2010.....be Prepared

[robbiecia]

With over 70 million baby-boomers in the US

probably another 70 million in Western Europe

Thats 140 million plus people that will be retiring within the next 2 years.

WHERE on earth is that kind of money going to come from to finance their retirement ???????????????????

[LaoPo]

With over 70 million baby-boomers in the US

probably another 70 million in Western Europe

Thats 140 million plus people that will be retiring within the next 2 years.

WHERE on earth is that kind of money going to come from to finance their retirement ???????????????????

what are you talking about.....? There are 6,7 BILLION people out there...they don't count outside the US and EU ? You're talking about 140 million people....what do YOU worry about......about 2.09% of the population...what about the rest ?

http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

LaoPo

[robbiecia]

With over 70 million baby-boomers in the US

probably another 70 million in Western Europe

Thats 140 million plus people that will be retiring within the next 2 years.

WHERE on earth is that kind of money going to come from to finance their retirement ???????????????????

what are you talking about.....? There are 6,7 BILLION people out there...they don't count outside the US and EU ? You're talking about 140 million people....what do YOU worry about......about 2.09% of the population...what about the rest ?

http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

LaoPo

Climb down from your high-horse Laopo!!!!!!!!!!

This topic isnt about 6 billion people.............its about the hundreds of millions of people in the developed world who will be expecting their fat retirement money in 2010

The repercussions of this WILL affect you and i here in LOS...someway or another

[londonthai]

if the pension won't come as big as expected, some of the pensioners will sell their houses in europe/usa and move to some cheaper countries, like thailand, mexico or africa

[Chaimai]

if the pension won't come as big as expected, some of the pensioners will sell their houses in europe/usa and move to some cheaper countries, like thailand, mexico or africa

Tried selling a house in England lately,... or. God forbid.... Spain

I agree that these properties will form part of many people's retirement fund and I, for one, will head for Thailand where my £ goes a lot further.

[Jingthing]

if the pension won't come as big as expected, some of the pensioners will sell their houses in europe/usa and move to some cheaper countries, like thailand, mexico or africa

Well, not exactly.

First of all, not all baby boomers will retire at the same time.

Secondly, the advantages of retiring abroad for economic reasons are largely dependent on having a strong currency. The US dollar now seems headed to no longer be the world reserve currency, for example. US retirees also give up medicare coverage while living abroad, so overall, it could be cheaper to stay home, or perhaps move to a lower cost rural area.

[TBWG]

if the pension won't come as big as expected, some of the pensioners will sell their houses in europe/usa and move to some cheaper countries, like thailand, mexico or africa

Hi

I will be only to pleased to sell them the odd rai of land for their new telaks abode .. can I just ask that they form an orderly queue

TBWG

PS: No need to wait until 2010

[skipvice]

Not worried

I am a Babby Boomer and retired at 62.

let the goom and doomers worry

[LaoPo]

With over 70 million baby-boomers in the US

probably another 70 million in Western Europe

Thats 140 million plus people that will be retiring within the next 2 years.

WHERE on earth is that kind of money going to come from to finance their retirement ???????????????????

what are you talking about.....? There are 6,7 BILLION people out there...they don't count outside the US and EU ? You're talking about 140 million people....what do YOU worry about......about 2.09% of the population...what about the rest ?

http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

LaoPo

Climb down from your high-horse Laopo!!!!!!!!!!

This topic isnt about 6 billion people.............its about the hundreds of millions of people in the developed world who will be expecting their fat retirement money in 2010

The repercussions of this WILL affect you and i here in LOS...someway or another

My high horse....?

You're talking a few privileged people...I'm not.

And, maybe it will affect you but certainly not me; I've taken care of myself a long time ago as will most of the people you talk about, if they were clever that is and NOT sitting and just waiting for a FAT retirement pay out...

NEVER trust anyone but yourself, especially government and/or corporate retirement 'Pots'; if you need them they're not there or empty

LaoPo

[cclub75]

Thats 140 million plus people that will be retiring within the next 2 years.

WHERE on earth is that kind of money going to come from to finance their retirement ???????????????????

