Visas And Residence Permits - Thailand Is One Of The..

[Nongwahyay]

The vast majority of TV members, who apply for a visa of whatever description, are critical of the restrictive manner in which Thailand issues them. They would like longer-term visas and residence permits with fewer controls and a simplification of the rules to be observed, when applying for such. Although I will in the near future be in a similar situation, I would nevertheless argue the case, that Thailand is quite correct to make them quite difficult to obtain - certainly in the case of residence permits - as it keeps out the "riff-raff" that most European countries take in!!!! Just look at the state of countries such as Britain and Germany - they let in refugees and other foreigners with little control if any (despite the "immigration controls" that may exist) and allow their countries to be overrun by poorly or non-skilled people, who place an intolerable burden on their welfare systems. Many nationals of those countries are up in arms, so to speak, at the situation which has now developed. Don´t believe me???? Ask many of the Brits here...... and the man on the street in Germany. They (and I) would send the whole lot back home!! Thailand doesn´t have such a problem, as it very strict on who it lets in. Totally correct in my opinion... any objections to my claim?????

[Jingthing]

This is kind of stupid.Foreigners aren't flocking to Thailand for the welfare system of Thailand. Foreigners are not eligible here for any such benefits. Thailand does have a "problem" with illegal immigration from Burmese and Cambodian workers, but they don't go through the the visa system here anyway.

Edited September 14, 2008 by Jingthing

[WorldwideALOHA]

Agreed - Burden on the EU countries welfare system.

BUT - Thailand has no welfare system that I know of, and CERTAINLY no welfare for foreigners!!!

I don't know of anyone staying in Thailand long term that isn't in some way or another bringing money into the country. The visa process for those that HAVE QUALIFICATIONS and money to invest is nothing short of a pain! The rules are constantly in flux.

Other countries such as those in the EU and the US offer Thais long term visas after the proper application process and they are not forced to do 'visa runs', 90 day check-ups at immigration, etc. There are even low / no interest loans for immigrants that are not available to natural born citizens.

I have always been a firm believer in RECIPROCITY!!!

I also agree with Jingthing. The only immigration problem in Thailand is illegals from Burma and Cambodia. I have been to many a resort in Thailand and ordered my food in Thai only to be met with blank stares...

There will always be 'riff raff', but I would have to argue that the percentage is very low and they usually run out of cash and are sent packing or end up a resident in a nice local jail at the whopping cost of 40 baht a day to the Thai taxpayers vs. the hundreds per day in our countries to house our immigrant criminals. If you ask me, we should bill the home countries of those criminals.

[kmart]

There will always be 'riff raff', but I would have to argue that the percentage is very low and they usually run out of cash and are sent packing or end up a resident in a nice local jail at the whopping cost of 40 baht a day to the Thai taxpayers vs. the hundreds per day in our countries to house our immigrant criminals. If you ask me, we should bill the home countries of those criminals.

The recent steep rise in the cost of Work Permits is allegedly to cover the cost of repatriation of overstayers / people who have gone broke.

[myauq]

Ask many of the Brits here...... and the man on the street in Germany. They (and I) would send the whole lot back home!! Thailand doesn´t have such a problem, as it very strict on who it lets in. Totally correct in my opinion... any objections to my claim?????

'the man on the street' always has the best knowledge, and is most informed about his country's immigration and social security policies.

i wouldn't ask 'the man on the soi' anything, beyond 'ani tao rai'...

[Wrong Turn]

The vast majority of TV members, who apply for a visa of whatever description, are critical of the restrictive manner in which Thailand issues them. They would like longer-term visas and residence permits with fewer controls and a simplification of the rules to be observed, when applying for such. Although I will in the near future be in a similar situation, I would nevertheless argue the case, that Thailand is quite correct to make them quite difficult to obtain - certainly in the case of residence permits - as it keeps out the "riff-raff"....

1. Thailand attracts bottom-feeders by the vary nature of certain things in Thailand. (You folks know what I mean.)

2. The previous unlimited, 30 day visa renewal attracted not only riff-raff, but broke and destitute riff-raff. Just take a bus to Poipet, every 30 days.

Tighten some of the regs is fair.

