Sir Burr Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Bang......bang.......bang.... (sound of head against brick wall). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 up to you to disagree if you want. the point of my post is lost anyway since i am not allowed to ask people to donate to a certain org. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ijustwannateach Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 There is perhaps some argument in your attitude towards *persons* who can be trained to take care of themselves better after awhile, and need to take responsibility and develop independence. But a dog becomes dependent on you and can't replace your support with its own training, or get a job and support itself. I can understand your need to get on with your life, but your decision to support dogs was a sentimental one- you cared about your feelings at the prospect of dead dogs, not the long-term welfare of the dogs themselves. The more responsible decision would have been, indeed, to let the dogs' lives fail if you were not truly willing to do more than simply put off the inevitable for the sake of short-lived sentiment. I agree with the posters who recommend that until you are pretty sure you can stay with a pet for life (or are willing to make sacrifices to do so) that you either stick with shorter-lived or more independent pets (small freshwater fish would be good), or avoid them altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 i understand your point, i just disagree with it. we are having a moral debate. i think most people who would have been in my position for the past 4 years would have done the same, though it is easy to sit behind a keyboard and be self righteous. i think those who will only help an animal if they are set up to take care of them long term are just giving themselves an excuse to make themselves feel better for doing nothing. either way, the animal will suffer at some point. in my case, if i had let the dogs die on the street initially, how is it different from leaving them now? i think the difference is that at least for some time in their lives they were able to experience love, warmth, and being well fed and healthy. it is sad that they may not have that any longer (believe me i feel horrible about it), but is it not sad that they would not have had it at all otherwise? and in this case they are stronger and healthier and thus more likely to find their food (remember they are street dogs who have survived this way before) and can make people like them as they are not sickly and dirty and antisocial. also, if more people would pitch in, then their being on the street would not be such an issue! because everyone would be doing their part to eradicate the problems! my neighbors would be spaying all the females to reduce the population. the long termers would be throwing their scraps out every day for the dogs. the animal care place would have enough cash to come around and vaccinate and treat them when they were sick. slowly but surely, things would change. so the point here (again) is do what you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ijustwannateach Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Well, I would like to have pets, but I don't for the very reasons I've recommended that you don't. I know I can't make the commitment. Same with supporting any children, at least in this stage of my life. I do help people, but I choose carefully and try to make sure what I am doing has a chance of giving them more independence within a limited time frame, not making them indefinitely dependent on me. Aid organisations are also helpful, as you mention- perhaps if you had spent the money you used taking care of the now-abandoned dogs instead on those organisations, it would have been more long-term help to the dog population of the island? After all, as you say, the dogs you "helped" suffer in the long run either way now (your help or no help). I'm trying to imagine if I were a small child, if it would make me less angry or more understanding later if after having being abandoned my mother told me, "well, at least you had me for a few years!" Seems to me it's more cruel that way, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 true, to me it seems cruel either way. but life is cruel. you could die on your pet too at any time, and then they would be in a similar situation. things happen and they are not always according to plan. i did not intend for these dogs to become pets (just the one i had when she was a baby, for whom i found a home finally). but in order to heal them they had to stay with me for a long time and be treated. it is hard to push a dog back on the street at any time (I am sure PAC knows this too). in retrospect i probably would have fed them somewhere away from my house so they didn't get so comfortable there.... i did donate as much as possible to the animal place, in person and via their site. and like i said i spayed as many dogs as i could and encouraged others to do so as well. i also bought deworming pills and medicine for skin problems which i passed out. i took care of many, many ill dogs, most of whom died, some horrifically (i will have nightmares forever about 'scruffy', who was with me for about a year and who died of heartworms, his vital organs shut down one by one over the course of the night and i watched him suffer). some of them i had to take in and get put down. some were poisoned. it is not an easy life for ANY dog (animal) in thailand. say what you will, but i did what i could while i was here. i encourage others to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheSnap Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Girlx, I see your point. If I were living on the street and starving, and I had the opportunity to either: A. Live in a nice home and eat well and be cared for for a period of time, even though I would eventually have to return to my former life or B. Continue to live a life of misery on the street I think I would opt for a little luxury. Granted, an animal doesn't understand this distinction, but it's way better than nothing. Good on you for making an effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Here are more dictionary definitions of hypocrisy: "falsely making oneself appear to be virtuous" and "behaviour in which someone claims to have certain moral principles or beliefs but behaves in a way that shows they are not sincere." The New Testament, written in the Greek language that gave us the word, says much about hypocrisy. James wrote of the hypocrites who say to a person [or who might say to a stray, sick dog] "Bless you," but who do not feed or clothe that needy individual. So girlx, you were compassionate to your dogs for years, and then you abandoned them. In the end, you did a hypocritical thing, but we all do stuff like that at times. Jesus called the most observant Jews of his day hypocrites for neglecting widows and orphans. All of us, Thai and farang, should help the animals, support the dog rescue agencies, do