Is There A Law Requring Foreigners To Carry Passport?

[wpcoe]

I know there have been many discussions about whether it's a Good Thing to carry one's passport the entire time while they're in the kingdom. There seem to be two scenarios to consider, and most of the discussion concerns only one:

Scenario A: You are stopped by the BIB and need to show "ID"

Scenario B: You are stopped by (or, for whatever reason, turned over to) the Immigrations Police and need to show your passport

I think scenario A is easily satisfied by a Thai drivers license, or a photocopy of one's passport.

However, I think in scenario B, the Immigrations Police do want to see your passport, entry stamp and TM.6, and see it *now*.

Can anybody quote any law or other resource that specifically spells out the need to carry one's passport at all times while in Thailand?

(I know this has been discussed almost ad nauseum with folks claiming they've never had problems with a photocopy, but were they dealing with the Immigrations Police?)

[Gumballl]

Yes, definitely ad nauseum...

Basically if you are well-to-do, and cash flow is not a problem, you do not need to carry your passport.

If you are poor, perhaps insecure, then by all means carry your passport, unless of course you are prone to loosing things (e.g. a passport).

There is a law in Thailand requiring foreigners to carry a passport (for ID/immigration purposes). What are the chances that you will be stopped by the BIB or immigration? What are the chances that you will be in a car/motorcycle accident? What are the chances you will lose your money to a Thai woman? What are the chances that Thaksin will return to rule over the peasants? Life is full of risks... deal with it in your appropriate manner.

Edited September 14, 2008 by Gumballl

[wpcoe]

There is a law in Thailand requiring foreigners to carry a passport (for ID/immigration purposes).

And, the source of that information, please?

[Jingthing]

There is a law in Thailand requiring foreigners to carry a passport (for ID/immigration purposes).

And, the source of that information, please?

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and-li...ceania/thailand

By law, tourists are expected to carry their passports with them at all times in Thailand. There have been incidents where tourists have been arrested because they were unable to produce their passport.

[wpcoe]

That's nice that the UK government says there's an unspecified law that we need to carry the passport.

How about a Thai government law or regulation that requires a foreigner to carry their passport at all times?

I hate to be so anal, but I'm specifically looking for the Thai law/regulation/police order/etc.

[Tywais]

How about a Thai government law or regulation that requires a foreigner to carry their passport at all times?.

I would be interested in seeing the actual law written out also, preferably in Thai as to prevent any uncertainties in terminology. If it specifically states only ID (photo) then I will copy it and put it in my wallet along with a copy of my passport, my Thai DL and my University photo ID.

BTW: after working here for 15 years, the only time I have carried it is to check into a hotel or if I leave the province or going to Immigration on business. Never been asked for it otherwise.

[mgjackson69]

FWIW, I have had any number of contacts with the Thai police, for various reasons, and have *never* been asked to show my passport.

I carry a photocopy of the name/photo page, current permission to stay stamp, and most recent entry stamp and departure card. This fits handily on one sheet of A4, front and back.

If I am just out and about, my passport stays at home. If I take my "office" (computer bag) with me, then the passport is with me.

[Maestro]

There are laws, respectively clauses in laws, that say what you must do and others that say what you must not do. I am unaware of a Thai law that says a foreigner must carry his passport at all times and I doubt there is such legal requirement.

There is no law that foreigners must travel to Thailand (obvious, but necessary to state in this context) but there is a law – the Immigration Act – that says if a foreigner comes to Thailand he must leave before his permission to stay expires, and this law also states the penalties for overstaying. That’s where the passport enters into the discussion. It is the most readily available document that allows you to prove that you have not overstayed, ie not done what the law says you must not do. It is one of those cases where your are not innocent until proven guilty; it is you who must prove that you are innocent.

--

Maestro

[wpcoe]

I guess it would be difficult to prove the absence of something, such as a lack of a law that requires one to carry their passport, but based on Maestro's probable line of reasoning, would it be adequate to merely *own* such a document (passport with entry stamp and TM.6) versus having to always *carry it* to present immediately on demand? Surely there would be some guidelines or rules that an Immigrations Officer must follow? (Or not?)

Perhaps I'm over-optimistic, but I hold hope that there is *somewhere* an official statement of what action is required by foreigners in Thailand, regarding the ability to prove they are legally in the country and/or not on overstay.

What do the Immigrations Officers require/look for when they raid a construction site and round up illegal migrant workers?

