Boycott The Pattaya Taxi Meter Mafia (please)

[whatsoever]

I don't believe the story. It is unlikely that a meter taxi driver would attack a farang in public for refusal of taxi services.

If it did happen then the matter should be reported to the police with witness statements. Then we would all see it reported in 'Pattaya One News' along with a photograph of the victim fingering the culprit!

My guess is the 'letter writer' was verbally abusive to the taxi driver.

Anyway, what is wrong with chartering a baht bus? I can get to almost anywhere for 100 baht, in central Pattaya. Even a baht bus to HuyYai is only 150 baht from central Pattaya.

Of course the TV ace crime reporter has spoken. Your invistigative skills only allow you to believe and report on what has been previously reported. A true repeater (good journalist by todays standards)

Remember people - if it is reported in 'Pattaya News One' then it is true and proven

[JSixpack]

I have to laugh. Just have to.

Not too long ago, in a discussion about baht buses and the "baht bus mafia", I made a comment about how long it would be before people were bitching about the "metered taxi mafia" (in reference to all the people that seem to think that metered taxis are the be-all, end-all solution to the problems with the baht buses).

Nowhere in that discussion did anyone ever suggest metered taxis replace baht buses. You've misremembered and confused taxis with regular buses, etc.

People began a legitimate bitch against the metered taxi mafia (same mafia as the baht bus mafia) immediately when "metered" taxis appeared, because they don't and won't use any meter. The taxis amount to small chartered baht buses w/ air-con.

The laugh's on you then.

[mgjackson69]

Remember people - if it is reported in 'Pattaya News One' then it is true and proven

Yep....same as if you read it on the internet.

"Tell everyone you know!"

[JSixpack]

Anyway, what is wrong with chartering a baht bus? I can get to almost anywhere for 100 baht, in central Pattaya.

Even if it's only 100 meters! That's what's wrong. And then there's the racist dual pricing.

But baht buses have been discussed ad nauseam. Let's keep on topic!

[whatsoever]

Remember people - if it is reported in 'Pattaya News One' then it is true and proven

Yep....same as if you read it on the internet.

"Tell everyone you know!"

Almost every news medium (newspapers, TV stations, radio etc) on the planet is represented via the internet. So your reference to 'reading it on the internet' is obviously ludicrous. It was fed to you at some stage to make you believe anything not covered by mainstream media in tradional form (TV. newspaper) is dubious.

However i bet your happy to repeat most things you think you know which you read in a newspaper - 'everyone knows that mate'

[Sommaz]

I get my information from a man in the pub. Or at least posters here who have talked to a man in a pub the night before.

Whilst I'm not a sheep, I'll boycott the taxi meter chappies anyway. baaaa.

[Jingthing]

Regarding the meters. They will never be used until the metered fares are fixed at a level that the drivers believe can make them a profit and pay for those brand new and expensive cars. They are just trying to make a living. They don't have a duty to make losses to make a few expat farangs happy.

Of course not. You don't get it.

These cars as anyone can see SIT IDLY MOST of the time. They wait for the big sucker fares. It has become known that they don't deal fair, so only the truly desperate engage them, and of course, tourists. They are LAZY. They could make a big public campaign that they use METER fares similar to Bangkok and then drive around all day moving people. Working alot harder. Making alot more money. I know, I know, not the Thai way, but it happened in Bangkok. Of course, the meter could be set higher than Bangkok if that is warranted, and surcharges for going out of a set IN CITY zone such as to the dark side or Sri Racha. But if they had a real taxi meter system here, they could have busy money making drivers, and MANY MORE of them.

As it is now, we have a BIG TRANSPORT MAFIA organization owning and controlling both the BAHT BUSES and the "METER" TAXIS. Yes, it is the same company. Only a mafia city would have allowed that farce to happen in the first place. But it did and we are left with a non-service. I see the great value of baht buses as BUSES and they already act as an OVERPRICED taxi charter service so we did not need another one with the FAKE taxi meters. So I suggest we starve the taxi meters out of existence. They are worse than no taxis. Cutting off their money and ruining this scam may possibly set the stage in the future for a REAL taxi meter service. Supporting them at all with our custom based on their terms which do not serve this city makes that impossible.

