Belgian Media Alleges One Third Of Pattaya Involved In Sex Trade

[Zodiac]

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.p...NEWS=0000007441

[Mobi]

Only one third????

I think the Belgiums have bought some dodgy calculators.

[sotsira]

Only one third????

I would think that Pattaya is the most sexually active city in the world per population.

Can anyone think of another city in the world that could top Pattaya?

I don't think so!

[Kerryd]

Wow. Wonder how much "in-depth" investigative journalism went into this article.

The news specifically alleged that one-third of Pattaya citizens were selling sex, with sex service fees ranging from 5-20 Euros. Such negative publicity, Mr.Ittipol said, was certain to affect the tourism industry, unless counteractive measures were not taken immediately.

5-20 Euros = 250-940 baht. Maybe he's worried that rumours of low prices will affect tourism ? (Isn't that the Thai way, when business is bad, raise prices !)

Hmmmm, "unofficial" population of Pattaya is about 500,000 (but only 95,000 "official" registered citizens). 1/3 of 500,000 equals about 166,000 people selling sex ?!?!??!

Hmmm, 3,000 (approx) beer bars of all sizes, say an average of 10 staff per = 30,000

75+ go-gos (OK, add the boy go-gos and it's what, 85 ?), x (maybe) 30 dancers each = 2,550

A dozen (say 20) or so "massage" parlours (not sure, say 50 staff per ?) = 1,000

So, all the bars, go-gos and massage parlours equal 33,550 people selling sex.

Not bad. That only leaves about 132,450 selling their bodies on Beach Road ! (no wonder it's so crowded there sometimes !).

Even if you doubled my estimates (67,100) that's not even half of a third of the population ! Triple my estimates (100,650) and it's still only 2/3s of the 1/3rd that are allegedly selling sex !

(Keep in mind that would mean the average beer bar would have at least 30 staff that were selling sex, the average go-go would have at least 90 sex sellers, and the average "soapie" would have to have 150 or more !

Then again. maybe the article was using the "official" registered population of Pattaya, in which case, 1/3rd of 96,000 (rounded off) equals 32,000 (wow, pretty close to my first "guestimate" !!)

That means that the other 470,000 people living in Pattaya aren't selling sex (just over 93%).

[Mobi]

Wow. Wonder how much "in-depth" investigative journalism went into this article.

The news specifically alleged that one-third of Pattaya citizens were selling sex, with sex service fees ranging from 5-20 Euros. Such negative publicity, Mr.Ittipol said, was certain to affect the tourism industry, unless counteractive measures were not taken immediately.

5-20 Euros = 250-940 baht. Maybe he's worried that rumours of low prices will affect tourism ? (Isn't that the Thai way, when business is bad, raise prices !)

Hmmmm, "unofficial" population of Pattaya is about 500,000 (but only 95,000 "official" registered citizens). 1/3 of 500,000 equals about 166,000 people selling sex ?!?!??!

Hmmm, 3,000 (approx) beer bars of all sizes, say an average of 10 staff per = 30,000

75+ go-gos (OK, add the boy go-gos and it's what, 85 ?), x (maybe) 30 dancers each = 2,550

A dozen (say 20) or so "massage" parlours (not sure, say 50 staff per ?) = 1,000

So, all the bars, go-gos and massage parlours equal 33,550 people selling sex.

Not bad. That only leaves about 132,450 selling their bodies on Beach Road ! (no wonder it's so crowded there sometimes !).

Even if you doubled my estimates (67,100) that's not even half of a third of the population ! Triple my estimates (100,650) and it's still only 2/3s of the 1/3rd that are allegedly selling sex !

(Keep in mind that would mean the average beer bar would have at least 30 staff that were selling sex, the average go-go would have at least 90 sex sellers, and the average "soapie" would have to have 150 or more !

Then again. maybe the article was using the "official" registered population of Pattaya, in which case, 1/3rd of 96,000 (rounded off) equals 32,000 (wow, pretty close to my first "guestimate" !!)

