If Chiang Mai Is Becoming Too Busy, Noisy, Dusty ..

[ricardofel]

It's a loaded question with many considerations...what can you afford? Are you planning to rent or buy? Do you want land, neighbors? Peace and quiet? We bought a big house and 1 1/2 rai of land in Lanna Lagoon, Saraphi and we love it. Very quiet, lots of birds in the am and throughout the day. 15 minutes to the mall, 20 minutes to the Sunday walking market. 15 minute drive to Carrefour on the superhighway or Tesco. 12 minutes to Baan Tawai or Hang Dong. Hope this helps.

[papajohn]

I agree that many tourists are scared off by Chiang Mai's unwarranted reputation for being badly polluted, and, in fact, it has badly hurt my business.

IMHO, "High Season" has shrunk from 6 months to about 3 out of 12 months because of this reputation, which makes it difficult to pay the high rents the rest of the year in the downtown area.

There are a few bad days during March and February when the hills around Chiang Mai are being burned, but not enough for tourists in normal health to avoid the place completely. We did have one particularly bad year, but that seems to be a fluke caused by unusual weather.

However, one post with a witty line is not going to make difference one way or the other, so I think that we can give anonymouse a break, but I do applaud your efforts to attract more tourists to Chiang Mai.

UG, I am sorry to hear that your business has been falling off seriously apparently due to the decline in tourism. Want to know why? You should read the newly published English translation of Sustainable Cities in Chiang Mai: A Case of a City in a Valley. (Ought to be easy for you to get a copy!) The translation is not very good, but the major points are clear. You'll see many reasons why your business is falling off.

One of the major reasons is air pollution, a particular concern of yours. The research shows that this has been going on for quite some time now. It is sad to write about air pollution the day after one of the wonderfully clear days we have experienced this June. It was a brilliant day. Check the PCD readings and you'll see. The problem is that during too much of the year (generally from February – early April during the dry season) air pollution is indeed very high. This is a regular seasonal problem. The year --- 2007 --- was particularly bad, it is true, but not a "fluke." The problem is a serious problem each year.

Regarding air pollution, you should read pp 339 –358 of the book. There are numerous sources of information footnoted. They include research references on cancer as well as other public health problems, such as the high incidence of respiratory disease. And then an various obvious tourist problem is mentioned: You can barely make out, sometimes can't even see the natural beauty of Northern Thailand due to the air pollution, Doi Suthep being everyone's favorite natural landmark. Natural beauty is one of the two major marketing themes of the area! Table 8.8, one of a few graphs offered in the book, high and low PM10 (particles in smoke) levels every month, 1998 – 2006.

The second major marketing theme for Chiang Mai is the cultural heritage of the city. That seems to be increasingly "polluted" as well. The Chiang Mai Night Safari is a classic example of of "Disneyland" development that has encroached on the landscape and has been a colossal economic failure except for those who had a share in building it. "Strip development" along area routes has fragmented agricultural land, despoiled the natural landscape and increased transportation problems while the lack of effective development (including restoration) of the Old City has diminished the city's attractiveness as a cultural center. Take a walk around. See much traditional Lanna architecture? I do indeed think there are more book stores now in Chiang Mai than there are traditional Lanna houses!

Another person who posts on this thread praises Chiang Mai citizens and has expressed outrage at others "bad mouthing" the city. That person should know that the author of the book is a senior researcher at the Institute of Social Research and a fourth generation citizen of Chiang Mai who has been greatly distressed to see the city becoming less and less sustainable. She, among other responsible long-time residents of Chiang Mai, has also been very active in trying to improve public participation in solving the problems.

If you read the book, you'll see some reasons why these caring people have not been as successful as one might wish. One of the reasons is very clear: there are too many people in businesses large and small more interested in making a buck, as they say in America, without enough concern for the consequences of their actions which ultimately can lead to less profit and destroy the habitability of the place. There is an unfortunate tendency among too many people to ignore, play down, or increase the problems rather than to join in solving them or supporting people who work for a sustainable Chiang Mai.

Mapguy, you are right about yesterday being brilliant. What a grand morning it was to see. Wat Doi Suthep looked like a big gold nugget

in the morning sun. Glad to see the local folks are keeping track of what is happening to this lovely little city. I first came to Thailand 15 years ago and stayed in Bangkok for 3 days. It was horrible to me.

Nothing bad happen but the rush of the city I could not handle.

