Just Immigration Questions

[Greenside]

Please see this thread

My question:

Why has the immigration office stopped issuing Certificates of Residence? They are costly and inconvenient to obtain from Embassies and required for many simple procedures, for example renewing a driving license.

[uptheos]

If immigration grants a person a continuum of I year retirement or marriage visas and the person has a stable address and a stable bank account/income - why on earth should they need a certificate of residence from their consulate to renew a five year driving licence?

[miltonbentley]

It was announced at the Expats Club's last meeting that the Immigration Office has resumed issuing these certificates. I cannot personally confirm but that is what was announced.

[Bill97]

If immigration grants a person a continuum of I year retirement or marriage visas and the person has a stable address and a stable bank account/income - why on earth should they need a certificate of residence from their consulate to renew a five year driving licence?

That is not a question for immigration, it is a question for the office that issues the driving licenses.

So perhaps the question for immigration is why they give visas to people who do not know the difference between the immigration office and the driving license office or have other similar problems?

Edited August 22, 2008 by Bill97

[bunta71]

If Police Colonel Prayut Chomalee would spend 30 minutes with me one on one, I could point out some glaring problems that could be fixed within a couple days and would make the Immigration folks job easier for all involved. The problems I speak of would take too much to explain here but would be sooo easy to fix

[Nienke]

In that case, I suggest you go to that meeting and share your knowledge there.

Nienke

[bunta71]

I will attend hopefully and maybe set up a convenient lunch or meeting with the Col. It may sound a little pretentious but I do have some input that will help all parties if listened to. Never say die..

[Nienke]

Thank you, Bunta71.

[uptheos]

If immigration grants a person a continuum of I year retirement or marriage visas and the person has a stable address and a stable bank account/income - why on earth should they need a certificate of residence from their consulate to renew a five year driving licence?

That is not a question for immigration, it is a question for the office that issues the driving licenses.

So perhaps the question for immigration is why they give visas to people who do not know the difference between the immigration office and the driving license office or have other similar problems?

Pointing out something is fine or just simply ignore it. I don't understand the need for ignorant sarcastic answers which are just designed to spoil a thread.

Thanks for the info smart arse.

[Sathip2008]

It was announced at the Expats Club's last meeting that the Immigration Office has resumed issuing these certificates. I cannot personally confirm but that is what was announced.

Could anybody confirm ? Because my embassy charges THB 1'800,00 for this f..... certificate ( a rip off when you think it's just 3 lines on a piece of paper) . So it would be nice if the IO would issue it again.

[Mapguy]

It was announced at the Expats Club's last meeting that the Immigration Office has resumed issuing these certificates. I cannot personally confirm but that is what was announced.

Could anybody confirm ? Because my embassy charges THB 1'800,00 for this f..... certificate ( a rip off when you think it's just 3 lines on a piece of paper) . So it would be nice if the IO would issue it again.

I suggest you go there and ask, if pressed, or call them up. They do have a telephone number and do speak English. Or wait until the next meeting of Chiang Mai Friends and ask the colonel himself. People have been asked to submit questions in advance.

Now, one of the questions I am interested in has to do with those who are unable to physically travel to the office or who can not, because of stroke, perhaps, not even complete and sign a 90-day residence application. Given the average age of the expat community and the the high level of alcohol lovers, "fry up" freaks and cinamon roll fanatics, I think that is a reasonable question.

For now, a simple question. Anyone actually thought of this, or are people in denial --- except for the next "fry up?!"

[sylviex]

Mapguy, when I first came to CM, the British "owner" of the hotel in which I stayed told me he had not been to Immigration for years. He told me his wife always went on his behalf and "knew everyone there". He had "mobility problems".

I would suppose the answer to your question is, like almost everything regarding the "law" here, "depends".

Next !

Edited August 23, 2008 by sylviex

[Nienke]

It was announced at the Expats Club's last meeting that the Immigration Office has resumed issuing these certificates. I cannot personally confirm but that is what was announced.

Could anybody confirm ?

I suggest you go there and ask, if pressed, or call them up. They do have a telephone number and do speak English. Or wait until the next meeting of Chiang Mai Friends and ask the colonel himself. People have been asked to submit questions in advance.

I've also heard that immigration issues these certificates again.

Nonetheless, this question could be added to the question list to K. Boong. What ya think, Greenside?

Nienke

[miltonbentley]

Re: Residency Certificates - it is confirmed in the Expat Newsletter this week that immigration are now issuing them again. Very welcome news indeed.

[Greenside]

It was announced at the Expats Club's last meeting that the Immigration Office has resumed issuing these certificates. I cannot personally confirm but that is what was announced.

Could anybody confirm ?

I suggest you go there and ask, if pressed, or call them up. They do have a telephone number and do speak English. Or wait until the next meeting of Chiang Mai Friends and ask the colonel himself. People have been asked to submit questions in advance.

I've also heard that immigration issues these certificates again.

Nonetheless, this question could be added to the question list to K. Boong. What ya think, Greenside?

