American Expats Rally For Presidential Election 2008

[gpdjohn]

Yanks would be better off w/McCain. BO has no substance and is less qualified than McCain's running mate Palin, while BO's own running mate Biden is more qualified then he is to become president. Hopefully you yanks won't fall for the poor choice and choose BO.

I'm going to buy you a beer whenever we meet.

[bunta71]

Wisdom beats experience every time. Case in point...Two weeks ago when McBush could only say," I'm going to fix this economy"; Obama gathered several former Secretaries of State, to give him input on several issues. No one can know everything but a wise man will find the people who do know about particular subjects and garner advice in order to make informed choices.

[gpdjohn]

A general misconception..

Per the UCMJ, McCain was ordered to stay by his COC.

He did not make that decision, it was made for him.

That may be true, although I have done a lot of reading about what happened to him in Vietnam and have never heard about it before, but I still would have been on the plane home and I bet that you would have been too.

Yes sir...

without a doubt.

[Ulysses G.]

[gpdjohn]

A general misconception..

Per the UCMJ, McCain was ordered to stay by his COC.

He did not make that decision, it was made for him.

That may be true, although I have done a lot of reading about what happened to him in Vietnam and have never heard about it before, but I still would have been on the plane home and I bet that you would have been too.

I have also heard that he is considered a traitor because he provided his target info and what ship he flew off of..

Well, I don't know anyone who could endure torture like he and the rest of them did without reaching the breaking point. The UCMJ regarding "Name, Rank and serial number" when a POW has changed since then.

He is a hero in my eyes ( and the senator from my state ) and only can sit back and smile when others are quick to tear him apart.

One tough SOB.

Will he make a good president?

Only history can show if it happends.

[Ulysses G.]

Break my arm and threaten to poke my eye out and I would tell you anything you want to know. I don't blame anyone for spilling the beans under those circumstances.

[bunta71]

A very lively and entertaining morning here today. Must be nap time now....

[StevieH]

i'm impressed with sarah palin's media knowledge by the way. she's unable to name even one newspaper or magazine:

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=xRkWebP2Q0Y

[gpdjohn]

i'm impressed with sarah palin's media knowledge by the way. she's unable to name even one newspaper or magazine:

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=xRkWebP2Q0Y

And without a telepromter...Step 'n Fetch it, Buckwheat wouldn't either...

[OlRedEyes]

Here's a question I cannot find a rational answer for.

If McCain is a do or die hero, that's great. However, in running the (still) most powerful country in the world in an environment where that power is under severe pressure of being lost, and where military means to retain that power will not suffice, is it not much more important that the leader be an intelligent and agile person rather than a great hero of long ago who seems to understand nothing but military power?

Surely the past 8 years of Bush has shown that using military force alone is the path to the end of American power?

Exactly what has being a war hero got to do with being a president who has to be able to handle so much more than military affairs. Surely the primary function of the president should be to advance American interest, security and economy without the need to resort to military intervention. That should be the last resort shouldn't it? Especially with a powerful China and growingly belligerent Russia on the scene? Or do these supporters really believe they could win a war against these two if necessary, without turning it all into Armageddon.

Let's face it, America can only mess around militarily with smaller nations, sometimes. Times have changed.

[StevieH]

Here's a question I cannot find a rational answer for.

If McCain is a do or die hero, that's great. However, in running the (still) most powerful country in the world in an environment where that power is under severe pressure of being lost, and where military means to retain that power will not suffice, is it not much more important that the leader be an intelligent and agile person rather than a great hero of long ago who seems to understand nothing but military power?

Surely the past 8 years of Bush has shown that using military force alone is the path to the end of American power?

Exactly what has being a war hero got to do with being a president who has to be able to handle so much more than military affairs. Surely the primary function of the president should be to advance American interest, security and economy without the need to resort to military intervention. That should be the last resort shouldn't it? Especially with a powerful China and growingly belligerent Russia on the scene? Or do these supporters really believe they could win a war against these two if necessary, without turning it all into Armageddon.

Let's face it, America can only mess around militarily with smaller nations, sometimes. Times have changed.

i absolutely agree, a US president in this day and age should be a statesman and a leader first, if he happens to have served then fair enough. but it shouldn't be a pre-requisite. he has generals and admirals to advise on that side of things.

[bunta71]

"judicious use of force" It seems that trying to put the meaning and importance of this idea into very simple terms that even a republican can understand would go a long way towards improving the lives of so many. Anyone out there have any idea how we could "dumb down" this concept??

