? Dual Citizen, Entry Visa

[Spowser]

It's been 3 years since my wife's been back to Thailand. She's naturalized as an American citizen now but kept Thai identity too.

She'll be going back soon and because of the Homeland Security bs she thinks she should leave and re-enter the US on her brand new American passport. In Thailand, will she be given the standard 30 day visa, or will they recognize her Thai citizenship and giver her the proper visa to allow her to stay as long as she wants?

As her spouse, can I get more than a 30 day visa as well? We still have primary residence in the US but in coming years hope to stay half the year in each country.

Thanks for reading this, and especially for any solid info

[gusgorman]

I presume if she is still holding Thai citizen ship she has a Thai Passport yes? If so she can just use that to enter Thailand and stay as a normal Thai person would. This what my kids do, use there UK passport when entering UK and Thai passport when coming back here.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It's been 3 years since my wife's been back to Thailand. She's naturalized as an American citizen now but kept Thai identity too.

She'll be going back soon and because of the Homeland Security bs she thinks she should leave and re-enter the US on her brand new American passport. In Thailand, will she be given the standard 30 day visa, or will they recognize her Thai citizenship and giver her the proper visa to allow her to stay as long as she wants?

As her spouse, can I get more than a 30 day visa as well? We still have primary residence in the US but in coming years hope to stay half the year in each country.

Thanks for reading this, and especially for any solid info

You need to get a visa before entry to Thailand to exceed the 30 day stay. Being married to a Thai will get you a Non-Immigrant O visa.

[thaihome]

US citizens are required to enter and leave the US on US passports. Not a new requirement. Note that the US does not have exit immigration, exiting consists of showing passport to airline check-in counter.

Does your wife have a valid Thai passport? If not suggest she contact nearest Thai Consulate and get one, should be in same name on US passport, makes things much simpler. She will enter Thailand on the Thai passport, and have no limitation on how long she can stay.

While you are there, you can get a one year multi entry Non-Immigrant type “O” visa, which will allow you stay in Thailand for 90 days. You will need to have your marriage certificate and your wife’s Thai ID card (or passport I believe).

TH

[Spowser]

US citizens are required to enter and leave the US on US passports. Not a new requirement. Note that the US does not have exit immigration, exiting consists of showing passport to airline check-in counter.

Does your wife have a valid Thai passport? If not suggest she contact nearest Thai Consulate and get one, should be in same name on US passport, makes things much simpler. She will enter Thailand on the Thai passport, and have no limitation on how long she can stay.

While you are there, you can get a one year multi entry Non-Immigrant type "O" visa, which will allow you stay in Thailand for 90 days. You will need to have your marriage certificate and your wife's Thai ID card (or passport I believe).

TH

Thanks for the reply.

Both her passports are current. Name is slightly different on her US passport-her name hyphenated to my last name.

If she re-enters US without any stamps or visas from another country, isn't that too weird for US customs? I wonder if they'll stamp her US passport but admit her on her Thai passport.

[lopburi3]

US law requires she use her US passport for entry and exit of the US. They are well aware of multi passports and the fact is many countries do not even bother to stamp passports these days so it is no unusual.

[Spowser]

that's good news.

Thanks all!

[Brigante7]

My wife ruturned to Thailand for a 4 week holiday in February after living in the UK for 18 months and attempted to enter Thailand on her Thai passport, which is current, and was sent away and told to fill out an immigration card before she could enter Thailand, thought it was wrong but I didn't want to argue incase they refused entry to me and our son.

[Spowser]

Mmmm, that's bad news.

I called the consul today, and she was advised to apply for an O non-immigrant visa.

[lopburi3]

She must have an arrival card - all travelers must have such a card. In the case of Thai it works backwards and they normally fill out on the exit from Thailand - but if she did not have a card so she would to fill one out for entry immigration.

Now if you are saying she was forced to use her UK passport for entry it would have been a case of an official making decisions he can not make and she should have asked for a supervisor. If you are Thai you are allowed to enter as a Thai using a Thai passport.