That means that the other 470,000 people living in Pattaya aren't selling sex (just over 93%).

Well I admit I haven't read the article - just the title of this thread, which says:

'Belgian Media Alleges One Third Of Pattaya Involved In Sex Trade.'

"Involved": in sex trade doesn't mean "selling" sex.

And I would actually imagine that there are very few people in Pattaya who one way or another, directly or indirectly, are not involved in the sex trade.

I doubt if Nong Nooch, or the Million Years Stone park or the Bottle Museum would survive if we didn't have the lovely ladies down town selling their bodies every night.

That's to say nothing of the thousands of bars who sell beer in the hope that a punter will pay a bar fine or two.

IMHO they are all involved in the sex trade.

Pattaya owes its existence to the sex trade.

[Kerryd]

Yes, the title said one thing, but the part of the article I quoted in my post reads "The news specifically alleged that one-third of Pattaya citizens were selling sex"

Of course, there is a big difference between being "involved" in the trade and actually selling sex.

Almost anyone that earns money that comes from a person that is actually selling sex could be considered "involved", from beauty shop owners, to liquor retailers (the ones that sell the booze to the bars that employ the men/women that sell sex).

If a person earns money selling sex, and spends that money (food, taxis, movies, make-up, what ever), are not the people receiving the money "involved" in the trade to a degree ?

They may not be earning a living selling sex themselves, but are earning a living from those that do. If the people selling sex suddenly stopped doing that, all those other people (vendors/clerks/etc) would lose a large hunk of their lively-hood as well. I'd say that is being "involved" (to a degree).

[Robski]

Seems Kerryd has been doing rather a lot of in depth research himself.

Lucky fecker!

[imaneggspurt]

What a load of rubbish, its much higher, they must have only went to walking st !

Edited October 3, 2008 by imaneggspurt

[imaneggspurt]

Only one third????

I would think that Pattaya is the most sexually active city in the world per population.

Can anyone think of another city in the world that could top Pattaya?

I don't think so!

Aint that the truth, ive often thought that around 4am you can see some hotels moving about !

[Basil B]

Our fore bearers did it, if they did not then we would not be here so why make such a big issue of it, obviously a "no news day" in Belgium.

BB

[innovator]

The city should fund a relocation program and send all of these sex trade workers back to their home provinces. Then, they can start over and build a sustainable, healthy, long-term economy based on shopping, tours, sports and other family activities. They can build more schools, clinics, hospitals, businesses and healthy tourism venues and invite more firms to hold seminars, meetings and events.

This will help to clear out the sex tourists and bring in more families. Then, the crime will go down and they can clean up the beach and the city.

We will witness the rebirth of Pattaya in the near future and this is good news for the city and residents. They will transform the current bars with working girls to regular bars, selling drinks and a few discos for dancing. Then, they can retain the alcohol revenue and still offer some form of entertainment like Coyote dancers and cabaret shows. There will always be a few freelancers walking around selling sex, but the vast majority will be cleared out and sent back home, along with many criminals that go hand in hand with the sex trade business.

This is the future.

[plasticpig]

If it was not for the sex trade..

The only businesses that would be here now would be, a fishing fleet, bank, few noodle stools, school and a temple.

BTW Innovator, do you smoke funny fags every day. :D

Edited October 3, 2008 by plasticpig

[gk10002000]

The city should fund a relocation program and send all of these sex trade workers back to their home provinces. Then, they can start over and build a sustainable, healthy, long-term economy based on shopping, tours, sports and other family activities. They can build more schools, clinics, hospitals, businesses and healthy tourism venues and invite more firms to hold seminars, meetings and events.

This will help to clear out the sex tourists and bring in more families. Then, the crime will go down and they can clean up the beach and the city.

