PAD, Democracy and Labour Unions

[sassienie]

My 18 year old daughter who is half Thai, half English and has duel British & Thai nationality told me last week that where she works, the bosses are heavily into politics and strong supporters of PAD.

My daughter said that her boss tries to coax her into the companies political pursuits.

I told my daughter to tell them that she is British and until the Thai Government gives my father Thai citizenship she does not consider herself as truly Thai enough to support any political party here.

And my advice to foreigners living here is the same, keep your heads down and don’t get involved with Thai internal affairs.

[jumnien]

I think most of the PAD supporters on ThaiVisa (remember, there aren't many) are sincere in their viewpoint. Even amongst Thais PAD aren't all entirely right-wing ultra-nationalists though the leadership certainly is. There is a small but certain extremely naive group that has let their well-warranted concern for Thaksin politics be co-opted into blind hatred by the psychotic, yet crafty, PAD machine.

Of course, there are a few obvious posters on ThaiVisa who are employees of PAD. They are most welcome. In the end, their rabid pro-PAD postings are the most convincing of any posts that PAD and their military junta foundations is, in the words of free-speech activist Supinya, "more dangerous than Thaksin ever was". Perhaps, the most profound understatement in Thai political discourse in decades.

[twschw]

Honestly now, do you think that a Thai political group is going to pay foreigners to post on a forum where the majority of the membership have absolutely no voice in the Thai political arena?

[Jai Dee]

If any member considers that another member is using ThaiVisa as a political stage, please report them to the moderating team.

There is a difference between having a certain political viewpoint and being a paid supporter of a political faction.

The Forum Rules are quite clear on the fact that it is not permitted to either steer, or promote, or solicit people towards external organizations, and any such activity will be considered as spam, and the offending member banned.

ThaiVisa has no political affiliations, and will not allow itself to be used as a political stage.

I urge all members to report any post that you consider violates this mandate.

[Jimjim]

Yes but people can have their opinions.

As to the OP, why would the PAD pay anyone to post on this board? It really wouldn't help them in any way to try to affect views here.

[jumnien]

Some of these naive pro-PAD posters delusionally see themselves as spokes-people, public relations officers, of the PAD movement. A hard nut to crack!

[PhilHarries]

Honestly now, do you think that a Thai political group is going to pay foreigners to post on a forum where the majority of the membership have absolutely no voice in the Thai political arena?

You mean there are no Thai members of ThaiVisa? I know of several but I sincerely doubt if PAD would be paying them to post propaganda on the forum. What has PAD to gain from it? As you say the majority of us here have no direct influence save perhaps over their wives/gf's but even so the numbers are insignificant.

I don't think there is a fifth column on ThaiVisa, maybe there are a few who passionately defend their viewpoint but that is not such a bad thing as long as they do accept other's rights to hold an opposing point of view.

[Plus]

Paranoya thread, says it all.

[jumnien]

It is obvious to anyone that PAD has been trying to influence the farang audience for a long, long time now. Much of their media rubbish and protest signage has been in English and presumably not aimed at the Thai audience. This PAD English language effort has had a very poor reception indeed as it is very difficult to find English language support for PAD in the internatonal community, while international condemnation of PAD has been abundant.

[Scott]

I am not paranoid--they were out to get us!

Being an expat with a fair amount of experience, but limited knowledge of Thai politics, I tried to be careful and balanced in posting on political sites. Nonetheless, it was like trying to be kind to rabid dog. I found them to be less easy to deal with than some ultra-religious folks, who in the end would smile and say they would pray for me!

Some of them hijacked the thread and were very intimidating to anyone with a different view, or even a question.

In the end I gave up following the threads, because I was really interested to find out what PAD believed, thought, what their plan was etc. Not just how evil Thaksin was and how he should be skinned alive, boiled in oil and anyone who had ever walked on the ground he touched should be executed etc. etc. !

[Ricardo]

Interesting thread ... I've certainly considered the possibility of this happening.

