Expats Posing As Us Residents For Banking/credit Purposes

[jumnien]

Tens of thousand years ago man began a tradition of nomadic living which many of us continue today. There are a few of us who have a permanent fixed abode we go home to each and every night. The rest of us are nomads. We fill out forms to the best of our ability. When some one asks me to write a residence on line 16 of a form, I write a residence. This is not to be construed as a lie. We do the best we can to squeeze a description of our lives on the various forms asked of us by our local banks and such and their employess in India and Ghana.

[percy2]

I suppose it was exceedingly silly of me to hope for a serious discussion on this topic.

Yeah, pretty much. (That's a lie. I lie about everything, even about lying)

I was raised to be totally honest and to withhold truth only when it can be detrimental to others (you know, the Bush doctrine) and I stand by that teaching to this day. Sometimes however, honesty can be tough to deal with, both for ourselves and others. I recall a wife of mine (long, long ago) asking, "Did you have sex with her?!" Sticking with my code of total honesty, I replied, "No, I did not." This of course was very disappointing for her as she seemed to need some excuse for being such a bitch.

I have lived here full-time for seven years but do maintain some US connections such as a bank account, VA and Social Security, a Hawaii drivers license, etc. but have never had to be dishonest in my dealings. My VA and SS is deposited in my American bank (the VA will not direct deposit to a bank in Thailand), the DMV in Hawaii mails my license renewals to my Thailand address, my bank mails my and my wife's debit cards to our Thailand address, the Internal Revenue Svc mails my forms to my Thailand address, the FAA mails anything related to my commercial license to my Thailand address, et al..

Admittedly Hawaii wants me back for every other driver's license renewal (10 years) but that is primarily to update the photograph (my current license has, in place of a picture, the statement, "Valid Without Photo")

Surely there are some ancient residency requirements for drivers licenses or, umm, something else but I would have a problem with having to establish residency in my own country other than for State-related issues; even then there is no way it would be 'sleazy' to dot some i's and cross some t's so that I can drive a car down to Florida to visit my own mother in my own country..

Honesty, for those employees stuck in the world of government rules and regulations, is an abstract concept which has nothing whatsoever to do with your character...

(Everything I just wrote, including this, is a lie...)

So you did have sex with her!

Or was it only a BJ?

Would that make your Bushspeak Slick Williesque?

Cheers

[Jingthing]

The focus of this thread seems to be on expats but the same argument could be made about USA RVers traveling within the USA, where some or if not many, no longer have real addresses. They generally use either a close family member's address or a mail forwarding company as their legal US residency for voting and financial requirements. I never heard anyone mention these people being sleazy.

Thank you. I wouldn't have thought of the RVer as being similar to an expat, but in regards to STATE residency, they are indeed. However, most US financial institutions require US residence as well, evidenced by STATE ID, so it really isn't exactly the same issue.

[Jimmyd]

Tens of thousand years ago man began a tradition of nomadic living which many of us continue today. There are a few of us who have a permanent fixed abode we go home to each and every night. The rest of us are nomads. We fill out forms to the best of our ability. When some one asks me to write a residence on line 16 of a form, I write a residence. This is not to be construed as a lie. We do the best we can to squeeze a description of our lives on the various forms asked of us by our local banks and such and their employess in India and Ghana.

I see that jingthing has ignored your post as he has latched on to the idea that people are liars and will not give up in the face of mere facts, instead resorting to calling people bipolar and other histrionics.

He has not, be fair to the lovely jingthing!

Shush, you silly voice. Back in your cage where you belong!

[PeaceBlondie]

Jingthing, I confess. I lie to my bank and my credit card issuer. I lied to my wife about sex, sometimes. I even lie about sex sometimes in Thailand ("so big, so long!!"). Mia culpa, mi padre, I confess that I am a liar. But I doubt I am a criminal liar, unless the Patriot Acts and the Real ID Act has made criminals of us all.

Jing, perhaps like me, you aren't very good at lying. We Texans are mainly good at exaggerating (so big, so long!). I lack the imagination to just keep compounding a bad lie. "Okay, bank officer Juan de Pinoy, I do not know if the Falcons are a pro team in Atlanta, and my mother's dog's maiden name was not Boots! Cancel my application!"

[Jingthing]

There is not a human being who has ever lived who has not LIED, alot. So deal with it.

I was not the one who raised the issue of whether this kind of lie (lying about your residence) is anything to worry about, legally, morally, karmically, sleazily, etc.

It was ANOTHER poster who raised the issue. I just ran with it and opened it to discussion with this topic.

Beyond that, I think people who are trying to say they are not lying when they are clearly lying have a different kind of problem with facing reality.

Edited June 10, 2008 by Jingthing

[TongueThaied]

Maybe this is a Yank thing. I am a Limey expat but am not a resident of Thailand even though I live here, as such I pay UK tax on my pension and am a resident of the UK even though I have no house there.

Residence and where you live are two different things.

Yes, I do think different countries handle this issue differently. In the US, citizenship (you usually never lost it), federal tax obligation (you usually never lose it, at least to file), state tax obligation (you can often lose it), and country of RESIDENCY are separated. US financial institutions usually want to deal with US RESIDENTS only, they don't care about your citizenship, they care about your RESIDENCY. If you are not a resident, some offer international options, but these often do not work for US expats (including me) to facilitate the money flow I need to show for Thai immigration.

