A Farewell To Pattaya: More People To Leave?

[poshthai]

so are you in khon kaen

[innovator]

No. In fact, my actual location is a secret....(you know, many reasons to go in hiding), none of them involve any illegal activities.

You see, there was this......yada yada....hmmmmmmmm

Let's just say that my overall opinion is that Pattaya has become quite dangerous for those people who like walking the streets. Most of the Pro Pattaya People Party folks on tv who reject any and all negative comments about crime and danger in Pattaya are those in denial, or work in real estate sales or bought into this mess and cannot sell and get the hel_l out. (Or, those folks that sit in the house/condo all day ordering food from one of those fancy new delivery services and never go outside). Of course those people lead a sheltered and biased life in Pattaya. But, the risks of walking around are too high if compared to the higher quality of life and much lower risks of moving out. Plus, I am not one of those people that own a house in POO POO Paradise.

I don't need a walking stick, baseball bat, or other self defense weapon outside of Pattaya. Amazing to admit that I like Pattaya, but am now admitting that it is too dangerous to walk around on a daily basis. But, I am not trying to tell people to leave. In fact, I am sure many more folks will head down there, especially during the high season. It can be quite fun and exciting when all of the tourists are out and about and then, much harder to become a target with hordes of people in the area. But, as mentioned before, the streets are absolutely empty of tourists now and full of cons/criminals, and others bent on doing some damage.

[poshthai]

A little bit overboard but i do know what you mean,it does seem more of a problem than 5 years ago.Having said that i go out at least twice a week and get a little drunk but always make certain i have my wits about me.Never go to walking st but central-north pattaya and have never had a problem in those 5 years.I am far from a small guy but i walk away now and keep my nose clean.A few weeks ago my friend had a problem with a katoy,who was trying to touch him,quite rightly he warned him and sure enough the katoy touched him again so he sparked him out weith one punch.it cost him 2,000 baht and i am sure thats what the katoy wanted.i would have walked away now albeit make certain i told the mamasan or woner why i was going.

This place is far safer than my many years drinking in stoke on trent and much safer than going to an away match with stoke,so try to put things into perspective.

[innovator]

Sure, I really never had a problem either. But, I had some very close calls. Sure, there are many cities around the globe that share the title of violent places to live. But, it seems to me that one can find all of the wonderful things that Pattaya offers in other parts of Thailand, with reduced risks of crime. Of course, it all depends on your behavior. But, for a normal person, keeping wits and all intact, my insticts are telling me that Pattaya is becoming more dangerous. I am not really afraid, but rather, I am choosing to have a different experience, a more relaxed experience now.

I really enjoy reading these ThaiV posts about Pattaya and will monitor them from afar. I can still get my enjoyment from these posts, without having to be one of the folks on the front lines. Give it time and I am sure that I will be back.

[poshthai]

good educated post innovator,nice to read a little bit of slagging pattaya without the emotion.you can pm me if you want to share this heaven with me and i promise i wont tell anybody(well just my 50 mates and a few ladies lol.

[britmaveric]

Well bit overboard comments - Patters is fine place, sure it isnt perfect, but I don't see the hel_l you describe. Pretty much offers lot for a very small price.

[kedawi]

I left Pattaya a few days ago. I was in Pattaya for the past four years.

In the past 48 hours, my health has improved. I feel very relaxed. No Indian/UK/or other nationality approaching me or running me down on a motorbike. No motorbike taxi drivers clapping and glaring at me. No baht bus drivers honking at me. No disco trucks with speakers blarring at 4am.

No garbage on the street. Nobody attempting to play road frogger with me. No stress about con artists, touts, or criminals staring at me and just waiting for that one mistake to capitalize. No need to lock every item to my body when walking around the town for dinner. (Simple safety is enough).

No attempts to snatch my gold chain from my neck. No condoms or poo poo in any public area. No broken glass shards on the streets, waiting to be used as weapons. No loose stones or bricks on the sidewalks waiting to be used as weapons. No sirens from police or ambulance vehicles at all. No noise pollution whatsoever. (No, I am not living in a field in the sticks, I am living in a normal Thai city, not far from Pattaya). No stories on the local news about farangs jumping out of condos. No local, daily murders to view on the news. No Sword kiilings, then burn the dead farang's house down here either. This list could go on and on and on....

But, I imagine that once a person steps out of that hellhole, their health and life will improve. Pattaya for me will be a place for a very, very short visit on a rare occasion. To top it all off, the cherry on top of the sundae, the local girls here are far more lovely, younger, and more beautiful than the rags running around Pattaya.