what we can. When we got here, we inherited one dog that was abandoned. If we leave, we will make sure he has a new home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angiud Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 so instead, when you see a dog sick and dying or starving, you just leave it? sorry, but i think you are a hypocrite. If I see a sick dog usually I help him, or I warn PAC. But I don't bring the animal to live with me. Actually I have with me 4 ex-stray cats. I am not Brigitte Bardot (and actually I'm a man). BUT, if one day I will move from KPG, I will bring my pets with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuian Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 ....edit.......All of us, Thai and farang, should help the animals, support the dog rescue agencies, do what we can. ...edit....... Thats the (right) way to do it, my full approval, thumbs up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted May 21, 2008 Author Share Posted May 21, 2008 (edited) James wrote of the hypocrites who say to a person [or who might say to a stray, sick dog] "Bless you," but who do not feed or clothe that needy individual. So girlx, you were compassionate to your dogs for years, and then you abandoned them. In the end, you did a hypocritical thing i don't think it is hypocritical to make a sincere effort. and i think if more people did that, the less of a problem there would be. but we keep saying the same things over and over again. When we got here, we inherited one dog that was abandoned. If we leave, we will make sure he has a new home. good luck with that Edited May 21, 2008 by girlx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfe Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 it is almost impossible to find homes for dogs in thailand. especially if ordinary looking and adults, but even purebreed puppies. i'm talking about GOOD and forever homes. too many dogs around everywhere and also peoples lives and interests seem to be not as stable as compared to western countries, to a certain extent anyway. that is also a problem for the rescue orgs. once rescued and nursed back to good health - what now with the dog if put back on the street it will soon be in the same state as found or even die. in western countries, esp in northern europe and the us, it is much easier to rehome dogs as more and more people want to give a dog in need a home rather than a freshly bred one... the best would be to send the dog to a foster family there through an organisation and there it will be rehomed once the right people are interested. some orgas do this with success though it is very costy to prepare and fly the animal to these countries. lots of animal rescues in spain, greece etc which fly the dogs to northern europe and rehome them. costs are much lower of course and also the procedure easier. of course flying out all homeless dogs to more caring countries would not be a solution. the most important thing is to get something done here and get more castration programms in action. domesticated animals should get some respect and be treated as man's best friend, as they are. i wished more thai people would follow the wonderful example of HMTK and take in a stray and be responsible for it for life. i'm with girlx on that one, if everyone just helped at his own doorstep and would not look away, it would make a big difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoorSucker Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Contact dog rescue center on Samui. http://www.samuidog.org/ They can help you with the procedure to take the dogs with you to Amsterdam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustafa Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Girlx, I have a solution for you. I think you should eat your dogs. Perhaps not Scruffy though. My wife is heading down to Australia for work in a few months and wants me to join her, but I asked her how can I possibly leave our two beloved dogs behind- what an excuse it's turned out to be! Nothing else in the whole world of excuses would have worked besides the doggy excuse. I showed her this thread and all those who support the 'adopt a dog forever' argument, and now I get to stay here for as long as they live. These dogs are the best kept animals in the kingdom believe me! For any guys out there who wants to stay in Samui for 10-15 years I recommend you get a dog ASAP- healthy is best remember, but maybe one with DVT that can't risk flying:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patsycat Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Girlx, I see both sides of this, one the caring and loving side and the other the "turning a blind eye" side. I love animals (probably more than humans) but, i think that i have to side with the people who have stated that if you cannot take in an animal for the rest of it's life or have a support system to take over if you need to leave for X reason, then it is best to be tough and hold the emotions in. It's hard, i know - even here in Europe we have wee waifs and strays staring up with loving and devoted eyes. (Even though most of them are already in the Rescue places). But we have to be strong and say NO I can't do it. A few months ago, I lost a cat and went to all the Cat Rescue places in Geneva to look for him (did not find him) - but i can tell you i would have come home with 15 of those gorgeous little buggers if i could have!! But a friend who was with me (thank god) just pulled me away!! It's working your life and living into theirs, you can or you cannot. Perhaps the next place you live will be for longer and then you can take on the responsability of a furry friend. But, kudos for at least helping some of them to have a happy life even for a short time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Girlx, I have a solution for you. I think you should eat your dogs. Perhaps not Scruffy though. My wife is heading down to Australia for work in a few months and wants me to join her, but I asked her how can I possibly leave our two beloved dogs behind- what an excuse it's turned out to be! Nothing else in the whole world of excuses would have worked besides the doggy excuse. I showed her this thread and all those who support the 'adopt a dog forever' argument, and now I get to stay here for as long as they live. These dogs are the best kept animals in the kingdom believe me! For any guys out there who wants to stay in Samui for 10-15 years I recommend you get a dog ASAP- healthy is best remember, but maybe one with DVT that can't risk flying:) trollish responses designed to inflame people are frowned upon mustafa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 girlx, do you know the lady who is doing the event in TNPY? If so, please contact her, she wants to open (with other projects) a animal care center there (not PAC). Just an idea, hope you can solve this difficult issue. It is hard I know and myself I have plenty of cats around me and they are growing fast ;-)) lucky some how, that they look for