What are your feelings regarding those who support the PAD since the early beginning? There is very few of them, but they post a lot, like they don't have to work. Do you believe they are actually employed (paid) to defend PAD / democrat's view ?

Substitute Thaksin/TRT for PAD in the above, and I would suspect that yes, there may be paid-posters here. I'm not one myself, and I fully defend peoples' right to hold whatever opinions they may, or question what they feel to be distortions of the true facts. Flaming others is thankfully against forum-rules, which are well-enforced, IMHO. People correctly get banned for it ... mostly rapidly.

I would question your suggestion at the end of the quote that the PAD & the Democrats have an identical view, the former I would see as a 'ginger-group', the latter is a fairly successful political party, which may well form a future government.

It was much more fun when we all took the mickey out of every Thai government, but the PAD vs. PPP fight has taken a lot of the fun out of it.

Agreed. Humour is a stress-relief mechanism, it's not easy being an expat, living in a different culture or country.

Honestly now, do you think that a Thai political group is going to pay foreigners to post on a forum where the majority of the membership have absolutely no voice in the Thai political arena?

Well Thaksin did say he would hire a US public-relations firm, after the coup, and some journalists might use a forum like this for research, so it might perhaps be worth paying money for that sort of thing. I agree that we're only interested observers, but Yes, I can accept the possibility that some posters might be in it for the money.

[kmart]

It always surprises me that non-Thais will actually jump on the bandwagon of factional bunch of despots of either stripe...

This country has always had rotten governance / policing. Supporting one bunch of despots over another won't change anything; just the positions at the trough of power / public funds. The people a lot of non-Thais are cheering for are always quick to wrap themselves in the flag and blame the very same non-Thais for everything wrong in the country; why the heck does anyone outside the system get so involved with these morons?

[steveromagnino]

My 18 year old daughter who is half Thai, half English and has duel British & Thai nationality told me last week that where she works, the bosses are heavily into politics and strong supporters of PAD.

I told my daughter to tell them that she is British and until the Thai Government gives my father Thai citizenship she does not consider herself as truly Thai enough to support any political party here.

What a pity that your daughter hasn't enough life experience to make up her own mind and needs you to tell her what to say

Seriously, why the F&*k would anyone care what most of the people on this forum think about politics? I don't doubt that some of you are seriously misguided in supporting both the PAD and also PPP but at the end of the day, most of the forum don't have a right to vote, you don't hold high powered jobs and you don't work in the media.

The only possible reason I can think of is that you intend to try to influence your Thai partner to go to the PAD rally/vote PPP or so on, but chances are they don't care that much what you or I think anyhow.

At the end of the day, I suspect the loons on both sides (including the raving Nazi parallel thread that seems to infiltrate threads these days combined with the unbelieveable Sunrise07) are best left ignored, and we accept probably no one is paid, and if they are, I cannot think of anyone on either side that has presented anything the least bit convincing and worthy of pay.

[Moonrakers]

I just stumbled across this:

Need Forum Posters to start immediately

Qualifications:

-must have own pc and internet at home

-flexible

-good written english

-can submit on deadlines

Please attach resume

http://bangkok.craigslist.co.th/wri/840286592.html

Now before everybody starts taking it as proof, lets remember that it could be for any side (PAD/PPP/DAAD), or something completely unrelated.

[pete_r]

What are your feelings regarding those who support the PAD since the early beginning? There is very few of them, but they post a lot, like they don't have to work. Do you believe they are actually employed (paid) to defend PAD / democrat's view ?

I've wondered the same on a couple of occasions. A reason for the PAD to pay posters on an English-language forum could be to give the impression to foreign journalists and news agencies visiting the forum occasionally (i.e. when Thailand politics make it in the international news) that support for the PAD is more widespread than it really is.

As others have pointed out, for the PAD to be trying to influence the farang audience on this forum, or others, wouldn't be worth the effort, given the little say farang have on Thai politics.

