Baht Bus Article - Pattayamail 6th June - Page 2

[torrenova]

We all know the answer is to take 50% of them off the road, stop them parking up and onlywanting to work private hire and to get some proper taxis to work on the meter.

Until then, the little bastards can starve on their Bt5 or Bt10 forever (which they won't as the maths proves) save the few good ones.

[jastheace]

We all know the answer is to take 50% of them off the road, stop them parking up and onlywanting to work private hire and to get some proper taxis to work on the meter.

Until then, the little bastards can starve on their Bt5 or Bt10 forever (which they won't as the maths proves) save the few good ones.

i remmber about a year ago (or just before the prices went up due to fuel inflation) a bkk taxi,meter on of course,i could go a 17 km trip for about 100 b.no rip offs and an absolute bargain,still cheap now,i salute these guys !!! ( the ones that don't smell of a sang som distellary anyway)

[PattayaParent]

So why do you keep using the baht buses ? They ARE NOT an essential PUBLIC service. There ARE alternatives. NO ONE forces you to use them.

They ARE an essential public service.

What are the alternatives? Walk, ride a dangerous motorcy, use the airconditioned public bus service that the Baht Bus Mafia kicked up such a stink about and got shut down, use the new Metered Taxi service that is owned by the Baht Bus Mafia and refuses to use the meter.

Have I missed any out?

And why isn't there a regular baht bus service along Third Road? Thepprasit? North Road? all of which are now all built up business and residential areas that people need a reliable public service to access. The empty and parked up baht buses could be making money servicing those routes.

[BugJackBaron]

So why do you keep using the baht buses ? They ARE NOT an essential PUBLIC service. There ARE alternatives. NO ONE forces you to use them.

They ARE an essential public service.

What are the alternatives? Walk, ride a dangerous motorcy, use the airconditioned public bus service that the Baht Bus Mafia kicked up such a stink about and got shut down, use the new Metered Taxi service that is owned by the Baht Bus Mafia and refuses to use the meter.

Have I missed any out?

And why isn't there a regular baht bus service along Third Road? Thepprasit? North Road? all of which are now all built up business and residential areas that people need a reliable public service to access. The empty and parked up baht buses could be making money servicing those routes.

I don't know how long you have lived here but there WAS an experiment to set up regular buses last year

and you can still see the bus-stop signs on Jomtien. Unfortunately noone used it and it went kaput.

[farangtingtong]

So why do you keep using the baht buses ? They ARE NOT an essential PUBLIC service. There ARE alternatives. NO ONE forces you to use them.

They ARE an essential public service.

What are the alternatives? Walk, ride a dangerous motorcy, use the airconditioned public bus service that the Baht Bus Mafia kicked up such a stink about and got shut down, use the new Metered Taxi service that is owned by the Baht Bus Mafia and refuses to use the meter.

Have I missed any out?

And why isn't there a regular baht bus service along Third Road? Thepprasit? North Road? all of which are now all built up business and residential areas that people need a reliable public service to access. The empty and parked up baht buses could be making money servicing those routes.

Because it's more fun to drive in circles around 2nd rd and beach rd, not only more fun, but more chances of hitting a foreigner, and more colleagues (approx. 1000).

[Kerryd]

So why do you keep using the baht buses ? They ARE NOT an essential PUBLIC service. There ARE alternatives. NO ONE forces you to use them.

They ARE an essential public service.

What are the alternatives? Walk, ride a dangerous motorcy, use the airconditioned public bus service that the Baht Bus Mafia kicked up such a stink about and got shut down, use the new Metered Taxi service that is owned by the Baht Bus Mafia and refuses to use the meter.

As I said, there are alternatives. If people don't like the baht buses, and don't like the alternatives, well there's not much I or anyone else can do about that.

People gripe about being charged 10 baht. People gripe about paying even more for an alternative.

What do you people expect ! A FREE service that will take you anywhere, anytime ?

I can see the hordes of farangs scrambling for their balconies the moment the baht bus mafia gets approval to actually charge the 10 baht fare they've been getting away with so far. Sawang Boriboon will be kept real busy if the fare were to increase to 15 baht !

I suggest that if the fare increase is approved, that everyone get a copy of whatever official document shows the new rates (in Thai) and every time you take a baht bus have that piece of paper with you. If the driver tries to overcharge you on the new fare, show him the paper. If that doesn't appease him, call 1155 and let them sort it out.

