Be Careful With Atms At Paragon

[girlx]

i had a weird incident the other day at an ATM on the ground floor of Paragon. it was the turquoise and blue one in the long line of them- Krungthai Bank i think. i got money out but then it didn't give me my card back, the screen just went blank. i waited a few mins and then walked over to the info desk and asked them what i should do. i could still see the ATM and no one went near it. a security guard walked back to the ATM with me, and after a minute it spit my card back out and the screen went back to normal. it took about 8 minutes total for it to come back out. the guard just shrugged and i left, but i thought that was very weird.

today i got a call from my bank that someone was trying to charge over $4000 worth of fraudulent travel reservations from china on my card. this incident was the only time my card was ever out of my possession in the past couple of weeks.

the only thing i can figure was the ATM was somehow rigged to copy my card?

[madjbs]

Very unlikely to have originated from a paragon ATM. More likely a shop you used the card in recorded the details when you bought something, or you bought something off a compromised internet site. It could have been copied months ago and only recently fallen into the wrong hands.

[hamishgillan]

I have noticed that the ATMs in Paragon are always online for withdrawals.

I mean you can always take money out, (if u have it).

Unlike ATMs in other areas where you are either lucky or not.

So that may have been something to do with it?

(It's quite funny how when signing for a purchase you are shown the back of your card and they say: write it like this!)

Edited August 26, 2008 by hamishgillan

[thithi]

yeh once my card stuck in the atm at paragon .... but lucky me there is 0 baht in my account

[onethailand]

Strange... must pay more attention. I used one of them the other day as well but it was probably SCB's machine (purple and gold).

[JetsetBkk]

Simple solution, get an "ATM only" card. My recent replacement (because I must've left it in the machine, again ) cost 50 baht. They asked if I wanted a fancy new one - that you can use to buy stuff with - but I didn't want it. Get cash, pay cash.

[kiakaha]

Devices do exists that can be placed over the ATM machines card reader insertion slot that blend in so well with the actual machine you dont know they are even there.

They do not affect the transaction, they just read and store the card magstripes as they get passed through the ATM card reader.Later, the thief will come and remove the device and get all the magstripe data.

Some more sophisticated schemes also employ a small mounted micro camera that can record you entering your PIN.

However, almost 100% unlikely that this would be the case at somewhere like Paragon with the security + ATMs attached to the bank branches + high turnover location therfore machines are often serviced.

This type of fraud is usually resigned to ATM machines in remote/isolated positions.

[Wrong Turn]

i had a weird incident the other day at an ATM on the ground floor of Paragon. it was the turquoise and blue one in the long line of them- Krungthai Bank i think. i got money out but then it didn't give me my card back, the screen just went blank. i waited a few mins and then walked over to the info desk and asked them what i should do. i could still see the ATM and no one went near it. a security guard walked back to the ATM with me, and after a minute it spit my card back out and the screen went back to normal. it took about 8 minutes total for it to come back out. the guard just shrugged and i left, but i thought that was very weird.

today i got a call from my bank that someone was trying to charge over $4000 worth of fraudulent travel reservations from china on my card. this incident was the only time my card was ever out of my possession in the past couple of weeks.

the only thing i can figure was the ATM was somehow rigged to copy my card?

I don't know if someone was rigging your card to copy, but fraud and theft, related to ATMs in LOS seems to exist.

I don't use ATMs. I take out cash withdrawals for a week or two, and hide the rest of the money at home.

To each their own, of course.

[girlx]

More likely a shop you used the card in recorded the details when you bought something, or you bought something off a compromised internet site.

nope, i never use it except to withdraw cash from an ATM about once every 2 weeks (it's my American card). it had to be something related to an ATM.

[PoorSucker]

Your card has been skimmed in a ATM.

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/atm/20021004a.asp

[bkkjames]

yeh once my card stuck in the atm at paragon .... but lucky me there is 0 baht in my account

I will give you 300 baht for your snoopy

[waveydavey]

I usually try and use ATMs located inside banks. Less likely to have a scanner fitted and also easier to get your card back if the machine swallows it.

