Is It Really A Buyers Market For The Foreigner?

[TomBrown]

Recently I've been looking at buying a town house in Pattaya and I read other posts on ThaiVisa about it being a buyers market, but prices don't seem to be any more favourable than a while ago and with the continued strength of the Thai Baht against the British Pound, is it really a good time to buy... what's your opinion? (I know no one can fully foresee what's ahead in this market, but I'd be interested in your opinions.)

Edited June 12, 2008 by TomBrown

[LaoPo]

YES..it's a buyers' market but that's all over the world the same.

Wait...wait and wait..... and if you're hot for a certain property...offer a crazy low price and stick to it. Don't fall in love with a certain bundle of bricks !

LaoPo

[ignis]

Where I bought 4 year ago shell being built…. This project out in the sticks has 63 detached houses, 3 bed and 4 bed, across the road the same Project has another 61 houses [most now built] these are 2.59 million for the 3 bed and 3.99 for the 4 bed..

In our project there are 2 [second hand] 3 beds For Sale for less than the price paid 4 years ago + they have made kitchens at the back + water tank & pump + have window canopies + have window & door grills + gardens + extra tiled areas

Both are For Sale at 1.8 million….. For me fail to understand why the ‘new’ houses are selling across the road, when people could buy ready to move into for 7 – 800,000 baht cheaper, the same house by the same builders, by the same management that built this side.

Another ‘good deal’ look in the Banks in your area, they have ‘repossessed’ for sale, a UK Friend bought a 3bed Townhouse in the next Village for 465,000 last month..

[eljeque]

Asking Price does not equal Selling Price

All of the asking prices are for the properties which are not selling.

[LaoPo]

Asking Price does not equal Selling Price

All of the asking prices are for the properties which are not selling.

Indeed.

In a buyers market it's typical sellers attitude to stick to the asking price for as long as the seller can afford to. It depends on his financial background whether he can hold on for long or not.

But, the time will come that most of them are forced to sell for a (much) lower price though.

It's all about supply and demand.

LaoPo

[TomBrown]

Good advice, but isn't it usual that the Thai owner 'can' hold on for the asking price.

The town house I'm looking at is in the west side of Sukhumvit in what seems to be a good location, so only limited property available, I've been put off from the dark side of Sukhumvit for a number of reasons, albeit much cheaper prices. In any case, I think the west side of Sukhumvit will keep it's price better, well I think it should.

I wonder what is a crazy low price to offer but one they would possibly consider instead of laughing/hanging up the phone, maybe half a million under the asking price? They are asking 3 mil.

[LaoPo]

Good advice, but isn't it usual that the Thai owner 'can' hold on for the asking price.

The town house I'm looking at is in the west side of Sukhumvit in what seems to be a good location, so only limited property available, I've been put off from the dark side of Sukhumvit for a number of reasons, albeit much cheaper prices. In any case, I think the west side of Sukhumvit will keep it's price better, well I think it should.

I wonder what is a crazy low price to offer but one they would possibly consider instead of laughing/hanging up the phone, maybe half a million under the asking price? They are asking 3 mil.

Of course it depends on the owner(s). If Thai (or any other nationality) are holding on to the asking price they're either rich or have no reason to leave their house immediately, meaning they didn't buy another house (yet).

It would help if you know WHO's selling and WHY; extremely important ! Try to find out before you offer...

Like I said before it's always a matter of supply and demand. If there are many houses for sale in that street/soi/area you can offer any price; if it's a wanted area and no houses for sale except yours, it's a sellers house.....

Again: never fall in love with bricks !

LaoPo

[johnnyk]

Best advice I ever had about buying a house: "There's always another one."

Got that advice 30 years ago and it saved me from buying an overpriced house that had problems.

[TomBrown]

Are there surveyors here to check property out or are they just not worth it? I had a quick visual inspection and the property seemed to be okay, but I'm no builder/plumber/electrician.

If I were to go for the property, is it best to get a Thai bank account to transfer the money into from my UK account, then from my Thai bank account to the sellers? Does it matter which Thai bank?

The owner of the property is selling directly, I'd presume its best for me to go through a lawyer to purchase the property. Any advice on this?

Edited June 15, 2008 by TomBrown

[Scott123]

It would help if you know WHO's selling and WHY; extremely important ! Try to find out before you offer...

LaoPo

The agent does not have to tell you who is selling the property.

The seller does not have to tell you why he/she is selling the property. The seller can also totally make up a false story about the reason why they are selling.