[OlRedEyes]

"judicious use of force" It seems that trying to put the meaning and importance of this idea into very simple terms that even a republican can understand would go a long way towards improving the lives of so many. Anyone out there have any idea how we could "dumb down" this concept??

Successful 'judicious use of force' against much smaller opponents doesn't need a president with any military experience at all. The generals' advice would suffice. The much bigger gun of the USA will take care of any lack of strategy, as GWB so graphically demonstrated. Simply hit them over the head with a big hammer. I suspect that will be any military-style president's strategy anyhow. Very little resistance there. And <deleted> the consequences.

Any use of force against other powerful opponents is nothing other than dam_n suicide. No need to have a president with ANY military experience.

[Rasseru]

The position, strength, standing and reputation of the United States have all shrunk over the last decade, but not nearly as much as I would like to see them do. I won't be voting, but for those who will and feel as I do, I would suggest that the McCain/Palin ticket offers more hope of continued American decline than the Obama/Biden ticket.

[OlRedEyes]

The position, strength, standing and reputation of the United States have all shrunk over the last decade, but not nearly as much as I would like to see them do. I won't be voting, but for those who will and feel as I do, I would suggest that the McCain/Palin ticket offers more hope of continued American decline than the Obama/Biden ticket.

Now there's a unique view of how to use your vote. Haven't heard that one before.

[bunta71]

Here ye...I would agree. What Rasseru wrote I would agree with except the part about hoping for further decline in American standing,etc... There are many good things America could help with in the world hence the hope for myself is that a different tack be taken

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I have also heard that he is considered a traitor because he provided his target info and what ship he flew off of..

That's ridiculous. Even the most leftist commies around don't call him a 'traitor'. They'll call him other things though, but I'll get to that.

Well, I don't know anyone who could endure torture like he and the rest of them did without reaching the breaking point.

And honestly that's why pilots aren't told jack about anything, because in war you must assume some will fall into enemy hands.

He is a hero in my eyes ( and the senator from my state ) and only can sit back and smile when others are quick to tear him apart.

Let me try to make you smile then. Dropping bombs on villages in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia makes one a hero? Or only those who get shot down doing it? And about torture, it's not like he was tortured for 5 years straight in captivity.. What would you do if someone who had been dropping bombs on your family would come crashing down from the sky.. Sure the proper rules are not to torture, but the proper rules are also to not bomb civilians which McCain obviously did (because he was ordered to of course, presumably not because he liked it, though I don't think he's ever come out with the slightest bit of hesitation over dropping more bombs on Laos than on Japan in WWII.) Instead he seems to still think that war and bombing is a joking matter, remember the "Bomb bomb bomb Iran" comment? Nice!

[Ulysses G.]

Here's a question I cannot find a rational answer for.

Exactly what has being a war hero got to do with being a president who has to be able to handle so much more than military affairs.

If McCain was not also an intelligent, very respected, long term polititian who has been more than willing to work with both political parties and has accomplished a lot during his many years in office, your question might be more sensible.

I consider these comments from a respected reporter to be a rational answer:

8/6/08

McCain's accomplishments v. Obama's rhetoric

Richard Cohen of the Washington Post, no conservative, asked a leading Democrat, "Just tell me one thing Barack Obama has done that you admire:

"He paused and then said that he admired Obama's speech to the Democratic convention in 2004. I agreed. It was a hel_l of a speech, but it was just a speech."

I like a well-turned phrase as much as anyone, but is this any reason to vote for someone?

Contrast this to John McCain's substantial record of accomplishment, much of which called for a hel_l of a lot of courage, as Cohen notes:

"On the other hand, I continued, I could cite four or five actions -- not speeches -- that John McCain has taken that elicit my admiration, even my awe. First, of course, is his decision as a Vietnam War POW to refuse freedom out of concern that he would be exploited for propaganda purposes. To paraphrase what Kipling said about Gunga Din, John McCain is a better man than most.

"But I would not stop there. I would include campaign finance reform, which infuriated so many in his own party; opposition to earmarks, which won him no friends; his politically imprudent opposition to the Medicare prescription drug bill (Medicare has about $35 trillion in unfunded obligations); and, last but not least, his very early call for additional troops in Iraq. His was a lonely position, virtually suicidal for an all-but-certain presidential candidate, and no help when his campaign nearly expired last summer. In all these cases, McCain stuck to his guns."

http://fatherbrownatleisure.blogspot.com/2...s-v-obamas.html

[gpdjohn]

I have also heard that he is considered a traitor because he provided his target info and what ship he flew off of..