[kiakaha]

More likely a shop you used the card in recorded the details when you bought something, or you bought something off a compromised internet site.

nope, i never use it except to withdraw cash from an ATM about once every 2 weeks (it's my American card). it had to be something related to an ATM.

what precisely do you mean by "never use" it ..do you mean no other purchase transactions , or do you mean you didnt physically hand over your card details (in person/phone or fax/internet) anywhere else at all other than at ATM machines ?

i ask for this clarity in case you used it as a preauth/guarantee for things such as hotels and rental cars. No final transaction is performed, just a "hold" is done on funds , but it still involves using your card and hence an avenue where your card details could be skimmed.

besides paragon, which atm(s) did you use, if you remember ?

[libya 115]

I very much doubt that your ATM experience with a KTB machine was where your card was copied.

Your card has probably been copied by another machine, or maybe your card details have been logged on the internet and stolen so someone is using your card for goods in China.

Contact your bank, cancel that card and ask for another sent FEDEX.

[girlx]

what precisely do you mean by "never use" it

er, what is so hard to understand about that? i never use it for anything (no online transaction, nothing) other than to withdraw money from an ATM about once every two weeks. usually i just go to the closest ATM.

[JimGant]

nope, i never use it except to withdraw cash from an ATM about once every 2 weeks (it's my American card). it had to be something related to an ATM.

All the more reason, as one poster suggested, to have your bank issue strictly an ATM card -- not an ATM/Debit card. The latter, as you found out, can be troublesome, as it does not require a pin when making purchases, thus more susceptible to fraud. Safer to use a credit card for purchases since fraud won't tap your bank account as can debit fraud.

Some banks can be a real pain, however. SunTrust, for example, automatically replaced my ATM card with their "CheckCard." I had to go thru several layers of bureaucracy to get my strictly ATM card back. Bangkok Bank doesn't give you any hassle about wanting a strictly ATM card, as we replaced our ATM/Debit card after reading some horror stories about debit fraud here in Thailand.

[JetsetBkk]

- Krung Thai 'Classic' ATM Card (50 baht )

The more functionality you get with an ATM card, the more money you can lose if someone skims it/steals it and gets your PIN.

I've lost mine twice recently - both times left it in the machine, I believe - but have lost no money, except for the 50 baht replacement fee, because they were 'ATM only' cards and you need the PIN to get the cash.

A few other points:

- use ATMs in popular, busy, public places, preferably inside/outside a bank

- check the front face and surrounds of the ATM for anything suspicious (fake fascia, camera, etc.)

- don't have a high daily withdrawal limit

[desi]

Here's a question... if an Atm in BKK ate your card... and there wasn't any money in the account... if someone somehow got your card, could they still use it to get money in some way?

[petitechevre]

ALWAYS LOOKS at the card hole.. happened to me at TESCO.. i was about to put my debit card and bam.. i see the hole is kind of weird.. i shrug it off, look at the screen.. it was bank of bangkok but the logo was off.. wasnt the same as always.

Pretty sure there was a card scanner on it and a fake program to save your PIN.. ATM's in thailand have no security... its quite easy to program that on those old crappy machines.

[robbiecia]

Here's a question... if an Atm in BKK ate your card... and there wasn't any money in the account... if someone somehow got your card, could they still use it to get money in some way?

I doubt it...........but if you top up the account i would be careful

[Furbie]

nope, i never use it except to withdraw cash from an ATM about once every 2 weeks (it's my American card). it had to be something related to an ATM.

All the more reason, as one poster suggested, to have your bank issue strictly an ATM card -- not an ATM/Debit card. The latter, as you found out, can be troublesome, as it does not require a pin when making purchases, thus more susceptible to fraud. Safer to use a credit card for purchases since fraud won't tap your bank account as can debit fraud.

Some banks can be a real pain, however. SunTrust, for example, automatically replaced my ATM card with their "CheckCard." I had to go thru several layers of bureaucracy to get my strictly ATM card back. Bangkok Bank doesn't give you any hassle about wanting a strictly ATM card, as we replaced our ATM/Debit card after reading some horror stories about debit fraud here in Thailand.

I would love to go back to a plain ATM card, but I can't seem to find a Thai bank that will offer one that also works overseas. As I travel a lot, it is my only option.

[Hawkup2000]

For the general user: when you reach a ATM pull the card and the keyboard slots quite hard to see if it is real or fake reader. Second, cover when you press your pincode. Thirdly, if the machine takes your card don´t just assume that it is end of business, call your bank and block the card asap. The main reason why bad people do this because they want your card data and then make a copy of it . Atm cards is a 3 track card that can be easily copied with a low cost machine as a MSR-206 device.

