Changing Citizenship

[maccaroni man]

There was a post some time past about getting Thai citizenship to relieve the hassle of immigration. He went on to explain that he was required to sing the national song and pledge allegiance to Thailand. The Op was congratulated and many well wishers sent him kudos. I was not one of the well wishers and was scolded by the mediators immediately. My post simply said: I don’t get it. What I meant to say is why would anyone want to be a citizen of a country that will never accept you as one of their own? I may be silly or out of step but I believe the responsibility of citizenship includes a willingness to die protecting what my country stands for. Every country has it’s own indoctrination as to what should be cherished so the question is not what is to be honored the query is; would you be willing to pledge allegiance to Thailand and in doing so be willing to die for it?

[jumnien]

As a US citizen, I feel no compulsion to die for my country. Why should I? I have not pledged allegiance either.

[Jingthing]

In the US, nothing is CONTRACTUALLY required of native citizens, but to BECOME a US citizen, the implication is that you must be willing to defend the USA, which could mean dying:

When you become a U.S. citizen, you must give up all prior allegiances to other countries. Although nobody will care if you root for your birth country in a soccer match (actually, some soccer fans may care, but the U.S. government certainly won't), you won't be able to defend that country against the United States in times of conflict or war. You must also be willing to serve your new country, the United States of America, when required. What this means is that if the U.S. is at war or in the midst of some other type of crisis, you need to be willing to take up arms for the U.S. or otherwise aid the military effort in whatever capacity is needed.

I would expect similar to become a citizen of most anywhere. I also agree Thailand is not a welcoming country for very many non-Asians who want to go all the way and become Thai.

Edited August 21, 2008 by Jingthing

[GuestHouse]

Short answer...

NO!

[mgjackson69]

I would question the loyalty of anyone who would become a citizen of another country simply "to relieve the hassle of immigration".

[gymshark]

I'd defend myself, family and friends. Countries are just big lumps of dirt, what's do die for? Location means nothing.r

Edited August 21, 2008 by gymshark

[12DrinkMore]

I can't think of anything I would be willing to DIE for, but I would be willing to KILL for a beer.

But while we're on the subject of assuming Thai nationality, I have been told it entails being given a Thai name, which then appears on your Thai documents.

Is this true? And would you be willing to change your name to become a Thai national?

[toptuan]

Counties are just big lumps of dirt, what's do die for? Location means nothing.

Well, I agree. I certainly wouldn't die for a little old county. Maybe a country.

[DaoDao]

Not only not die for [any country...] but aswell giving up your rights, lets face it as much as I love Thailand, you're better of with almost any other pasport...I can't imagine someone would concider this only to avoid 'Immigration hassles'...

[gymshark]

Counties are just big lumps of dirt, what's do die for? Location means nothing.

Well, I agree. I certainly wouldn't die for a little old county. Maybe a country.

Edited, cheers.

[Jingthing]

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Well, as a kid, I recited this pledge every school day with my hand on my heart and it went down easy enough. The under God part was added in 1950's and probably doesn't belong there. During the Vietnam war, I and many of my friends refused to say the pledge in protest. In some countries even today, such acts of rebellion would be severely punished. So I guess my allegiance is conditional on whether my country is living up to its ideals, or not. I might indeed be willing to die for my country (though please don't make me live there), but I would never be willing to die for another. I don't care if that sounds primitive, we haven't quite achieved one world government at this stage in our evolution, and I doubt we ever will.

BTW, it is a good thing there is no army draft in the US for Iraq. If there was, it would be Vietnam all over again, because that is a totally immoral war, and gives shame to all Americans.

Edited August 21, 2008 by Jingthing

[BigSnake]

Yes, if giving full rights as afford to all Thai Citizen, ie; Thai ID card, right to own land, vote, run for public office(if quaified) job of my choice, passport, etc etc. Why not?? I don't think it will ever happpen in my life time, Oh well so be it. for a short visit.

[Misplaced]

Die for a country? hel_l no!

Die for my family? hel_l yes

NO friend is worth my own life because they all would screw you for a few bucks.

[Jingthing]

I understand why people say they aren't willing to die for their country. But our countries gave many of us alot of what we were to become. People aren't independent units. Families aren't either. There is a bigger picture. To me, it seems very ungrateful to be unwilling to fight for your country if they are directly invaded by a hostile power. That is the condition I feel. Its academic for me though, too old, and too gay!

Edited August 21, 2008 by Jingthing

[poshthai]

To answer that question may require critisising Thailand which could lead to a ban,so i cannot answer that one.