[Heng]

Nah, just fanantics. To think that anyone would care enough to pay someone to post opinions posted on some niche web forum is silly.

[klikster]

I just stumbled across this:

Need Forum Posters to start immediately

Qualifications:

-must have own pc and internet at home

-flexible

-good written english

-can submit on deadlines

Please attach resume

http://bangkok.craigslist.co.th/wri/840286592.html

Now before everybody starts taking it as proof, lets remember that it could be for any side (PAD/PPP/DAAD), or something completely unrelated.

It's fairly common for owners of new forums to hire posters as a way of trying to jump-start them (the forum, not the posters). It may have nothing at all to do with politics.

If you're really curious, why not answer the ad?

[h90]

I just stumbled across this:

Need Forum Posters to start immediately

Qualifications:

-must have own pc and internet at home

-flexible

-good written english

-can submit on deadlines

Please attach resume

http://bangkok.craigslist.co.th/wri/840286592.html

Now before everybody starts taking it as proof, lets remember that it could be for any side (PAD/PPP/DAAD), or something completely unrelated.

it is now removed

[h90]

What are your feelings regarding those who support the PAD since the early beginning? There is very few of them, but they post a lot, like they don't have to work. Do you believe they are actually employed (paid) to defend PAD / democrat's view ?

Are they paid? - quite possible: paying folk for political support is common in Thailand - Thaksin used the tactic to devastating effect over the oppisition, so it would come as no suprize to find others copying the tactic.

I saw first a lot PPP poster which have just 5 or so postings. Posting pro a complete corrupt government is strange.

Now I see fresh user who are pro PAD.

So maybe both

[h90]

What are your feelings regarding those who support the PAD since the early beginning? There is very few of them, but they post a lot, like they don't have to work. Do you believe they are actually employed (paid) to defend PAD / democrat's view ?

Interesting that you call them "Enemy"

[Ricardo]

What are your feelings regarding those who support the PAD since the early beginning? There is very few of them, but they post a lot, like they don't have to work. Do you believe they are actually employed (paid) to defend PAD / democrat's view ?

Perhaps they don't have to work anymore, and are retired, maybe someone should run a Poll, to see how many TV-posters are still self-employed or wage-slaves & how many have escaped the rat-race ?

[Pierrot]

What are your feelings regarding those who support the PAD since the early beginning? There is very few of them, but they post a lot, like they don't have to work. Do you believe they are actually employed (paid) to defend PAD / democrat's view ?

Perhaps they don't have to work anymore, and are retired, maybe someone should run a Poll, to see how many TV-posters are still self-employed or wage-slaves & how many have escaped the rat-race ?

People who are still wage-slaves, as you nicely put, are the same who make sure your chair is still rocking

[Pierrot]

I am not paranoid--they were out to get us!

Being an expat with a fair amount of experience, but limited knowledge of Thai politics, I tried to be careful and balanced in posting on political sites. Nonetheless, it was like trying to be kind to rabid dog. I found them to be less easy to deal with than some ultra-religious folks, who in the end would smile and say they would pray for me!

Some of them hijacked the thread and were very intimidating to anyone with a different view, or even a question.

In the end I gave up following the threads, because I was really interested to find out what PAD believed, thought, what their plan was etc. Not just how evil Thaksin was and how he should be skinned alive, boiled in oil and anyone who had ever walked on the ground he touched should be executed etc. etc. !

Your post definitely summarize my feelings and also I believe those of many members that have been silenced by the outrageously aggressive attitude of PAD supporters. What made me believe that these PAD supporters were more than isolated individual is the organized way they felt on anybody who dares opposing their views and lured them in heated debate to eventually get them censored or banned.

I believe that unfortunately a number honest posters were lost in the process.

Edited September 21, 2008 by Pierrot

[Ricardo]

What are your feelings regarding those who support the PAD since the early beginning? There is very few of them, but they post a lot, like they don't have to work. Do you believe they are actually employed (paid) to defend PAD / democrat's view ?