[pampal]

My Citibank and Wells Fargo branch managers in LA know that I don't live in the USA and I live and work in Thailand and China. They never had a problem with it and I use my brothers address with no problems. I even used a Hong Kong issued Visa credit card, at the US banks for additional ID. Again no problems. Oh yeah, and I renewed my Cali drivers license. Yes you guessed it.

No problems

btw: Citibank allows international online transfers, but you must ask for it.

Edited January 9, 2009 by pampal

[samuibeachcomber]

I suppose it was exceedingly silly of me to hope for a serious discussion on this topic.

yes too much to expect...................now back to sleeping with a govt.employee.

[Jingthing]

My Citibank and Wells Fargo branch managers in LA know that I don't live in the USA and I live and work in Thailand and China. They never had a problem with it and I use my brothers address with no problems. I even used a Hong Kong issued Visa credit card, at the US banks for additional ID. Again no problems. Oh yeah, and I renewed my Cali drivers license. Yes you guessed it.

No problems

btw: Citibank allows international online transfers, but you must ask for it.

I am guessing you opened these accounts BEFORE you moved abroad?

The trouble with renewing state driver's licenses when you live abroad is that at least some (I am guessing most) states ask you to sign a statement saying you are a legal resident of that state and that's kind of a big illegal lie to sign if you do not.

Some people report no problems. Other people report many problems. Just because some individuals have been lucky are mere anecdotes. You would have to know the specific history of their actions for them to make any sense to new people trying to negotiate these waters. These issues are VERY REAL for Americans living abroad. My tactic of maintaining a big lie (faux US residence) has worked up till now, but I recognize it may not always work. It is a constantly shifting environment, new laws are passed, new policies come up, kind of like Thai immigration.

Edited January 9, 2009 by Jingthing

[bonobo]

I still own several homes in the US and have one there with all my belongings. That is what I keep as my US address, and I still pay all taxes, to include California income tax.  So I do not see any reason why I should not use that adress for banking or any other reason. Two of my banks know very well that I work in Thailand, and if they need me for any reason, they have to contact me here.

[Jimjim]

I don't see the problem if you are doing it to bank in the U.S. and get paid in the U.S. as long as you pay the IRS the proper taxes on those earnings. The only real problem would be with the IRS and if you do as I just said, they will not have a problem with you as they are getting their money.

[Langsuan Man]

One fact that no one has bothered to mention is the fact that Thailand makes it very clear that they do not want us as Permanent Residents. We get temporary tourist visas, temporary permission to stay, Non-Immigrant O-A Visa's, Visa extensions, 90 day reporting, etc. and every one of us knows that at any time they can deny our "permission" to stay or enter the Kingdom.

With this kind of "welcome" is it any wonder that some people are "posing" as residents for the purposes you have outlined in the subject of this post.

Will a Thai bank give me a credit card without a work permit ? NO

Will a Thai bank give me a house loan without a work permit ? NO

Can I buy land in my own name ? NO

When we can start having rights as a resident in Thailand then we will no longer have to "pose".

[Heng]

I think folks will be posing for quite awhile then.

[mojaco]

I am guessing you opened these accounts BEFORE you moved abroad?

The trouble with renewing state driver's licenses when you live abroad is that at least some (I am guessing most) states ask you to sign a statement saying you are a legal resident of that state and that's kind of a big illegal lie to sign if you do not.

Some people report no problems. Other people report many problems. Just because some individuals have been lucky are mere anecdotes. You would have to know the specific history of their actions for them to make any sense to new people trying to negotiate these waters. These issues are VERY REAL for Americans living abroad. My tactic of maintaining a big lie (faux US residence) has worked up till now, but I recognize it may not always work. It is a constantly shifting environment, new laws are passed, new policies come up, kind of like Thai immigration.

In the USA in the State of Oregon, I am still classified as a "resident" because that state law says once I became a legal "resident" there (which I did for many years) because I was "domiciled" there. So now, even though I am somewhere else, I still (someday) intend to return to Oregon as my home, hence I am still "domiciled" there (which depends on intent) and so am still a "resident". Here is the confusing Oregon law statement verbatum:

"An Oregon resident is someone who is domiciled in this state. "Domicile" is defined below:

Domicile. Domicile is the place you consider to be your home and where you plan to return after an absence. Intent is the deciding factor when you determine your domicile. The law assumes you have a domicile somewhere. It also assumes you have only one domicile. Domicile is a tax-law concept. Domicile is not the same as home, abode, or residence."

The Oregon drivers license also has a "continuous traveler" option which I may be forced to get the next time I renew my Oregon drivers license, since I don't (now) have an actual, physical, abode in Oregon. I agree that with the new security issues, things are going to get ever more confusing and difficult for those living overseas for long periods of time.

[Scott]

I've not been asked/forced to sign anything that was untrue about my residency. I have lived overseas for over 20 years. I have an AZ Driver's License--gotten about 10 years ago. I told them I live in Thailand and the lady told me they have a lot of people (at that time) from Germany who go to AZ to get a Driver's License. Apparently it's complicated and expensive in Germany. I had relatives and put their address on the license--no problem.

The ONLY problem I have ever had was when my mother put my name on the title of her house after my father's death and I got called for jury duty. They had to do some explaining that I actually didn't live there and never had. They wanted proof I wasn't there--she said you can go to Thailand and find him!

I, by the way, never signed the papers to put my name on the title, only my mother did that.

With credit cards there was a time they wouldn't send them to Thailand. So I didn't get them renewed (they suggested having them sent to a friend or relative who could forward them)!

There are a lot of different definitions about residency and a lot of different requirements. Las Vegas is a good example--marriage and divorce pretty easy there, but you have to be a resident.