As for the Retirement O-visa, you want to make sure older folks have the funds to take care of themselves. If someone is in their 60s and has medical problems or cannot take are of themself, and they are broke, it's now a burden on Thailand and a problem for Thailand.

[WorldwideALOHA]

I still don't get it...

How is it a burden for Thailand?

If someone has medical problems I would love to know of a hospital here that will treat you free or even issue treatment first and take payment later...

If you can't take care of yourself here, someone will find the stinking smell in a few weeks and AGAIN, not Thailand's problem - the embassies must repatriate the body, not Thailand.

I don't know for sure, but I would venture to say the same is for deadbeats with no money. I have never heard of the Thai government paying for anyone's plane ticket home! Someone I worked with years ago had a friend get into trouble here and was deported. The guy had no money and therefore was held in an immigration cell for two weeks while a money transfer was arranged to send him home AND charge him a fine for the time spent in the cell.

I agree, the 30 day border visa runs are ridiculous and should be done away with. Tourists can get longer visas no problem and it allows for the proper checks and balances (criminal,etc.)

Tight, yes, unorganized, unbalanced, quagmire - No...

[PhilHarries]

The visa restrictions don't hurt nor keep out the riff raff (as virtually everyone likes to term anyone perceived as lower class than themselves) as many of these people will just overstay. But don't forget some of these people you class as riff raff may actually be wealthier that many on this forum and can afford to be street legal in Thailand, their only crime is not to fit in the TV accepted mold.

The visa restrictions don't hurt nor keep out people who meet the requirements for long term stay such as over fifties and those married to Thai women. The visa requirements are a pain in the proverbial but are easily doable.

The people with the problems are the ones that Thailand should be trying to attract. These are the people in their 30's and 40's who've made their tidy little pile and want to settle in Thailand, maybe invest in some business and just slip into a relaxing lifestyle in a tropical climate. Maybe they will eventually get married but that's not high on the list of priorities.

[jbowman1993]

I still don't get it...

How is it a burden for Thailand?

If someone has medical problems I would love to know of a hospital here that will treat you free or even issue treatment first and take payment later...

If you can't take care of yourself here, someone will find the stinking smell in a few weeks and AGAIN, not Thailand's problem - the embassies must repatriate the body, not Thailand.

I don't know for sure, but I would venture to say the same is for deadbeats with no money. I have never heard of the Thai government paying for anyone's plane ticket home! Someone I worked with years ago had a friend get into trouble here and was deported. The guy had no money and therefore was held in an immigration cell for two weeks while a money transfer was arranged to send him home AND charge him a fine for the time spent in the cell.

I agree, the 30 day border visa runs are ridiculous and should be done away with. Tourists can get longer visas no problem and it allows for the proper checks and balances (criminal,etc.)

Tight, yes, unorganized, unbalanced, quagmire - No...

Ummm, all hospitals treat you first and take payment later, lol. I've never been billed before I've had an exam Maybe that a new USA HMO concept, that hasn't made its way here yet...

[Wrong Turn]

I still don't get it...

How is it a burden for Thailand?

I've witnessed it first-hand.

Someone who is broke or low on funds, gets sick or has a medical issue. They are in the hospital but cannot pay the bills.

You start getting text messages and phone calls to give - not loan - money. There are a few friends that pool together money.

The person is renting an apartment from a local, but cannot pay the rent. They person cannot afford to eat.

The person cannot afford to go back his own country.

It's a burden on a lot of different people.

As people get older, it's good to require them to have some funds in a bank account, as the O-visa requires.

[PhilHarries]

I agree, the 30 day border visa runs are ridiculous and should be done away with. Tourists can get longer visas no problem and it allows for the proper checks and balances (criminal,etc.)

What do you mean by 30 day border visa runs? I assume you mean the 30 day visa exempt stamp certain nationalities get on arrival. These are already restricted to a total of 90 days in a six month period.

So you think just because "goody two shoes you" can get a visa no problem everyone else should do the same and the 30 day exemption rule abolished. What about all the millions of legitimate tourists going to Thailand for a two week holiday? What about people doing a tour of S. E. Asia without a fixed intinerary? Oh, I forgot they fall into the KSR "riff raff" category.