I don't agree with Lao Po. It is indeed a burning issue.

Okay, we could speak about the global aging problem (for instance, it will be massive in... China !).

But, we should first focus on EU and UE.

I can answer for France for instance : game over basically. The money will come from... the working population (that will decline).

It's the way our system is designed : we don't have pension fund.

Instead, money is collected from all wages... and then given right away to retirees ! In, out. I know it probably sounds crazy for US people.

So, robbiecia is right : it's going to be a massive problem, because if we can cheat with financial markets, design bailout, be a fascist like Paulson and his friend, well we can't cheat with demography. It's mathematics, no escape, no turn around.

Our french system will explode because :

-we can't ask 1 worker to support 1 retiree, right ?

-we can't increase a lot the "taxes" on wages (already very high)

-we can't decrease a lot the "pension" (many people have small pensions).

-we can increase the duration of the work life, and therefore postpone the retirement age. Right now it's still 60. But even this age is "virtual" (many people are leaving before, thanks to many mechanisms).

-and we can't reduce... the life expectancy of retirees... I'm not sure they would agree.

Okay, we could use a little bit of all those leverages. but it won't be enough.

What else ? Open the doors to a massive immigration ? It has already started. Some people advocate this. But it's of course totally stupid : the immigration Europe gets is -unfortunatly- very low level. I can't see how african people coming right from their villages (I insist this is what happen in France) with no education will be able to fill high added value jobs (that could paid high taxes, in order to pay the pensions for retirees)...

Voila. Since 15 years, the politicians are "working" on the issue. And they don't have solution : because basically the equation can't be solved.

Our US friends have exactly the same problem (maybe worse) :

-they believed foolishely that they would be able to sale their house before to go retirement, and make huge profit : bad luck, real estate was a bubble.

-many people have retirement plan with their companies... many of those companies will go bankrupt...

-other people bought stocks, directly, with again the idiotic belief that "stock market is good for long term investment.... high return" blablabla. Bad luck. This is smoke and mirror.

-and the pension funds will suffer mega losses from the stocks markets

Any individual with common sense should understand that we have a freaking iceberg in front of us...

From a theoretical point of view, I see only 2 solutions :

-a change of paradigm for our economy (we discover tomorrow free and unlimited energy allowing continuous growth)

-a massive... reduction of the aging population.

Edited September 22, 2008 by cclub75

[Naam]

From a theoretical point of view, I see only 2 solutions :

-a change of paradigm for our economy (we discover tomorrow free and unlimited energy allowing continuous growth)

-a massive... reduction of the aging population.

a free rope for each pensioner?

[haybilly]

From a theoretical point of view, I see only 2 solutions :

-a change of paradigm for our economy (we discover tomorrow free and unlimited energy allowing continuous growth)

-a massive... reduction of the aging population.

a free rope for each pensioner?

Can I have one??

[london]

Retirement in the west will be a problem for some, but not for all.

There has been compulsory superannuation in a number of countries and many employees are offered "in house" superannuation by their employers.

So, for those without..or even minor amounts in Superannuation, the governments are expected to step in and give them a pension. This is the major issue.

Certainly for some, home owning retirees, they can get around this shortfall by being offered "reverse" mortgages ...basically leaving nothing for their children....which may or may not be a good thing whilst ensuring the banks get wealthier. However, what it basically means is that after a lifetime of paying off a mortgage, the bank ends up with the home in the end!

mmmm, not a good situation!

Then you have the predominantly Asian nations who are aware of this coming problem and have set up sovereign wealth funds. Some highly capitalised despite the current economic situation.

Anyway, getting back to the original OP in regard to the west:

Some potential retirees just won't be able to retire and will have to work basically until they drop.

Others will not want to stop working. I will probably fall into this category.

Others will fall by the wayside either through illness or incapacity and depending on where they live, will either be able to get a pension from their government, whilst others in other countries, will not. These are a cause of concern.

The fact is that we are an adaptable species. What is set in stone today is not necessarily set in stone tomorrow. There are opportunities for people even in their 60's to set aside funds for their retirement. A little is better than nothing.