Perhaps they don't have to work anymore, and are retired, maybe someone should run a Poll, to see how many TV-posters are still self-employed or wage-slaves & how many have escaped the rat-race ?

People who are still wage-slaves, as you nicely put, are the same who make sure your chair is still rocking

Fine with me, as long as it's still folk-rocking !

[clausewitz]

From Voranai Vanijaka- an ardent PAD supporter.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/210908_News/21Sep2008_news016.php

it is unarguable that Western democracy has been several centuries in the making and written by numerous conflicts and much bloodshed.

Through much of our history in the 20th century, the overwhelming majority of the Thai population were peasant farmers, the backbone of the Kingdom, who wouldn't know a democracy from a tamagochi. How could they? With little to no education, their primary concerns were simply feeding and clothing their children? Democratic ideals are the luxury of the ''haves'', the ''have nots'' hold graver concerns.

. Human nature: a pile of cash on the table versus some lofty ideal, which would the average Somchai and Somying one generation removed from the rice field . Flocking to the banner of the PAD are simply people who have had enough. allow me to speak for the average Thai person _ rich, middle and poor _ we marched simply because we have had enough. Is this undermining democracy? There is no democracy to undermine. We never had it. Democracy isn't just about going to the poll and voting. They don't hand out democracy at the local mom & pop store, and it isn't on sale at Central or Paragon. One must fight for it.

[Scott]

I read his entire editorial in the Sunday paper. I like his style, but I disagree with him on a number of points. I am not sure why folks are upset that foreigners are expressing an opinion on the matter, since we really don't matter!

I think one of the problems that they have here is that they think they need to reinvent the wheel--and then it will be called a 'Thai-wheel'.

[Denim]

From Voranai Vanijaka- an ardent PAD supporter.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/210908_News/21Sep2008_news016.php

it is unarguable that Western democracy has been several centuries in the making and written by numerous conflicts and much bloodshed.

Through much of our history in the 20th century, the overwhelming majority of the Thai population were peasant farmers, the backbone of the Kingdom, who wouldn't know a democracy from a tamagochi. How could they? With little to no education, their primary concerns were simply feeding and clothing their children? Democratic ideals are the luxury of the ''haves'', the ''have nots'' hold graver concerns.

. Human nature: a pile of cash on the table versus some lofty ideal, which would the average Somchai and Somying one generation removed from the rice field . Flocking to the banner of the PAD are simply people who have had enough. allow me to speak for the average Thai person _ rich, middle and poor _ we marched simply because we have had enough. Is this undermining democracy? There is no democracy to undermine. We never had it. Democracy isn't just about going to the poll and voting. They don't hand out democracy at the local mom & pop store, and it isn't on sale at Central or Paragon. One must fight for it.

Well, if you want to ' fight ' for democracy you can always go along to the DAAD down at Sanam Luang. On the other hand, if you want to fight for the oligarchs and the privalaged few you can go and join the PAD...simple choice.

[permanent_disorder]

that article is Kitsch and a complete joke.

and his main point is, you falang, you no thai, you no understand.

[clausewitz]

that article is Kitsch and a complete joke.

and his main point is, you falang, you no thai, you no understand.

I find it more worrying than you. Talk to the average PAD cultist and these ideas are repeated. PAD members seem to think Thailand has to go down a bloody path of revolution(the writer mentions French revolution ) and then after that it will all be fine- with PAD immortalized as the saviours of the country, and PAD protesters recognized and given positions of power.

Not hard to see why they are so excited. They are in fact given diplomas(ok have to pay 100baht) saying they are official PAD protesters, and promised special status from the PAD stage. Then the AEC members(who bring charges to the surpreme against Thasin) included PAD key members.

[MiG16]

Ive merged 3 threads into 1 so that you get a more comprehensive discussion of the various aspects. Please continue your discussions here.

thanks everyone