Im sorry but I can't see that Pattaya is any worse than many other places and your drscriptions say more about you than the town.....but it is a good example of why the "old-school" expats are leaving.

[innovator]

I am not old, nor I am 'Old School'. I am simply very observant of my environment. I have been all over the world, like many folks on TV and in my opinion, Pattaya takes the cake for worst places to live, after factoring in all of the above mentioned environmental and people factors.

Yes, Pattaya has a lot to offer, but it continues to get worse and worse by the day. If the locals decided to make and implement real change, then it could be fabulous. But, instead, they simply watch it spiral down the toilet.

There is an expression from the movie Gladiator that I would like to quote: "Dirt cleans off a lot easier than blood". Anyone can clean up a dirty city, but it must be maintained over time, not a once a month sweep. Blood, well that is much harder to clean up.

[thaibeachlovers]

I left Pattaya a few days ago. I was in Pattaya for the past four years.

In the past 48 hours, my health has improved. I feel very relaxed. No Indian/UK/or other nationality approaching me or running me down on a motorbike. No motorbike taxi drivers clapping and glaring at me. No baht bus drivers honking at me. No disco trucks with speakers blarring at 4am.

No garbage on the street. Nobody attempting to play road frogger with me. No stress about con artists, touts, or criminals staring at me and just waiting for that one mistake to capitalize. No need to lock every item to my body when walking around the town for dinner. (Simple safety is enough).

No attempts to snatch my gold chain from my neck. No condoms or poo poo in any public area. No broken glass shards on the streets, waiting to be used as weapons. No loose stones or bricks on the sidewalks waiting to be used as weapons. No sirens from police or ambulance vehicles at all. No noise pollution whatsoever. (No, I am not living in a field in the sticks, I am living in a normal Thai city, not far from Pattaya). No stories on the local news about farangs jumping out of condos. No local, daily murders to view on the news. No Sword kiilings, then burn the dead farang's house down here either. This list could go on and on and on....

But, I imagine that once a person steps out of that hellhole, their health and life will improve. Pattaya for me will be a place for a very, very short visit on a rare occasion. To top it all off, the cherry on top of the sundae, the local girls here are far more lovely, younger, and more beautiful than the rags running around Pattaya.

Well, I guess we all have our own stories, but I can't agree that your examples make Pattaya a no go area.

I presently live in London, and feel more unsafe here than I ever felt in Pattaya ( I walk around Pattaya at all hours, but using common sense as to not going in risky areas, and never had a problem ).

London is just as filthy as Pattaya, garbage everywhere.

Drunken clubbers peeing everywhere late at night.

Always on the lookout for muggers and pickpockets.

Feral youths looking for trouble, and knifing people at random.

Police and ambulance sirens most nights.

Enormous amount of noise pollution.

People being burned to death in arson attacks.

The list could go on and on.

So you feel safer now, but that's probably 'cause it's a nice quiet boring town. Some of us CHOOSE Pattaya for the exciting lifestyle, but no one is forcing anyone to stay if they want to leave.

Incidentally, why would you wear a gold chain out and about? There have been warnings NOT to wear anything expensive out and about for many many years. Just common sense!

[thaibeachlovers]

To top it all off, the cherry on top of the sundae, the local girls here are far more lovely, younger, and more beautiful than the rags running around Pattaya.

Sure they are. But are they "available", like in Pattaya? Not interested in "look but don't touch". Who'd fly all the way to Thailand just to look!

[innovator]

First, I don't wear or own a gold chain. I used that as an example because I could wear a gold chain in the new city without any problems.

Second, the ladies are all available here, but they don't work for short time/ long time fees. Here, you simply take a walk around and look for a cutie...it takes a few days to spot the good one, and then, you can ask her for dinner or ice cream. A simple date. Don't expect to hit the hay within the same day, but if you can wait a few days, not weeks, a few days, then you can have a lovely girl. The long term payoff is much greater too because you found one in a normal area and you will not be paying on a daily or monthly basis for her time.

It helps to take a shower, wash your clothes, brush your teeth and smile. If you can do those things, then you can find a very sexy, hot, and lovely young girl. No tattoos, no smoking or drinking, no boyfriends hiding behind the apartment or on a motorbike. etc......

If you start the relationship off by paying for the girl, then you have set the tone for the balance of the relationship.