BTW, cities throughout the world regulate the acceptable behavior of their metered taxis. The penalties are money fines and losing their license to drive. The current mayor of Pattaya CLAIMS he wants this to be a world class international beach resort. No way with PUBLIC transport services like the FAKE taxi meters of Pattaya.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Jingthing

[whatsoever]

I get my information from a man in the pub. Or at least posters here who have talked to a man in a pub the night before.

Whilst I'm not a sheep, I'll boycott the taxi meter chappies anyway. baaaa.

I sometimes need to get back to the Dark Side during the early hours - yet it has never crossed my mind to engage one of these so called taxi meters. Call it instinct or what i have picked up on the internet

[beginner]

Regarding the meters. They will never be used until the metered fares are fixed at a level that the drivers believe can make them a profit and pay for those brand new and expensive cars. They are just trying to make a living. They don't have a duty to make losses to make a few expat farangs happy.

Of course not. You don't get it.

These cars as anyone can see SIT IDLY MOST of the time. They wait for the big sucker fares. It has become known that they don't deal fair, so only the truly desperate engage them, and of course, tourists. They are LAZY. They could make a big public campaign that they use METER fares similar to Bangkok and then drive around all day moving people. Working alot harder. Making alot more money. I know, I know, not the Thai way, but it happened in Bangkok.

BTW, cities throughout the world regulate the acceptable behavior of their metered taxis. The penalties are money fines and losing their license to drive.

Maybe its you that just doesn't get it?

We live in Pattaya (thank Buddha) to enjoy the relative freedom of a very lightly regulated city where people can do lots of things they want without interference. This is less true of Bangkok which you want to emulate.

Its a sort of cowboy economy but produces lots of willing buyers and lots of willing sellers. Its a breath of fresh air to many who felt stifled and nannied to death in their countries of origin.

The taxi situation is just one aspect of this. If taxis were heavily regulated and controlled as they are in many places then some of the Magic of Pattaya would be lost.

Back in January, you complained of being asked for 150baht for a journey from Bali Hai to Jomtien. Hardly a "big sucker fare". 150 baht!!! 150!!! According to your report you did not try to haggle but slammed the door and walked away to catch a 10 baht bus.

Me: To Jomtien please

Taxi: 150 baht

Me: (pointing to the big Taxi Meter sign on top) You are taxi METER, correct?

Taxi: Yes

Me: You have meter?

Taxi: Yes.

Me: Meter works, correct?

Taxi: Correct.

Me: Why you no use meter?

Taxi: Me wait a long time.

Me: Now you wait longer. You mafia, correct?

Taxi: No mafia.

(SLAM DOOR)

Up to you of course but 150 baht sounds like a bargain to me. Were you alone? If there had been two or three passengers it would have been positively cheap! With inflation taking off again, it will soon seem like the good old days when you could get from Pattaya to Jomtien in an air conditioned taxi for 150 baht.

But getting back to your point of whether or not 'I get it'. You must have heard the Thai response to people who try and get a discount because its low season and there are few customers around? "Can not. Have little customer, must charge more to make same".

This of course goes against our western grain but if you think about it, is a very sensible and pragmatic approach. Many places and businesses here do the same. Less customers means higher prices. Can't sell a house/condo ....then put the price up then and wait.

From the cabbies point of view, Why drive round like a blue arsed fly with a cab full of cheap charlies who probably don't tip well, when a few well chosen and negotiated trips will produce the same income with much less wear and tear on the vehicle and himself.

Most tourists would probably regard 150 baht fare as an absolute steal. To haggle over that fare would only occur to an Indian but I hear them haggle over the 10 baht fare also.

Your dream of turning Pattaya into a well regulated and consequently expensive city will surely come about one day. I imagine we will all be long gone by then; either to somewhere more amenable and cheap or passed on.

[Jingthing]

Beginner:

the transport monopoly and mafia in Pattaya is not MAGIC. Anyone who lives here who does not own a car or moto knows instead it is a NIGHTMARE.