What about my circumstances? Working in central VN and taking two week R&R's either all in Thailand or as a stopover to/from the UK. I'd have to send my passport either to Ha Noi or HCMC for a visa. Okay it is doable but carries a risk of loss of passport and unless I can get a multiple entry visa it needs doing every three months. Oh and for the time I don't have my passport I can't travel anywhere in or out of Viet Nam nor can I withdraw USD from my bank account.

I think Thailand, by allowing the 90 days in six months, has got it about right. It's still attractive to genuine tourists but clamps down on those trying to abuse the system. I agree it's not foolproof, well it can't be can it? You holy joes still see deadbeats all around you, what's the weather like up there sat on your high horse judging the rest of humanity?

[Moonrakers]

I still don't get it...

How is it a burden for Thailand?

If someone has medical problems I would love to know of a hospital here that will treat you free or even issue treatment first and take payment later...

If you can't take care of yourself here, someone will find the stinking smell in a few weeks and AGAIN, not Thailand's problem - the embassies must repatriate the body, not Thailand.

I don't know for sure, but I would venture to say the same is for deadbeats with no money. I have never heard of the Thai government paying for anyone's plane ticket home! Someone I worked with years ago had a friend get into trouble here and was deported. The guy had no money and therefore was held in an immigration cell for two weeks while a money transfer was arranged to send him home AND charge him a fine for the time spent in the cell.

I agree, the 30 day border visa runs are ridiculous and should be done away with. Tourists can get longer visas no problem and it allows for the proper checks and balances (criminal,etc.)

Tight, yes, unorganized, unbalanced, quagmire - No...

Try the Bangkok-Pattaya hospital and the Camillian in Bangkok for starters. I have had personal experience with both of them treating first and asking questions about money later. The Camillian even allowed me to pay in installments.

On the flip side, when my daughter had her first epiliptic seizure the nearest hospital was the Petchavej on Petchabri. We had no idea at the time that she was epileptic and so the seizures could have been caused by anything, yet they refused to lift a finger until my wife went back home to get the 20,000 baht deposit they wanted.

[WorldwideALOHA]

Well, got the hackles up Phil...

I agree, Thailand has it about right with the 90 day stipulation. THAT is exactly what I meant by 30 day border runs being ridiculous.

But--- WHERE DID I GET ON A HIGH HORSE!?!?! Read the posts!!! I used 'quotes' to quote the original poster and show my dismay of the term because it IS a very grey picture of who exactly is undesirable. I referred to the small percentage of people that commit crimes here. Now, I really hope that you don't support them.

When did I start supporting the abolishment of the 30 day visa!?!?!? Talk about putting words in peoples mouths.

Since when did I think that KSR travelers and packers are bad for Thailand?!?!? They are a significant portion of the tourism dollars that support this country and most of us here in one way or another.

The application process for those who wish to get the 2 month tourist visa is a great idea. It allows time for criminal background checks.

AGAIN - it would be great if it were easier for people to get some sort of visa that would allow them to come and go, work here and there, but do so with a streamlined process that doesn't require miles of paperwork, multiple trips to various offices and out of country embassies.

I have never heard of someone dodging a hospital bill before and getting away with it. It is true, you can go to a hospital here for minor treatment and not pay first. However, I believe that you MUST show your passport first when you register. Therefore, I would assume that you would probably be reported for not paying and subsequently be put on a blacklist. Perhaps even on an immigration blacklist. Thus keeping out the Riff-Raff.....

[Nongwahyay]