[lannarebirth]

The only time I've seen true buyers markets were when there were both forced sales (by court decree) and higher than usual lending rates. I don't see either of those factors extant as yet. Perhaps it will happen, perhaps not.

[tamsin]

It would help if you know WHO's selling and WHY; extremely important ! Try to find out before you offer...

LaoPo

The agent does not have to tell you who is selling the property.

The seller does not have to tell you why he/she is selling the property. The seller can also totally make up a false story about the reason why they are selling.

Exactly. What's it got to do with you who owns a particular property and why they are selling, apart from the fact that you might be able to take advantage of someone else's 'distress sale' that is?

[quiksilva]

Are there surveyors here to check property out or are they just not worth it? I had a quick visual inspection and the property seemed to be okay, but I'm no builder/plumber/electrician.

If I were to go for the property, is it best to get a Thai bank account to transfer the money into from my UK account, then from my Thai bank account to the sellers? Does it matter which Thai bank?

The owner of the property is selling directly, I'd presume its best for me to go through a lawyer to purchase the property. Any advice on this?

No one does home buyers reports here that I am aware of.

What are you buying house/condo/?

Always use a lawyer to do conveyancing and due diligence unless you are fluent in Thai, or have a local on hand who is experienced in the whole process, can competently interpret title deeds and relate matters such as servitudes, easements and other liens to you in English.

[TomBrown]

It's a town house I'm looking at.

It appears that the owner needs to pay off a loan or something, but information was a bit sketchy, and already owns another property, well that's what was said.

Unfortunately the owner won't move much on price at all, hence my questioning the buyers market. So its either already an okay price for the property or she can hold out for the asking price.

[LaoPo]

It's a town house I'm looking at.

It appears that the owner needs to pay off a loan or something, but information was a bit sketchy, and already owns another property, well that's what was said.

Unfortunately the owner won't move much on price at all, hence my questioning the buyers market.

So its either already an okay price for the property or she can hold out for the asking price.

That's exactly the question, isn't it for all buyers...?

The answer is in your hands; is the property worthy of you, living there ? If you have the feeling you're OK with the price, buy it.

LaoPo

[BlackRain]

It's not a buyer market, not anymore, it was 5 years ago, but now it's overbought, the seller make the choice,

with all the Russians coming here and making 80% of the buyers in Pattaya for the last 2 years (see BangkokPost article), you are out of luck

[LaoPo]

It's not a buyer market, not anymore, it was 5 years ago, but now it's overbought, the seller make the choice,

with all the Russians coming here and making 80% of the buyers in Pattaya for the last 2 years (see BangkokPost article), you are out of luck

Really ?

In 2007 there were 280,000 Russian tourists to Thailand; that's 1,9 % of the total of more than 14,4 Million tourists.

They represent 80% of all real estate buyers ?

Really ?

Show us the facts sir, not rumours and don't believe what a newspaper write. Or are you that naive ?

"Sellers make the choice.....?"

LaoPo

[BlackRain]

Actually, more than that,

In 2007, 889,656 Russians visited Pattaya, up 84 per cent from the previous year, making them the leading market for the resort after only Thais, 1.51 million of whom checked into Pattaya hotels last year.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=127965

Ok, it was 20% last year, and they expect it to be 40% this year, but they seem to make 80% of the market in central areas, they are buying everything

This year experts believe that Russians will account for 40% of real estate purchases in Pattaya. Since Russians often don't speak English, Russian speaking staff and Russian language advertisements are essential for attracting Russian business at real estate agency's and other tourism-related businesses.

http://www.readbangkokpost.com/easybusines...ayas_real_e.php

[ray23]

It's always a buyer market if you find a motivated seller won't matter if it's foriegner or Thai money, The thing that may change is the number of motivated sellers

[LaoPo]

Actually, more than that,

In 2007, 889,656 Russians visited Pattaya, up 84 per cent from the previous year, making them the leading market for the resort after only Thais, 1.51 million of whom checked into Pattaya hotels last year.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=127965

Ok, it was 20% last year, and they expect it to be 40% this year, but they seem to make 80% of the market in central areas, they are buying everything

This year experts believe that Russians will account for 40% of real estate purchases in Pattaya. Since Russians often don't speak English, Russian speaking staff and Russian language advertisements are essential for attracting Russian business at real estate agency's and other tourism-related businesses.

http://www.readbangkokpost.com/easybusines...ayas_real_e.php

I advised you not to believe what newspapers write....."889,656 Russians visited Pattaya in 2007"

I happen to believe TAT more than the Bangkok Post.