Pattaya is becoming a big city and it is very close to Bangkok. Bangkok transport is 10 times better than Pattaya and much more afforfable, except of course for the baht buses when they work as buses (although these are still more costly than Bangkok buses). I do think the baht buses as buses serve the city quite well for limited routes and am not one of those trash the baht buses people.

I don't see your point of digging up an old post.

The fact is these taxi meters are FAKE, they don't use meters, and the same trip in Pattaya using them cost alot more for the same distance here than in Bangkok. So how do you figure from that I am lobbying for HIGHER prices?

Edited August 9, 2008 by Jingthing

[SmartFarang]

Some people clearly have no BACKBONE. We do indeed have lots of ECONOMIC POWER to change some things here in Pattaya. But not if we are are so nauseatingly "understanding" about a violent mafia. Amazing this rationalizer makes it the letter's writer's fault. Truly classic and totally expected.

Bangkok did not become a greater city and get mostly compliant METER USING taxi meters with people being so understanding about a public transport system that does not serve the public. If Pattaya is to improve as so many give lip service and nothing else to wanting, people here are going to have to get a lot less understanding of the local mafias.

Thanks to those who appreciate my point of view on this. As farangs, we do not have political power, but we do have wallet power. This newish service is so unacceptably bad and not as promised (remember the initial press releases saying they WOULD use meters) that we should simply tell them to STUFF IT by denying them any business at all. No thanks. Now I realize this strategy to get real taxi meters might take 10 or 20 or 30 years (it also took Bangkok a very long time, talk to some old Thai hands about when none of the taxis in Bangkok would use the meters, not that long ago, now MOST do) but just caving and playing the game with this mafia is guaranteed continued corruption and lack of a real public service.

These cars as anyone can see SIT IDLY MOST of the time. They wait for the big sucker fares. It has become known that they don't deal fair, so only the truly desperate engage them, and of course, tourists. They are LAZY. They could make a big public campaign that they use METER fares similar to Bangkok and then drive around all day moving people. Working alot harder. Making alot more money. I know, I know, not the Thai way, but it happened in Bangkok. Of course, the meter could be set higher than Bangkok if that is warranted, and surcharges for going out of a set IN CITY zone such as to the dark side or Sri Racha. But if they had a real taxi meter system here, they could have busy money making drivers, and MANY MORE of them.

As it is now, we have a BIG TRANSPORT MAFIA organization owning and controlling both the BAHT BUSES and the "METER" TAXIS. Yes, it is the same company. Only a mafia city would have allowed that farce to happen in the first place. But it did and we are left with a non-service. I see the great value of baht buses as BUSES and they already act as an OVERPRICED taxi charter service so we did not need another one with the FAKE taxi meters. So I suggest we starve the taxi meters out of existence. They are worse than no taxis. Cutting off their money and ruining this scam may possibly set the stage in the future for a REAL taxi meter service. Supporting them at all with our custom based on their terms which do not serve this city makes that impossible.

BTW, cities throughout the world regulate the acceptable behavior of their metered taxis. The penalties are money fines and losing their license to drive. The current mayor of Pattaya CLAIMS he wants this to be a world class international beach resort. No way with PUBLIC transport services like the FAKE taxi meters of Pattaya.

Beginner:

the transport monopoly and mafia in Pattaya is not MAGIC. Anyone who lives here who does not own a car or moto knows instead it is a NIGHTMARE.

Pattaya is becoming a big city and it is very close to Bangkok. Bangkok transport is 10 times better than Pattaya and much more afforfable, except of course for the baht buses when they work as buses (although these are still more costly than Bangkok buses). I do think the baht buses as buses serve the city quite well for limited routes and am not one of those trash the baht buses people.

I don't see your point of digging up an old post.

The fact is these taxi meters are FAKE, they don't use meters, and the same trip in Pattaya using them cost alot more for the same distance here than in Bangkok. So how do you figure from that I am lobbying for HIGHER prices?

I agree with Jingthing.

Edited August 9, 2008 by SmartFarang

[Jingthing]

Thanks, Smarty.