Let me approach it from a slightly different angle then...................... I maintain that European countries should be just as strict in their requirements towards long-term visitors and in particular towards would-be immigrants. Thailand basically says, Thailand belongs to the Thais and anyone who wants to enter the country may possibly do so BUT only on terms dictated by the Thais. Quite right in my opinion. Britain (where I hail from) and Germany (where I´ve lived for over 30 years) virtually take in anyone who wants to go there. Yes, there are regulations and restrictions............. but look at the hundreds of thousands of immigrants entering these two countries, who are basically not wanted. I get the impression that the interviews go something like this........"Hello Mr and Mrs Asylum Seekers....... you say you are unskilled, penniless and have 7 children. Well, you are just the type of family we are looking for. A total burden on the system for generation to come but you can be sure, we´ll provide you with housing, health care, give special tuition to your children and yourselves (knowing that most of you won´t make any effort at all to integrate) and shove money up your backsides for the next few generations. AND, if you persevere long enough, you can bring in your cousin three times removed together with his wife and 13 children. We are just dying to take care of everyone till the end of their natural days". Raise the taxes a bit more, take a bit more from the unemployed and the pensioners .... and hey presto, it all works out again. I´m not at all racist.............. I just see how weak the Europeans are when it comes to defending their own countries agains rampant immigration................... Germany will end up with a muslim majority in not too many generations... and Britain???? Have a look at the likes of Bradford and Birmingham, to mention but 2 cities. I need say no more!!!! The Thais, with their strict controls, have got it right.................................... In 100 years the make-up of the population of Thailand will be exactly the same as it is today. Anyone dare to make predictions for European countries??????

[dumball]

Let me approach it from a slightly different angle then...................... I maintain that European countries should be just as strict in their requirements towards long-term visitors and in particular towards would-be immigrants. Thailand basically says, Thailand belongs to the Thais and anyone who wants to enter the country may possibly do so BUT only on terms dictated by the Thais. Quite right in my opinion. Britain (where I hail from) and Germany (where I´ve lived for over 30 years) virtually take in anyone who wants to go there. Yes, there are regulations and restrictions............. but look at the hundreds of thousands of immigrants entering these two countries, who are basically not wanted. I get the impression that the interviews go something like this........"Hello Mr and Mrs Asylum Seekers....... you say you are unskilled, penniless and have 7 children. Well, you are just the type of family we are looking for. A total burden on the system for generation to come but you can be sure, we´ll provide you with housing, health care, give special tuition to your children and yourselves (knowing that most of you won´t make any effort at all to integrate) and shove money up your backsides for the next few generations. AND, if you persevere long enough, you can bring in your cousin three times removed together with his wife and 13 children. We are just dying to take care of everyone till the end of their natural days". Raise the taxes a bit more, take a bit more from the unemployed and the pensioners .... and hey presto, it all works out again. I´m not at all racist.............. I just see how weak the Europeans are when it comes to defending their own countries agains rampant immigration................... Germany will end up with a muslim majority in not too many generations... and Britain???? Have a look at the likes of Bradford and Birmingham, to mention but 2 cities. I need say no more!!!! The Thais, with their strict controls, have got it right.................................... In 100 years the make-up of the population of Thailand will be exactly the same as it is today. Anyone dare to make predictions for European countries??????

Cambodians do need a passpoort AND a visa to get into Thailand legally , it also takes a couple of months to achieve both , FACT .

[myauq]

I get the impression that the interviews go something like this........"Hello Mr and Mrs Asylum Seekers....... you say you are unskilled, penniless and have 7 children. Well, you are just the type of family we are looking for. A total burden on the system for generation to come but you can be sure, we´ll provide you with housing, health care, give special tuition to your children and yourselves (knowing that most of you won´t make any effort at all to integrate) and shove money up your backsides for the next few generations. AND, if you persevere long enough, you can bring in your cousin three times removed together with his wife and 13 children. We are just dying to take care of everyone till the end of their natural days". Raise the taxes a bit more, take a bit more from the unemployed and the pensioners .... and hey presto, it all works out again. I´m not at all racist..............

please, tv let's can this one before it gets nastier. the 'i'm not racist' remark should ring some bells to the mods, right?

lets at least use some facts, statistics and/or at least personal experience for this, not 'i get the impression...'

i have worked with refugees back in farangland and they contribute so much to our economy and society. many of them are from this country - thailand. here they risk arrest, repatriation and death. do they deserve that? of course not. they go through a strict review process, and once they have learnt english try their hardest to contribute and give back to the society and people who have allowed them and their children to live in peace and security.

this kind of bully and cowardly attitude makes me sick. this rant has nothing to do with the farang visa application process., it's just a way the op can cloak his extreme views about minority people in his country of residence. look for a nf forum.

[Furbie]

This is kind of stupid.Foreigners aren't flocking to Thailand for the welfare system of Thailand. Foreigners are not eligible here for any such benefits. Thailand does have a "problem" with illegal immigration from Burmese and Cambodian workers, but they don't go through the the visa system here anyway.