regulation by them self. They chasing the kid's away with the time, the male are chased away from the older ones, not so the dogs. "My cat's" also just came by themselves and hang around our place. I leave for some time and let them. When coming back even after a longer time, surthendlythey showing up to say, hey we still alive! I think the best thing for you is to keep on staying on KPG ;-) regards ham p.s. if somebody needs a cat, only the grey ones available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 girlx, do you know the lady who is doing the event in TNPY? If so, please contact her, she wants to open (with other projects) a animal care center there (not PAC). yes i know her, she is the family who took my one dog. she also has asked me to run the new animal care place. but i can not go back to thong nai pan right now for several reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angiud Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Ham, your cats are lovely!!! (and the photos too). But I have four already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mssabai Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 girlx, do you know the lady who is doing the event in TNPY? If so, please contact her, she wants to open (with other projects) a animal care center there (not PAC). Just an idea, hope you can solve this difficult issue. It is hard I know and myself I have plenty of cats around me and they are growing fast ;-)) lucky some how, that they look for regulation by them self. They chasing the kid's away with the time, the male are chased away from the older ones, not so the dogs. "My cat's" also just came by themselves and hang around our place. I leave for some time and let them. When coming back even after a longer time, surthendlythey showing up to say, hey we still alive!I think the best thing for you is to keep on staying on KPG ;-) regards ham p.s. if somebody needs a cat, only the grey ones available. I would love a cat Ham, but I don't have the option to leave a window open or have a cat flap at my house when I am at work so I am going to have to reluctantly say no : (. One thing that really angers me is the pure bred dogs that are brought to the island. These dogs all also use PAC as there is no official alternative vet. These dogs often suffer from more diseases than the mutts due to in-breeding and over-breeding and therefore place more of a burden on PAC. And worst of all I know 3 farangs who bought 3 pug puppies in Tong Sala, all of whom have now left and their dogs have been left with various people on the island. One is lucky and has a good home, the other two are being moved from person to person as no one wants to take them long term. When one girl bought one of the dogs I asked what was going to happen to it when she left. She said she was never leaving - ha ha! I think if anyone can be accused of being selfish it is people like this, not people who just try to alleviate the suffering of street dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooo Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I would love a cat Ham, but I don't have the option to leave a window open or have a cat flap at my house when I am at work so I am going to have to reluctantly say no : (. What's wrong with a litter tray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Would anyone leave this family pet behind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I would love a cat Ham, but I don't have the option to leave a window open or have a cat flap at my house when I am at work so I am going to have to reluctantly say no : (. What's wrong with a litter tray? i like a pussy cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angiud Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I would love a cat Ham, but I don't have the option to leave a window open or have a cat flap at my house when I am at work so I am going to have to reluctantly say no : (. What's wrong with a litter tray? i like a pussy cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Would anyone leave this family pet behind? link doesn't work for me Jose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 link doesn't work for me Jose... dam_n dynamic links... While I go looking for the pix, here's a good reason for taking your pet with you: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 ... And here are some adorable family pets I wouldn't leave home without: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 link doesn't work for me Jose... dam_n dynamic links... While I go looking for the pix, here's a good reason for taking your pet with you: I've seen this dog, on the bridge between MBK and Siam Center, right? Saw him one day with a guy and was tempted to give money until I saw him the next day with a different guy. The dog is a pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galong Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 A dog got hit by a truck in front of my house a couple of weeks ago. A Thai guy pulled it off the road and left it for dead (not the same guy who hit the dog). He was an extremely bloody mess, but he was breathing! I told my wife to call the vet (10PM) and send the ambulance. She did. It didn't come, so my step-daughter took the dog to the vet herself. Yesterday, the vet said my new dog was ready to come back. Hmm, they weren't able to close the nasty cut on his lip, so it's going to heal open... yuk. He could barely stand up. I don't know if he has brain damage or not either. So far this stray has cost me 6,000 Baht. I'm going to get his nuts cut off... more $$. It'll end up being more than 10,000 Baht I'm sure. The vet said it would normally be more, but he felt sorry for the dog too and appreciated what me and my wife were doing. My other dogs will accept this guy. My normally aggressive dog (Galong, a three-legged hound) just looked at him when he saw him. Normally, he'd at least bark a few times. Maybe he understands what this poor guys has gone through. He did see us rescue him. I'm going to take him in and give him a very good life. He's old, so I don't know how long he'll live, but I would NEVER leave a dog to suffer a horrible death after an accident. This will be the 5 stray I've taken in. I love all of my dogs and treat them like they were my children. I can't for the life of me figure out how people can be so cruel to animals... or other people. Personally, I'm in the "do what you can, when you can and where you can" camp. I was brought up to care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfe Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 galong, hats off for you, that is exactly how i think and what i do. if just more ppl had a heart for these wonderful creatures and would know how much they can give back and how they can enrich ones life! i wish your rescued dog a wonderful life with you and still many happy years!! if you can't see a dog suffer, you will end up with many, like myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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