[Mario2008]

Isn't it true that the law states that you have to carry an ID with you all times? That goes for Thais and foreigners. I have seen reports in the newspaper that foreigners were fined for not having their passport with them. Never heard of a Thai being fined for that, but all Thais I know carry an ID with them.

[wpcoe]

Isn't it true that the law states that you have to carry an ID with you all times? That goes for Thais and foreigners. I have seen reports in the newspaper that foreigners were fined for not having their passport with them. Never heard of a Thai being fined for that, but all Thais I know carry an ID with them.

Another good question, and not necessarily the same one as I asked. ID, even for a foreigner, could easily be other forms of identification such as Thai drivers license or photocopy of passport.

Again, I am specifically focused on whether there is any requirement to always carry a passport. I suspect it would be an Immigrations law or policy, but leave the field open. There could well be an additional, separate general requirement for all persons to carry ID.

[Maestro]

My take on this is that on the assumption that there is no legal requirement to carry your passport at all times it makes no difference whether you have your passport with you or a copy of it or neither.

– If the official asking for your identification just wants that, your identification, it is up to him what document other than your passport he will accept.

– If the official wants proof that you are not on overstay, it is up to him if he wants to accept a copy of your passport.

– If the official insists on seeing your passport it is adequate to merely own it but not have it with you, but you will have to go and get it or, if you are temporarily detained, have somebody bring it to you.

If, on the other hand, there is indeed a legal requirement to be able to produce your passport on request at any time and the laws specifies a fine for non-compliance, then you will have to pay this fine.

--

Maestro

[Soutpeel]

There is a law in Thailand requiring foreigners to carry a passport (for ID/immigration purposes).

And, the source of that information, please?

Dont believe the regulation says you have to "carry" a passport, believe it says it must be availible for inspection, not quite the same thing..

[Jingthing]

There is a law in Thailand requiring foreigners to carry a passport (for ID/immigration purposes).

And, the source of that information, please?

Dont believe the regulation says you have to "carry" a passport, believe it says it must be availible for inspection, not quite the same thing..

I kind of is the same thing. If you need to prove you are here legally, unless your passport is either carried by you or very nearby. you are going "downtown".

[wpcoe]

If, on the other hand, there is indeed a legal requirement to be able to produce your passport on request at any time and the laws specifies a fine for non-compliance, then you will have to pay this fine.

Drat. We're back to square one. Is there such a legal requirement?

[zorro1]

Yes, definitely ad nauseum...

Basically if you are well-to-do, and cash flow is not a problem, you do not need to carry your passport.

If you are poor, perhaps insecure, then by all means carry your passport, unless of course you are prone to loosing things (e.g. a passport).

There is a law in Thailand requiring foreigners to carry a passport (for ID/immigration purposes). What are the chances that you will be stopped by the BIB or immigration? What are the chances that you will be in a car/motorcycle accident? What are the chances you will lose your money to a Thai woman?

Probably 97% if you visit Pattaya. The Thai woman bit anywayz

Edited September 14, 2008 by zorro1

[wpcoe]

Dont believe the regulation says you have to "carry" a passport, believe it says it must be availible for inspection, not quite the same thing..

I don't suppose you would know where that regulation is, though? Please?

[Soutpeel]

There is a law in Thailand requiring foreigners to carry a passport (for ID/immigration purposes).

And, the source of that information, please?

Dont believe the regulation says you have to "carry" a passport, believe it says it must be availible for inspection, not quite the same thing..

I kind of is the same thing. If you need to prove you are here legally, unless your passport is either carried by you or very nearby. you are going "downtown".

Of course like a lot of laws in Thailand, depends on who is interpreting the intent, suppose the BiB could interpret it as your passport has to be on your person.

If they really want to be pedantic, even a copy of your P/P, or your Thai DL or even a copy of your WP may not be good enough, depends how much they are trying to hit you up for....

Its the same in a lot of countries, if you get stopped by the BiB they can "detain" you until you can prove who you are...so not unique to Thailand...

[phaethon]

The relevant law is entitled "Sod's Law" - the only time I have ever left my passport behind in a hotel safe was when I went out for breakfast one boxing day morning.

It took two days to find the hotel safe boxes after the tsunami, they had been washed from the reception into the kitchen, get them hauled to the police station and opened with a pick-axe. The cash and passport dried out, though most of the stamps had washed away and the photo page fell apart.

So, now I do carry my passport at all times, but did note that this increases the wear and tear on it. I got some passport-sized waterproof (not just seawater-proof, but perspiration-proof) pouches from Omni-seal and carry it on a lanyard around my neck.