Nienke

Tom tells me that they've definitely started again but I'd say that we should see if anyone has any luck actually getting one in the next few days - feedback please! If it's all OK then maybe we should include something saying how much we appreciate the resumption of service and ask him to confirm the price or the papers required. If it isn't working as advertised then the question stands.

By the way since starting this thread, a number of people have warned me about how diplomatically the whole thing has to be handled and pointed out that given his agreement to appear at a Q & A session and request for the questions in advance, attempts by individuals to buttonhole him on specific issues outside of this framework will very likely not be looked on kindly. Despite our net input of money into the local and national economy there are many people at the sharp end who could so easily see us as irritating and arrogant nuisances, constantly telling them how to run things better, with the obvious result that things will become more difficult.

CM Immigration is actually pretty good to deal if you make it to the window with the right papers and frame of mind. It may be that they don't love (or in some cases fully understand) all the regulations they're bound to enforce but one thing's for sure: like anyone else, they don't like to be told how to do their job! Let's try and make the most of this opportunity by asking pertinent questions and putting some of our points across at the same time.

Edited August 23, 2008 by Greenside

[ricklev]

Only 500 baht, according to the newsletter. That seems very reasonable!

[KevinHunt]

Only 500 baht, according to the newsletter. That seems very reasonable!

A mate recently forked out 2,400 (?) each for 2 letters from the British Consul.

Something along the lines of 'the person herein mentioned told us he's staying at the address stated.'

I'll leave it for a while before I break the good news.

He's still getting over it.

[slapout]

reasonable is in the eye of the payee, compared to consulate prices, yes I agree, compared to the old immigration price (free) vs 500 baht, ok accepted. Like someone mentioned above (why is it required)? Its to make paper so somchai has material to sell to the recycle people who come by, thus supply a fund to by food for the fish in the glass jar. For driving license it can be once every 5 year so give up a night out (alone) every 5 year, pay the man and smile.

[Loaded]

My questions:

When you forget to sign in and you're 1 day over the grace period, you're fined 2,000THB

When you haven't signed in at all despite staying many years, on departure nobody cares, but if they do care the fine is only 2,000THB

1) Where's the incentive to bother signing in?

When you don't have a visa, you are fined 500THB per day

2) Why are you fined only 500THB for overstaying one day (IE NO visa) but 2,000THB when you forget to sign in by one day but have a valid visa?

Edited August 23, 2008 by Loaded

[Sathip2008]

I suggest you go there and ask, if pressed, or call them up.

Tom tells me that they've definitely started again but I'd say that we should see if anyone has any luck actually getting one in the next few days - feedback please!

OK, I'll go there tomorrow morning, because I need it "pronto" in order to get my driving license. I'll keep you posted

[cloudhopper]

Q1 - Can the 800k Baht bank balance required for visa extension based on retirement be held in a joint account with Thai spouse? If so is any extra documentation required in this case (e.g. marriage cert, tabien baan)?

Q2 - Does this minimum balance still have to be continuously maintained for at least 3 months prior to renewal?

Thanks

[Mapguy]

Q1 - Can the 800k Baht bank balance required for visa extension based on retirement be held in a joint account with Thai spouse? If so is any extra documentation required in this case (e.g. marriage cert, tabien baan)?

Q2 - Does this minimum balance still have to be continuously maintained for at least 3 months prior to renewal?

Thanks

SHORT ANSWERS:

A1 - No, must be in the individual's name.

A2 - Yes. Because so many expats were gaming the system by switching bhat from one person's account to another for short periods of time. Oy!

LONG ANSWER:

Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters

No. 606/2549

Re: Rules and Conditions in the Consideration of Alien Applications

for Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand

[published in October 2006]

Visa_Regulations__Police_Order__10.2006.pdf

[Maestro]

My questions:

When you forget to sign in and you're 1 day over the grace period, you're fined 2,000THB

...

Scrap that question, perhaps.

You are talking about the 90-day address report and for this you will not be fined if you report to the immigration office up to 7 days late:

1. The foreigner makes the notification in person, or

2. The foreigner authorises another person to make the notification, or

3. The foreigner makes the notification by registered mail.

4. The notification must be made within 7 days before or after the period of 90 days expires.

5. The first application for extention of stay by the foreigner is equivalent to the notification of

staying in the Kingdom over 90 days

Source: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days

--

Maestro

[mongoose]

My questions:

When you forget to sign in and you're 1 day over the grace period, you're fined 2,000THB

...

Scrap that question, perhaps.

You are talking about the 90-day address report and for this you will not be fined if you report to the immigration office up to 7 days late:

Maestro

[/size]

Is Loaded's grace period the 7 days Maestro refers to? If so, Loaded's question seems reasonable, why charge 2000 for one more day.

[bunta71]

Forgive me for not knowing all the ins and outs here. About two months or so ago, I saw something about this "Tom" who apparently works at immigration or "has someones ear " at immigration. I sent several PM's and e-mails to the people who had mentioned this Tom. No one answered my inquiries so here it is again. Can anyone shed light on this person or give me some contact details????

[Flatouthruthefog]

My questions:

When you forget to sign in and you're 1 day over the grace period, you're fined 2,000THB

...

Scrap that question, perhaps.