We will witness the rebirth of Pattaya in the near future and this is good news for the city and residents. They will transform the current bars with working girls to regular bars, selling drinks and a few discos for dancing. Then, they can retain the alcohol revenue and still offer some form of entertainment like Coyote dancers and cabaret shows. There will always be a few freelancers walking around selling sex, but the vast majority will be cleared out and sent back home, along with many criminals that go hand in hand with the sex trade business.

This is the future.

Well, this may be the future, but it will not prosper. Prices will go up and the city will be like an expensive Western city. It costs a lot of money to travle and vacation in both direct costs and indirect costs such as time lost from work. You would probably be surprised at how unsuccessful pattaya would be if what you suggest would actually come about.

[monty]

A friend scanned the newspaper articles and send them to me, simply the best promotion possible for all the businesses in the trade

There is no such thing as bad publicity!

Only the knee jerk reactions are scary, with major Ittipol indicating that the Pattaya places will get visited and asked that their girls do not dress provocatively and not actively solicit "business".

Will be hard to enforce in you average Walking street gogo

[track61]

"obviously a "no news day" in Belgium.

BB"

Aren't they all?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Seems Kerryd has been doing rather a lot of in depth research himself.

Lucky fecker!

Strictly for scientific research.

[geriatrickid]

From an economic standpoint, the article doesn't make sense. Guys would have to be using the services of sex trade workers several times a day, to make the numbers suggested, viable.

Looking at the age of alot of those Pattaya males, while their hearts may be willing, I don't think the plumbing lets them get lucky that frequently

[harrry]

but the vast majority will be cleared out and sent back home, along with many criminals that go hand in hand with the sex trade business.

This is the future.

[Carib]

I am shocked.... that they only looked at the left side of walking street........

Edited October 4, 2008 by Carib

[Sommaz]

The city should fund a relocation program and send all of these sex trade workers back to their home provinces. Then, they can start over and build a sustainable, healthy, long-term economy based on shopping, tours, sports and other family activities. They can build more schools, clinics, hospitals, businesses and healthy tourism venues and invite more firms to hold seminars, meetings and events.

This will help to clear out the sex tourists and bring in more families. Then, the crime will go down and they can clean up the beach and the city.

We will witness the rebirth of Pattaya in the near future and this is good news for the city and residents. They will transform the current bars with working girls to regular bars, selling drinks and a few discos for dancing. Then, they can retain the alcohol revenue and still offer some form of entertainment like Coyote dancers and cabaret shows. There will always be a few freelancers walking around selling sex, but the vast majority will be cleared out and sent back home, along with many criminals that go hand in hand with the sex trade business.

This is the future.

You seriously need to get deported. Kindly PM me with your passport details.

[MEGALITHIC]

The city should fund a relocation program and send all of these sex trade workers back to their home provinces. Then, they can start over and build a sustainable, healthy, long-term economy based on shopping, tours, sports and other family activities. They can build more schools, clinics, hospitals, businesses and healthy tourism venues and invite more firms to hold seminars, meetings and events.

This will help to clear out the sex tourists and bring in more families. Then, the crime will go down and they can clean up the beach and the city.

We will witness the rebirth of Pattaya in the near future and this is good news for the city and residents. They will transform the current bars with working girls to regular bars, selling drinks and a few discos for dancing. Then, they can retain the alcohol revenue and still offer some form of entertainment like Coyote dancers and cabaret shows. There will always be a few freelancers walking around selling sex, but the vast majority will be cleared out and sent back home, along with many criminals that go hand in hand with the sex trade business.

This is the future.

In never never land. It's got about as much chance of becoming a reality as Thaksin giving away all his money to charity.

Who's going to pay for all those poor rice farmers children to continue their education beyond the 3rd year?

Which sweat shops and factory owners are going to increase wages to beyond the minimum wage?

The type of fantasy world that you envision can only occur when there is a change in the mindset of those that govern this country.

Until then, keep entertaining us with your tales from never never land.