Personally, i feel that the vast majority will be able to live if not in the lifestyle that they would have envisaged, at least in some comfort and security in their old age. At least this is what I hope.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

It dosen't seem to me that most Americans are adventuresome enough to retire to a foreign country. Even Mexico but it will attract the most, as it is easy to zip back home from there.

For the most part I think they will sell their home and downsize into something smaller and less expensive and incuring lower taxes, but stay in the US. But to go to any of the distant places most of you take for granted would be terrifying to them. That is why LOS has few Americans compared to europeans.

This is not meant to knock Americans but to point out the US is a large place with a huge variety of places to vacation to, so spending big air fare to take a holiday in another country is not all that appealing.

Most americans that end up retiring overseas have had work experience in another country and are comfortable with the idea of living in a foreign country. I have nothing to support this theory just MHO.

[Jingthing]

Most americans that end up retiring overseas have had work experience in another country and are comfortable with the idea of living in a foreign country. I have nothing to support this theory just MHO.

Most Americans that retire "abroad" retire in Mexico and in my experience most of that group are not experienced expats. Then there are the "ethnic" retirees that are quite common, for example Greek-Americans retiring in Greece. I agree with you compared to Brits, Americans are mostly terrified of living abroad, although there are an estimated 5 million Americans living abroad, including military, but I would guess well under one million are retired abroad.

[Wrong Turn]

With over 70 million baby-boomers in the US

probably another 70 million in Western Europe

Thats 140 million plus people that will be retiring within the next 2 years.

WHERE on earth is that kind of money going to come from to finance their retirement ???????????????????

I think the US and Europe have in a way, similar systems.

In the US, the bottom line is: a lot of boomer will be working longer and delaying retirement because they don't have enough and many will outlive their saving/401k funds.

If....If....the market has a prolonged downturn this will increase the number of boomer that will be working longer.

For many, retirement may only happen when they are too old - physically - to work.

[benjamat]

The problem of the ageing population is indeed a serious issue.

In the uk for example we have had to pay national insurance contributions all our working lives, these payments are supposedly to cover our health and our pensions primarily.

Sadly unlike private pension funds we do not build up a lump of cash that on retirement can be converted into a pension because the government has spent all the money.

In fact we are no better off than a country without any superannuation except that the government has managed to take more money from us and avoid calling it taxation. The problem of the working financing the retired is the same everywhere.

Oh by the way, the baby boom does not just include the immedaiste post war period, it in fact carried on right into the 1960s so it will be a long time before any sort of balance is achieved if ever.

Allready in the uk the government is planning compulsory private pensions, I wonder what they will call the national insurance contributions then, and if they will use the money we have paid for our pensions.

[midas]

Allready in the uk the government is planning compulsory private pensions, I wonder what they will call the national insurance contributions then, and if they will use the money we have paid for our pensions.

I have no faith that government pensions will be secure in the future -of course they will raid the cookie jar

[WilliamJarvis]

With over 70 million baby-boomers in the US

probably another 70 million in Western Europe

Thats 140 million plus people that will be retiring within the next 2 years.

WHERE on earth is that kind of money going to come from to finance their retirement ???????????????????

I would like to say from their savings and investments. Unfortunately too many baby-boomers lived risky [financial] lives on the never never. So they expect me to pay for them to live in retirement - through such lovely things as Medicare and pension payments.

But what pisses me off the most about this that I'm actually putting money away for the day I am 60. However, the government (at least, here in Aus) has decided that I must continue to work beyound the age of 60 [before I can get my hands on my Supa] so as to pay taxes in order to pay for the fuc_kwits who enjoyed life in the 1960s.

Now, where's the justice in that?!

Edited September 25, 2008 by WilliamJarvis

[robbiecia]

With that many baby-boomers wanting their cash at one time....................we're talking about trillions of dollars.......that our governments don't have

[Naam]

But what pisses me off the most about this that I'm actually putting money away for the day I am 60. However, the government (at least, here in Aus) has decided that I must continue to work beyound the age of 60 [before I can get my hands on my Supa] so as to pay taxes in order to pay for the fuc_kwits who enjoyed life in the 1960s.