[Maestro]

...Isn't it true that the law states that you have to carry an ID with you all times? ...

Until this moment I have seen no evidence of the existence of such law or corresponding clause in the constitution.

... have seen reports in the newspaper that foreigners were fined for not having their passport with them...

Unfortunately, these news reports did not cite chapter and section of the applicable law. I wonder if the receipt for a fine would show this information, or would it take a court decision to find out?

Honestly, if a law exists it should be easy to find evidence of it. (Bendix, where are you when we need you?)

Here is my challenge: the first member who not later than 2400 hours Bangkok time on 30 September 2008 provides evidence of a currently valid law, ministerial requirement, departmental order, or other legal provision published in the Royal Gazette stating that a foreigner is liable to pay a fine if he does not carry, ie is able to show, his passport at all times during the time he is in Thailand will get the 2008 Maestro award certificate naming him the ThaiVisa member with the greatest ability to ferret out an arcane Thai law, accompanied by a cash bonus of 500 Baht paid into his hand or his bank account. I am inviting wpcoe, the OP of this thread, Tywais and Lite Beer to be the jurors to decide on the winner by majority vote.

--

Maestro

Edited September 14, 2008 by Maestro
Added "currently valid" - Maestro

[wpcoe]

Here is my challenge: the first member who not later than 2400 hours Bangkok time on 30 September 2008 provides evidence of a law, ministerial requirement, departmental order, or other legal provision published in the Royal Gazette stating that a foreigner is liable to pay a fine if he does not carry, ie is able to show, his passport at all times during the time he is in Thailand will get the 2008 Maestro award certificate naming him the ThaiVisa member with the greatest ability to ferret out an arcane Thai law, accompanied by a cash bonus of 500 Baht paid into his hand or his bank account. I am inviting wpcoe, the OP of this thread, Tywais and Lite Beer to be the jurors to decide on the winner by majority vote.

PERFECT!

Thanks, Maestro, that should definitely accomplish my original goal.

BTW, could we restrict the contest as follows: further anecdotal accounts about what has/hasn't happened to you, your friends, and anonymous bar buddies, and/or what you've read in the newspaper or on internet forums, need not be added to this thread. ONLY contributions that would qualify for the Maestro Award need be posted from here on out -- i.e. actual, verifiable, detailed evidence of a legal provision that requires a foreigner to carry their passport at all times while in Thailand. Deal?

[hansnl]

That's nice that the UK government says there's an unspecified law that we need to carry the passport.

How about a Thai government law or regulation that requires a foreigner to carry their passport at all times?

I hate to be so anal, but I'm specifically looking for the Thai law/regulation/police order/etc.

Ofiicially everybody in Thailand aged 16 and older must be able to give proof of his/her identity.

I suppose that is also valid for foreigners.

Thai have their ID-card after 15, and are obliged to carry it, because they must be able to show proof of his/her identity.

I suppose a driving license can do the same for Thai people.

I suppose foreigners have to be able to giove proof of their identity too.

I have a feeling that this is where your passport if for.

However, I have a Dutch ID-card and a passport, and the ID-card is also accepted.

I do have a feeling that the Thai ID-number plays it's part for the Thai officials.

Foreigners having a Thai driving license also have a Thai ID-number.

The ID of foreigners without a Thai ID-Number can only be checked by passport and TM6.

But why make problems for yourself.

Carry the passport, just to stay out of legal or illegal official trouble

[Maestro]

...BTW, could we restrict the contest as follows...

The requirement to be able to show the passport at all times must be a law, etc. published in the Government Gazette. This excludes, of course, bar talk, etc. No law, Ministerial Regulation or other legal requirement takes effect until it is published in the Royal Gazette.

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

How about a Thai government law or regulation that requires a foreigner to carry their passport at all times?

...I'm specifically looking for the Thai law/regulation/police order/etc.

Ofiicially everybody in Thailand aged 16 and older must be able to give proof of his/her identity.

Sorry to say, hansl, but this does not answer the question. We are looking for evidence of a law that requires foreigners, or everybody, to be able to show the passport, or in the case of a Thai national the ID, at all times when requested to do so by a police officer or other government official.

--

Maestro

[astral]

Do you have to knock your head against a brick wall to know that it is hard??????

Just live with the fact that foreigners, like Thais are expected to carry ID.

Most people find it very difficult to understand how we manage in the UK without ID cards.

[Merlin]

I was asked to show my passport once, when the club I was in was raided by police mainly looking for underage girls and yaaba users [and I'm neither of those...]