However, if you start out dating for a few days, you will gain a relationship that is not based on money. (you will pay for dinner, clothes, movies in the long run, but you will not be paying a monthly salary or giving money for buffalo/thai man/mamma/pappa/car/house/land/gold/phone/motorbike/ and other types of nonsense.

[poshthai]

Sounds like you have been smitten and are running away from a thai lady.If not you are looking at pattaya very strangely,as you are telling everybody that you cant get a gf here?????,unless you give them a monthly salary.very weird to me.

[LennyW]

I left Pattaya a few days ago. I was in Pattaya for the past four years.

In the past 48 hours, my health has improved. I feel very relaxed. No Indian/UK/or other nationality approaching me or running me down on a motorbike. No motorbike taxi drivers clapping and glaring at me. No baht bus drivers honking at me. No disco trucks with speakers blarring at 4am.

No garbage on the street. Nobody attempting to play road frogger with me. No stress about con artists, touts, or criminals staring at me and just waiting for that one mistake to capitalize. No need to lock every item to my body when walking around the town for dinner. (Simple safety is enough).

No attempts to snatch my gold chain from my neck. No condoms or poo poo in any public area. No broken glass shards on the streets, waiting to be used as weapons. No loose stones or bricks on the sidewalks waiting to be used as weapons. No sirens from police or ambulance vehicles at all. No noise pollution whatsoever. (No, I am not living in a field in the sticks, I am living in a normal Thai city, not far from Pattaya). No stories on the local news about farangs jumping out of condos. No local, daily murders to view on the news. No Sword kiilings, then burn the dead farang's house down here either. This list could go on and on and on....

But, I imagine that once a person steps out of that hellhole, their health and life will improve. Pattaya for me will be a place for a very, very short visit on a rare occasion. To top it all off, the cherry on top of the sundae, the local girls here are far more lovely, younger, and more beautiful than the rags running around Pattaya.

Well, I guess we all have our own stories, but I can't agree that your examples make Pattaya a no go area.

I presently live in London, and feel more unsafe here than I ever felt in Pattaya ( I walk around Pattaya at all hours, but using common sense as to not going in risky areas, and never had a problem ).

London is just as filthy as Pattaya, garbage everywhere.

Drunken clubbers peeing everywhere late at night.

Always on the lookout for muggers and pickpockets.

Feral youths looking for trouble, and knifing people at random.

Police and ambulance sirens most nights.

Enormous amount of noise pollution.

People being burned to death in arson attacks.

The list could go on and on.

So you feel safer now, but that's probably 'cause it's a nice quiet boring town. Some of us CHOOSE Pattaya for the exciting lifestyle, but no one is forcing anyone to stay if they want to leave.

Incidentally, why would you wear a gold chain out and about? There have been warnings NOT to wear anything expensive out and about for many many years. Just common sense!

You have just successfully described any major city in the UK! I keep in touch with the news from Aberdeen (my home city) and quite frankly the crime that goes on there on a daily basis makes Pattaya look quite saintly!!

People should take a long hard look at their respective "home" cities and see how they compare....

[Bagwain]

I live happly and run a business based in Pattaya.

I stopped watching the local news and reading the local papers 2 yrs ago and this stopped my worring. Maybe that was your problem. Yes there is crime here. However as many have stated, it is no worse than other places in the world.

Anybody can escape to quiter places. But give me the best of both worlds. A Thai T/G who runs a business and a S/T at the end of a phone call. (I have about 1/2 doz that I can ring up for a quickie) Bet that is not easily set up in the quieter places.

My 2 satangs worth.

[innovator]

Postthai: No, not smitten and not running away. I am simply comparing the different locations around Thailand when it comes to being treated like a human versus a human feces.

The original post had nothing to do with ladies, but rather, a frequent sense of indigestion when staying in Pattaya. From my experience, most of the girls in Pattaya, not all, but a large percentage of them are looking for money. Why? They have babies and the Thai man does not work or support them. So, they must find farangs for money.

Now, let's compare that to some other cities. The bulk of the ladies that I have met in other locations did not have babies. So, there is no urgent need to find a farang to support the family. Actually, I have no problems finding girls in other towns for free, based on respect and kindness. But, in Pattaya, and some areas designated as 'Tourist Sex Spots', the vast majority of the ladies are there for money. It is simple.

Why do you think the normal ladies in other areas appear to be ignoring you??? They don't call out, hey, sexy man, I go with you.

Because, they are normal girls, working in normal jobs and don't have a baby and Thai man to support.