As Thailand so often does now, it can work its magic on you, if you let it. I was on my way to the airport to return to Hawaii and cut my vacation short by 2 weeks, I met a guy at a cafe, he was Thai with good English. He just sat down at my table and started talking with me, probably a student wanting to practise his English Long story short, I told him I was heading home and did not enjoy Thailand.

He then said, Bangkok is not Thailand! Since you are going to the airport take a flight to a city called Chiang Mai, that is the real Thailand. In the taxi to Don Muang something in me said you can always go back, why not go forward, so I got a tix to CM. He saved me in many ways. I have come back every 2 years and now it is home to me and I will always be grateful to this guy.

I have time, ideas, and energy to help. Just show me the way

[anonymouse]

I've returned to this thread a little late but if Papa John finds my little bit of slang so offensive I'd suggest he takes some time out in the countryside to sooth his nerves

I'll stick to cockney rhyming slang in my future threads - so you won't have a Scooby you merchant banker.

Edited June 25, 2008 by anonymouse

[papajohn]

And another American basher heard from, I suggest you all should

get together and start a thread, You could call it " Who hates the Yanks and why" Cheers and good on ya mate.

[Jefferson]

Err, he bashed you, and for good reason.

I see nothing in there against septics in general.

[papajohn]

"O" Jefferson you sly dog, Is septic another Brit slang word for yanks, because there is no definition in the American Heritage dictionary that I could find. Your friend Annoymouse admits in his bash that he was calling CMcity the big smoke so that clears that up, pun intended. Chiang Mai Cityslicker has to be the best oxymoron I've heard since " Brittish Intelligence" Sawadee Kup

[Ulysses G.]

Err, he bashed you, and for good reason.

I see nothing in there against septics in general.

I can verify that anonymouse is usually quite polite to Americans. Perhaps he has something against "bankers"?

[Priceless]

"O" Jefferson you sly dog, Is septic another Brit slang word for yanks, because there is no definition in the American Heritage dictionary that I could find. Your friend Annoymouse admits in his bash that he was calling CMcity the big smoke so that clears that up, pun intended. Chiang Mai Cityslicker has to be the best oxymoron I've heard since " Brittish Intelligence" Sawadee Kup

Maybe the American Heritage dictionary is not the best place to look for British colloquialisms When I e.g. look up "smoke" in my Oxford Dictionary of English, I find the following:

smoke noun

1 (mass noun) a visible suspension of carbon or[...]

2 an act of smoking tobacco[...]

3 (the Smoke) Brit. dated a big city, especially London[...]

Pretty clear, isn't it

/ Priceless

Edited June 25, 2008 by Priceless

[tipsy]

Be funny to open a dictionary to find: Septic Tank = Yank

[Mapguy]

"O" Jefferson you sly dog, Is septic another Brit slang word for yanks, because there is no definition in the American Heritage dictionary that I could find. Your friend Annoymouse admits in his bash that he was calling CMcity the big smoke so that clears that up, pun intended. Chiang Mai Cityslicker has to be the best oxymoron I've heard since " Brittish Intelligence" Sawadee Kup

Maybe the American Heritage dictionary is not the best place to look for British colloquialisms When I e.g. look up "smoke" in my Oxford Dictionary of English, I find the following:

smoke noun

1 (mass noun) a visible suspension of carbon or[...]

2 an act of smoking tobacco[...]

3 (the Smoke) Brit. dated a big city, especially London[...]

Pretty clear, isn't it

/ Priceless

Yes, indeed. You'll find that colloquial meaning. You don't need an OED. Another word that has entered the English language in the past few decades is "bozo." "Bozo" was the name of a very famous clown on American television. I am reminded of the term by the last several posts by "bozos" who can't keep bar humor at the bar and stay on topic. Bozo was a mute, but was very noisy honking a horn he kept at his waist; that is, he never really had anything to say, he just liked to make noise.

[weary]

I bet Bozo was loved by one and all though. We all need to honk our horn now and then.

[Ulysses G.]

Better a little clowning around with Bozo than being bored to tears by Sleepy the Dwarf!

[swain]

I have to say this year has been quite good... minimal burning and rain coming just when it was needed. The sky is clear and I have moved into my new house. My mortgage is less than what i would pay for rent. My village is in Hang Dong ... on a very quiet dead end road. My daughter is healthy and walking and talking (1 year old) My wife is the number one student at her university. (Seriously number 1 and being awarded honors later today.) I just had a wonderful breakfast looking at the moutains in the distance. I have had almost no problems with the police, the food, illness, or with the Thai family. My wife is christian and educated so no sinsot. What can I tell you ... * life is bliss ... knock teak wood!