That's ridiculous. Even the most leftist commies around don't call him a 'traitor'. They'll call him other things though, but I'll get to that.

Well, I don't know anyone who could endure torture like he and the rest of them did without reaching the breaking point.

And honestly that's why pilots aren't told jack about anything, because in war you must assume some will fall into enemy hands.

He is a hero in my eyes ( and the senator from my state ) and only can sit back and smile when others are quick to tear him apart.

Let me try to make you smile then. Dropping bombs on villages in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia makes one a hero? Or only those who get shot down doing it? And about torture, it's not like he was tortured for 5 years straight in captivity.. What would you do if someone who had been dropping bombs on your family would come crashing down from the sky.. Sure the proper rules are not to torture, but the proper rules are also to not bomb civilians which McCain obviously did (because he was ordered to of course, presumably not because he liked it, though I don't think he's ever come out with the slightest bit of hesitation over dropping more bombs on Laos than on Japan in WWII.) Instead he seems to still think that war and bombing is a joking matter, remember the "Bomb bomb bomb Iran" comment? Nice!

Oh, you do...

[gpdjohn]

" I will make all your dreams come true "

[OlRedEyes]

Here's a question I cannot find a rational answer for.

Exactly what has being a war hero got to do with being a president who has to be able to handle so much more than military affairs.

If McCain was not also an intelligent, very respected, long term polititian who has been more than willing to work with both political parties and has accomplished a lot during his many years in office, your question might be more sensible.

I consider these comments from a respected reporter to be a rational answer:

8/6/08

McCain's accomplishments v. Obama's rhetoric

Richard Cohen of the Washington Post, no conservative, asked a leading Democrat, "Just tell me one thing Barack Obama has done that you admire:

"He paused and then said that he admired Obama's speech to the Democratic convention in 2004. I agreed. It was a hel_l of a speech, but it was just a speech."

I like a well-turned phrase as much as anyone, but is this any reason to vote for someone?

Contrast this to John McCain's substantial record of accomplishment, much of which called for a hel_l of a lot of courage, as Cohen notes:

"On the other hand, I continued, I could cite four or five actions -- not speeches -- that John McCain has taken that elicit my admiration, even my awe. First, of course, is his decision as a Vietnam War POW to refuse freedom out of concern that he would be exploited for propaganda purposes. To paraphrase what Kipling said about Gunga Din, John McCain is a better man than most.

"But I would not stop there. I would include campaign finance reform, which infuriated so many in his own party; opposition to earmarks, which won him no friends; his politically imprudent opposition to the Medicare prescription drug bill (Medicare has about $35 trillion in unfunded obligations); and, last but not least, his very early call for additional troops in Iraq. His was a lonely position, virtually suicidal for an all-but-certain presidential candidate, and no help when his campaign nearly expired last summer. In all these cases, McCain stuck to his guns."

http://fatherbrownatleisure.blogspot.com/2...s-v-obamas.html

Fair enough. But again the war-hero and military thing looms large. It is irrelevant IMHO.

Is this all that is needed for a leader at a very difficult time? (excluding the war-hero thingy).

Where's the vision. Where's the plan for the future. A leader is not about waiting around to react and vote against things he doesn't like. I never hear him talk about the path to the future..... Surely most Americans agree that the old well-trodden path is not good enough anymore?

Sorry, I find a rational answer in there for a Senator or advisor to the president, not for a president.

Maybe the fact that Vision is the #1 requirement for a leader has been lost from sight. I see absolutely no vision in McCain.

And I have still seen no argument as to how Palin will be able to step in if McCain should die or become unable to function, which surely must be a consideration at his age. Anyone?

Edited October 1, 2008 by OlRedEyes

[koheesti]

Just ask around what most Thais and people from other countries say about who is the best leader and most will pick Obama

One thing Americans agree on is not caring who the average Thai on the street (or Brit, German, Frenchman, etc) thinks would be the best US President. Just as I'm sure those people don't care who Americans (or people in other countries) think would be their best leader.

Just for fun, why do they like Obama better? Most people don't like America and love to watch her stumble. Do they like Obama because he will be good for America? Or because he will help weaken America? If they like Obama because they think he will be better for their own country, maybe they should get their own leaders instead of relying on someone else's.