[samran]

My wife ruturned to Thailand for a 4 week holiday in February after living in the UK for 18 months and attempted to enter Thailand on her Thai passport, which is current, and was sent away and told to fill out an immigration card before she could enter Thailand, thought it was wrong but I didn't want to argue incase they refused entry to me and our son.

All Thai passport holders need to fill in an arrivals card, as lop says.

Usually, you fill in the arrivals card which was stapled into your passport when you departed, but if she had lost that one, or had a new Thai passport issued in London, then she would have had to have filled in a new arrivals card.

[Brigante7]

My wife ruturned to Thailand for a 4 week holiday in February after living in the UK for 18 months and attempted to enter Thailand on her Thai passport, which is current, and was sent away and told to fill out an immigration card before she could enter Thailand, thought it was wrong but I didn't want to argue incase they refused entry to me and our son.

All Thai passport holders need to fill in an arrivals card, as lop says.

Usually, you fill in the arrivals card which was stapled into your passport when you departed, but if she had lost that one, or had a new Thai passport issued in London, then she would have had to have filled in a new arrivals card.

Thanks for clearing that up, thank god I didn't make a scene.

[samran]

My wife ruturned to Thailand for a 4 week holiday in February after living in the UK for 18 months and attempted to enter Thailand on her Thai passport, which is current, and was sent away and told to fill out an immigration card before she could enter Thailand, thought it was wrong but I didn't want to argue incase they refused entry to me and our son.

All Thai passport holders need to fill in an arrivals card, as lop says.

Usually, you fill in the arrivals card which was stapled into your passport when you departed, but if she had lost that one, or had a new Thai passport issued in London, then she would have had to have filled in a new arrivals card.

Thanks for clearing that up, thank god I didn't make a scene.

happy to help. Sounds like your son is eligible for a Thai PP as well....

[roskruge]

All this sounds a little strange to me, for as far as I know to become a US citizen you have to renounce all other nationalities.

I say this because Mr Rupert Murdoch (the publisher) who was an Australian citizen by birth, had to renounce his Aus citizenship to become a US citizen.

Some countries permit duel nationality like UK, Australia, and I think Canada some do not, I believe Germany does not.

Just because one still has the old passport does not mean you are still a citizen.

But on all of the above I stand to be corrected, because I am not sure of the official position.

[lopburi3]

You do not have to renounce any other citizenship to take US citizenship.

[samran]

All this sounds a little strange to me, for as far as I know to become a US citizen you have to renounce all other nationalities.

I say this because Mr Rupert Murdoch (the publisher) who was an Australian citizen by birth, had to renounce his Aus citizenship to become a US citizen.

Some countries permit duel nationality like UK, Australia, and I think Canada some do not, I believe Germany does not.

Just because one still has the old passport does not mean you are still a citizen.

But on all of the above I stand to be corrected, because I am not sure of the official position.

Rupert Murdoch lost his Australian citizenship due to Australian law, not due to American law.

While Australian law never prohibited people holding more than one passport, prior to 2002 the law stated that if an Australian citizen took out another citizenship (while they were an Australian citizen) then they would automatically lose Australian citizenship under section 17 of the Australian citizenship act of 1949

The southern cross group is an advocacy group of Australians overseas campaigned hard for Section 17 to be removed, which is was in 2002.

http://www.southern-cross-group.org/archiv..._Section_17.pdf

The new Australian Ctizenship Act of 2007 opens up the way for former Australian citizens to easily reapply for their citizenship. If he hasn't done so already, then I suspect Mr Murdoch will want to get his back at some stage soon.

[Brigante7]

My wife ruturned to Thailand for a 4 week holiday in February after living in the UK for 18 months and attempted to enter Thailand on her Thai passport, which is current, and was sent away and told to fill out an immigration card before she could enter Thailand, thought it was wrong but I didn't want to argue incase they refused entry to me and our son.

All Thai passport holders need to fill in an arrivals card, as lop says.

Usually, you fill in the arrivals card which was stapled into your passport when you departed, but if she had lost that one, or had a new Thai passport issued in London, then she would have had to have filled in a new arrivals card.

Thanks for clearing that up, thank god I didn't make a scene.

happy to help. Sounds like your son is eligible for a Thai PP as well....

Yeah, we are heading down to London next month to get his Passport and birth certificate.