Now, where's the justice in that?!

your bad luck being born an Aussie

[Naam]

Allready in the uk the government is planning compulsory private pensions, I wonder what they will call the national insurance contributions then, and if they will use the money we have paid for our pensions.

I have no faith that government pensions will be secure in the future -of course they will raid the cookie jar

you can bet your sweet [Midas] butt on it!

[PhilHarries]

From a theoretical point of view, I see only 2 solutions :

-a change of paradigm for our economy (we discover tomorrow free and unlimited energy allowing continuous growth)

-a massive... reduction of the aging population.

a free rope for each pensioner?

Be serious please! Since when has any government given out anything for free?

But if they did you can be sure it would be supplied by the cheapest bidder, probably Chinese, and thus would be inadequate for the average weight of a westerner.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

From a theoretical point of view, I see only 2 solutions :

-a change of paradigm for our economy (we discover tomorrow free and unlimited energy allowing continuous growth)

-a massive... reduction of the aging population.

a free rope for each pensioner?

Be serious please! Since when has any government given out anything for free?

But if they did you can be sure it would be supplied by the cheapest bidder, probably Chinese, and thus would be inadequate for the average weight of a westerner.

If you don't trust the rope you can use Pattaya's popular method of jumping from high places. However 2 or 3 stories gives a questionable results.

[pkrv]

From a theoretical point of view, I see only 2 solutions :

-a change of paradigm for our economy (we discover tomorrow free and unlimited energy allowing continuous growth)

-a massive... reduction of the aging population.

a free rope for each pensioner?

Be serious please! Since when has any government given out anything for free?

But if they did you can be sure it would be supplied by the cheapest bidder, probably Chinese, and thus would be inadequate for the average weight of a westerner.

If you don't trust the rope you can use Pattaya's popular method of jumping from high places. However 2 or 3 stories gives a questionable results.

I love this forum it is hysterical!

[Wrong Turn]

From a theoretical point of view, I see only 2 solutions :

-a change of paradigm for our economy (we discover tomorrow free and unlimited energy allowing continuous growth)

-a massive... reduction of the aging population.

a free rope for each pensioner?

Be serious please! Since when has any government given out anything for free?

But if they did you can be sure it would be supplied by the cheapest bidder, probably Chinese, and thus would be inadequate for the average weight of a westerner.

If you don't trust the rope you can use Pattaya's popular method of jumping from high places. However 2 or 3 stories gives a questionable results.

Seriously, some people are very worried, and some are very down about this.

If the worst scenario happened and people had the retirement plans or "golden years" destroyed, we might see some of this. It's hard to say at this time, however. But I get emails from folks that I very down and worried.

[pkrv]

There is only one way forward and that is to impeach the president of the US (and claw back his personal wealth) - he personally appointed directors of the F and F variety. Does not the buck stop here?

From a theoretical point of view, I see only 2 solutions :

-a change of paradigm for our economy (we discover tomorrow free and unlimited energy allowing continuous growth)

-a massive... reduction of the aging population.

a free rope for each pensioner?

Be serious please! Since when has any government given out anything for free?

But if they did you can be sure it would be supplied by the cheapest bidder, probably Chinese, and thus would be inadequate for the average weight of a westerner.

If you don't trust the rope you can use Pattaya's popular method of jumping from high places. However 2 or 3 stories gives a questionable results.

Seriously, some people are very worried, and some are very down about this.

If the worst scenario happened and people had the retirement plans or "golden years" destroyed, we might see some of this. It's hard to say at this time, however. But I get emails from folks that I very down and worried.

[AlexLah]

And here an E-mail from the guy that at least tells the truth.

Wednesday, September 24, 2008

Dear Friends,

Whenever a Great Bipartisan Consensus is announced, and a compliant media assures everyone that the wondrous actions of our wise leaders are being taken for our own good, you can know with absolute certainty that disaster is about to strike.

The events of the past week are no exception.

