Srinakarin for French food ... and you need to stop at the Foodland to get something decent.

Rama IV has a bit more choices in that small section.

Try to shop in Carrefour in Patong (Phuket) it's in plentiful oversupply. As for ownership it was Sir Burr who suggested CP group was the major Thai owner, I have no idea but would be interested to know. All I know is that Casino Group (France) is the major foreign shareholder of both BIG C and Carrefour. And about location and the farang population: it makes good business sense for Tesco to identify large pockets of farangs in potential new market areas because they are more likely to live as a group in more middle class areas and surrounding by locals who work in tourist or support type work. Chalong for example is right in the middle of a high density farang population.

[Heng]

It seems to me that the demands, perceived need for and appetite by farangs for "more and more of what I can get back home" is responsible for a good part of the trend to build more superstores complete with mega markets and much of the demand for this is being met by British (tesco) and the French (Big C & Carrefour) conglomerates, not Thai's.

Rubbish!

These superstores are being set up for Thais who make up the majority of shoppers.

The foreigner population is far, far too small to even come into consideration when one of these companies decides to open a mega-store.

Most of the fruit and vegetables is Thai grown, anyway.

Furthermore, I think you'll find that the majority stake-holder in Tesco-lotus is a Thai company (CP I think).

I agree the majority of customers are Thai's but Thailand still seems to want to emulate the UK model but has not learned the lessons from its social downside. I remain unconvinced that the size and location of the foreign population is not a factor in the planning for new stores. As far as CP's majority holding in Tesco Lotus is concerned, yes, that is the law. But one seriously doubts that CP went to the UK looking for a partner in their current joint venture, this is nothing more than the spread of not entirely needed western businesses without any regard for the Thai communities they allegedly serve.

CP sold their shares in TESCO-LOTUS years ago, but they remain one of their big trading partner.

http://www.siamfuture.com/ThaiNews/ThNewsTxt.asp?tid=397

CP sold the rest of their shares two/three years later.

I remain unconvinced that the size and location of the foreign population is not a factor in the planning for new stores.

That's a joke, right?

The only factors that is affected by the foreign population, and only for the few stores in Bangkok (Rama III/Rama IV/Sukhumvit), is in the type of product they carry.

I would estimate it at maximum 5% of the TESCO stores, and only for a few products.

It's common for people to think that their market segment is more important than it is.

[Plus]

I was at one of two Tescos on Lamlukka today (about 20km north of Don Muang) today, haven't noticed a single farang. Their dairy section is designed to turn any farang right away, as usual.

I bet if someone told the manager there to stock french cheese because some farangs moved to the neighbourhood he'd tell them to fuc_k off and get used to processed cheddar slices.

[chiang mai]

Trust me when I say I don't think the farang segment is important and frankly I often wish that it had a lower profile in parts of Thailand than it does today. I also do not think that Tesco and the like attempt to consider the farang population centres in Thailand in all but a few cases, Phuket being one of them.

There's an interesting comparison to make here in Phuket involving the new Carrefour in Junceylon and the equally new Thai market that sits across the street behind it. The Thai covered market is quite new, clean and carries a range of goods including extensive fresh produce, fruit, meat and fish - quite honestly and objectively, the Thai market beats the pants off Carrefour any day of the week for variety, quality and more often than not, price. The market comprises some fifty individual store owners and the competition is fierce, a game that Carrefour doesn't want or perhaps can't even begin to play. If you saw the difference between the two establishments you would simply never consider going into Carrefour except to get hard to find specialty items.

Edited May 5, 2008 by chiang mai

[singa-traz]

... All I know is that Casino Group (France) is the major foreign shareholder of both BIG C and Carrefour.

Please let us know where you got this information that Casino is a shareholder of Carrefour ...

You may have been confused with the rumors that Carrefour may exit the Thai market and sold their supermarket to rival BIG C (Casino)...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/260408_Business...r2008_biz26.php

Beside shopping there, what else do you know about the retail market?

[chiang mai]

... All I know is that Casino Group (France) is the major foreign shareholder of both BIG C and Carrefour.