Search there and find out yourself:

click 2007 and after that "Date from January to December" and download the page; look for Russia...

http://www2.tat.or.th/stat/web/static_download.php?Rpt=cre

If there were 889,656 Russians in Pattaya alone in 2007 than the Russians would be 'good' for 24,11% of the total of 3.689.770 Million tourists from Europe to Thailand in 2007....

You better phone the BKK Post to tell them about the nonsense they write and to correct their mistakes by leaving the first number '8' out OR the last '6'

LaoPo

[ozsamurai]

Seems the post is getting a little off the topic here. But I would like to add a question as a newbie. Can a Farang own a townhouse, I thought we were limited to Condo ownership??

[backflip]

"Can a Farang own a townhouse..."

No, not directly. However, a farang can form a Thai company, and the Thai company can buy a townhouse. If you think this might suit your needs, Sunbelt Asia can do this for you (about $1000 USD, for a secure company).

[imaneggspurt]

LaoPo is absolutly spot on with his advice, go look at them all, make a stupid low offer, ,you never know, a friend of mine offered 3.5 on one that was 5.5 and got it and was well worth it,.dosent hurt to try,.

[MacauThai]

wait for the baht to fall thats what it looks like its going to do.

[eljeque]

There is no shortage of townhouses available here on this West side of Sukhumvit.

Keep looking to find the most motivated seller for a unit which you like.

A market is made up of hundreds ofbuyers and sellers.

There are-and will be more very motivated sellers here as the world economy slows.

There is no need to grab something now.

There will always be another equally wonderful townhouse for you to purchase from an even more motivated seller.

[Heng]

It'll be more of a buyers market once they hike up the interest rates a little more... to squeeze some property out of overleveraged hands.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Heng

[Gary A]

As for myself, I have no idea why a farang would even consider buying a property through a company. Why open an expensive can of worms when you can safely buy a condo in your own name?

Now I'll hear that the company comes with the house. That may be the case, but what about the accountant and yearly tax returns? What happens if the Thai government decides to enforce the law?

[chiang mai]

wait for the baht to fall thats what it looks like its going to do.

I live in hope, but, according to an IMF report in the Tribune, UK, US, Euro and Canadian Dollar are all overvalued and many major Asian currencies are undervalued - the Singapore Dollar in particular should increase by around 20%. I think the question will be, which currency will fall faster sooner, GBP & USD or THB.

[jitagon]

As for myself, I have no idea why a farang would even consider buying a property through a company. Why open an expensive can of worms when you can safely buy a condo in your own name?

Now I'll hear that the company comes with the house. That may be the case, but what about the accountant and yearly tax returns? What happens if the Thai government decides to enforce the law?

oooh god, here we go again BECAUSE if you have a family, several assorted pets and don't want to have to listen to your neighbour arguing with his latest tee luk or hawking up in the bathroom each morning, AND are into gardening, you don't want to live in a bloody 'flat', whatever anyone calls it here.

[gmac]

As for myself, I have no idea why a farang would even consider buying a property through a company. Why open an expensive can of worms when you can safely buy a condo in your own name?

Now I'll hear that the company comes with the house. That may be the case, but what about the accountant and yearly tax returns? What happens if the Thai government decides to enforce the law?

oooh god, here we go again BECAUSE if you have a family, several assorted pets and don't want to have to listen to your neighbour arguing with his latest tee luk or hawking up in the bathroom each morning, AND are into gardening, you don't want to live in a bloody 'flat', whatever anyone calls it here.

I think the point being made here was more about the buying 'through a company' than the buying of a condo as opposed to a house. The company route for house buying has been shown to be 'unsafe' thus the only way for a farang to buy in his own name is to buy a Condo. The extended family and pets will always be happier in a house but the only way to buy this 'safely' is in the Thai wife's name with a 30 year lease (or not) and the hope of a happily ever after! From another thread I think Gary A has his own Condo which he has rented out and now lives upcountry in a house with his own hopefully happy ever after!

To the OP, if you look at the adverts from the real estate agents from month to month you will see that very little 2nd hand property is moving so from that point of view it is a buyers market. What you need to do as already mentioned is to find yourself a genuine seller who needs to sell and agree a figure probably some way below the current asking price.

Edited July 28, 2008 by gmac