You are talking about the 90-day address report and for this you will not be fined if you report to the immigration office up to 7 days late:

1. The foreigner makes the notification in person, or

2. The foreigner authorises another person to make the notification, or

3. The foreigner makes the notification by registered mail.

4. The notification must be made within 7 days before or after the period of 90 days expires.

5. The first application for extention of stay by the foreigner is equivalent to the notification of

staying in the Kingdom over 90 days

Source: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days

--

Maestro

In the spirit of general helpfulness, allow me to repeat a salient fact I discovered (almost to my cost) last year.

The 90 day 'signing in' period runs from your last 90 day signing IRRESPECTIVE of any visa re-newal during that period. Stick to your 90 day schedule come what may!

Immigration also told me that the 7 day 'period of grace' prior to and after the due date means 7 WORKING days, ie midweek days. Worth careful notes in your diary immediately after your signing, eh?

[sylviex]

Forgive me for not knowing all the ins and outs here. About two months or so ago, I saw something about this "Tom" who apparently works at immigration or "has someones ear " at immigration. I sent several PM's and e-mails to the people who had mentioned this Tom. No one answered my inquiries so here it is again. Can anyone shed light on this person or give me some contact details????

Jaroonroat Krasaesuk (Tom)

retireinchiangmai.com/aboutus.php

To get his contact details, you could ask the Chiang Mai Expats Club chiangmaiexpatsclub.com/index.asp for which he works as a volunteer or the Friends group, of which he is also a member(website above). Probably someone can send you the info by private message here.

Tom offers legal services to expats (largely for visa help, I think) and sometimes works behind the counter at CM Immigration Dept (maybe one day/week ?). An interesting arrangement !

P.S. If you google Tom's name, as I just did, you will find he works with Alan Hall (Expats Club President) at "PFM Interantional".

pfm-international.net/team.htm, a Financial management company. Their webpages have an email address & phone numbers.

A Thai national, was educated at Chiangmai University and has a B.A in Law and a B.A in Political Science. Tom is fluent in English and brings local experience and legal expertise to the team.

Edited August 24, 2008 by sylviex

[Greenside]

My questions:

When you forget to sign in and you're 1 day over the grace period, you're fined 2,000THB

...

Scrap that question, perhaps.

You are talking about the 90-day address report and for this you will not be fined if you report to the immigration office up to 7 days late:

1. The foreigner makes the notification in person, or

2. The foreigner authorises another person to make the notification, or

3. The foreigner makes the notification by registered mail.

4. The notification must be made within 7 days before or after the period of 90 days expires.

5. The first application for extention of stay by the foreigner is equivalent to the notification of

staying in the Kingdom over 90 days

Source: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days

--

Maestro

In the spirit of general helpfulness, allow me to repeat a salient fact I discovered (almost to my cost) last year.

The 90 day 'signing in' period runs from your last 90 day signing IRRESPECTIVE of any visa re-newal during that period. Stick to your 90 day schedule come what may!

Immigration also told me that the 7 day 'period of grace' prior to and after the due date means 7 WORKING days, ie midweek days. Worth careful notes in your diary immediately after your signing, eh?

Whatever the regulations state, I was once told that the clock starts to run from the most recent entry to the Kingdom. I had a reporting day in my diary which I kept and was told I was early! Maybe we could ask for official clarification on this point

By the way, Tom is a very helpful and knowledgeable guy with strong relationships in the immigration department where he can sometimes be found helping out on the other side of the counter. He doesn't ask to see your membership card and I don't know if the CEC makes a contribution towards his salary or whether Alan's company loans him in the interest of networking and PR but if you make use of his advice I'm inclined to think that it's a good reason to support CEC at least by going to the occasional meeting.

Edited August 24, 2008 by Greenside

[Loaded]

Immigration also told me that the 7 day 'period of grace' prior to and after the due date means 7 WORKING days, ie midweek days. Worth careful notes in your diary immediately after your signing, eh?

I've been fined twice and accept I've broken a rule. Both were over 7 actual days but less than 7 working days. IE 1 day late. The first time was a Monday after the K's 60th centenary weekend celebrations. I explained that I didn't think the office would have been open at all over the weekend. She said it was, even on the Sunday. I've since checked personally whether they are open Sunday a couple of times and have just found a closed office each time. She lied to me.

When you overstay, you don't have a visa but can be in the country for 3 days illegally and still pay a lower fine than if you have a valid visa but sign-in just 1 day past the grace period. Seems a stupid rule. That's my problem and would appreciate someone asking questions about this as I won't be attending the meeting due to work committments.

Edited August 24, 2008 by Loaded

[Loaded]

My questions:

When you forget to sign in and you're 1 day over the grace period, you're fined 2,000THB

...

Scrap that question, perhaps.

It wasn't a question. You will (should) notice the 'when' is being used as a relative pronoun, not a question word. It's giving background to my 2 questions. Questions were indicated by a 1) or 2) and ended with a question mark Maestro.

Besides this, unless you are responsible for asking the questions, please don't put yourself up as some sort of censor of my concerns. Thank you.

Edited August 24, 2008 by Loaded