I don't know how long you have lived here but there WAS an experiment to set up regular buses last year

and you can still see the bus-stop signs on Jomtien. Unfortunately noone used it and it went kaput.

If I recall correctly, this was the one that was doing the Red Line/Green Line kind of routes ?

The one that was charging 30 baht per fare (even if you were only going a couple hundred meters), but if you baht a 90 baht ticket, you could ride all day, getting on and off as often as you liked ?

As you mentioned, no one was using them (and not just because of the mafia). Most of the people that would use the system were (naturally) Thais, who I assume couldn't see the reason to spend 30 baht for a ride they could do in a baht bus for 5 baht (normally).

Had they been charging a 10 baht fare, they would quite likely have gotten more riders (but then, I think we discussed this at the time, the system was designed to fail from the beginning. It was set up more to show the people that the administration was doing something about the traffic problems, but they didn't want to p-o the "mafia" so they priced the fares too high and generally made it inconvenient for most people. This way they could show the high costs of running the buses couldn't be justified by the low ridership, and the whole project could be shelved (and various "incentives" pocketed ?).

So, any word yet about if the fare increase has been approved (or not) ?

[Naam]

But while you (all of you) are thinking about this horrendous news, take a moment to consider something. For as long as I can remember, the fare has been (5/10) baht. Even way back when gas was a mere 17 baht a liter (or less). It has been the same

the fare was 5/10 Baht (Thai/Farang) when gasoline was 7.50 Baht a litre! (although the Baht was stronger then) those bitching about a 5, 10 or 20 Baht fare should undergo a thorough examination by a neurologist followed by months of treatment by a shrink

[Naam]

I can see the hordes of farangs scrambling for their balconies the moment the baht bus mafia gets approval to actually charge the 10 baht fare they've been getting away with so far.

R.I.P.

[mrsmith]

lets put a meter on every thing that moves!!!!!!!!!! bus,taxi,tuktuk,boat,mc,kitty,plane, train

auto,include a recording device for the amount,then the government can collect tax on it.

We all know the answer is to take 50% of them off the road, stop them parking up and onlywanting to work private hire and to get some proper taxis to work on the meter.

Until then, the little bastards can starve on their Bt5 or Bt10 forever (which they won't as the maths proves) save the few good ones.

[torrenova]

The buses were deliberately sabotaged as they had no timetable and you never knew whether the next one was in 1 minutes or 1 hour.

[JSixpack]

People gripe about being charged 10 baht. . . .

I can see the hordes of farangs scrambling for their balconies the moment the baht bus mafia gets approval to actually charge the 10 baht fare they've been getting away with so far. Sawang Boriboon will be kept real busy if the fare were to increase to 15 baht !

Hogwash. You are just blind to the real issue, as Olympians are.

Nobody is complaing about the price per se. You never see posts railing about BTS or taxi fares in BKK. Motorcycle taxis, while unloved, don't inspire nearly the number of rants and the hatred.

What we don't like is being cheated, and cheated on a racially discriminatory basis. Other issues flow from that.

If everyone was charged the same fare, as is normal for mass public transportation throughout the world including Bangkok (not ignoring special senior discounts for which proof must be shown), the complaints would disappear, whether it was 10, 15, or 20 baht. If the regulation was written into law that all foreigners must pay more, and the amounts fixed and clearly posted, and a Thai ID card or proof of permanent residence or workpermit must be shown to receive the lower fare (to end the racial discrimination), then almost all complaints would disappear as well. If everyone must show proof of income to "qualify" for the lower/higher fare, the complaints would disappear. And why exactly don't we have such transparency?

Note that you don't pay more for electricity and water because you are a farang. Why is that? If you were, then, yes, you could just sit in the dark and you could gather rainwater. Your reductio ad absurdum arguments don't help your case at all.

We also have the issues of far too many buses, the erratic driving, stealing your change, kicking people off the bus, failing to follow the route, the rudeness, the pollution etc. All these are symptomatic of the moral failure in the system that condones the cheating of farang to subsidize the system and kickback to the mafia dons. If the cheating disappeared and hence the baht buses properly regulated, these issues would mitigate or disappear as well.

Note the price of public bus service in Bangkok and how Thais and farang use it all the time. BTS is packed now too, though much more expensive. In PTY we could have a real bus system w/ cheap fares, real taxi meters, a light rail system . . . many fair and reasonable alternatives for public mass transit, which is what we are talking about. (Motorcycle taxis, which you cite obsessively, are not public mass transit.) It does not have to be expensive and Thais would use it just as they do in BKK. The proof is BKK.