Please let us know where you got this information that Casino is a shareholder of Carrefour ...

You may have been confused with the rumors that Carrefour may exit the Thai market and sold their supermarket to rival BIG C (Casino)...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/260408_Business...r2008_biz26.php

Beside shopping there, what else do you know about the retail market?

OK smart ass, here's where, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_C. And I quote:

"In 1999, Big C Supercenter PLC. decides to form a business alliance with France-based Groupe Casino, known for Géant. Groupe Casino buy 530 million shares of BigC capital increase, owns approximately 63 percent of the company, making them the largest shareholder after the company's recapitalization. After securing the controlling stake in BigC, the Groupe Casino decides to sell the entire garment business in order to concentrate only on the retail activity".

Is there anything else I can help you with?

[chiang mai]

... All I know is that Casino Group (France) is the major foreign shareholder of both BIG C and Carrefour.

Please let us know where you got this information that Casino is a shareholder of Carrefour ...

You may have been confused with the rumors that Carrefour may exit the Thai market and sold their supermarket to rival BIG C (Casino)...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/260408_Business...r2008_biz26.php

Beside shopping there, what else do you know about the retail market?

OK smart ass, here's where, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_C. And I quote:

"In 1999, Big C Supercenter PLC. decides to form a business alliance with France-based Groupe Casino, known for Géant. Groupe Casino buy 530 million shares of BigC capital increase, owns approximately 63 percent of the company, making them the largest shareholder after the company's recapitalization. After securing the controlling stake in BigC, the Groupe Casino decides to sell the entire garment business in order to concentrate only on the retail activity".

Is there anything else I can help you with?

My apologies, I misread your post. I accept that Carrefour is not shared or owned by Casino Group but is indeed owned by the French family the store is named after Carrefour.

Edited May 5, 2008 by chiang mai

[singa-traz]

... All I know is that Casino Group (France) is the major foreign shareholder of both BIG C and Carrefour.

Please let us know where you got this information that Casino is a shareholder of Carrefour ...

You may have been confused with the rumors that Carrefour may exit the Thai market and sold their supermarket to rival BIG C (Casino)...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/260408_Business...r2008_biz26.php

Beside shopping there, what else do you know about the retail market?

OK smart ass, here's where, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_C. And I quote:

"In 1999, Big C Supercenter PLC. decides to form a business alliance with France-based Groupe Casino, known for Géant. Groupe Casino buy 530 million shares of BigC capital increase, owns approximately 63 percent of the company, making them the largest shareholder after the company's recapitalization. After securing the controlling stake in BigC, the Groupe Casino decides to sell the entire garment business in order to concentrate only on the retail activity".

Is there anything else I can help you with?

And where does it says that it owns Carrefour? ... the number two retailer worldwide ... when Casino is barely in the top ten ...

Do a bit more googling before posting additional information ... please ...

But look at the bright side, you learned something today ...

[chiang mai]

... All I know is that Casino Group (France) is the major foreign shareholder of both BIG C and Carrefour.

Please let us know where you got this information that Casino is a shareholder of Carrefour ...

You may have been confused with the rumors that Carrefour may exit the Thai market and sold their supermarket to rival BIG C (Casino)...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/260408_Business...r2008_biz26.php

Beside shopping there, what else do you know about the retail market?

OK smart ass, here's where, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_C. And I quote:

"In 1999, Big C Supercenter PLC. decides to form a business alliance with France-based Groupe Casino, known for Géant. Groupe Casino buy 530 million shares of BigC capital increase, owns approximately 63 percent of the company, making them the largest shareholder after the company's recapitalization. After securing the controlling stake in BigC, the Groupe Casino decides to sell the entire garment business in order to concentrate only on the retail activity".

Is there anything else I can help you with?

And where does it says that it owns Carrefour? ... the number two retailer worldwide ... when Casino is barely in the top ten ...

Do a bit more googling before posting additional information ... please ...

But look at the bright side, you learned something today ...

And you might perhaps read all the posts in the thread before posting. There, now you learned something today also.