Social Isolation

[PeaceBlondie]

Poor, but actually much happier.

+1

Miserable. Offer a free ticket to the West and a job and the whole country would empty.

I hope you wrote that in jest, JSixpack. For many natives, in Thailand and in Mexico, leaving home would be such a tragedy that it would literally be their last resort. Family is often much more important than a new job. Mexicans flee to America only after they cannot make a living at home. I doubt that 5% of all 63 million Thais wish to leave the country forever, and few of those who migrate to Thai cities enjoy being there. It is a sad day when a native has to choose between his native community and a city full of strangers.

[Travel2003]

I believe this is a western thing that is spreading around the world.

I remember how noticeable it was when I came here the first time (or other parts of the world), that strangers had absolutely no problem to start a conversation.

2 perfect strangers next to each other on the bus or train easily started to chat about themself and their family, where they were from, going to, etc.

My parents could do this as well when they were younger. Seems to me the "modern western world" lost that.

These days, neighbours in a building can stand in an elevator, and they all stare at the number (which floor), like they are hypnotized. This so they do not have to engage in any conversation. Maybe a little nod, when one of them leaves the elevator.

I read somewhere, a city is a place where many people are lonely together.

[uptou]

I always seem to find the 4 quotes below from Arthur Schopenhauer to be comforting in a strange sort of way;

'There is in the world only the choice between loneliness and vulgarity.''

"The less a man is forced to come into contact with others, the better off he is"

"Whoever attaches a lot of value to the opinions of others pays them too much honor.'

'We will gradually become indifferent to what goes on in the minds of other people when we acquire an adequate knowledge of the superficial and futile nature of their thoughts, of the narrowness of their views, of the paltriness of their sentiments, of the perversity of their opinions, and of the number of their errors'? We shall then see that whoever attaches a lot of value to the opinions of others pays them too much honour.' I really like that one.

Heres more from the man;

"National character is only another name for the particular form which the littleness, perversity and baseness of mankind take in every country. Every nation mocks at other nations, and all are right."

"It is only a man's own fundamental thoughts that have truth and life in them. For it is these that he really and completely understands. To read the thoughts of others is like taking the remains of someone else's meal, like putting on the discarded clothes of a stranger."

"Rascals are always sociable, more's the pity! and the chief sign that a man has any nobility in his character is the little pleasure he takes in others' company."

“A man can be himself only so long as he is alone.”

“To live alone is the fate of all great souls.”

[distortedlink]

Over the years the community sprit of the English has declined in England. These days one is more likely to get mugged by ones neighbour rather than being greeted with a cup of tea and a chat.

Many that reside in Thailand have brought this attitude over with them. These days after having experienced semi hostile responses from fellow Englishmen whom I have politely said good morning or hello to in Chiang Mai, I am inclined to look the other way if finding myself in the same environment as other Farangs.

I love living in Thailand with all Thais as neighbours and hopefully wont ever get other holier than thou with attitude English people living near me.

[JSixpack]

Poor, but actually much happier.

+1

Miserable. Offer a free ticket to the West and a job and the whole country would empty.

I hope you wrote that in jest, JSixpack. For many natives, in Thailand and in Mexico, leaving home would be such a tragedy that it would literally be their last resort. Family is often much more important than a new job. Mexicans flee to America only after they cannot make a living at home. I doubt that 5% of all 63 million Thais wish to leave the country forever, and few of those who migrate to Thai cities enjoy being there. It is a sad day when a native has to choose between his native community and a city full of strangers.

If they all had a ticket, then the families would go along too. They would plan to return. Yet many who migrate to the West don't wish to return either. They attain a new perspective on their societies and governments.

I might also mention the common observation in threads about Thai wives in the West that when Thais migrate to the USA, they often start avoiding other Thais.

Edited June 15, 2008 by JSixpack

[tamsin]

With regards to Sociology, I must confess, I am rather ignorant. But as I get older I can't but help notice that selfishness and greed must be contributing factors to the dysfunction of the Society of which I am apart - I live in the UK.

So is it a " Every man out for himself, ****** everbody else" attitude that contributes to Social Isolation, here, in the West? Of course everybody needs to make a living and provide Shelter, Food etc for themselves and in many cases a family too, so prehaps it's just the busyness and lack of time to think about others?