The bailout package that is about to be rammed down Congress' throat is not just economically foolish. It is downright sinister. It makes a mockery of our Constitution, which our leaders should never again bother pretending is still in effect. It promises the American people a never-ending nightmare of ever-greater debt liabilities they will have to shoulder. Two weeks ago, financial analyst Jim Rogers said the bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac made America more communist than China! "This is welfare for the rich," he said. "This is socialism for the rich. It's bailing out the financiers, the banks, the Wall Streeters."

That describes the current bailout package to a T. And we're being told it's unavoidable.

The claim that the market caused all this is so staggeringly foolish that only politicians and the media could pretend to believe it. But that has become the conventional wisdom, with the desired result that those responsible for the credit bubble and its predictable consequences - predictable, that is, to those who understand sound, Austrian economics - are being let off the hook. The Federal Reserve System is actually positioning itself as the savior, rather than the culprit, in this mess!

• The Treasury Secretary is authorized to purchase up to $700 billion in mortgage-related assets at any one time. That means $700 billion is only the very beginning of what will hit us.

• Financial institutions are "designated as financial agents of the Government." This is the New Deal to end all New Deals.

• Then there's this: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency." Translation: the Secretary can buy up whatever junk debt he wants to, burden the American people with it, and be subject to no one in the process.

There goes your country.

Even some so-called free-market economists are calling all this "sadly necessary." Sad, yes. Necessary? Don't make me laugh.

Our one-party system is complicit in yet another crime against the American people. The two major party candidates for president themselves initially indicated their strong support for bailouts of this kind - another example of the big choice we're supposedly presented with this November: yes or yes. Now, with a backlash brewing, they're not quite sure what their views are. A sad display, really.

Although the present bailout package is almost certainly not the end of the political atrocities we'll witness in connection with the crisis, time is short. Congress may vote as soon as tomorrow. With a Rasmussen poll finding support for the bailout at an anemic seven percent, some members of Congress are afraid to vote for it. Call them! Let them hear from you! Tell them you will never vote for anyone who supports this atrocity.

The issue boils down to this: do we care about freedom? Do we care about responsibility and accountability? Do we care that our government and media have been bought and paid for? Do we care that average Americans are about to be looted in order to subsidize the fattest of cats on Wall Street and in government? Do we care?

When the chips are down, will we stand up and fight, even if it means standing up against every stripe of fashionable opinion in politics and the media?

Times like these have a way of telling us what kind of a people we are, and what kind of country we shall be.

In liberty,

Ron Paul

[AlexLah]

And did I not say it?

Look here another quote:

Not being explained to the American people is that AIG, the world’s largest player in the $45 trillion derivatives market, during the past two weeks had bet heavily on the world markets against the damage from Hurricane Ike exceeding $2 billion in property damage, lost oil and gasoline production, lost wages and payments to companies forced to close, etc., that it is obligated to pay, but which the actual damages are now being estimated will exceed $1 trillion as the damages throughout the United States are finally tallied.

Such a calamitous action by AIG has basically shattered the western economic system, as reported by The Australian Business News Service in their article entitled, “Global banks brace for derivative blow-up,” which says:

”So here we are on the morning of D-Day. The world's major counterparties on the $US455 trillion derivatives market go into technical default and no one is sure what is going to happen.”

Oh oh oh, what a wonderfull world...........................

[Naam]

From a theoretical point of view, I see only 2 solutions :

-a change of paradigm for our economy (we discover tomorrow free and unlimited energy allowing continuous growth)

-a massive... reduction of the aging population.

a free rope for each pensioner?

Be serious please! Since when has any government given out anything for free?

But if they did you can be sure it would be supplied by the cheapest bidder, probably Chinese, and thus would be inadequate for the average weight of a westerner.

If you don't trust the rope you can use Pattaya's popular method of jumping from high places. However 2 or 3 stories gives a questionable results.

it's quite cheap to built in each country a certain number of "bungee jumping structures". pensioners climb up and have the choice:

"rope around the neck or no rope at all?"

that would save the younger generations a lot of tax dollars

Edited September 25, 2008 by Naam