I did have a friend though, he's a Filipino - he went to Don Muang to meet a friend who was arriving there. The friends plane was delayed or something and so he went to sleep on a bench while waiting. The police came along and woke him up, and unfortunately he didn't have his passport on him. After all, he wasn't going anywhere, he was just waiting to meet someone. They locked him up for three days [over the weekend] before they would let him make a phone call to his boss to get someone to go to his room get his passport and bring it to BKK...

I say carry it at all times.

It's just not worth the hassle.

Edited September 14, 2008 by Merlin

[ZZZ]

From following it seems you can be looked up if you don't have your passport. It's not specified that you need to have it with you at all times but can be interpreted as they can arrest you on the spot if you don't have it.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/do...gration_Act.pdf

Section 58 : Any alien who has no lawful document for entering the Kingdom under Section 12 (1); or

has no Residence Certificate under this Act; and also has no identification in accordance with the Law on

Alien registration, is considered to have entered into the Kingdom in violation to this Act.

Section 59 :The Director General, or the competent official deputized by Director General, shall have the

authority to arrest and suppress any person violating this Act. They shall also have the authority to issue

a subpoena, warrant of arrest or search, make arrest , search , or detain. They shall also have the

authority to conduct inquiry into the offense against the provisions of this Act in the same manner as the

inquiry official under the Criminal Procedure Code.

Section 20 : In the instance where the competent official has detained any alien under the provision of

Section 19 , the competent official shall have grounds to detain said alien in so far as it is necessary ,

under the circumstance but not more than forty – eight hours beginning at the time of this ( detainee’s )

arrival at the office of the competent official. In case of necessary , the period of forty – eight house may

be extended , but not to exceed seven days , and the competent official shall record the reason foe such

extension.

If it necessary to detain any alien longer than the period of time provided in the first paragraph ,

the competent official shall apply to the Court for an order to further detain said alien and Court may order

further detention , if found necessary , not exceeding twelve days at each application. However , if the

Court deems it appropriate , the Court may order that said alien be temporary.

[jackspratt]

From following it seems you can be looked up if you don't have your passport. It's not specified that you need to have it with you at all times but can be interpreted as they can arrest you on the spot if you don't have it.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/do...gration_Act.pdf

Section 58 : Any alien who has no lawful document for entering the Kingdom under Section 12 (1); or

has no Residence Certificate under this Act; and also has no identification in accordance with the Law on

Alien registration, is considered to have entered into the Kingdom in violation to this Act.

Section 59 :The Director General, or the competent official deputized by Director General, shall have the

authority to arrest and suppress any person violating this Act. They shall also have the authority to issue

a subpoena, warrant of arrest or search, make arrest , search , or detain. They shall also have the

authority to conduct inquiry into the offense against the provisions of this Act in the same manner as the

inquiry official under the Criminal Procedure Code.

Section 20 : In the instance where the competent official has detained any alien under the provision of

Section 19 , the competent official shall have grounds to detain said alien in so far as it is necessary ,

under the circumstance but not more than forty – eight hours beginning at the time of this ( detainee’s )

arrival at the office of the competent official. In case of necessary , the period of forty – eight house may

be extended , but not to exceed seven days , and the competent official shall record the reason foe such

extension.

If it necessary to detain any alien longer than the period of time provided in the first paragraph ,

the competent official shall apply to the Court for an order to further detain said alien and Court may order

further detention , if found necessary , not exceeding twelve days at each application. However , if the

Court deems it appropriate , the Court may order that said alien be temporary.

I assume you are not a lawyer, ZZZ.

It seems to me that the sections you quote have very little to do with the question of carrying your passport at all times.

[mgjackson69]

The relevant law is entitled "Sod's Law" - the only time I have ever left my passport behind in a hotel safe was when I went out for breakfast one boxing day morning.

It took two days to find the hotel safe boxes after the tsunami, they had been washed from the reception into the kitchen, get them hauled to the police station and opened with a pick-axe. The cash and passport dried out, though most of the stamps had washed away and the photo page fell apart.

So, now I do carry my passport at all times, but did note that this increases the wear and tear on it. I got some passport-sized waterproof (not just seawater-proof, but perspiration-proof) pouches from Omni-seal and carry it on a lanyard around my neck.

And the odds of this happening again are????

[Maestro]

...It seems to me that the sections you quote have very little to do with the question of carrying your passport at all times.

Right. The race is still on. Just the same, if you look carefully you may find a potential lead in ZZZ’s post. I am hors concours (not taking part in the competition) and therefore will say no more.

--

Maestro