[dclaryjr]

My wife has her old Thai passport in her former name, and has our marraige certificate. I don't think, however, that she has her old ID card. Is it possible for her to get a new passport while still in the U.S., or is she going to have to wait until she enters as a tourist and gets everything she needs on that trip? It would be nice if she could get that passport--that would save one visa when we go next time.

[sendbaht]

"All this sounds a little strange to me, for as far as I know to become a US citizen you have to renounce all other nationalities."

This was true many years ago but not now.

I have some older Thai friends and when he got his US citsenship he had to give up his Thai passport and citzenship, then years later his with because a US citizen and it was a complete differant story.

My Thai wife became a US citizen last month. Now she is a citizen of the USA and Thailand...

[Arkady]

All this sounds a little strange to me, for as far as I know to become a US citizen you have to renounce all other nationalities.

I say this because Mr Rupert Murdoch (the publisher) who was an Australian citizen by birth, had to renounce his Aus citizenship to become a US citizen.

Some countries permit duel nationality like UK, Australia, and I think Canada some do not, I believe Germany does not.

Just because one still has the old passport does not mean you are still a citizen.

But on all of the above I stand to be corrected, because I am not sure of the official position.

Murdoch renounced his Australian citizenship to get around US laws on foreign ownership of media.

[old wanderer]

My wife has her old Thai passport in her former name, and has our marraige certificate. I don't think, however, that she has her old ID card. Is it possible for her to get a new passport while still in the U.S., or is she going to have to wait until she enters as a tourist and gets everything she needs on that trip? It would be nice if she could get that passport--that would save one visa when we go next time.

To get her Thai passport in her married name, 1st you must change her Thai ID card.

This was a Pain in the butt when my wife did it. 1st under the old system you simply took a certified copy of your marriage license and they did a name change endorsement. Now with the biometric passports, they use the data on her Thai ID card ONLY NO EXCEPTIONS>

After she renewed her passport just before we left on a trip (space case did not notice her Thai passport had expired). It was in her single name, even though we had changed the previous passport. Got all the forms to change her Thai ID card stamped by the consulate, went all the way to Surin, (Actually Sukornikohn...as you must change ID cards where you were born) and they were rejected because they lacked a Green Stamp for the Minister of Consular Affairs (I think that was the office). So back to Bangkok but we did not bring all the certified documents with us, since we had the form we thought we needed. Next trip we got it all sorted out, and she got her new ID card, then we had to pay for a new passport when we returned to the USA.

In the mean time, all the tickets were purchased in her married name, and getting through security was "interesting".

[dclaryjr]

To get her Thai passport in her married name, 1st you must change her Thai ID card.

Thanks for the info. I think we'll just go on the visa next trip and she can get the id card issued worked while in LOS.

[jetjock]

The question the OP brought up on dual citizenship is an interesting topic as it brings up an additional question or point of converstion. My wife recently spoke to her uncle who is a Thai immigration officer and he advised her that when she gets her dual citizenship next year and she becomes a US, even though she would still be able enter Thailand on her Thai citizenship, she would be better off to use her US citizenship when she enters Thailand. He said that was expecially true for a short stay but even for a long stay he recommended that she get the appropriate visas. His reasoning was that when someone with dual citizenship enters Thailand on their Thai passport, they lose all the protection afforded by their other country of citizenship. In other words, in her case, if she enters Thailand on her Thai passport and any some unforeseen problem occcurs in Thailand, she would lose the protection and help that the US goverment embassy would normally have to offer it's citizens .

I also realize that this is just his opinion and the chances of a problem arising are very minimal however I must admit that "if" his argument is true then the reasoning does sound logical. I know for me personally, I would not like to lose the protection afforded by the US goverment when I am in another country even though the backing may be sometimes be somewhat minimal. I do not know for sure if it is correct about someone losing the protection of their other citizenship under the conditions I mentioned so would enjoy hearing if anyone has any other information or thoughts on the subject.

Edited June 15, 2008 by jetjock

[Maestro]

Jetjock, are you sure that in case of an emergency while in Thailand your Thai wife would prefer to deal with the US consulate rather than with the Thai authorities?