Another point. Another poster mentioned that economic power is the same thing as political power. I don't really think so. We as farangs cannot vote, cannot run for office, cannot stage public political demonstrations. People get confused thinking that what they buy or not buy is everything. It is not. But it pretty much all we can do about this taxi meter farce. Again, I ask, please consider STARVING THEM OUT OF EXISTENCE. They are worse than NO TAXIS. Do not accept this horrible level of service. By using them at all, by giving them any of your money, you are giving your consent to this very bad transport monopoly.

BTW: If you feel sympathetic with the idea of BOYCOTTING THE PATTAYA TAXI METERS, please consider telling your friends about this idea and the rationale behind it.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Jingthing

[Naam]

Some people clearly have no BACKBONE. We do indeed have lots of ECONOMIC POWER to change some things here in Pattaya. But not if we are are so nauseatingly "understanding" about a violent mafia.

i [not so] humbly beg to disagree Jingthing. farangs in Pattaya who depend on available "public transport" do not possess "lots of ECONOMIC POWER"

[Jingthing]

Some people clearly have no BACKBONE. We do indeed have lots of ECONOMIC POWER to change some things here in Pattaya. But not if we are are so nauseatingly "understanding" about a violent mafia.

i [not so] humbly beg to disagree Jingthing. farangs in Pattaya who depend on available "public transport" do not possess "lots of ECONOMIC POWER"

Whatever, if that is some kind of insult at people who choose to not own private transport, it is kind of low.

If you are driving, you are already not using public transport. If you are not driving, you have the choice about how to use the public transport. I am suggesting starving the taxis. If you need a charter, charter a baht bus or a private car service you can call on the phone like Mr. Tooms. The taxis offered us nothing we didn't have already. If we want better, we need to more than passive little bunnies.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Jingthing

[SmartFarang]

I disagree with anyone that uses arguments such as "it is so inexpensive to me, just pay and do not complain...", or "in my country the price would be ...". In my opinion, such attitude is nonsensical and counter-productive. Relative ability to pay between potential customers, relative price index between countries, is all irrelevant.

You may have higher or lower net worth than me so your ability to pay will differ, and your determination of affordability is of no interest to anyone else. This is a side issue and does not bear on the main issue. Prices are set by vendors, means-testing does not come into it. Price is determined by many factors, but customer net-worth is not one of them.

Similarly, we are in Thailand and not Bangladesh or Monaco. Prices of goods and services in other locations are not comparable to prices here.

I also disagree with arguments to protect the "way of life...", the "lack of regulation" in Thailand with respect to the issue of Taxi regulation. In many respects, Govt. intrusion into our personal lives in our home countries has become intolerable, and may be a major factor in our decision to live here. I understand and agree with that. However, I would like to see regulation, testing, proper licensing, and enforcement in many fields here. For example; Clinics, Dentists, Property Agents, and Taxis.

And yes, Foreigners do have economic power in Pattaya. We may be a minority, but we spend a much greater amount on goods and services than the Thais. If we withhold our business, we will make a difference. Hence low season and high season. When we are not here, or do not spend, businesses suffer. Thai custom in most types of business - including taxis - is negligible in comparison.

I use metered taxis all the time when in Bangkok, but never in Pattaya.

No meter, no go.

Edited August 9, 2008 by SmartFarang

[Kerryd]

If you are driving, you are already not using public transport. If you are not driving, you have the choice about how to use the public transport. I am suggesting starving the taxis. If you need a charter, charter a baht bus or a private car service you can call on the phone like Mr. Tooms. The taxis offered us nothing we didn't have already. If we want better, we need to more than passive little bunnies.

I would again use a comment from a previous thread, where I mentioned that even if all the (expat) farangs in Pattaya that use these services were to boycott them, the taxi drivers (like the baht bus drivers) would not even notice the slight loss. There just aren't enough farangs using these taxis (even when they are available).

The chances are minimal of getting all farangs (tourists and expats), and other tourists to boycott the metered taxis, and if they did, what are their options ? Baht buses and moto-taxis, both of which have been bitched about (repeatedly) in the past.