[PeaceBlondie]

I could never vote for a fighter pilot who became a hero by killing babies. I managed one of those ex-Marine fighter pilots once, who said without being prompted, " I love the sight of napalm." And the right-to-life crowd thinks a baby-killer is God's choice. No.

I am not voting because it will make no difference, but I hope Obama wins.

[OlRedEyes]

Just ask around what most Thais and people from other countries say about who is the best leader and most will pick Obama

One thing Americans agree on is not caring who the average Thai on the street (or Brit, German, Frenchman, etc) thinks would be the best US President. Just as I'm sure those people don't care who Americans (or people in other countries) think would be their best leader.

Just for fun, why do they like Obama better? Most people don't like America and love to watch her stumble. Do they like Obama because he will be good for America? Or because he will help weaken America? If they like Obama because they think he will be better for their own country, maybe they should get their own leaders instead of relying on someone else's.

That's a very paranoid(?) view. Most people take an interest in US politics since GWB messed with their lives. What he did, and what America does, affects us all, sometimes dramatically.

If you want to be respected while you wield so much power, you'd better take a broader view of the world. The above view is part of the reason the US has lost so much support. I assume you are not one of those that care how people around the world perceive you?

If you want us to mind our own business, then stay out of our lives. That means no more military adventures etc. Otherwise you'll have to just live with us poking our noses into what the US has MADE our business.

[Finnish]

Quote : Obama is an intelligent, well-spoken black man who is determined to make the world a better place. He might be a little naive, but his heart is in the right place .

Surely UG you mean Half Rican American ?

Edited October 1, 2008 by Finnish

[Ulysses G.]

Here's a question I cannot find a rational answer for.

Exactly what has being a war hero got to do with being a president who has to be able to handle so much more than military affairs.

If McCain was not also an intelligent, very respected, long term polititian who has been more than willing to work with both political parties and has accomplished a lot during his many years in office, your question might be more sensible.

Fair enough. But again the war-hero and military thing looms large. It is irrelevant IMHO.

Is this all that is needed for a leader at a very difficult time?

You seem to be ignoring the fact that McCain has all of the accomplishments that make a great leader under any circumstances, even if being a war hero was completely disregarded. The fact that he acted as honorably as he did while a Prisoner of War is just iceing on the cake, not the main reason for electing him.

As for Palin, I tend to agree with you. I'm not sure what to think about that.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

US people do the same thing. I think most Americans preferred Sarkozy for France because he is a pro American candidate Americans can relate to, and he promised to and did improve Franco-American relations. I welcome the input of our international friends and their overwhelming support for the next president of the United States, Barack Obama. He will clearly greatly improve America's foreign relations, which was greatly damaged by Bush, and nobody, American or not, can deny that fact. Sad to say, I think many Thais do not like Obama because he is black and he doesn't fit their image of what a farang leader should look like. They have a point. He doesn't. Isn't that great?

Edited October 1, 2008 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Quote : Obama is an intelligent, well-spoken black man who is determined to make the world a better place. He might be a little naive, but his heart is in the right place .

Surely UG you mean Half Rican American ?

To be honest, I could care less what race he is. He seems to be a special human being and he inspires all of us. The fact that he is black just lets everyone know that we want the best leaders possible, no matter their race, color or creed.

[BlackArtemis]

I move back home on the 27/28th, just in time for elections. Dear God I picked a fun time to move back, least I will have missed 98% of the ads.

On a side note, it seems the young crowd loves Obama, I remember in Uni when this was true with gore and Kerry, yet guess who turned out in record low numbers as usual? College aged voters. The idiots either failed to register or failed to realize you are not able to vote in your college town unless you are registered there.

[Jingthing]

I move back home on the 27/28th, just in time for elections. Dear God I picked a fun time to move back, least I will have missed 98% of the ads.

On a side note, it seems the young crowd loves Obama, I remember in Uni when this was true with gore and Kerry, yet guess who turned out in record low numbers as usual? College aged voters. The idiots either failed to register or failed to realize you are not able to vote in your college town unless you are registered there.

Obama has a great organization. The fact that he beat Clinton, who in my view was a much stronger candidate and would have been a much better leader than McCain or Obama for these harsh economic times, tells you how strong. He will get this vote out. They have got that part of it down.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Jingthing