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Maestro

[jetjock]

Jetjock, are you sure that in case of an emergency while in Thailand your Thai wife would prefer to deal with the US consulate rather than with the Thai authorities?

--

Maestro

The honest answer to your question is that I would like her to have the best of both worlds and be able to take advantage of both the Thai and US consulate if some unforseen issue ever came up.

I would guess that once a Thai with a permanent resident card is in Thailand, the issue of what country of origin of passport they last used to enter the country would not even be an issue once they were inside Thailand and they would normally be treated in Thailand as a Thai citizen by the Thai authorities. My question more pertains to determining if one would lose the additional help or protection of their other country's citizenship if for some reason they were in Thailand on their Thai passport and accidentally got involved in some situation where it might be legally beneficial for them to seek the help of the government consulate of their other citizenship.

My question in my previous post was purely hypothetical and put out as food for thought as I find the issue quite interesting. I am not sure of the correct answer however the answer to the question could be of importance to a dual citizen entering Thailand that did not want to give up any of the added protections and help available from the government and consulate of their other citizenship.

[lopburi3]

Unless you are a Thai male subject to military service do not believe there would be much "protection" afforded and you would be subject to all the non immigrant requirements of other visitors. All the US can do for citizens is visit and advise of lawyers if required. US passport is not a Monopoly "get out of jail free" card. The US makes it easy - you must enter/exit using your US passport if you have one.

[samran]

Unless you are a Thai male subject to military service do not believe there would be much "protection" afforded and you would be subject to all the non immigrant requirements of other visitors. All the US can do for citizens is visit and advise of lawyers if required. US passport is not a Monopoly "get out of jail free" card. The US makes it easy - you must enter/exit using your US passport if you have one.

Further to this is whether consular assistance is afforded to you in the case of dual nationality. Regardless of what passport you enter on two things may happen:

1) Thailand may refuse access to consular assistance given that you are still a thai national (entering on a different passport doesn't change the fact).

2) The US may refuse to offer said assistance in a situation where a person is also a dual national in that country.

The best source of information on this is the US embassy themselves as to how these situations are handled.

In any case, I think the discussion is all rather academic. As lop correctly points out, a US/Western passport isn't a get out of jail card. The most I've seen happen is that they help you find legal representation if you get into trouble, and if you are indeed put into jail for a long time, then then some embassies organise for some small funds to be transferred so you can buy simple necessities in jail.

Where foreigners I know have (unfortunately) been caught up in hassels, especially where they are known to be innocent, it is the local expat community who end up helping, offering free legal services/advisory, pulling in favours, etc etc to help the person out. One case in particular I know of where the Australian expat community rallied around one guy who unfortunately had been implicated in underhand contractual dealings, even though he wasn't involved at all. After an initial conviction, during the appeals process people came out of the woodwork and provided monies and advice for the legal defense, and the conviction was (rightly) quashed.

The embassy is rather hamstrung/powerless to help much (this of course depends on the embassy) based on their own rules, and what they can/can't do based on the Vienna treaties on consular and diplomatic rights (ie they are NOT allowed to interfere with domestic events).

On balance of practicalities, entering on the thai passport offers a range of benefits, the main one being that you are not subject to immigration restrictions for the duration of your stay.

[Maestro]

Jetjock, it happens rarely that the USA has to send in the marines to evacuate US citizens from a foreign country (Grenada, 1983) but this would probably be a situation where your Thai wife could benefit from being in Thailand on her US passport.

What I find particularly interesting is that a Thai immigration officer, her uncle, suggested to her to enter Thailand on her US passport.

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Maestro

[astral]

You do not have to renounce any other citizenship to take US citizenship.

Agreed.

There are MANY Lebanese who also hold US passports.

[astral]

Jetjock, it happens rarely that the USA has to send in the marines to evacuate US citizens from a foreign country (Grenada, 1983) but this would probably be a situation where your Thai wife could benefit from being in Thailand on her US passport.

No need to enter LOS on the US passport to get assistance.

Just let the US embassy know of your presence, so they know where to find you if trouble erupts.

They will not bother about what stamps you have in your passport,

just the fact that you possess it.