[innovator]

To tell the truth, there are enough Thai customers for the sex trade without the need for farang customers. I read in a local publication, City Life, that

over 450,000 Thai men visit sex workers each day!!! So, the booming sex trade will continue from a Thai/Thai perspective. The ladies may need to accept lower hourly rates in some cases and not be able to move in and take over a house/condo and bank roll of an unknowing Thai customer. But, in the end, they don't really need farang sex tourists here with all of the local Thai men willing to do the business daily.

Plus, if they limit the customer base to Thais only, the girls will simply have to work harder and do more tricks to make a living. Still, they won't be able to take advantage of the buffalo effect by having one of these customers buy a house in their names.

So, it is not a fantasy world, but a real possibility. Whether you like it or not, they don't need farang sex customers.

[zorro1]

"obviously a "no news day" in Belgium.

BB"

Aren't they all?

Not true I had a look at the Belgium post on line and there stated possibly a lack of of pickled herrings due to global warming.

[Chaimai]

To tell the truth, there are enough Thai customers for the sex trade without the need for farang customers. I read in a local publication, City Life, that

over 450,000 Thai men visit sex workers each day!!! So, the booming sex trade will continue from a Thai/Thai perspective.

So, it is not a fantasy world, but a real possibility. Whether you like it or not, they don't need farang sex customers.

Have you been sniffing glue ??

So there was a thriving sex trade in Pattaya BEFORE the Yanks stopped off for a bit of R & R - I don't think so.

[innovator]

Chaimai: Who said anything about sex trade in Pattaya? Who said anything about who started the sex trade? Certainly, Pattaya may be the leader in the sex trade in Thailand, but there are many cities and locations in Thailand with sex workers.

But, the recent research published in a reputable, local magazine suggests that "At the present time, there are over 450,000 Thai customers that visit sex workers every day". So, perhaps the yanks started it???? Maybe??? If you wish to blame the sex trade on the farangs, go ahead. But, nobody can trace back 3,000 years in history and say when sex workers came into action. In the end, it doesn't matter when or who started it.

The present day reality is that Thailand does not need farang sex tourists in order to survive. Also, the sex workers don't need farang customers either. They may prefer farang customers over Thai customers, but they don't need farangs as sex customers to make a living here. Thailand is bigger than just Pattaya too. Take a look around and you will see many sex workers in every Thai town. They may not be as aggressive as the ones in Pattaya and they may not dress like sex workers and solicit folks in the streets either. Nevertheless, they still exist in large numbers all over the country.

I think you are glueless/ clueless in this debate.

Edited October 4, 2008 by innovator

[Mobi]

- Maybe the "clean up" brigade would like to comment on the following , which I found in the current edition of "Pattaya Today":

MUCH has been written in the press about the current poor state of Thailand’s tourism industry and, without doubt, this is the lowest I have ever seen tourist numbers in Pattaya. Many factors have contributed to the situation, not the least of which are high oil prices, world stock market woes and the Thai political turmoil. But there are other long term factors involved. Many readers will know there is an insidious move by meddling moralists to change Pattaya from what it is into something it is not. These myopic do-gooders want to remove the bars and associated adult entertainment and turn Pattaya into a ‘family’ destination. I have a lot of things to say to these people, most of which is unprintable, but my main argument is their grandiose scheme will fail.

As it stands, Pattaya is a unique city which has evolved according to the law of supply and demand. High visitor numbers attest there is a demand for such a place so why would any rational person want to go to the trouble and expense of transforming it into something it is not? Why would families be attracted to Pattaya when there are already hundreds of alternative places up and running? There are thousands of better beaches in Thailand and hundreds of ‘family’ orientated resorts in other parts of the country. If all tourists want out of their holiday is to lounge on a nice beach while their rug-rats play in the sand they can go to places like Phuket or Koh Samui.

