My Initial Post: Need Head's Up On Living/working In Thailand!

[Soutpeel]

Technically, there is no provision in Thai law for a foreigner to work from a home office

I doubt they could have really prosecuted him for it. They gave him no proof that they had anything on him. so if you're afraid of that, then get legal.

Even consulates are just suggesting getting a tourist visa and doing this as they say a lot of people do it and it's not a problem.

Just to touch on a few points

- Yes, but why should there be ? - as it stands the law says if you are working in Thailand as a foreigner you need a W/P, its pretty clear to me what the requirements are, the issue hasnt got anything to do with working from a home office, its to do with having a W/P.

- You are most likely to be correct on this one, but as we all know living in Thailand with respect to the law/police, people are guilty until proven innocent, unlike the countries most people have come from. In Thailand the police can put an arrest warrant on someone based on the word of somebody without evidence or reasonable cause.

- Was the guy in the link shook down by the cops, of course he was, tea money in Thailand is a national sport, was the guy scared of course he was, he knew what he was doing was illegal and got caught, hence the reason the cops could shake him down for cash..

"So, to not get in trouble for doing something illegal he had to do something illegal and the police were doing something illegal by accepting it" This is true, but two wrongs dont make a right.....

- On the consulate/embassy comment - this is pretty easy to resolve, let the embassy/consulate concerned put it in writing that its not a problem, keep this document in your desk draw in your home office and if the police ever show up show them the letter. Of course its not a problem for the consulate or embassy concerned, they dont have to deal with the consequences if something should happen.

Edited September 27, 2008 by Soutpeel

[jfchandler]

To the OP, I explored similar issues a year ago when I first moved here. I didn't need to work, but I wanted to explore the possibilities if I wanted to do consulting in my particular field here in Thailand. So I talked at length with Sunbelt Asia, and we went over all the details of setting up my own Thai company, of which I could be a 100% owner as an American, and what that would involve, as a means of getting both a visa and a work permit.

The bottom line, in the end, was that doing what that involved to work legally here was going to be too expensive and too much hassle for me. It would have involved renting an "office space" because even extra space in my home would not satisfy the Thai law, paying Thai taxes based on a minimum salary under Thai law for an American citizen, paying for accounting services and then audits and filings associated with my company, plus the various fees associated with work permit applications and such. And of course, needing to maintain all that on an ongoing basis (not just one-time start-up costs) in order to maintain the company and visa/work permit status.

In the end as long as those rules stay in place and my potential earnings/amount of time I wanted to devote to working weren't so great, I decided just being "retired" was a more enjoyable way to go. Just to be clear, the work I was envisioning would have been physically here in Thailand, not tele-working as you describe. So I really would have needed to do all that if I wanted to work. If I was just tele-working to the U.S. as in your case, I probably would have followed the path that Jing and others suggest...since it really is outside of Thailand.

As to taxes, if you are tele-working here in Thailand but your business is based in the U.S. and the money is circulating in the U.S., then you would be liable for federal income taxes on that -- just the same as if you were living in the U.S. There is no living abroad tax "exemption" for that kind of income. Likewise, if your company is based/incorporated in some particular U.S. state, then I believe you'd probably also be liable for state income tax in that state.

Where the so-called $80,000 exemption comes into play is if someone is living in Thailand and being legally paid here and thus being taxed in Thailand. In that instance, to avoid double taxation, the first $80,000 or so of your Thailand income abroad is not subject to U.S. taxes. That is my recollection of how that process works.

[Soutpeel]

As to taxes, if you are tele-working here in Thailand but your business is based in the U.S. and the money is circulating in the U.S., then you would be liable for federal income taxes on that -- just the same as if you were living in the U.S. There is no living abroad tax "exemption" for that kind of income. Likewise, if your company is based/incorporated in some particular U.S. state, then I believe you'd probably also be liable for state income tax in that state.

Where the so-called $80,000 exemption comes into play is if someone is living in Thailand and being legally paid here and thus being taxed in Thailand. In that instance, to avoid double taxation, the first $80,000 or so of your Thailand income abroad is not subject to U.S. taxes. That is my recollection of how that process works.

Some very interesting points here as regards taxation, wonder if there are "telemarketers" working in Thailand trying to or are claiming the $ 80K exemption, or other tax exemptions in other countries by reporting they are working in Thailand.. ....if they are... then 1. Working illegally in Thailand and 2. committing tax fraud....

Seems pretty silly to me to be paying tax in a country you are not even living in, obviously taking in to account that US citizens have to file their tax returns where ever they are in the world....

[astral]

I don't understand what all the who-ha is about. I have freinds living here in Thailand on retirement visas who are owners of and soley supported by an American business.

There is a great deal of difference.

There is provision for retirees to obtain a yearly visa,

provided they have a documented income.

As long as the income is certified by your embassy then

no-one really worries about how you get the income.

The OP is only 39 and does not qualify in that way.

That was why I suggested that he get married.

Then he does qualify for a yearly visa, if he and/or his spouse

can show a monthly income of 40K baht.

There is no requirement that this income has to be from Thailand.

Investment income, consultation fees, etc could be the source.

As for working on the computer, who of us does not do that?

No one cares what we are doing.