I am 33. When I was 26 I met, ( In Thailand), married, and brought a Thai girl back to the UK, where we now live, still together, 6 years later. One of the first things my wife commented on about life in the West, was the lack of community and the feeling of being alone, which is natural to somebody coming to a strange new Country from a considerably different Culture, in her case Thailand.

But she is still baffled that people can live, side by side in a residential street, all their lives and not even know their neighbours.

When we return to Thailand for our annual holiday and to see the family in Issan, and are in the village enviornment, with all the goings on, It strikes me how isolated people are in the UK, usually chronically so.

Anybody with a B.A in Sociology?

Yes, that's one of the things I really miss about being in England Oh, and as for the selfish and greed thing, I take it your wife doesn't come from Phuket then?

[telaksslave]

With regards to Sociology, I must confess, I am rather ignorant. But as I get older I can't but help notice that selfishness and greed must be contributing factors to the dysfunction of the Society of which I am apart - I live in the UK.

So is it a " Every man out for himself, ****** everbody else" attitude that contributes to Social Isolation, here, in the West? Of course everybody needs to make a living and provide Shelter, Food etc for themselves and in many cases a family too, so prehaps it's just the busyness and lack of time to think about others?

I am 33. When I was 26 I met, ( In Thailand), married, and brought a Thai girl back to the UK, where we now live, still together, 6 years later. One of the first things my wife commented on about life in the West, was the lack of community and the feeling of being alone, which is natural to somebody coming to a strange new Country from a considerably different Culture, in her case Thailand.

But she is still baffled that people can live, side by side in a residential street, all their lives and not even know their neighbours.

When we return to Thailand for our annual holiday and to see the family in Issan, and are in the village enviornment, with all the goings on, It strikes me how isolated people are in the UK, usually chronically so.

Anybody with a B.A in Sociology?

any big city in the world can be a lonely place, small comunitys are usually completly different, they like to talk and hear everybodys problems then gossip and slightly change the story thats part of a small comunitys life, but one thing that does stand out to me, regarding familys, is a thai lady can leave her children to work a bar or whatever trade and forget them easily that would rarely happens in europe, its a strange thing, they just dont seem as close to there children as we are or is this just my imagination ?? please tell me

[Jeddah Jo]

My take on this is just that Thais are much more friendly than the rather cool English. You can strike up a conversation with almost any Thai (in Thai) and by and large they will always talk politely and show interest in what you are saying and are happy to ask and answer very personal information. Far more than the rather reserved English where you need to know someone 20 years before you can ask how much they earn.

Although I guess this might make some people uncomfortable, it has come natural to me now and feels much more 'normal' than the stilted way British people talk with one another. Like people have suggested on this thread, a lot of UK people seem to have lost all social skills and are basically 'pricks' who you wouldn't really want to talk to anyway. I have found the percentage of Thais I would not want to talk to to be very low. As I said they are almost always polite, interested in you as a person and always show consideration.

As a rider I would say some of the people who work in the naughty night life industry can be very rude and behave rather badly so I usually do not hold out high hopes for a pleasant conversation if I happen to find myself in a bar. Although even in this environment probably the majority of Thais still show their natural positive character traits.

JJ

[GuestHouse]

My take on this is just that Thais are much more friendly than the rather cool English. You can strike up a conversation with almost any Thai (in Thai) and by and large they will always talk politely and show interest in what you are saying and are happy to ask and answer very personal information. Far more than the rather reserved English where you need to know someone 20 years before you can ask how much they earn.

Yes you can strike up a conversation with almost any Thai and get a possitive(ish) response, something you would not DO in the UK (ie I'm betting you do not go around speaking to perfect stangers back home and if you did you would not get a response).

Why is this?

Because as a foreigner in Thailand you do act within the social rules nor can you be judged by Thais within the social rules they know.

Back home you act and are judged within the social rules limmiting your social interactions to those that are 'expected/usual/normal/the norm'.

Like wise Thais in Thailand do not go around engaging pefect stangers (other Thais) in conversation - they too act within the social rules of their society.

This also explains why when in Thailand and engaging another person from your home country in converstation they will not respond as openly as do Thais - THEY and YOU are carrying social behaviours and sending/receiving a host of social signals that you both respond to.

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Mind I'm not sure that its always a good thing that Thais are so 'friendly' - I've never had near strangers, cassual aquaintences or neighbours ask me for a loan back home - On more than one occassion Thais I barely know have asked for loans - Something I doubt they ask of other Thais they barely know.