I am sure that you can find this type of girl in Pattaya,, but it is much more difficult, due to all of the other working girls trying at your money.

Now, back to the original post. Exiting Pattaya for me has nothing to do with ladies at all. It has to do with quality of life. I really don't like or enjoy living in a toilet that never gets flushed and paying high prices for the luxury of living in a toilet and being surrounded by crime.

Yes, I will come back.....not today, not tomorrow....but later. I like Pattaya. But, I think it needs some serious revamping. Not just building some new shopping malls and condos and then re-naming the place, Family Resort. Those are superficial changes that do not deal directly with the real issues, primarily crime and filth.

[innovator]

Bagwain: Yes. I agree with you that if you stop watching the news and reading the papers, that this can reduce the stress and worry factor.

[kedawi]

First, I don't wear or own a gold chain. I used that as an example because I could wear a gold chain in the new city without any problems.

Second, the ladies are all available here, but they don't work for short time/ long time fees. Here, you simply take a walk around and look for a cutie...it takes a few days to spot the good one, and then, you can ask her for dinner or ice cream. A simple date. Don't expect to hit the hay within the same day, but if you can wait a few days, not weeks, a few days, then you can have a lovely girl. The long term payoff is much greater too because you found one in a normal area and you will not be paying on a daily or monthly basis for her time.

It helps to take a shower, wash your clothes, brush your teeth and smile. If you can do those things, then you can find a very sexy, hot, and lovely young girl. No tattoos, no smoking or drinking, no boyfriends hiding behind the apartment or on a motorbike. etc......

If you start the relationship off by paying for the girl, then you have set the tone for the balance of the relationship.

However, if you start out dating for a few days, you will gain a relationship that is not based on money. (you will pay for dinner, clothes, movies in the long run, but you will not be paying a monthly salary or giving money for buffalo/thai man/mamma/pappa/car/house/land/gold/phone/motorbike/ and other types of nonsense.

If you didnt wear a gold chain in pattaya how was it stolen?

[innovator]

I was making a generalization about wearing gold chains in Pattaya and the frequency of theft. Actually, I never had any real crime happen to me, but there were many close calls and it seems to me that the ALERTNESS ALARM needs to be on at all times when walking the streets as a safety measure.

Now, I have been gone for over 72 hours and my feelings are even more concrete now. No need to be alert, alarmed or cautious at all when walking around here......outside of Pattaya....so, there must be something to these feelings. The truth is that Pattaya for me creates worry, fear and anxiety because of the daily crime and criminals walking around. I guess I believe that it is better to place oneself in a nicer environment as opposed to placing oneself in a 'PERCEIVED' bad environment. Whether these feelings represent reality or not, they seem to represent reality for me.

I am very observant, almost hyper-observant of behavior. So, I am very aware of other people's intentions or potential intentions, and this can raise my alertness alarm level. I guess I was tired of using this internal system all of the time and needed a break from the need to monitor my daily walks and movements. In my current location, there is NO NEED to monitor anything because there is no real or perceived threat at all here. No motorbikes coming at me, no touts, no Indians or British condo sharing idiots aiming at me, no etc.....etc.....

Edited August 13, 2008 by innovator

[britmaveric]

Hmmm I wear a gold chain in Patters, never seen any crime, nor know anyone who has either. I suppose if you want trouble you will find it in Patters as in most places in the world. I feel safer walking in Patters than most european cities at all hrs in the day.

Let the paranoid people leave - certainly make it a more enjoyable place for the rest of us.

[NanLaew]

14 years of listening to them!

if you disagree with my hypothesis - perhaps you might outline the basis for that...if your so keen.

A bit defensive aren't we? Maybe you should widen your listening circle. After 14 years, I reckon I would need therapy too.

[samuibeachcomber]

First, I don't wear or own a gold chain. I used that as an example because I could wear a gold chain in the new city without any problems.

Second, the ladies are all available here, but they don't work for short time/ long time fees. Here, you simply take a walk around and look for a cutie...it takes a few days to spot the good one, and then, you can ask her for dinner or ice cream. A simple date. Don't expect to hit the hay within the same day, but if you can wait a few days, not weeks, a few days, then you can have a lovely girl. The long term payoff is much greater too because you found one in a normal area and you will not be paying on a daily or monthly basis for her time.

It helps to take a shower, wash your clothes, brush your teeth and smile. If you can do those things, then you can find a very sexy, hot, and lovely young girl. No tattoos, no smoking or drinking, no boyfriends hiding behind the apartment or on a motorbike. etc......

