Lets Bail Out The Poor Financiers

[benjamat]

I wonder if you are as concerned as I am about what is going on in the financial circles at this time.

Banks around the world, (not just USA) are in the process of giving multi billions of dollars, pounds, marks etc to support banks and finance houses that have effectively bankrupted themselves through reckless greed.

I am from uk and it infuriates me to see politicians blaming the global credit crunch for all these issues. We elect them to oversee our interests yet they fail dismally and then have the affrontary to tell us we will have to accept difficult times while WE bail out the bankers.

In the UK, the 5th richest country in the world we had in excess of 10,000 people die last year from hypothermia because they could not afford to heat their homes and we do nothing. The bankers with their obscene salaries and bonuses will not have to worry about food and heating prices.

Gordon Brown and his cronies will already be lining up lucrative directorships in financial institutions for when they are out of office, Im afraid our sick and poor are not going to be given this opportunity.

Always it is the poor and middle classes that pick up the tab for the failings of the powerfull and rich.

I for one would be happy to cheer the fall of the banking institutions as they are now as it will be the only way to get any meaningfull change in attitudes, our politicians are not going to risk their future financial goodies.

[Jockstar]

Would you like to make it Thai related before i close it?

[benjamat]

I see on other posts that the thai government is going to give money to the poorer people to aid in the financial downturn caused directly by the actions of financial houses. While this in terms of volume is primarily the west, these practices have also gone on in the asian markets including thailand which will be affected the same as evryone else.

These actions are likely to affect all interst related personal financial dealings as well as future pension payments. many posters here are europeans and the value of investments and pensions is of great interest.

Sorry, I should have said westerners, and not europeans.

Edited September 26, 2008 by benjamat

[Jockstar]

I see on other posts that the thai government is going to give money to the poorer people to aid in the financial downturn caused directly by the actions of financial houses. While this in terms of volume is primarily the west, these practices have also gone on in the asian markets including thailand which will be affected the same as evryone else.

These actions are likely to affect all interst related personal financial dealings as well as future pension payments. many posters here are europeans and the value of investments and pensions is of great interest.

Sorry, I should have said westerners, and not europeans.

Ok. Thats better.

[JetsetBkk]

I wonder if you are as concerned as I am about what is going on in the financial circles at this time...

Yes, I am. The board of directors of the banks/institutions should be made personally responsible for this mess - send them to jail (gaol), confiscate their homes, pension funds, etc, prohibit them from specific jobs in the future, red-hot poker up the jacksie too.

[benjamat]

I wonder if you are as concerned as I am about what is going on in the financial circles at this time...

Yes, I am. The board of directors of the banks/institutions should be made personally responsible for this mess - send them to jail (gaol), confiscate their homes, pension funds, etc, prohibit them from specific jobs in the future, red-hot poker up the jacksie too.

Yes, agree with most of that.

[slapout]

We might as well get all of their offspring, partners, and anyone they had social and or business contact with in the past 10 years or during their present position (which ever is longer). It seems that people want someone else to make them a living/retirement/vacation home etc. Thus these (investors) get sucked into these get rich investment programs. At least the loan sharks have the forethought to anticipate the deadbeats who abscound with the money, and send people to talk to them or write it off. Like it or not, how many of us, while working for an employer paid back monies lost due to a bad decision or what some people call a f..k up, granted this may not be on the same scale but for lack of education, connections, etc you could have been there. Many potential investors look at all aspects of a group prior to parting with capital that they earned and accumulated during their working life and if not convienced, put it in a shoe box, buy land , precious metal/stones, etc or live life to the fullest and never worry about what they may have had. The old ' blame someone else' is not a trait only found in Asia. To answer you skeptics, yes I have lost my a.. and fixtures when an employer went bankrupt (pension fund) made investments which did not retun what was forecast but never wanted to kill the messenger or lynch the CEO.

[tartempion]

Would you like to make it Thai related before i close it?

It does hit Thailand with toxic assets, AIA and farangs with investments in American and related banks living here no?

Any way, it was a tsunami waiting to happen ( Thailand would never be hit by a tsunami, remember the guy who got fired issuing such a warning)

[PattayaParent]

I for one would be happy to cheer the fall of the banking institutions as they are now

Let's hear you say that when you are 1 year away from retirement and your life savings is in these banking institutions that you advocate the collapse of.

[benjamat]

1 year away from retirement I think I would consider moving any cash away from any risk. Understand the problem with pensions not so easily fixed.