Edited June 10, 2008 by JSixpack

[PattayaParent]

I don't know how long you have lived here but there WAS an experiment to set up regular buses last year

and you can still see the bus-stop signs on Jomtien. Unfortunately noone used it and it went kaput.

I've lived here a long time and it was a lot longer ago than only last year when a proper bus service was first introduced. And it wasn't lack of use that forced it to stop.

Anyone remember the Baht Bus Mafia objections to it? How they had the service restricted? And how they blocked the bus stops with their songthaews? And how they drove en masse in front of the busses to prevent them from operating? And threatening the drivers?

The only alternative to the baht bus is like it or lump it because the Baht Bus Mafia control the transport system in Pattaya, except Shanks Pony which Kerryd obviously uses.

[sohn]

Yes i do and the police did F/A.

Mafia Baht bus system.

BTW Kerryd is never wrong,, not in three years.

Edited June 10, 2008 by sohn

[PattayaParent]

Yes i do and the police did F/A.

Mafia Baht bus system.

BTW Kerryd is never wrong,, not in three years.

The police do nothing because a lot of police own the licences for the baht buses.

[sohn]

I'm sure the family of police do, but police directly owning a baht bus license

Don't think so, there not that stupid. If they are name them

Edited June 10, 2008 by sohn

[scotsman]

Very good post from jsixpack and all so very true. I think the official price should have gone up to 10 baht for everyone Thai / farang a longtime ago as the price of fuel has gone up every year. It will not change the behavior of any baht taxi driver who will still do all the things that jsixpack said in his post. Because of that I stopped using the baht taxi service a longtime ago I have never set foot in one for over 2 years. I walk everywhere or drive my car or go with my wife on the motor bike. Now if and when there will be a good fair public transport system in pattaya I will probably use it but thats not going to happen for another 10 years or so. We all have to make choices in life so if you want to support the mafia who runs this very corrupt, racist & violent public transport system then thats your choice I for one have not I voted with my wallet as that is all I can do.

regards

scotsman

[Kerryd]

Note the price of public bus service in Bangkok and how Thais and farang use it all the time. BTS is packed now too, though much more expensive. In PTY we could have a real bus system w/ cheap fares, real taxi meters, a light rail system . . . many fair and reasonable alternatives for public mass transit, which is what we are talking about. (Motorcycle taxis, which you cite obsessively, are not public mass transit.) It does not have to be expensive and Thais would use it just as they do in BKK. The proof is BKK.

Show me where I have "obsessively" cited moto taxis. I have pointed out that they are an alternative to baht buses (oh and just everyone knows, moto-taxis will often try to overcharge and/or short change you as well, especially if you do not negotiate the fare ahead of time).

Of course if there were alternatives (i.e. light rail system, proper public bus system, etc) the Thais would use them, because if we had those, we most likely wouldn't have the baht buses so they would have no choice (really). I notice that even though Bangkok has those things, there are still hordes of tuk-tuks, moto-taxis and unmetered cabs, which are also used by the locals.

But of course, those other systems (public buses, metered taxis, light rail systems) are more expensive than the baht buses though, aren't they ? And getting more expensive as these recent articles mention:

Transport approves rise in taxi fares

Bus fares to increase

Of course, the advantage with them is they don't (as far as I know) employ a double-pricing system.

Sounds good to me. Get rid of the double-pricing baht bus system, and replace it with something that employs "one price for all" but is 3+ times more expensive.

(I don't think we should even considered the idea of a "light rail" systems for Pattaya. They can't even complete the Walking Street sign after how many months ? What kind of chaos would installing a mass-transit system create, and how many years of delays and construction problems and so on would we have to endure while waiting for it to be completed (if it ever did get completed) ?

[JSixpack]

Sounds good to me. Get rid of the double-pricing baht bus system, and replace it with something that employs "one price for all" but is 3+ times more expensive.

Glad you're beginning to see reason. But you seem still a bit hung up on pricing, which is not really the issue anyway. Old misconceptions die hard, eh?

Sigh. You see, the one-price-for-all buses in BKK are hardly 3+ times more expensive than the baht buses; in fact, the opposite is closer to the truth.

With the coming fare increase in Pattaya, BKK buses will be cheaper for all (as they are NOW for farangs) on a short journey and on a longer journey even more absurdly cheap, even with air-con and far more comfortable seating. And that makes perfect economic sense, as given their larger capacity and longer service life they are far more efficient.