I'm having a hard time thinking up viable options though, other than acquiring your own mode of transport. Private car services may be OK for some (depending on price though, and as we know, there are many expats who are teetering on the brink financially and follow the exchange rates closer than their favourite sports team. Some would not be willing to shell out the cost of private car service.)

The other problem I see with that is, if such services became popular, they would have to hire more cars/drivers. Whose to say they would be any better (service-wise) than what is currently available ?

Not to mention that if private car services gained in popularity, they would end up in direct (and possibly violent) conflict with the taxi mafias (remember the hassles the public buses had with the same mafias ?).

That's also assuming the same mafias don't simply start their own private car services (and guess what kind of drivers they'd have).

The only solution I can think of at the moment is for political action, but as we know, the chances of that happening are slim to none.

[Naam]

Some people clearly have no BACKBONE. We do indeed have lots of ECONOMIC POWER to change some things here in Pattaya. But not if we are are so nauseatingly "understanding" about a violent mafia.

i [not so] humbly beg to disagree Jingthing. farangs in Pattaya who depend on available "public transport" do not possess "lots of ECONOMIC POWER"

Whatever, if that is some kind of insult at people who choose to not own private transport, it is kind of low.

stating a fact is not an insult! and i stated an undeniable fact. another fact is that resident farangs are a tiny percentage of the total number of foreigners who visit Pattaya on a temporary basis. that means there is no "economic power" available to make an impact. all bitching about the "mafia" is totally useless and any boycott will not yield results. welcome to reality, don't use baht buses, don't use "metered" taxis... just walk. exercise is healthy

[Naam]

And yes, Foreigners do have economic power in Pattaya. We may be a minority, but we spend a much greater amount on goods and services than the Thais. If we withhold our business, we will make a difference. Hence low season and high season. When we are not here, or do not spend, businesses suffer. Thai custom in most types of business - including taxis - is

if it makes you happy keep on daydreaming. you have my blessings

[JetsetBkk]

Amazing Thailand indeed, where low, scum criminals are refered to as "Mafia" why?

I have wondered that also...it seems to be a common usage among Thais.

They like to call themselves "Mafia". Makes them feel big. They are just thugs who operate in gangs.

[Jingthing]

I use metered taxis all the time when in Bangkok, but never in Pattaya.

No meter, no go.

No meter, no go.

It has a certain ring to it!

[Kerryd]

I use metered taxis all the time when in Bangkok, but never in Pattaya.

No meter, no go.

No meter, no go.

It has a certain ring to it!

A thought just came to me (happens once in awhile during those rare sober moments).

I haven't been in a metered cab in Thailand that I can recall, definitely not in Pattaya. However, in other countries/cities I've noticed signs near the meters that if it isn't turned on then the ride is free (or words to that effect. Essentially, if the driver forgets to turn the meter on, he can't charge you anything for the trip).

Are there similar signs on the Pattaya (or other) metered cabs ? Not that I'd expect it to be honoured at any rate.

Also while I'm still thinking (and sober). In most places I've been, the cabs are controlled through their respective company's central dispatch. I may be going out on a rather thin limb here, but would it be safe to assume that isn't the case with the metered taxis in Pattaya ?

If that is the case, then the metered cabs are "owner/operator" (independent), and can pretty much do whatever they want (as far as picking/refusing fares, using/not using the meter, negotiating fares, etc).

I think it was mentioned previously that many of these metered taxis are primarily looking for fares to Bangkok (or at least to the airport). Those are probably the ones that brought a fare to Pattaya and are looking for a paying trip back. You see the signs all over the city advertising 800 baht fares to the airport. These guys are probably sitting around waiting for a call to pick someone up and take him back, and don't want to risk losing an airport trip just to shuttle a couple people around Pattaya on 40-50 baht trips.

Perhaps the local cabs should be marked/painted differently to distinguish them from the Bangkok cabs, so locals would have an easier time figuring out which cab to use ?

It wouldn't stop a local cab from making an airport trip if the opportunity arose of course, and that may have advantages as well. People travelling to Pattaya from the airport would be able to spot a Pattaya taxi and use that instead of a Bangkok cab.