However, at various times if the market is high the value of some pension funds will be high also. The market goes up and down and we have had 10 years of "over" growth so we have been heading for a balancing out for some time. Where possible move your assets but dont expect the general taxpayer to support investments or pensions that have grown more than was a true growth rate.

[bendix]

and here we go again - let's blame someone else for our own fuc_kups.

today's credit crunch is caused by individuals borrowing too much to buy 42 inch tvs and houses they can't afford. It's as simple as that. It;'s not the banks' fault . .it's people can't keep their fuc_king wallets in their pocket.

What happened to the idea of saving for things you want?

[yabaaaa]

Partly right it takes two to tango, but then the banks and other financial institutes started lending 4-5-6-7-8+ times income, I had a friend selling mortgages some of the amounts borrowed on small incomes was incredible, I want to borrow £100000 and I earn £10000 a year.......... no problem!!

Thankfully I owe nothing to anyone.

How many letters have you had from banks offering you thousands? Even when I went into the bank they were asking me about personal loans and I was only there to pay in somethings etc.

[rott]

Partly right it takes two to tango, but then the banks and other financial institutes started lending 4-5-6-7-8+ times income, I had a friend selling mortgages some of the amounts borrowed on small incomes was incredible, I want to borrow £100000 and I earn £10000 a year.......... no problem!!

Thankfully I owe nothing to anyone.

How many letters have you had from banks offering you thousands? Even when I went into the bank they were asking me about personal loans and I was only there to pay in somethings etc.

I know what you mean, about 2 months ago I got a leaflet from the Halifax offering loans of up to £25,000. Not a leaflet in with a Statement but a pure mailshot, well into the credit crunch, advertising loans with money they didn't have.

[Howsitgoin]

and here we go again - let's blame someone else for our own fuc_kups.

today's credit crunch is caused by individuals borrowing too much to buy 42 inch tvs and houses they can't afford. It's as simple as that. It;'s not the banks' fault . .it's people can't keep their fuc_king wallets in their pocket.

What happened to the idea of saving for things you want?

Not exactly.

Our biggest fuc_k up was that we have allowed our elected representatives to take away all regulations that we had protecting the financial system, which in turn created this hyper capitalism mistaken for the "free market economy" that it never was and never will be. Only this made it possible that investment banks could get into the highly speculative business of selling bad loans (how the fuc_k can one possibly sell a bad loan?!), which in turn made it possible to give loans to people who could otherwise have never qualified for one.

And then chain reaction, exposing the whole system for the mess it is - alchemist schemes to make shit appear golden.

Not allowing the 700 Billion package to go through is making this even worse, and will spiral this thing into something similar the world has seen in 1929. Save the fuc_king banks, save us, and if one wants to, punish CEOs or whoever afterward.

If these packages don't go through, banks go broke, and with that all the little moneys we saved, stocks go down, jobs get lost, poverty starts, extremist parties will score points with knee jerk policies...

And don't forget to bring back the checks and balances, so that this won't happen again. Free market never was, never is. It's just a whole lot of BS.

[desertrat]

Don't worry you can get 250% return in 3 years in the UK,(plots of Land near Heathrow)..don't all rush. according to a TV ad here..are the figgering in the inflation

[kmart]

Would you like to make it Thai related before i close it?

Will be coming here very soon, i imagine.

[geriatrickid]

This thread should be put in the humour category. The very people moaning and groaning about the correction in world markets are the ones that benefited from its high returns over the past decade. All those expats living in Thailand that have collected comfortable pensions, dividends, mutual fund income, healthy rents from properties or sold their homes for a nice profit back in their home countries have no grounds to cry about the state of the market.

They wanted double digit returns on investments. They wanted better union and government pensions. They wanted the best price on the home sale. They wanted the best rental returns. Well guess what? The people they used; The government sovereign investment funds, the union pension funds, the investment houses all did what investors wanted them to do and pushed, pulled and pummeled the market to deliver those returns. Those real estate derived revenue streams that made them happy also are a major reason why household debts in the western world went sky high. Ever been to a public company shareholder meeting? There's always some person asking how come the ROI isn't higher. Ever look at the legal filings for public companies? There's always someone litigating because the BOD made a "bad" decision that caused a lower profit.

Had the governments intervened to stop the market pumping a couple years ago when something could have been done, the general public egged on by investor groups, unions, profiteers, financiers and every other person that had a vested interest would have started screaming for the regulators' heads claiming the heavy handed regulators were denying the working man a chance to share in the wealth.

What we are seeing is a market correction. Yes it's harsh and yes people will suffer. Unfortunately that's what greed gets you and in this case, almost everyone shares some responsibility for the mess.