I could not afford to have this life in the USA.

* Do your homework before you come here as I did.

[miltonbentley]

I have to say this year has been quite good... minimal burning and rain coming just when it was needed. The sky is clear and I have moved into my new house. My mortgage is less than what i would pay for rent. My village is in Hang Dong ... on a very quiet dead end road. My daughter is healthy and walking and talking (1 year old) My wife is the number one student at her university. (Seriously number 1 and being awarded honors later today.) I just had a wonderful breakfast looking at the moutains in the distance. I have had almost no problems with the police, the food, illness, or with the Thai family. My wife is christian and educated so no sinsot. What can I tell you ... * life is bliss ... knock teak wood!

I could not afford to have this life in the USA.

* Do your homework before you come here as I did.

Nice to hear of how contented someone is to counterbalance the excessive whinging.

Good luck to you Swain.

[PeaceBlondie]

I thought Clarabell the Clown was mute, but I guess most clowns were (Clarabell later became Captain Kangaroo, I think)....

I have been running the wheels off my new bike, and the ring roads are marvelous. The new underpasses look like a master's thesis in highway design. The traffic in town ain't bad, neither. Mexican food, Triumph dealership, double mocha cappuccino lattes - what more could you ask for?

[Mapguy]

I thought Clarabell the Clown was mute, but I guess most clowns were (Clarabell later became Captain Kangaroo, I think)....

I have been running the wheels off my new bike, and the ring roads are marvelous. The new underpasses look like a master's thesis in highway design. The traffic in town ain't bad, neither. Mexican food, Triumph dealership, double mocha cappuccino lattes - what more could you ask for?

I stand corrected on a least two counts. Yes, it was Clarabell to whom I referred, not Bozo, another clown. Mute Clarabell had a horn at his belt. And the etymology of "bozo" is a lot more interesting than I thought, according to the Wikipaedia. Sharpen up your trivia skills thusly:

Bozo the Clown (also known as Bozo) is the name of a clown whose widespread franchising in early television made him the best-known clown character in the United States. Although the generic name Bozo is reckoned "of uncertain origin" by the Random House Unabridged Dictionary^[1] and given an earliest use of c. 1915–20, when it was a common term referring to hobo or tramp clowns, the equation of "Bozo" and "dunce" may be credited to Anselm of Canterbury, who laid out many of his treatises in the familiar form of a dialogue, between A, who was Anselm, and B, who was Boso, who never got it right. Bozo has been named in several US presidential elections as a write-in candidate when people felt they were choosing between the lesser of two evils. The name had previously been carried by numerous Carolingian aristocrats (see Boso of Provence).^[2]

[bunta71]

I have to say this year has been quite good... minimal burning and rain coming just when it was needed. The sky is clear and I have moved into my new house. My mortgage is less than what i would pay for rent. My village is in Hang Dong ... on a very quiet dead end road. My daughter is healthy and walking and talking (1 year old) My wife is the number one student at her university. (Seriously number 1 and being awarded honors later today.) I just had a wonderful breakfast looking at the moutains in the distance. I have had almost no problems with the police, the food, illness, or with the Thai family. My wife is christian and educated so no sinsot. What can I tell you ... * life is bliss ... knock teak wood!

I could not afford to have this life in the USA.

* Do your homework before you come here as I did.

Nice to hear of how contented someone is to counterbalance the excessive whinging.

Good luck to you Swain.

Not attempting to arouse any more of the all too much American bashing that is so common on this forum ( Americans are always the first to help worldwide when people are hurting, yet the first to be shit upon from others, but that is for another thread someday...), but as long as there is discussion of the differences between American and "proper English" a question arises. I have noticed the word "whinging" reffered to time and time again and am curious if that is the "proper" English way of spelling the word..."whining" as in "to whine" or not. Again just curious

[Boksida]

Not attempting to arouse any more of the all too much American bashing that is so common on this forum ( Americans are always the first to help worldwide when people are hurting, yet the first to be shit upon from others, but that is for another thread someday...), but as long as there is discussion of the differences between American and "proper English" a question arises. I have noticed the word "whinging" reffered to time and time again and am curious if that is the "proper" English way of spelling the word..."whining" as in "to whine" or not. Again just curious