Unless he sits in an office with a big sign that says "I am working illegally"

the OP will not have problems.

[ubonjoe]

Astral I agree with you 100%

On the previous posts regarding US taxes. I have worked outside the US working for s US company and had my pay put in a US bank. The law allows that and the only stipulation is that you have to out the country for 330 days a year plus a few other little things. By filing paperwork with company they did not even deduct taxes from my pay other than social security. Also the 84,000 is after deductions so you can make more than that and not pay taxes. If you go over you pay tax on the amount over 84,000.

[jfchandler]

Seems pretty silly to me to be paying tax in a country you are not even living in, obviously taking in to account that US citizens have to file their tax returns where ever they are in the world....

Dunno what to say about that... Indeed, U.S. citizens living in Thailand have to file tax returns and pay federal tax on taxable income/earnings etc. from the U.S.

There is some advantage though in that some people may not be responsible for state income taxes while living abroad. I gather different states have different rules about that, and it depends on the particular circumstances of the individual.

[astral]

I am glad the UK has not caught on to the idea of taxing citizens who live overseas.

[ubonjoe]

Seems pretty silly to me to be paying tax in a country you are not even living in, obviously taking in to account that US citizens have to file their tax returns where ever they are in the world....

Dunno what to say about that... Indeed, U.S. citizens living in Thailand have to file tax returns and pay federal tax on taxable income/earnings etc. from the U.S.

There is some advantage though in that some people may not be responsible for state income taxes while living abroad. I gather different states have different rules about that, and it depends on the particular circumstances of the individual.

Not only citizens. A resident also has to file and pay taxes even though they move out of the country unless they go to the trouble to have it revoked.

Thats why when they turned my wife down for a visitors visa when I was working there and only wanted her to come for a couple of weeks I didn't go for a resident visa which they try to push you into.

Grrrr!!! Sore subject.

[RPETER65]

I don't understand what all the who-ha is about. I have freinds living here in Thailand on retirement visas who are owners of and soley supported by an American business.

There is a great deal of difference.

There is provision for retirees to obtain a yearly visa,

provided they have a documented income.

As long as the income is certified by your embassy then

no-one really worries about how you get the income.

The OP is only 39 and does not qualify in that way.

That was why I suggested that he get married.

Then he does qualify for a yearly visa, if he and/or his spouse

can show a monthly income of 40K baht.

There is no requirement that this income has to be from Thailand.

Investment income, consultation fees, etc could be the source.

As for working on the computer, who of us does not do that?

No one cares what we are doing.

Unless he sits in an office with a big sign that says "I am working illegally"

the OP will not have problems.

The point I was making was concerning the business aspect of his question. The type of visa should be quite clear to him, get married go to the nearest Thai embassy or consulate and get a one year visa on the fact he is married to a Thai. I have never been asked to show proof of income and I am on my second one year multiple entry visa, if he would like I can tell him the consulate I use, but not on this forem

[Soutpeel]

I am glad the UK has not caught on to the idea of taxing citizens who live overseas.

Here...Here....but dont say it too loudly as some loonie from Nu-labour might be reading this might think its a good idea...

[Soutpeel]

If he would like I can tell him the consulate I use, but not on this forem

Why ? is it classified information or something...

[Maestro]

At some consulates, but usually not those headed by an honorary consul, some employees consider it below their dignity to deal with visa applications while at other consulates the staff are dedicated to their work and correctly give the visas they are authorised to issue. For this reason it is not only useful but important that members should identify the consulates by name.

--

Maestro

[Soutpeel]

For this reason it is not only useful but important that members should identify the consulates by name.

--

Maestro

I was taking the p*ss, but there is a very vaild reason also...thanks Maestro

[milliedamm]

There are heaps of people with Internet based business that live in Asia!

Because I never engage in anything locally in terms of business then I am not breaking the terms of my tourist visas.

Anyone who is arguing against this is probably jealous.

[astral]

Because I never engage in anything locally in terms of business then I am not breaking the terms of my tourist visas.

I am glad you feel that way.

I hope the Labour Dept agrees if they ever investigate you.

[andyc2006]

he is not depriving anyone in LOS from having a job

No-one has said that he would be. He is depriving the Thai state of tax though, or does that not count as it is not a 'human' issue?

I don't see how that's the case.

If he were physically located anywhere but Thailand and running his business back home, Thailand would receive 0 baht in taxes from that.

If he's physically located in Thailand and running his business back home, he can't be depriving Thailand of taxes, since they can't get less than 0.

Meanwhile, in the latter case, he's paying taxes for everything he buys in Thailand, and paying rent that ends up as income for some Thai, who may actually be paying income taxes.

Seems to me that Thailand has higher tax revenues with him operating his business from Thailand instead of forcing him to operate it elsewhere.

Hard to argue that he's depriving the Thai state of tax revenues, unless you're arguing that if he didn't exist, that his work would be outsourced to a Thai who'd then be taxed (that'll likely happen within a decade or two anyway).

Note: I'm not saying that what he's (considering) doing is legal, or moral. Only that his foreign income is money Thailand could never tax, so him operating the foreign business from Thailand doesn't deprive Thailand of any taxes. If anything, it is a net positive for the Thai economy.