If you start the relationship off by paying for the girl, then you have set the tone for the balance of the relationship.

However, if you start out dating for a few days, you will gain a relationship that is not based on money. (you will pay for dinner, clothes, movies in the long run, but you will not be paying a monthly salary or giving money for buffalo/thai man/mamma/pappa/car/house/land/gold/phone/motorbike/ and other types of nonsense.

come share with us...............where is this paradise you have relocated,am on my way!

[NanLaew]

^ Ssshhh.... samui, it's in his head (but don't tell him that I told you).

[kedawi]

I was making a generalization about wearing gold chains in Pattaya and the frequency of theft. Actually, I never had any real crime happen to me, but there were many close calls and it seems to me that the ALERTNESS ALARM needs to be on at all times when walking the streets as a safety measure.

Now, I have been gone for over 72 hours and my feelings are even more concrete now. No need to be alert, alarmed or cautious at all when walking around here......outside of Pattaya....so, there must be something to these feelings. The truth is that Pattaya for me creates worry, fear and anxiety because of the daily crime and criminals walking around. I guess I believe that it is better to place oneself in a nicer environment as opposed to placing oneself in a 'PERCEIVED' bad environment. Whether these feelings represent reality or not, they seem to represent reality for me.

I am very observant, almost hyper-observant of behavior. So, I am very aware of other people's intentions or potential intentions, and this can raise my alertness alarm level. I guess I was tired of using this internal system all of the time and needed a break from the need to monitor my daily walks and movements. In my current location, there is NO NEED to monitor anything because there is no real or perceived threat at all here. No motorbikes coming at me, no touts, no Indians or British condo sharing idiots aiming at me, no etc.....etc.....

So what this poster is really talking about are his/her PERCEPTIONS of Pattaya....little to do with what is actually going on....the truth being that Pattaya is no more or less dangerous that thousands of other cities. The other side of the coin is of course that the perception of the new town is such that they have let their guard down and may be leaving themselves open to all the crimes and misfortune that they feared so much in Pattaya.

Edited August 13, 2008 by kedawi

[NanLaew]

I think inno's simple action of moving away is a more salient point than arguing the validity of his/her perceptions and motivation for doing so. What's that old adage? "A change is as good as a rest." Returning to Pattaya hasn't been ruled out which is not the case with the letter quoted in the OP, where some parties are so disillusioned, they have to make it a terminal break and then make sure everyone knows why.

Me, the wife and 4 month-old bairn will be back next month after a 6 month Isaan hiatus and the grown-ups are really looking forward to it. I will let you know what the bairn thinks later.

[innovator]

Yes, I said that I will be back....but I need a long break to relax....

[Mobi]

For the second time in a year we have been burgled. My wife now wants to sell-up and move.

As I am working away from home I do not know the extent of the problem, but I was already (see earler post) contemplating a move to Hua Hin / Cha Am or even to UK.

My wife now agrees with me, but as we have the kids education to consider, this will have to be a long discussion, not just a Blair-like knee-jerk reaction to a single event.

I will post again around the end of August, when I have a few days at home.

I live on the 'Darkside', a few minutes drive from the lake in Pong village and I have been very happy here. It is nothing like Pattaya City and the local folk are friendly and honest.

My house is in a small development of 5 large luxury houses, each with it's own high walls and gates.

In the past 3 months, one of the houses has been broken into 3 times and another house was also burgled. The latest episode was last night. After the first spate of burglaries I installed a sensor along the walls which will raise the alarm if anyone attempts to climb over, and every door and window has been hard wired to a separate alarm system. Both systems are connected to my mobile phone and will ring me wherever I am. I am away at the moment, but when I return I will review my security and may add to it.

It is sad that things reached this level, but I am not going to be chased away so easily.Crime is everywhere - wherever you choose to go.

[thaibeachlovers]

Second, the ladies are all available here, but they don't work for short time/ long time fees. Here, you simply take a walk around and look for a cutie...it takes a few days to spot the good one, and then, you can ask her for dinner or ice cream. A simple date. Don't expect to hit the hay within the same day, but if you can wait a few days, not weeks, a few days, then you can have a lovely girl. The long term payoff is much greater too because you found one in a normal area and you will not be paying on a daily or monthly basis for her time.

If you start the relationship off by paying for the girl, then you have set the tone for the balance of the relationship.