Have a butcher's at this

[bunta71]

Not attempting to arouse any more of the all too much American bashing that is so common on this forum ( Americans are always the first to help worldwide when people are hurting, yet the first to be shit upon from others, but that is for another thread someday...), but as long as there is discussion of the differences between American and "proper English" a question arises. I have noticed the word "whinging" reffered to time and time again and am curious if that is the "proper" English way of spelling the word..."whining" as in "to whine" or not. Again just curious

Have a butcher's at this

Answered my question promptly and with credibility. Appreciate it

[StevieH]

Have a butcher's at this

hehe. that's all very well but what would a bunch of wifebeating, aborigine-opressing convicts know about anything?

[Boksida]

Have a butcher's at this

hehe. that's all very well but what would a bunch of wifebeating, aborigine-opressing convicts know about anything?

Compliments will get you nowhere.

[StevieH]

Compliments will get you nowhere.

[swain]

Its amazing... you guys say so much about nothing... these forums turn into unfunny versions of Monty Python episodes ...

[bunta71]

Its amazing... you guys say so much about nothing... these forums turn into unfunny versions of Monty Python episodes ...

It's only a flesh wound

[anonymouse]

And another American basher heard from, I suggest you all should

get together and start a thread, You could call it " Who hates the Yanks and why" Cheers and good on ya mate.

Hello papajohn you old fruitcake,

As another poster pointed out this post has become a lot of waffle about nothing but as I find you such an amusing chap I've decided to honour you with a reply.

I made no mention of Yanks let alone hating them in my last post. In all honesty I didn't even realise you were an American, from your previous postings I assumed English was your second language.

I have friends from a myriad of nations in Chiang Mai, some of them even septics . Race isn't the issue it's the dimwits I can't be dealing with.

[gpdjohn]

Its amazing... you guys say so much about nothing... these forums turn into unfunny versions of Monty Python episodes ...

Yeah, so?

Keep reading over and over and it will get somewhat funny after awhile. Almost just like Monty Python reruns, which are still on the air.

Some are good, most terrible and then there's always just one or two that you'll just love.

[papajohn]

Its amazing... you guys say so much about nothing... these forums turn into unfunny versions of Monty Python episodes ...

Yeah, so?

Keep reading over and over and it will get somewhat funny after awhile. Almost just like Monty Python reruns, which are still on the air.

Some are good, most terrible and then there's always just one or two that you'll just love.

I agree, this thread should be called Basil comes to Chiange Mai

[papajohn]

Be funny to open a dictionary to find: Septic Tank = Yank

Now we are feeling the love.

[papajohn]

And another American basher heard from, I suggest you all should

get together and start a thread, You could call it " Who hates the Yanks and why" Cheers and good on ya mate.

Hello papajohn you old fruitcake,

As another poster pointed out this post has become a lot of waffle about nothing but as I find you such an amusing chap I've decided to honour you with a reply.

I made no mention of Yanks let alone hating them in my last post. In all honesty I didn't even realise you were an American, from your previous postings I assumed English was your second language.

I have friends from a myriad of nations in Chiang Mai, some of them even septics . Race isn't the issue it's the dimwits I can't be dealing with.

Hello you old brit fart, is Hawaii not in the US ? Please pay attention before you post. It just shows your lack of Brittish intelligence, talk about dimwits, you cannot even read! It was your post that started this BS. You say " race isn't the issue" "o" Americans are considerd a different race? Thats OK, How about the Irish that you Brits have enslaved for 700 years? Are they considerd a different race too ? Get off your high horse, you racist SOB. The Americans were the first to kick your Brit ass out of our country.

Then India, Singapore, Hong Kong, and many others. I know you folks lose big face when the Germans were about to come to your prescious little country and you had to call on America to save your Brit butt.

Thats the past, I know, but give credit to the American fighting men who died to save your little Empire from complete destruction. Its interesting to us Americans how you Brits consider us as the bad guys now. Felix Unger sends his regards !

[gpdjohn]

O come on now you two..

We are from the same cut of cloth..

2 friends, different parts 'o thee ocean.

You know that when the US needs help, the UK is there...no questions asked..

Same same on this side as we are all brothers and sisters.

I will always defend my "family" as one, no mater what, no matter what difference.

UK is there for me and I commit the same to them.

I love ya man..

I'm serious.

never a country the same as mine, as the UK and the US. We are the same.

Flame me, but it's true.