Just so you know

[Hawkup2000]

Here's a question... if an Atm in BKK ate your card... and there wasn't any money in the account... if someone somehow got your card, could they still use it to get money in some way?

Yes in some ways. Thats why it is so important to block your card as soon as you know the ATM took it. Needless to say, never let a staff in a restro or other venue walk away with your card with out that you can see what is going on.

[TopDogger]

ALWAYS LOOKS at the card hole.. happened to me at TESCO.. i was about to put my debit card and bam.. i see the hole is kind of weird.. i shrug it off, look at the screen.. it was bank of bangkok but the logo was off.. wasnt the same as always.

Pretty sure there was a card scanner on it and a fake program to save your PIN.. ATM's in thailand have no security... its quite easy to program that on those old crappy machines.

The ATM @ the first money exchange place on the right when you go into Pratunam looks dodgy as <deleted>, or it did about 1 week ago.. The card slot was sort of pushed back so you could actually see into the machine, and this is supposed to be a supervised machine with the banks employees working meters away..

[bendix]

why is it, I wonder, that everything that can go wrong in Thailand to anyone has happened to girlx? She's a walking disaster zone. Every thread talks of scams, ATM fraud, bad neighbours.

In all these disasters, of course, it's noticeable that there is only one common denominator . . .

[sanook2me]

bendix Posted 2008-09-11 09:20:39

why is it, I wonder, that everything that can go wrong in Thailand to anyone has happened to girlx? She's a walking disaster zone. Every thread talks of scams, ATM fraud, bad neighbours.

In all these disasters, of course, it's noticeable that there is only one common denominator . . .

I have just read some of girlx's posts.

killings, rapes, drug abuse, robbing, scamming, been everywhere got the t shirt..

She lives life to the full it would be a blast to be her mate ! what fun to be had....

[Jimjim]

Don't think she can be blamed if her card details were stolen from an ATM. To the untrained eye it's almost impossible to notice the difference, and people are not expecting this to be happening so they don't even look closely at the machine. Why not Paragon? They are some bastion of security? Because of image? Could have been some night security let a friend in put a reader on the machine, oops, accidentally no video for 10 minutes in that area due to the help of someone in the camera room and job done. Not impossible to believe.

Edited January 17, 2009 by Jimjim

[dbrenn]

ATM's in thailand have no security... its quite easy to program that on those old crappy machines.

Not true - ATMs in Thailand use standard security and encryption systems common to ATMs the world over. I have heard of dummy ATM machines that are placed by fraudsters, but not so far in Thailand. They scan the magnetic stripe on your card and record your PIN number as you key it in so that copies of your card can be made later, spitting your card back out and telling you that the network is down. However, the CVV2 number necessary for making Internet transactions is not included on the magnetic stripe of a credit or debit card, so I don't see how this particular case could have led to phony Internet transactions, all of which depend on a card number, card name, expiry date and CVV2 that must be read by someone who has access to the card itself. Was someone hiding inside this machine recording the card details? Or, maybe the machine optically scanned the CVV2 in addition to recording the card number and PIN. Clever.

There were a couple of cases in the western world of dummy ATMs being placed in public places. Not impossible - fake contractors could have installed it, but it would be found out very soon and would cause an uproar and likely press coverage as hoards of disgruntled people complained to the media....

[girlx]

why is it, I wonder, that everything that can go wrong in Thailand to anyone has happened to girlx?

maybe i just have a more interesting life than you do bendix... i remember you saying i had a "victim mentality" before and i had to prove you wrong with a newspaper article... don't make me do it again. your assumptions about me are wrong.

i do think my card was copied from the machine that day. luckily my bank wrote it off as fraud.

[Sabum]

why is it, I wonder, that everything that can go wrong in Thailand to anyone has happened to girlx? She's a walking disaster zone. Every thread talks of scams, ATM fraud, bad neighbours.

In all these disasters, of course, it's noticeable that there is only one common denominator . . .

Youre being a bit of a jerk here, guaranteed she is out and about more than you are and is therefore tapping in to the small percent chance of something bad happening here more often than others. I know because Ive got friends who stay home alot and think Thailand is wonderful and safe, then Ive got friends that like to shop in markets, travel around, visit weird sometimes off the beaten path places, do all kinds of interesting things and they have one crazy thing happen after another, this is THAILAND.