[elkangorito]

This thread should be put in the humour category. The very people moaning and groaning about the correction in world markets are the ones that benefited from its high returns over the past decade. All those expats living in Thailand that have collected comfortable pensions, dividends, mutual fund income, healthy rents from properties or sold their homes for a nice profit back in their home countries have no grounds to cry about the state of the market.

They wanted double digit returns on investments. They wanted better union and government pensions. They wanted the best price on the home sale. They wanted the best rental returns. Well guess what? The people they used; The government sovereign investment funds, the union pension funds, the investment houses all did what investors wanted them to do and pushed, pulled and pummeled the market to deliver those returns. Those real estate derived revenue streams that made them happy also are a major reason why household debts in the western world went sky high. Ever been to a public company shareholder meeting? There's always some person asking how come the ROI isn't higher. Ever look at the legal filings for public companies? There's always someone litigating because the BOD made a "bad" decision that caused a lower profit.

Had the governments intervened to stop the market pumping a couple years ago when something could have been done, the general public egged on by investor groups, unions, profiteers, financiers and every other person that had a vested interest would have started screaming for the regulators' heads claiming the heavy handed regulators were denying the working man a chance to share in the wealth.

What we are seeing is a market correction. Yes it's harsh and yes people will suffer. Unfortunately that's what greed gets you and in this case, almost everyone shares some responsibility for the mess.

Couldn't agree more.

The day will come when more & more "investors" who are sitting on their <deleted>, will not get any increase in profits. Why? Because that day will be when the investors outnumber those who actually do the physical work to make a physical product (a builder or the secretary who does all that paperwork for a house sale).

[OlRedEyes]

Sorry, but 'almost everyone' did not profit in some way from the cash sloshing around the system. Most of the worlds population got no advantage from it. I fact, it probably disadvantaged them.

I agree, things have to change seriously. Don't think they will though, just some tinkering around and maybe some token prosecutions to quieten the masses. Then onto the next bubble.

There should be some form of help to try and stabilize the system, no action will surely drag us all down into the pit, whether we profited from it or not. But then the system must change, forcing cash to become productive. If this is done then poverty may at last begin to be addressed. Unfortunately, too many howls from the rich and, yes, the middle classes (who are now up in arms) will prevent serious change to the system as it will lower ROI.

The big losers are the dying middle class. Their days are numbered. The are so deep in debt and commitments that there is no way out anymore, even if there is no collapse.

[H2oDunc]

I was listening to a guy on coast to coast am the other night. He worked out that the 700 billion dollar bail out worked out to be around 2 million dollars for everyone over the age of 21 in the USA. His idea was to give everybody over the age of 21 2 million dollars instead of the banks. That way they could pay off their mortgages, by a new car and that way kickstart the economy spending the money they have just been given. It sounds like a far better plan than to give all that money to the very people tha fcuked up in the first place with o guarenee its going to save the economy.

[Bagwan]

What happened to the idea of saving for things you want?

You sweet old fashioned person, you. You and me both.

It has been an uphill struggle but my Thai family know full well that if they need something, I will try to provide it. If they want something they can go hang. Furthermore if they ever borrow I will not bail them out.

Papa has already fallen foul. He asked for 20,000 baht to repay a debt that he incurred unknown to the family. My wife, after consulting me, moved all the livestock off the little farm we bought (in her name) and sold the land from under him. The rest of the family have indicated, more than once, their approval. And I thought that I was hard nosed!

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

If you want a little insight to what caused this problem read the attached document. It was originally posted by lannarebirth on another thread.

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/e.../2008/0225.html

[siamamerican]

Always it is the poor and middle classes that pick up the tab for the failings of the powerfull and rich.

In reality the poor and middle class are picking-up a very small portion of the tab. The top 25% income earners pay 80% of the federal income taxes that are being used for the bailout. The bottom 50% pay 3% of the taxes and the poor basically pay 0%.

To me it sure seems the wealthy are bailing out the wealthy.

[PattayaParent]

1 year away from retirement I think I would consider moving any cash away from any risk. Understand the problem with pensions not so easily fixed.

However, at various times if the market is high the value of some pension funds will be high also. The market goes up and down and we have had 10 years of "over" growth so we have been heading for a balancing out for some time. Where possible move your assets but dont expect the general taxpayer to support investments or pensions that have grown more than was a true growth rate.

My matress is too small to stuff USD2 mill into.

Where else would you suggest keeping cash if not in a bank?

[siamamerican]

I wonder if you are as concerned as I am about what is going on in the financial circles at this time...