Let's be a little clearer. Foreigners working here legally and paying into the SS system do get benefits. I know I do. I think you mean you just can't show up and claim benefits as you can in many Western countries - which is a crock in my book.

[myauq]

This is kind of stupid.Foreigners aren't flocking to Thailand for the welfare system of Thailand. Foreigners are not eligible here for any such benefits. Thailand does have a "problem" with illegal immigration from Burmese and Cambodian workers, but they don't go through the the visa system here anyway.

Let's be a little clearer. Foreigners working here legally and paying into the SS system do get benefits. I know I do. I think you mean you just can't show up and claim benefits as you can in many Western countries - which is a crock in my book.

you can't just turn-up and claim benefits from western countries either. there are systems and checks in place to make sure that the people in question meet particular obligations, like learning the language and particiating in that society by working. sure there are people who try and take advantage of this system, but before we start ridiculing all asylum seekers and refugees, jumping to conclusions based on stuff other people have said, what they think is happening because they don't like people from a said country and/or religious/racial background, lets base the argument on facts or experience, not opinion.

i don't think a somalian or karen refugee will willingly give away 20 years of their life, in a refugee camp or prison, risk their own lives, and arrive in the uk or germany and think sweet, i made it, i can just sit on my arse and make this country give me what i deserve.

if you think that, then please go to somalia or mae sot and have a look at <deleted> is going on there.

[tartempion]

Most of us farangs BRING welfare to Thailand unlike the so-called mostly illegal "economic" refugees who invade Europe.

To above poster myauc:

These illegal refugees when arriving in Belgium are put into "detention centres" (France has a big one near the chunnel where they try to get onto a trin to Britain every night) Whilst awaiting refugee status they get housed and fed. Or they get that status and are fully supported by the tax payers, or they get repatriated, don't have stats.

Try that arriving Bangkok airport and tell immigration you're a refugee, 5555.

[tartempion]

Ummm, all hospitals treat you first and take payment later, lol. I've never been billed before I've had an exam Maybe that a new USA HMO concept, that hasn't made its way here yet...

Rubbish,

We had that penniless ex-soldier from her Majesty in Chumpon.

He drunk and smoked himself to death.

When his time was up we decided to bring him to a private hospital were we all were treated.

Thus he got accepted at the hospital by our farang sponshorship.

But within days no payment was made by the farang community to the hospital and the hospital management got very upset with us farangs.

Day 3 he was thrown out and transported to the nearby government hospital where he died upon arrival.

No one took responsibility for the deceased, not his friends, not his family, not the British embassy.

BTW, he was NOT my friend but I did arrange for his transfer to that private hospital, that was more than what his drinking buddies did for him .

[myauq]

Most of us farangs BRING welfare to Thailand unlike the so-called mostly illegal "economic" refugees who invade Europe.

To above poster myauc:

These illegal refugees when arriving in Belgium are put into "detention centres" (France has a big one near the chunnel where they try to get onto a trin to Britain every night) Whilst awaiting refugee status they get housed and fed. Or they get that status and are fully supported by the tax payers, or they get repatriated, don't have stats.

Try that arriving Bangkok airport and tell immigration you're a refugee, 5555.

i don't know how much you know about this country, but there thousands of refugees living in thailand. they turn-up at the border after their family members have been shot, killed, raped, villages burnt, etc. by the burmese army. if they stayed they would be arrested, raped, killed, tortured, made to build roads and crappy infrastructure, etc. all documented evidence for this kind of stuff mate.

most live in refugee camps on the border, and eat food and live in houses provided for by the un. meanwhile, the ever so nice thai police steal their food, place curfews on them, bribe them for money, do not provide any services or help to them whatsoever; many have lived in these camps for more than 20 years, and only last year did the thai government finally allow them to be resettled to better countries.

they are not a burden on thai citizens, because the refugee system is run by the un, and it is the thai government and small-time officials who are able to exploit both the un and the refugees - i.e. charge foreigners money to see the padaung (long necks), not allowing them to be sent to third countries for resettlement because they are a source of income for the thai police, and steal money and food from them provided by the good will of the united nations.