The problem is how far do we go to speak truthfuly without getting banned.

[sonofdon]

speak your mind i find mods here to be very fair!

[ade100]

Why would anyone want Thai citizenship? You would immediately be looked down upon, excluded and rejected from just about every country in the world. You may as well just get “I am an undesirable” tattooed on your forehead.

And last time Thailand was involved in an armed conflict (Iraq) their glorious leader told them they weren’t allowed to go outside…so unlikely you would die except from boredom.

[Jingthing]

Why would anyone want Thai citizenship?

It depends where you are coming from. I am sure alot of Burmese do want it.

[sonofdon]

seriously, i dont know what los has to offer other than girls

does an usa guy give up ss benefits if he become thai?

Edited August 21, 2008 by sonofdon

[mrt273nva]

In the US, nothing is CONTRACTUALLY required of native citizens

have you ever heard of the selective service that every US citizen must apply for at the age of 18. if you do not then you face felony charges.

[Jingthing]

In the US, nothing is CONTRACTUALLY required of native citizens

have you ever heard of the selective service that every US citizen must apply for at the age of 18. if you do not then you face felony charges.

You are correct. I stand corrected. But that is only for certain age groups. A new citizen even if over military age would have to contract his allegiance.

[Huey]

There was a post some time past about getting Thai citizenship to relieve the hassle of immigration. He went on to explain that he was required to sing the national song and pledge allegiance to Thailand. The Op was congratulated and many well wishers sent him kudos. I was not one of the well wishers and was scolded by the mediators immediately. My post simply said: I don’t get it. What I meant to say is why would anyone want to be a citizen of a country that will never accept you as one of their own? I may be silly or out of step but I believe the responsibility of citizenship includes a willingness to die protecting what my country stands for. Every country has it’s own indoctrination as to what should be cherished so the question is not what is to be honored the query is; would you be willing to pledge allegiance to Thailand and in doing so be willing to die for it?

*shrug* Guess it depends on what you believe in and not what those around you do. Thousands upon Thousands of Black American's died for their country in the military for over a century before we were actually by and large accepted as equals.

[Huey]

speak your mind i find mods here to be very fair!

Ya haven't been around long enough. Some use their modship to silence those with opinions contrasting to their own. Bannings are not at all uncommon for having the wrong opinion.

[roamer]

Its a simple question really.

Am I prepared do die for my country ?

In my case, UK, errr, No.

If I take out Thai nationality,

Am I prepared do die for my country ?

In my case, Thailand, errr, No.

[garro]

I would never kill or die in the name of any country. My home country suffered from rampant nationalism with many people killing and dying in its name. What a waste. Life is too short and I believe that where we are born is a matter of luck. Blind nationalism blinds the masses but only serves the interest of the few.

I would like to eventually obtain Thai citizenship while keeping my own. I won't be killing or dying for anywhere though.

[Tinkelbell]

I understand why people say they aren't willing to die for their country. But our countries gave many of us alot of what we were to become. People aren't independent units. Families aren't either. There is a bigger picture. To me, it seems very ungrateful to be unwilling to fight for your country if they are directly invaded by a hostile power. That is the condition I feel. Its academic for me though, too old, and too gay!

Jingthing, you say it very well, I wholesomely agree.

I already decide to vote for 'John McCain', this happens the momenth after I read his book 'Faith of My Father", the verse......

" I.....give thanks that by a lucky accident of birth, I was born an American."

I feel McCain loves his country deeply. His love for the US has been known even the Vietgong warden where McCain was locked up in Hanoi almost five years, also praises that during captived McCain had shown great love and pride for his own country.

[Old Croc]

I guess the question should be clarified.

Would you be willing to die for your country if it was being overwhealmed by an invading force? (Alternatives are to succumb or flee)

A quite different question to: Would you be willing to die for your country in a war your country is waging in a foreign land, eg Iraq?

I think the situations could elicite different responses.

[Scott]

Unequivocally NO. I would most likely die of heart failure while trying to flee. I am more like a bus driver than a soldier!

[ade100]

What is the situation with Permanent Residents in Thailand? Can they get called up to fight?

In Singapore a lot of PRs have to do National Service so in the unlikely event of a war between Singapore and the NATO countries, many PRs could be called up to fight by both sides.

[bassmaster50]

I am and will always be American no matter where i choose to live. I have fought for my country and was willing to die for it but not for any other. Though I have fought for people in countries other than America. For those so called Americans here who say they would not die for their country, they should know that they are lucky that better and braver men than they did die for the rights they and all Americans enjoy today.