You can easily verify this fact for yourself by taking one of them across town. Compare the price you paid per kilometer with the price of a baht bus in PTY (including of course your farang extortion money).

And then you'll finally be clear on how legally and transparently regulated public transportation works out to be cheaper and better for all--except a mafia--and why you seldom hear any complaints from farangs about the public mass transportation system in BKK despite its own imperfections.

[PattayaParent]

Sounds good to me. Get rid of the double-pricing baht bus system, and replace it with something that employs "one price for all" but is 3+ times more expensive.

It costs me 120 Baht to go to Bangkok from Pattaya.

Why should it cost me 150 Baht to go from Royal Garden Plaza to Pratumnak in a baht bus or a new 'taxi meter'?

The bus fares in Bangkok are a lot cheaper than that.

[Naam]

What we don't like is being cheated, and cheated on a racially discriminatory basis

yaaaawwwwwnnnnn...

[Lancashirelad]

The answer is really quite simple though, isn't it ?

If you went to the cinema and they charged you double for your ticket, would you keep going back ?

If you went to a restaurant and they charged you double for the same meal that your Thai friend had, would you continue going there ?

If you went in to a barbershop that charged 80 baht for a haircut, but they charged you double, would you continue going there?

i guess you guys haven't been to Egypt then?

If Egyptions want to pay an entry fee for somewhere (eg pyramids), buy a train ticket, whatever, they have to show their passport to get the locals price. The tourist price is much higher!

For those who insist on only paying 5 bht, i can see your point, but have you ever wondered why, just when you really need a bus, (raining, late at night, need a p, whatever) one stops for you, but just as you're about to climb aboard, he drives away? Thais have a brilliant memory for faces!

[Lancashirelad]

I don't know how long you have lived here but there WAS an experiment to set up regular buses last year

and you can still see the bus-stop signs on Jomtien. Unfortunately noone used it and it went kaput.

I've lived here a long time and it was a lot longer ago than only last year when a proper bus service was first introduced.

Indeed it was. The red & maybe yellow routes started about January 2004 with Green route following in 05. How dangerous was that when it used to come the wrong way down 2nd road as far as Topps!?

And it wasn't lack of use that forced it to stop.

Anyone remember the Baht Bus Mafia objections to it? How they had the service restricted? And how they blocked the bus stops with their songthaews? And how they drove en masse in front of the busses to prevent them from operating? And threatening the drivers?

Most of that, yes, i do. But that was because at that point the buses were free.

Very convenient they were too. I was staying in Soi 1 at the time. There were infact scheduled time tables available, but i doubt very much they ran to them.

I'm sure i saw the red line was still running when i was there in March this year.

[NduguChancellor]

If you are capable or parsing an English sentence you will be quickly able to deduce that the correct fare is 5 baht for everyone. Nowhere does anything say the price is different for Thais or non-Thais.

Stop apologising for the gutless here who say it is ok to double pay the hideous baht bus drivers.

Personally I laugh at each and every one of the rolling criminals and hope the increase in diesel bankrupts each one of them. They have been stealing from the passengers for years and now it is time for their payback.

Good on them.

[Kerryd]

If you are capable or (of) parsing an English sentence you will be quickly able to deduce that the correct fare is 5 baht for everyone. Nowhere does anything say the price is different for Thais or non-Thais.

Stop apologising for the gutless here who say it is ok to double pay the hideous baht bus drivers.

Personally I laugh at each and every one of the rolling criminals and hope the increase in diesel bankrupts each one of them. They have been stealing from the passengers for years and now it is time for their payback.

Good on them.

Wow. And that coming from someone who uses a picture of Jesus as his avatar, and comes from "The right side of God".

No "turn the other cheek", or "forgive and forget". Just vengeful wrath and fury.

Must be tough to live in a city full of heathens and sinners, and then have to deal with hideous, theiving, criminal baht bus drivers as well !

[CHdiver]

I once did a calculation and compared the price of public transport in Zurich with Pattaya. If you buy a monthly Pass in Zurich, then public transport is cheaper there, then in Pattaya using Bahtbusses (a one year pass makes it even cheaper) Also you get access to most of the parts of the city, not just some mainroads. You may have to wait some minutes till you get a ride. A single ride is cheaper here, but if you want to use Bahtbusses on a regular basis, then it get's expensive.