However, if you start out dating for a few days, you will gain a relationship that is not based on money. (you will pay for dinner, clothes, movies in the long run, but you will not be paying a monthly salary or giving money for buffalo/thai man/mamma/pappa/car/house/land/gold/phone/motorbike/ and other types of nonsense.

Ah, there's the rub. It takes days, and then the usual dating ritual. If the average punter arriving for a 2/3 week holiday has to go through all that just too get some jollies there wouldn't be much point. Might as well stay home.

As well, not everyone wants the "long term" relationship.

I don't think Pattaya is threatened by an exodus to small town Thailand!

[innovator]

I agree that crime is everywhere....but in your face type of touts and crime is not running rampant everywhere, but seems to be out of control in Pattaya city, tourist areas (beach road, 2nd road, 3rd road, South Pattaya and soi 17).

Some close calls for me....an accident at the intersection and a Thai man brandishing a gun and quickly tucking it into his back pocket as I walked on by....I wonder, what was he up to??? I don't remember coming into visual contact, face to face with a gunman ever.

I am sure that some areas in England and America, ya da ya da yada have crime, but this seems to be a nightly occurence in a small area. Pattaya is small compared to L.A. or South St. Louis, so it is hard to say that crime is everywhere. It is not really comparing apples to apples. Pattaya has daily crime and it is spreading and increasing in such a small area. Hard to compare that to the size of L.A., Flint Michigan or some other mamouth cities like Detroit. So, if you put the size into perspective, along with the fact that Pattaya is billed and marketed as a family/holiday/paradise resort, then it does not meet up to this expectation. Nobody is marketing or advertising for people to come holiday or live in Watts/Flint/S. Chicago/S. St. Louis, or any other dangerous area.

So, we need to look at Pattaya as an individual case and cannot compare it to industrial and commercial hubs, or major cities in the west. Pattaya is suppoed to be a prestine, lovely family resort in Asia...according to the T.A.T. and the marketing brochures. But, it seems that it has more than it's fair share of gang related crime and other criminal elements.

If they can clean it up, which they are trying to do, then it could become a nice city.

[thaibeachlovers]

I agree that crime is everywhere....but in your face type of touts and crime is not running rampant everywhere, but seems to be out of control in Pattaya city, tourist areas (beach road, 2nd road, 3rd road, South Pattaya and soi 17).

Some close calls for me....an accident at the intersection and a Thai man brandishing a gun and quickly tucking it into his back pocket as I walked on by....I wonder, what was he up to??? I don't remember coming into visual contact, face to face with a gunman ever.

I am sure that some areas in England and America, ya da ya da yada have crime, but this seems to be a nightly occurence in a small area. Pattaya is small compared to L.A. or South St. Louis, so it is hard to say that crime is everywhere. It is not really comparing apples to apples. Pattaya has daily crime and it is spreading and increasing in such a small area. Hard to compare that to the size of L.A., Flint Michigan or some other mamouth cities like Detroit. So, if you put the size into perspective, along with the fact that Pattaya is billed and marketed as a family/holiday/paradise resort, then it does not meet up to this expectation. Nobody is marketing or advertising for people to come holiday or live in Watts/Flint/S. Chicago/S. St. Louis, or any other dangerous area.

So, we need to look at Pattaya as an individual case and cannot compare it to industrial and commercial hubs, or major cities in the west. Pattaya is suppoed to be a prestine, lovely family resort in Asia...according to the T.A.T. and the marketing brochures. But, it seems that it has more than it's fair share of gang related crime and other criminal elements.

If they can clean it up, which they are trying to do, then it could become a nice city.

The greedy people have been trying to change Pattaya to a family oriented place for well over 10 years now, no doubt so they can make lots of moolah, but, innovator, get the reality, since the 70's it's always been a place for booze, girls ( boys/ ladyboys ) and sex. No amount of marketing can change that!

Ironically, the crime only started to get bad AFTER Toxin and his sidekick Puritanical tried to destroy Thailands western nightlife by cutting down bar opening hours and making GoGo girls cover up etc etc. I was in Pattaya before and after, so I do know what it was like.

It's a conundrum; we'd all like the traffic to get sorted, and the criminals to go away, but at the moment, they're all that keep the capitalist swine from turning Pattaya into yet another cr***y family resort town, like Hua Hin. So on the balance, given the choice of a nice city with families and few girls, high prices, like so many towns in Thailand, or Pattaya the way it is, I'll keep the latter.

[Jingthing]

One thing is certain. Pattaya will not stay as it is. It changes constantly.