[Jingthing]

The Pattaya taxi meters, contrary to the misinformation presented here, are mostly interested in LOCAL CHARTERS (exact same market as the baht buses when used as charter taxis), not airport or Bangkok trips. Airport and Bangkok city trips are already well covered with the bargain 800 baht stands which have NOTHING to do with the Pattaya taxi meters.

The Pattaya taxi meters have a big meter sign on top and new WORKING meters. Reports are they are almost never used. When you ask (try it) watch them say NO!

In case some people are confused about this, no you would NOT expect a metered fare from Pattaya to the airport or Bangkok city. These are always set fares. If you were stupid enough to pay a Pattaya taxi meter for this it would surely cost much more than 800 baht (2000 would be my guess), but like I said, those longer haul charters are not their raison d'etre.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Here is what they look like. Note the big METER sign. You can't miss them. The cars are owned by the baht bus company. Coincidence? I think not. No local transport MAFIA, my arse! You might think of them as KATHOEY cars. Dressed as taxi meters, but really something else entirely.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Jingthing

[PattayaParent]

Take a baht bus off the road and replace it with a metered taxi isn't going to make much difference as far as the behaviour of the driver(s) is concerned. It will make competition for fares a lot more fierce. Can't cram 10+ people into your average metered taxi like they can with a baht bus. Metered taxis charge the same fare if there is one or four passengers (in other words, if the metered taxi makes a run that comes out to a 15 baht fare, it doesn't matter if there are 1-4 passengers, the total fare would be 15 baht. For a baht bus it would be 5 (or 10) baht per person, and he could have 10+ people on the same trip).

So, replacing baht buses with metered taxis (i.e. 1 for one) would reduce the overall capacity, which would (possibly) result in

a) higher fares to make up for the reduced capacity to carry passengers.

more taxis on the road in the future than there are baht buses currently.

BUT how many times do you see full baht buses?, not many and only in tourist season.

Stand anywhere along Second Road and count the number of people in the passing baht buses and I'll bet you that for every 10 that go past there's maybe 3 that have passengers and the total number of passengers will be 6. i.e less than the capacity of 1 full baht bus.

There's always been too many baht buses on the roads in Pattaya than the city can hope to provide income for.

So replacing 50% of the baht buses with about 50 metered taxis that USE the meter would keep everybody busy and provide a good income for all.

But as Jingthing says, they're too lazy to want to work for their money and would rather overcharge gullible farangs.

[beginner]

I use metered taxis all the time when in Bangkok, but never in Pattaya.

No meter, no go.

No meter, no go.

It has a certain ring to it!

Jingthing are you and SmartFarang related? (Smarty your number one supporter and fan).

Are you twins?

Your dogs appear to be.

Are you the same person?

[Jingthing]

No, not the same. My dog is a cockapoo named Alex, BTW.

So replacing 50% of the baht buses with about 50 metered taxis that USE the meter would keep everybody busy and provide a good income for all.

Excellent idea and would give much greater coverage, city-wide. How often do people without vehicles go to businesses on 3rd road, for example? A more normalized Bangkok style transport system would not only be good for tourists and expats, it would also be great for LOCAL BUSINESSES, those outside the normal baht bus routes. They could advertise with taxi cards and if we have normal taxis here, people would actually use them.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Jingthing

[britmaveric]

How bout 50% more baht buses and perhaps 1-2 taxi(s) with no meters?

[Jingthing]

How bout 50% more baht buses and perhaps 1-2 taxi(s) with no meters?

Correct me if I am wrong, please. You either don't live here or you have a car or moto and DON'T REALLY CARE about this issue, yes?

Anyway, a city's public transport system is not like a restaurant or a laundry. It is BASIC INFRASTRUCTURE. Cities with great infrastructure prosper. Those without it decay and decline.

[britmaveric]

Seriously Jing mate - u might as well bang your head against the wall - we will be all dead buried by time the taxi(s) are sorted out.

[Jingthing]

Seriously Jing mate - u might as well bang your head against the wall - we will be all dead buried by time the taxi(s) are sorted out.

Yeah probably.

So which first, real taxi meters in Pattaya or peace in the Middle East?