Yes, I am. The board of directors of the banks/institutions should be made personally responsible for this mess - send them to jail (gaol), confiscate their homes, pension funds, etc, prohibit them from specific jobs in the future, red-hot poker up the jacksie too.

Or for that matter, any greedy investor that invested in these financial corporation's stocks. They should have been happy with the 2% returns deposit accounts were earning, but just like the greedy banks, they were chasing high returns. Don't forget all the greedy homeowners that bought homes to only dispose of them when values dropped.

On second thought, I'll just realize the real estate bubble burst and get on with my life.

[Soutpeel]

1 year away from retirement I think I would consider moving any cash away from any risk. Understand the problem with pensions not so easily fixed.

However, at various times if the market is high the value of some pension funds will be high also. The market goes up and down and we have had 10 years of "over" growth so we have been heading for a balancing out for some time. Where possible move your assets but dont expect the general taxpayer to support investments or pensions that have grown more than was a true growth rate.

My matress is too small to stuff USD2 mill into.

Where else would you suggest keeping cash if not in a bank?

Invest it in Condo's in Pattaya..!!!!, heard there is plenty of money to be made, excellent return on investment, definitely make 40% on the property when you come to sell it....

[siamamerican]

This thread should be put in the humour category. The very people moaning and groaning about the correction in world markets are the ones that benefited from its high returns over the past decade. All those expats living in Thailand that have collected comfortable pensions, dividends, mutual fund income, healthy rents from properties or sold their homes for a nice profit back in their home countries have no grounds to cry about the state of the market.

They wanted double digit returns on investments. They wanted better union and government pensions. They wanted the best price on the home sale. They wanted the best rental returns. Well guess what? The people they used; The government sovereign investment funds, the union pension funds, the investment houses all did what investors wanted them to do and pushed, pulled and pummeled the market to deliver those returns. Those real estate derived revenue streams that made them happy also are a major reason why household debts in the western world went sky high. Ever been to a public company shareholder meeting? There's always some person asking how come the ROI isn't higher. Ever look at the legal filings for public companies? There's always someone litigating because the BOD made a "bad" decision that caused a lower profit.

Had the governments intervened to stop the market pumping a couple years ago when something could have been done, the general public egged on by investor groups, unions, profiteers, financiers and every other person that had a vested interest would have started screaming for the regulators' heads claiming the heavy handed regulators were denying the working man a chance to share in the wealth.

What we are seeing is a market correction. Yes it's harsh and yes people will suffer. Unfortunately that's what greed gets you and in this case, almost everyone shares some responsibility for the mess.

Great post! I'm at a loss understanding the mob mentality. The calls to lynch the bankers without any regard to the rest of societies greed. Never had real issues with greed and even if I did, there is very little anyone can do to restrain human nature. Greed causes growth and growth causes unrestrained optimism. The pendulum eventually swings too far and a correction is needed.

[bonobo]

I was listening to a guy on coast to coast am the other night. He worked out that the 700 billion dollar bail out worked out to be around 2 million dollars for everyone over the age of 21 in the USA. His idea was to give everybody over the age of 21 2 million dollars instead of the banks. That way they could pay off their mortgages, by a new car and that way kickstart the economy spending the money they have just been given. It sounds like a far better plan than to give all that money to the very people tha fcuked up in the first place with o guarenee its going to save the economy.

Try a little over $2,000 per person.

As an American taxpayer, I really don't want to pay even $2,000, but the result of doing nothing is even worse. I own my houses in the US, so I don't have any mortgages, but if I wanted to sell a house, I would have problems as people can't get credit. I do have a sports car for sale with a broker in the US, but people can't get a loan to buy it, so yes, it is affecting me personally.

The Clinton administration implemented regulations which gave the banks much more freedom to act irresponsibly, but the past is past. We need to stop the bleeding, then worry about fixing the system.

[Gumballl]

I was listening to a guy on coast to coast am the other night. He worked out that the 700 billion dollar bail out worked out to be around 2 million dollars for everyone over the age of 21 in the USA. His idea was to give everybody over the age of 21 2 million dollars instead of the banks. That way they could pay off their mortgages, by a new car and that way kickstart the economy spending the money they have just been given. It sounds like a far better plan than to give all that money to the very people tha fcuked up in the first place with o guarenee its going to save the economy.

Try a little over $2,000 per person.

...

I have not checked the "facts" (nor will I) by H2oDunc, but from what I interpreted, it is $700 million divided by the number of people in the US who are over the age of 21; not the total number of people in the US (the last census pegged that around 330 million?). Presumably it is the over-21 that are paying the bulk of the taxes in the US.

[sbk]

700 billion dollars, not million.