And, in the meantime, what would happen to Pattaya? Visitors would quickly realize that sitting on a lesser quality beach is not all it’s cracked up to be. Once they stopped coming, Pattaya’s economy would be left in ruin. My solution is simple; leave Pattaya the way it is and advertise the other existing resorts as family destinations. Keep Pattaya for the tourists who appreciate the kind of nightlife it currently offers. Concentrate law enforcement efforts on cleaning up street crime, muggings and drug-related offences and leave the bars alone.

BTW I have been coming to Pattaya since 1973, when it was little more than a fishing village, with just a few girls plying their trade, mainly to GI's on R & R.

So there is no doubt that the city has become what it is today on the back of the sex trade.

It is also true that the sex trade pervades every corner of this fair land and the farang participation is relatively small as far as numbers are concerned, but very substantial as far as money is concerned.

Most sex workers who service the Thai sex industry dream of meeting a rich farang, but only a fvew do due to the language barriers and their shyness in giving it a go.

Most farangs never realise that kareoke bars and massage parlours are in every town and in many villages in this land because they can't read the signs, which are generally low profile.

Edited October 4, 2008 by Mobi

[NanLaew]

Thailand is bigger than just Pattaya too

.

You think?

I think you are glueless/ clueless in this debate.

Debate? What debate?

You still living on the 'outside' inno?

[innovator]

OK> Not a debate, but an e==dialogue about the sex trade in Thailand.

Sometimes, these posts feel like a debate due to perceived personal attacks on opinions.

Still living in Thailand and have had an opportunity to travel around and see many great places, including the sex trade venues that exist all over the place, primarily for Thai customers. There are many massage places for farangs too, but the prices are higher.

In many of the rural areas, Thais will pay 200 baht for ladies. This price will go up significantly for farangs. So, I am sure that they prefer farangs for the simple fact that they can make more money and possibly be rescued by some buffalo that falls in love with a sex worker.

I am not taking a side in this issue. I don't care what they do with the bars, gogos, ladies....etc....I am simply making some points about the overall sex trade here and the fact that they don't need farangs at all to thrive in this type of business. Farangs are merely the cherry on the top. Sure, many farangs dump a lot of cash into this system, but they don't really need this infusion of cash to make it. Greedy people may need farang customers, but most of these girls can do just fine without farangs.

In fact, in the present day, most of the older ladies end up with the farangs because the Thais prefer the young ladies. So, if anything, the farangs are needed for this niche market of older ladies that are no longer desired by the Thai customers.

[Kerryd]

....which I found in the current edition of "Pattaya Today":

MUCH has been written in the press about the current poor state of Thailand’s tourism industry and, without doubt, this is the lowest I have ever seen tourist numbers in Pattaya. Many factors have contributed to the situation, not the least of which are high oil prices, world stock market woes and the Thai political turmoil. But there are other long term factors involved. Many readers will know there is an insidious move by meddling moralists to change Pattaya from what it is into something it is not. These myopic do-gooders want to remove the bars and associated adult entertainment and turn Pattaya into a ‘family’ destination. I have a lot of things to say to these people, most of which is unprintable, but my main argument is their grandiose scheme will fail.

And, in the meantime, what would happen to Pattaya? Visitors would quickly realize that sitting on a lesser quality beach is not all it’s cracked up to be. Once they stopped coming, Pattaya’s economy would be left in ruin. My solution is simple; leave Pattaya the way it is and advertise the other existing resorts as family destinations. Keep Pattaya for the tourists who appreciate the kind of nightlife it currently offers. Concentrate law enforcement efforts on cleaning up street crime, muggings and drug-related offences and leave the bars alone.

I'd swear that was written by a TV member (not me though, I'm usually too busy gaining a "first-hand" insight into the "alleged" problem) !

Most farangs never realise that kareoke bars and massage parlours are in every town and in many villages in this land because they can't read the signs, which are generally low profile.

True enough. Any time I've gone though I've always been with someone already and couldn't "verify" this information personally (but there's always next time says he, as he starts planning another trip upcountry).

Edited October 4, 2008 by Kerryd

[wileycoyote]

I have no faith in Pattaya City Hall